Jodi Arias Murder Trial - the defense continues it's case in chief-*Weekend* #89

[Elley Mae]

I saw the picture with the tub that is just to the right of the shower,
http://s1309.beta.photobucket.com/user/wasthinking/media/bathroom_zpsceed1eda.png.html

The 12th picture in, the one between nurmi and Martinez, I noticed that Travis' robe is hanging in between the two, shower stall/tub. I wonder if she suddenly disappeared and was standing on the top of the tube and jumped him as he exited the shower. Just trying to figure out how she was able to surprise him.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

To our Websleuth's--

Just wanted to say you have made a very somber subject a little lighter to deal with. We really have some very clever and humorous posters in this group. Even though this is such an horrendous crime and we are watching some pretty disturbing and infuriating testimony, I find myself coming here just to READ the comments....and lighten up a bit.

This group and our Moderators are a pretty great group. Happy to be a part of it--Sleuth ON!

 

[Schuby]

To get back to the actual murder, not AFTER, as he has been, will Samuels go through the "wooden spoon" and Travis' alleged abuse, or will he leave that for La Violette?

I wondered about that too. God I hope not.

 

[Jools68]

Is there a link to these two pictures in question? i really hate seeing the face photo of travis before the attack and the death ones. It hurts too much. I'm in the stab first group, I just want to see if this changes my thoughts.

He could have been in the shower when she stabbed him in the chest, he clutched his chest (getting blood on his hands), stood and used the shower walls to steady himself, then stumbled out of the shower to the sink?

 

[Truth Detector]

Has it come out yet exactly what pictures were deleted and which ones were not. I know that LE were able to retrieve the deleted photos but wondered which ones were not. tia

That's a very good question.

I don't think we'll see a list of deleted vs. non-deleted images or all of the images themselves, although the prosecution certainly has such a list, as LE recovered at least some of the deleted photos.

Other Facts

• 'Deleted' files (digital images are a type of file) are quite easily recovered if they have not been overwritten.
• Travis's SONY H9 apparently had no time lapse capability.
• It did have a 10- and 2-second delay timer feature.
• It offered deletion at the individual and multiple-selected image and entire folder levels.
• It had 31MB of internal memory. Some have speculated otherwise.
• It offered the ability to copy all images from internal memory to "Memory Duo Stick"; i.e., think of this as a Micro SD card with SD adapter.
• It offered the ability to format the memory area.
• It offered the ability to connect camera to any USB device; e.g., computer.

Possibilities/Probabilities

• JA did not delete all images from internal memory and memory stick,
• JA did not know how to delete pics en masse using this camera,
• JA ran out of time in deleting pics individually, ergo the washing machine,
• LE did not recover all deleted pics -- it is highly unlikely that any pics stored on the SONY's internal memory, if any, were recovered after the wash cycle,
• If JA thought simply to format the memory 'stick', depending upon the type of format procedure, some if not most images were still recovered if they had not yet been overwritten.
• JA may still possess -- not physically in prison, of course -- any or all of these images as she had the ability to copy them from internal memory to the 'stick' or computer, and from the 'stick' to computer and so forth. Is she holding open her options for potential future blackmail?

 

[carnnell]

I don't think she is a hermaphrodite either. The only thing that gave me pause is her proclivity for anal sex because, as I understand from my gay male friends who are "bottoms," anal sex is intensely pleasurable due to stimulation of the prostate. But with Jodi I think anal is just how she rolls.

Women can enjoy anal sex against the uterus especially the top of vagina/bottom of uterus. After listen to clients long enough, one learns alot. This information isn't from personal experience! haha

 

[Lulu67]

I wonder if the photos that the banner on Nancy Grace is talking about are these in disneymom69's (tawnidilly) photobucket that were taken when Travis' house was on the market?

http://s193.beta.photobucket.com/user/disneymom69/library/Travis Alexander

I have seen some of these floating around previously but not all them. She has taken some great shots right down to the baseboard debris from where the carpets were removed. Excellent pictures of the bathroom and closet too. Also includes pictures of Travis' headstone and also of the apartment where Jodi was living. They all are great shots!

Great pics disneymom69 and thanks for sharing them.

*Link to her Photobucket is listed on her youtube link .... http://www.youtube.com/user/tawnidilly *

I'm sure she's aware, but "that other site" that loves JA is also posting her pictures. You can see "property of tawnidilly, do not copy of reprint" clearly. I thought that was a bit bold. jmo


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Truth Detector]

Women can enjoy anal sex against the uterus especially the top of vagina/bottom of uterus.

And imaginary Toblerones on a fictional porch?

 

[beldon]

She could have but wouldn't have needed to. If she wanted to shoot him she'd have just put the gun to his head while he slept.

Unless, being Jodi, she wanted him to know he was about to die and that she was the one that was about to kill him.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Women can enjoy anal sex against the uterus especially the top of vagina/bottom of uterus.

I'll just take your word for it. lol

 

[LambChop]

Wasn't it Flores during the first taping who came up with the "shot" being first. That was Jodi's belief when she changed her story about the Ninjas. She felt the State's belief was that the shot was first when she fabricated her Ninja story. She basically took what Flores told her and made it fit into the Ninja story. Flores' belief up until right before the trial was that the shot came first and this is why Nurmi had the fit. They had streamlined her defense on the shot being first and along comes the ME to clarify that Travis was not shot first.

At this point the State had to shift gears and reconfigure their timeline. I have a feeling that at that time it opened up a lot of doors for the State and made more sense to them given the evidence they had collected. Flores' belief would sound reasonable, we can all agree on that because it sound so logical but the State was still left with questions. Along comes the ME and the State has to relook at the sequence of events. I think reason JM is so passionate about this case is because he knows now exactly what she was doing during those 62 seconds and it all makes sense.

If the jury believe she did not shoot him first her whole case is down the tubes. What it ultimately comes down to is do we believe the ME or Jodi. This is why JM exposing the number of lies she has told is so important. Jodi tailors her responses to what serves her the best not on the truth. jmo

 

[SkiptomyLu]

This goes out with respect to KPinMN who is working with Restorative Justice.

I will tell you it would be an absolute blessing and welcomed event should my sister's killers offer me a conversation of sincere remorse and asking for forgiveness. I would trade the death penalty for that kind of healing opportunity with the promise they stop appealing and leave us alone and let us all live with the consequences. It would be a great unburdening of my heart.

As A Course In Miracles says "the holiest place on Earth is where an ancient hatred becomes a present love". I would sincerely welcome that opportunity for my own release with my heart open wide.

The problem as you say is that will never happen with a sociopath. So we are left with negotiating the world of evil and those who champion that evil in the form of decades of worthless appeals trying to put society at MORE risk.

I envy those families who can participate in Restorative Justice. I have seen documentaries on it and those healing moments bring tears to my eyes now just writing about it. A sincere apology goes a long way and ripples out beyond itself.

I applaud what you are doing and also your discernment on where to effectively place your time and energy. It's a miraculous endeavor you are treading with.

BBM

You are absolutely right. I have had a lot of things happen to me in life, but the most painful by a long long long shot was having a sociopath as my 1st cousin. As I've mentioned here before, she was not just my cousin, but my peer, and we were close in that we were raised together, and just how our family dynamics were in being a close (no more, and my cousin 100% orchestrated that). In being all of that, I was also the object of her jealousy for so many reasons, I suspect one being that I naturally attracted what a sociopath struggles to achieve with false charms.

when I run into her (cringe - after all she has done) these days she approaches me with all the enthusiasm in the world of a long lost best friend, gives me the biggest hug, and attempts to pull me in via over the top compliments, just over exaggerated everything. she has the most amazing nerve (or lack of entirely) to summarize all bad things that have happened as: "oh, that was just so-and-so's fault." The end.

Everything is calculated and totally manipulated with a huge degree of charm attached, but I never get the sense that she has ever thought in her head that anything is her fault, or thought about what she has done (besides how to get out of it, reflect fault elsewhere, etc., etc.), or felt a wink of guilt about it.

This experience is the one thing I struggle to disclose within me the most. Yes, they are destructive people to phrase it very simply.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

I remember with another psychopath in FL, that they can almost make you believe YOU are the one with mental issues. It's hard to wrap your brain around them. I guess it "scrambles" our brain trying to understand them.

 

[Angelina Frost]

Minor, I posted this in the LQ thread, maybe you will see it here....or someone who knows can address this. Can't wait to have it ironed out until Monday- the suspense is strangling me like a python. TIA.

The jury will have all of the photos that were admitted into evidence, even if the photos were not published to the jury as part of the trial presentation. I do not know if there are any photos that were admitted but not published because we did not see all of the photos that were shown to the jury.

From what I gather from the arguments yesterday, Juan believes that Samuels is attempting to testify to areas that are beyond the scope of his report that was given to the prosecution in 2010. Wilmott argues that there is nothing new, but I think the defense is trying to be sneaky here (kind of like how they initially tried to sneak in the penis picture).

It also seems from the arguments that the defense is trying to get the expert to give an opinion about whether the killing was premeditated or a "crime of passion" and the defense knows that is not allowed, and I cannot imagine that the judge will allow the expert to make such opinions. We shall see what comes from the evidentiary hearing.

BBM x2

Minor, what would this mean in terms of jury deliberation? They can come back with murder 2 or worse, manslaughter?

I'm not well versed in legal matters, although I'm fully aware how serious this is. I guess my question is, worst case scenario for the State and the judge decides to allow this- I know you can't say for sure she will, but she seems to have given the defense a LOT of leeway- what is the significance?

TIA. :seeya:

 

[LambChop]

It also returns us to the question of how she cleaned herself up after killing him. I had been of the mind that she showered in his bathroom either before dragging him in or after while standing over his body. But once I saw that picture I realized she could not have showered there and left that streak so undisturbed.

Your body purges fluid after you die. It's possible he was not clinically dead when she put him in the shower. What was in the shower would have been in part purging, IMO. She had to wash off because she would have been full of blood so either the shower or the tub. When she left the room their was no blood trail so she cleaned up before leaving and locking the door behind her. jmo

 

[TXredhead178]

Excerpt from the paper Dr. Samuels referenced (Amnesia and Crime):

Malingered Amnesia
Another interpretation of crime-related amnesia acknowledges the likelihood that some offenders intentionally fabricate memory loss to avoid punishment for a crime or for other personal gain. While an early study reported that 20 percent of the offenders claiming amnesia were fabricating the memory loss,73 it has been suggested that the rate of malingering is higher.116 The likelihood of malingered amnesia may be greater in offenders with antisocial personality disorder.31,84 Using polygraphy, Lynch and Bradford84 showed that offenders with antisocial personality disorder have a higher propensity to feign amnesia for crimes, compared with those with no personality disorder or other psychopathologic disorders. It has been suggested that offenders with antisocial personality disorder may be prone to malingering amnesia for crimes in part because of the tendencies of manipulation, habitual deceit, and a general poverty in major affective reactions that characterize this disorder.31,84 Other authors have noted the possible contribution of low intelligence and frontal executive dysfunction to the feigning of amnesia for crimes.3,117 However, as it is possible that highly intelligent malingerers are more adept at feigning amnesia for crimes and may thus evade detection and less frequently receive a diagnosis of malingering, further research may help to clarify a link between low intelligence/frontal executive dysfunction and feigned amnesia.

Furthermore, from the same study: In accepting evidence supporting the validity of amnesia claims, it seems clear that the important issue should be determining how to distinguish between genuine amnesia, whatever the cause, and malingered amnesia in cases raising an index of suspicion. Despite several attempts to solve this dilemma,2,11–13,84 there is still no clear answer.

If anyone is interested in reading more! http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/4/469.full


Are we going to see this in the rebuttal phase? :giggle::giggle::giggle::jail:

I also found this in the same paper:

"It has been noted that offenders who claim crime-related dissociative amnesia often alert the police to their crimes and are less likely to deny the offense than are those who do not claim amnesia."

 

[Nosey Parker]

Wasn't it Flores during the first taping who came up with the "shot" being first. That was Jodi's belief when she changed her story about the Ninjas. She felt the State's belief was that the shot was first when she fabricated her Ninja story. She basically took what Flores told her and made it fit into the Ninja story. Flores' belief up until right before the trial was that the shot came first and this is why Nurmi had the fit. They had streamlined her defense on the shot being first and along comes the ME to clarify that Travis was not shot first.

At this point the State had to shift gears and reconfigure their timeline. I have a feeling that at that time it opened up a lot of doors for the State and made more sense to them given the evidence they had collected. Flores' belief would sound reasonable, we can all agree on that because it sound so logical but the State was still left with questions. Along comes the ME and the State has to relook at the sequence of events. I think reason JM is so passionate about this case is because he knows now exactly what she was doing during those 62 seconds and it all makes sense.

If the jury believe she did not shoot him first her whole case is down the tubes. What it ultimately comes down to is do we believe the ME or Jodi. This is why JM exposing the number of lies she has told is so important. Jodi tailors her responses to what serves her the best not on the truth. jmo

I began by thinking she shot him first - even got carried away with visions of a hostage situation. Then I decided to go back to keeping it simple. She would have wanted to get this over and done with before someone came to the house. So she waited her chance and struck.

The main reason I switched to the gun shot last though was because she is adamant it was first!

 

[JRS_JD2L]

She could have but wouldn't have needed to. If she wanted to shoot him she'd have just put the gun to his head while he slept.

Yes, but much easier to clean up in the shower. Plus, there is no evidence that Travis ever slept after JA got there on June 4. I think she stole the gun and intended it to be the murder weapon...then, the gun jammed, and like she said in the ninja story, "He was still alive!" anicprobably one of the only truths in her story). She had not choice but to use the knife. She was not leaving there until she was 100% sure he was dead.

 

[Truth Detector]

She could have but wouldn't have needed to. If she wanted to shoot him she'd have just put the gun to his head while he slept.

The only testimony we have that TA slept that day is from the lying lips of a torture-murderess.

Employing the Arias Anti-Truth Axiom, he didn't sleep that day. The truth is usually 180 degrees opposite her statements.

I suspect that she cased TA's house to ensure that the roommates were not home. The only humans who know when she entered that house are probably JA and TA.

And she ensured that TA isn't talking now.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Since we have you here, minor, can the judge, at the DT's behest add lesser charges before the end of the trial?