Jodi Arias Murder Trial - the defense continues it's case in chief-*Weekend* #89

[JusticeJunkie]

No, no, I know - I was talking about any/all other times someone came to watch Napoleon - had Travis *ever* asked any of them to put up the gate... it seems as though Travis didn't like the gate, so I'm not sure why he even had it.

I was just looking for any prior pattern - expecting there isn't one.

Perhaps Travis used the gate when he was cleaning house, to block of areas he was cleaning so they could dry, etc. without pug prints.

One of the pics on HLN show exactly what you are saying. I'll try to find the # for you.

 

[Pink Panther]

That's right! And Juan referred to a pic where TA was aroused, IIRC. Isn't that when he threw out the "t" word (tumescent)?

I don't remember this. Have I entered a fog? When did he say this?

Help!

 

[Carnie]

If Travis did it, maybe it was because there was sex by-product on the sheets?

If anything, the bed should be unmade cause she claimed they'd just awakened. I don't get why they just woke up, made the bed, then started having sex. So this might be more proof that she arrived later than she claimed. I think she might have arrived at 1pm. listen to her talk to flores about her arrival.

http://youtu.be/FoUB2UzWjtI?t=14m

She immediately jumps up, accusing Flores of not believing her when she tells him about her arrival and the first part of june 4th.

I see no problem with these pictures being taken BEFORE sex on a made bed, and I see no problem with having sex on a bed that is already made. I do see a problem with waking up at 1pm as she claims, making the bed, then having sex on it. Travis seemed tired in the pics on the bed. So why make it and then have sex on it?

If the bed is indeed made. I wasn't able to tell from the pics.

See, to me, his, um, wangdoodle looks like it is the refractory phase. Still flush with blood from, well, you know, but not at attention.

There's really no delicate way to put it. Bu it doesn't look like nothing had happened just before it.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Hi everyone!

I had been lurking here quite a bit during the CA trial, and came back again for this trial. I have finally decided to come out of the shadows and post a few thoughts. Apologies ahead of time if I repeat anyone else's opinions (it is Impossible to go through all the posts.)

:twocents:
1. Motive - the may 26 text from Travis unmasking Jodi as a sociopath. A sociopath, psychopath, or narcissist unmasked is probably one of the most enraged, dangerous people that exist. The fact that Travis threatened to unmask her to other people in their circle added fuel to an already raging fire.

2. Shot first or last - I don't understand why it has to be either or. Stabbing someone apparently takes a lot of energy. Isn't it possible that she started stabbing, got tired and shot him to subdue him enough so she could finish what she started? I truly believe that she would have preferred stabbing to inflict the most psychological torture, that she wanted Travis to know what was happening and why. That's why, when I see people question why she just didn't shoot him and leave, I always think "it wasn't just about wanting him dead, she wanted him to suffer."

3. Abuse allegations - a lot of the supposed abuse involved being anally raped repeatedly and treated like a sex slave. I am not a psychologist but I find it odd that, with those types of allegations, Travis's genitals were not injured during the murder.

4. Shower photos - I believe he was being held at gunpoint, knife-point, or both. The photos look to me like he was being told exactly how to pose, and I think she was using these shots to get up the nerve, and also to get him into the most convenient position for her to do what she came for.

5. Self-defense - You just have to look at his injuries vs hers. It just boggles my mind that self-defense can even be put forward as a logical defense!!

6. Sex tape - I will admit that I haven't listened to the whole thing. It just feels so invasive. I believe that Travis was somewhat sexually naive when he met Jodi, and she opened up a whole new world for him. He became intoxicated and probably a bit addicted to the whole experience, but in my mind there is no doubt the she was the experienced aggressor. Travis probably spent a lot of time trying to keep up with her in regards to fantasies. The little bit of the sex tape I heard sounded very clumsy and juvenile on his part. I am a woman, and I think most women would not find that conversation in the least sexy. Jodi, however, loves it and encourages this type of talk.

7. Travis's inability to just cut all ties with her - sex of course, but there is more. I have a relative who is a narcissist and when you deal with one for any length of time you become almost a co-dependent narcissist. What happens is you start questioning their motives or what the next move will be, and they usually aren't good. After awhile you start thinking "what kind of person am I to think that about someone, I am worse than they are!" . Then the times when they do something sweet the guilt really kicks into overdrive and you feel awful. Then you are vulnerable and want to give them the benefit of the doubt and allow them to get close again. I am sure it is the same cycle with a sociopath. I am a little tired so I probably didn't explain it too well.


Well,, that's a few of my thoughts. Sorry again if I have repeated any already stated opinions.

LurkerNoMore

You've been storing up some good thoughts!!! Glad to have you hear with us at WS!

 

[wasnt_me]

If it was to avoid detection, it was exactly the wrong thing to do (assuming that she did it while in Az). it could have very easily drawn attention of an Az cop and there would have ended her ability to enter and depart the state without leaving a paper trail.

A Utah alibi, as you point out, was already in her plans, plus any credit cars purchase would have established her presence there.

Whatever reason she had, it was stupid to turn her license plate upside down

I thought it was that she removed both plates before entering Travis' vicinity. That would make it harder for anybody to tell the police where the white car came from. Then I assumed she put one back on, accidentally upside down, and couldn't find the screws for the other.

I personally think it's insane to drive on any major road with no plate at all and expect NOT to be pulled over.

 

[legalmania]

Oh thank you! Geeesh... I'm more screwed up than I thought. I've been thinking it was Sunday all day! .... Blushing....

I actually went out and checked to make sure I didn't kill my partner and went into a fog for a day.

 

[Rosebud1952]

Do we know why she had another rental car?

JA had mentioned at some point that her car was repossessed,

 

[Pink Panther]

If it was to avoid detection, it was exactly the wrong thing to do (assuming that she did it while in Az). it could have very easily drawn attention of an Az cop and there would have ended her ability to enter and depart the state without leaving a paper trail.

A Utah alibi, as you point out, was already in her plans, plus any credit cars purchase would have established her presence there.

Whatever reason she had, it was stupid to turn her license plate upside down

She drove for a long time with all kinds of evidence in her car. The gun, the knife, bloody clothes, if you believe her a rope...Her car was as much a part of her alibi as her presence in Utah. Car clean? Nothing suspicious? Heck, she drove LU in her car. It was CLEAN. Even better if she gets pulled over and nothing seems strange, no?

moo

 

[BritsKate]

Poor TA. He even helped her financially to get her the he## out of Mesa!

She still didn't leave and ended up camping out at his place for a few more days. Unbelievable!

One thing I can say about these sociopathic "creatures"...If they haven't found their "next target" yet, you're in trouble. JA hadn't quite lined up enough for her next target - she was stranded. Look at what she moved back to when she moved back to Yreka. No friends. No "supply".

I was lucky. Mine already had his next one lined up.

moo

And mine got sent to prison for awhile. I am positively convinced the only things that stop a psychopath are a new target, incarceration, or death. Nothing else seems to ever deter them from their primary target.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

That's right! And Juan referred to a pic where TA was aroused, IIRC. Isn't that when he threw out the "t" word (tumescent)?

I think the occasion for the use of that word was when he was asking Lisa about what happened when they kissed, and naïve Lisa felt she had led Travis to go too far with his thinking, not realizing it is involuntary.

 

[thefragile7393]

See, to me, his, um, wangdoodle looks like it is the refractory phase. Still flush with blood from, well, you know, but not at attention.

There's really no delicate way to put it. But it doesn't look like nothing had happened just before it.

Lololol! I love your phraseology!!!

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Rosebud1952]

It's kinda sad but I'm not convinced he'd even know the signs, much less diagnostic criteria, 'specially seeing as he is reading out of the DSM-IV on the stand.

I get the impression this doc has pigeon-holed Jodi into a diagnosis he already assumed - with a lot of help on her part; his knowledge of other areas of psychology, like personality disorders, is limited at best; and he himself has been snowed by her psychopathy.

JMO

He wasn't snowed. He is doing it for the money and he is gross. Him and JA would be great bed partners.

He looks like "Uncle Fester" and he needs a haircut badly. Maybe he should be bartering for a haircut next.

 

[paperwing]

Interesting! Do you think she was really crying when she said she was shallow in the new interview footage? It seemed legit to me and that is pathetic.

I don't know, nawd68 - I think she *can* really cry - but only if it's about her.

I just saw a clip of her breaking down and immediately starting to 'cry'. I'm not sure if it was when JM was asking her if she cried when she stabbed Travis, or if it was in response to an autopsy or other image in court.

It looked SO fake - but I couldn't put my finger on it. Then I realized what it was - while she 'broke down', she adjusted herself in her chair... I know, it seems like nothing, but it was that movement that made everything look like an act.

I believe if she was truly distraught, she wouldn't be scooting her bottom around in the chair - either to get more comfortable, or in advance of wanting to lean on the tabletop more.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think someone that distraught wouldn't do that - wouldn't even be aware of discomfort or positioning, other than to collapse, etc., not adjust.

I can't explain it. It just made a difference to me. I've been trying to figure out why so many believe, sense, feel that she's faking... (I'm one of these people), and I think these unrelated gestures/movements may signal something that just says "fake" to us - even if we aren't fully aware of exactly what it is that gives this perception.

Her movements are so calculated, to the point of being annoying. I've mentioned before that I call it her 'pretty face' that she puts on ALL the time - even when she's crying - crying but trying to appear pretty at the same time. Bad actresses do this and it drives me nuts. That's just one example.

Despite any efforts by the DT to explain away her lack of emotion when describing the murder scene etc., through their expert, my guess is I'm hardly alone in thinking, "No, sorry, I just see psychopath, that's all." She may have PTSD - I don't see it. And I don't see any emotional humanity in JA at all.

 

[Curious Me]

I hate neurology but there have been lots of studies done to show that a psychopath's brain works very differently than that of a normal person. Including the areas responsible for assessing risk and social anxieties that keep many 'normal' people in check.

The 'whys' still aren't fully understood but here's one recent article you may find interesting.

Why Psychopaths Take Dumb Risks?

:gthanks:

I found the article very interesting. In fact, I think it's a very informative site.

Why Psychopaths Take Dumb Risks?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Don't Jodi's feet look HUGE in that headstand? SHe looks like she wears a size 12 shoe and she's my height. Freak of nature.

Maybe she was born a male, and had multiple surgeries to become female????? Lots of manly features in Jodi... Jody

 

[Lulu67]

Hi everyone!

I had been lurking here quite a bit during the CA trial, and came back again for this trial. I have finally decided to come out of the shadows and post a few thoughts. Apologies ahead of time if I repeat anyone else's opinions (it is Impossible to go through all the posts.)

:twocents:
1. Motive - the may 26 text from Travis unmasking Jodi as a sociopath. A sociopath, psychopath, or narcissist unmasked is probably one of the most enraged, dangerous people that exist. The fact that Travis threatened to unmask her to other people in their circle added fuel to an already raging fire.

2. Shot first or last - I don't understand why it has to be either or. Stabbing someone apparently takes a lot of energy. Isn't it possible that she started stabbing, got tired and shot him to subdue him enough so she could finish what she started? I truly believe that she would have preferred stabbing to inflict the most psychological torture, that she wanted Travis to know what was happening and why. That's why, when I see people question why she just didn't shoot him and leave, I always think "it wasn't just about wanting him dead, she wanted him to suffer."

3. Abuse allegations - a lot of the supposed abuse involved being anally raped repeatedly and treated like a sex slave. I am not a psychologist but I find it odd that, with those types of allegations, Travis's genitals were not injured during the murder.

4. Shower photos - I believe he was being held at gunpoint, knife-point, or both. The photos look to me like he was being told exactly how to pose, and I think she was using these shots to get up the nerve, and also to get him into the most convenient position for her to do what she came for.

5. Self-defense - You just have to look at his injuries vs hers. It just boggles my mind that self-defense can even be put forward as a logical defense!!

6. Sex tape - I will admit that I haven't listened to the whole thing. It just feels so invasive. I believe that Travis was somewhat sexually naive when he met Jodi, and she opened up a whole new world for him. He became intoxicated and probably a bit addicted to the whole experience, but in my mind there is no doubt the she was the experienced aggressor. Travis probably spent a lot of time trying to keep up with her in regards to fantasies. The little bit of the sex tape I heard sounded very clumsy and juvenile on his part. I am a woman, and I think most women would not find that conversation in the least sexy. Jodi, however, loves it and encourages this type of talk.

7. Travis's inability to just cut all ties with her - sex of course, but there is more. I have a relative who is a narcissist and when you deal with one for any length of time you become almost a co-dependent narcissist. What happens is you start questioning their motives or what the next move will be, and they usually aren't good. After awhile you start thinking "what kind of person am I to think that about someone, I am worse than they are!" . Then the times when they do something sweet the guilt really kicks into overdrive and you feel awful. Then you are vulnerable and want to give them the benefit of the doubt and allow them to get close again. I am sure it is the same cycle with a sociopath. I am a little tired so I probably didn't explain it too well.


Well,, that's a few of my thoughts. Sorry again if I have repeated any already stated opinions.

LurkerNoMore

Welcome!! And what an awesome first post! This really made me think, and maybe you're right about the shooting, I had never even considered that.


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[paperwing]

I believe it was Willmott.

No matter who it is, my heart goes out to them and the rest of their family.
:candle:

 

[Lulu67]

Well, on the upside it would give us something to discuss while court is dark besides knife first/gun first and did they/didn't they have sex that day.

Totally O/T: Just had to say, I love Lady Edith. Poor girl, I hope she FINALLY finds love next season!


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[BritsKate]

He wasn't snowed. He is doing it for the money and he is gross. Him and JA would be great bed partners.

He looks like "Uncle Fester" and he needs a haircut badly. Maybe he should be bartering for a haircut next.

I agree the money's a factor...but when speaking of first meeting Jodi there's an unanticipated sympathetic tone to his voice. A bonhamie of sorts, totally inappropriate for a therapist and adult patient on trial for murder.

Almost like he's viewing her as a daughter or granddaughter. And if he is viewing her sympathetically, as his testimony would further imply, then in my estimation he's been conned. Many psychologists and psychiatrists are manipulated by psychopaths - even when they know the patient is disordered.

Unnerving to say the absolute least.

MOO

 

[nickster]

We have way too many sociopaths in our society. Why isn't more research done to detect and why isn't some type of treatment researched more aggressively.

I was married to one for almost 20 years, I will never recover from his wrath. My daughter as been diagnosed as bipolar and in great part I truly believe it's his fault, if not genetically but from the trauma of living in such a home. My life has not been easy.

I have followed the Casey Anthony trial from when CA first was on TV telling us about her missing granddaughter. I had no doubts about FCA's guilt, as I do not have a doubt about JA, or should I say I do not believe it was self defense as she admitted to the killing. FCA another sociopath let free to roam our world with no treatment and no incarceration. I really have to say that I am afraid that this "creature" JA will be let free.

The system has let me down more times than I can count and I have truly lost all my faith in our legal system. It's say anything, do anything to get away with what you have done and you must pray that the people listening and responsible, don't have somewhere to go or something to do and come up with the right verdict.

I watch with bated breath. I hope, I pray that this time will restore my faith. This world is a mess.

I totally agree with everything you said. I really think a court of law is who can lie the best, that's why def attys are so reviled. It makes me sick.