Jodi Arias Murder Trial - the defense continues it's case in chief-*Weekend* #89

[JusticeJunkie]

Anyone hazard a guess about what's on the countertop in 165 of 180?

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013...otos-nancy-grace-mysteries-day-4?hpt=sizzling

Good heavens. Do you have to scroll through them all to get to the ones at the end???
I thought the gray thing looked like a dildo, and the rest just bathroom things???

 

[Lulu67]

This makes the most sense to me too. Remember in her ninja story he screams, "I can't feel my legs." This was probably true due to pressure on the spinal chord by the knife wounds to the back. His legs probably gave out and he collapsed, pulling himself down the hall until she cuts his throat.
Where do you place the gun shot?

Maybe as he was lying on the floor before she put him in the shower. I initially thought while he was in the shower, but would that work for the casing being so far away?? I know nothing about guns..... I don't know.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[KandyKane]

I began by thinking she shot him first - even got carried away with visions of a hostage situation. Then I decided to go back to keeping it simple. She would have wanted to get this over and done with before someone came to the house. So she waited her chance and struck.

The main reason I switched to the gun shot last though was because she is adamant it was first!

The simplest reasons that the gun shot came last is because of the ME and forensics. The ME testified that once he was shot he would either have died or been rendered incopacitated. We know he wasn't incopacitated during the attack because of the fact that he left the shower and got himself almost all the way down the hall and he also had defensive cuts on his hands and I believe one or more on an arm. We also know that he could not have been shot first because the shell casing fell into a pool of blood and there was no other blood dripped or sprayed on top of it. He HAD to have been stabbed first for these reasons.

For reference: medical examiner's testimony (starts about about a minute and a half into the video)...
[video=youtube;4h0fje33320]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h0fje33320[/video]

Jodi is so adament that the shot came first otherwise she couldn't have claimed self-defense. She can't claim that he attacked her so she ran down to the kitchen, grabbed a knife, and ran BACK to the bathroom to defend herself since if she was able to get down to the kitchen (and we know he didn't follow her there) it isn't self-defense but murder since there is no reason she could not have kept running out of the house and get away from him, and there wouldn't be any reason for a knife to be in the immediate vacinity that she knew about and could immediately protect herself with. She MUST insist that the gun shot came first because any other scenerio makes it murder, not self-defense.

Personally, I think that she intended to kill him with the knife and only had the gun as back-up. I don't think she wanted to use the gun because of the fear that someone would hear it fire, and she might get caught in the house by police or a neighbor. I also believe that she imagined she could stab him once or twice and he'd die neatly in the shower with all the blood evidence being washed away. I think she freaked out after she stabbed him and he fought back, got out of the shower and was able to not only get out of the bathroom but all the way down the hall, and she went into a frenzy of stabbing because he wasn't conveniently dying right away. I also believe that the throat slitting and subsequent gun shot to the head was that she wanted to make sure he was REALLY dead, but also because she was pissed off at him for not dying neatly and quickly in the shower and made a bloody mess of the place which was not at all what she had invisioned.

 

[moonbird]

You guys I'm just moved beyond anything right now. I just received a package in the mail from one of our posters who's sending it in the name of ALL the WS forum posters here. It's a package of gifts for Travis' family, some for some of the legal team , something for me, etc. She wishes to remain anonymous but let me tell you this is VERY generous and VERY special. The care that went in to this is beyond anything... i will post more on it w/ pics on the kcl thread (for lack of a better place) if you want to go check it out later. Running out the door now but wanted to just share this amazing piece of generosity. She's posting among us but wants to reap the rewards in only the way a random act of kindness offers. Much love to you, you know who you are!!!

total wonderfulness!!! offering my gratitude and admiration to the mystery poster! people like you give me so much hope! thank you :heartbeat:

Justice For Travis Alexander!

 

[Karmady]

Good heavens. Do you have to scroll through them all to get to the ones at the end???
I thought the gray thing looked like a dildo, and the rest just bathroom things???

You can more quickly scroll down with the arrow bar attached to the right of the thumbnails on the right side of the screen. And that's kinda what the gray thing looked like to me, too. And it's resting on a tube of something, as well.

eta: it's not actually an "arrow" attached to the thumbnails. Just a gray bar with a black cursor that you can pull up and down

 

[minor4th]

Yes, but I don't know how she gained possession of them in the first place.

I wonder if those are the journals that Jodi had taken. Not completely sure they are "journals" like Jodi's journals though - I think I read somewhere that they may be drafts of his autobiography that he was writing and things along those lines. I do hope we get to see some of Travis' own words.

 

[Shadowboy]

Originally Posted by Ammonitida
The intruder story seems to have been made up on the fly. I don't think it was something she thought about before the murder. She was confident that her cell phone alibi, her alibi with Burns, and the lack of any electronic evidence of her in Arizona would be enough to ensure her freedom. My belief is that she did not have much confidence in that toy-like gun and so she packed a knife just in case.

Yes, I pretty much agree with you. I thought it was an interesting explanation for the two weapons, though, and would be interested to hear what others think.

IMO JA probably knew she'd be a top suspect and the theft of the 25 mm had been reported to police. Given her preplanning, I believe she decided on "plan B" ... Use the gun only if needed. (Of course, I'm a "shot last" kinda gal; tend to go with the ME's science on that one.)

 

[JusticeJunkie]

This question was about Samuels' testimony and his opinion about premeditation vs. "crime of passion" and whether such testimony, if allowed, could lead to a lesser charge like manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

First of all, I don't think the testimony would be allowed, but I believe there will likely be jury instructions on a lesser included charge. The judge has to give jury instructions on any lesser included offenses that are supported at all by the evidence, if either side requests the instruction.

I think there will be a manslaughter instruction because of Jodi's testimony that she didn't mean to shoot him even though she pointed a gun at him to "stop him." I have not really heard any testimony from her that fits second degree murder, so we'll see what else comes in and what the attorneys argue in their charging conference. I do not think Samuels' testimony will impact whether or not a lesser included charge is given as a jury instruction though.

Thanks minor. You just answered my question on how the lesser included charges come into play. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!

 

[katiecoolady]

total wonderfulness!!! offering my gratitude and admiration to the mystery poster! people like you give me so much hope! thank you :heartbeat:

Justice For Travis Alexander!

May I just add, I already had plans to see a member of Travis' family this weekend before this came so I can pass it off to them personally without having to bring it to court. Timing is everything. I'm just blown away over here. Good vibes all around...

I will also add because of this timing I can pass it off as it was wrapped all up in the box. I felt like I was unwrapping a baby in swaddling cloth. I'm saying it's THAT precious. Ok I gotta really run out now......

 

[Dmacky]

You guys I'm just moved beyond anything right now. I just received a package in the mail from one of our posters who's sending it in the name of ALL the WS forum posters here. It's a package of gifts for Travis' family, some for some of the legal team , something for me, etc. She wishes to remain anonymous but let me tell you this is VERY generous and VERY special. The care that went in to this is beyond anything... i will post more on it w/ pics on the kcl thread (for lack of a better place) if you want to go check it out later. Running out the door now but wanted to just share this amazing piece of generosity. She's posting among us but wants to reap the rewards in only the way a random act of kindness offers. Much love to you, you know who you are!!!

That just reinforces my heart and mind that Good will prevail evil ~ Bless her for this random act of kindness~ much love to whoever sent this and may the angels send you many warm hugs.

 

[Elley Mae]

You guys I'm just moved beyond anything right now. I just received a package in the mail from one of our posters who's sending it in the name of ALL the WS forum posters here. It's a package of gifts for Travis' family, some for some of the legal team , something for me, etc. She wishes to remain anonymous but let me tell you this is VERY generous and VERY special. The care that went in to this is beyond anything... i will post more on it w/ pics on the kcl thread (for lack of a better place) if you want to go check it out later. Running out the door now but wanted to just share this amazing piece of generosity. She's posting among us but wants to reap the rewards in only the way a random act of kindness offers. Much love to you, you know who you are!!!

Well dang now you done went and made me cry. Happy tears! No I did not do it, but who ever did has a heart of gold. Thank You mystery person for being so very thoughtful.

 

[Angelina Frost]

The simplest reasons that the gun shot came last is because of the ME and forensics. The ME testified that once he was shot he would either have died or been rendered incopacitated. We know he wasn't incopacitated during the attack because of the fact that he left the shower and got himself almost all the way down the hall and he also had defensive cuts on his hands and I believe one or more on an arm. We also know that he could not have been shot first because the shell casing fell into a pool of blood and there was no other blood dripped or sprayed on top of it. He HAD to have been stabbed first for these reasons.

For reference: medical examiner's testimony (starts about about a minute and a half into the video)...
Jodi Arias murder trial day 3. Please be warned, very graphic photos. Medical examiner on stand. - YouTube

Jodi is so adament that the shot came first otherwise she couldn't have claimed self-defense. She can't claim that he attacked her so she ran down to the kitchen, grabbed a knife, and ran BACK to the bathroom to defend herself since if she was able to get down to the kitchen (and we know he didn't follow her there) it isn't self-defense but murder since there is no reason she could not have kept running out of the house and get away from him, and there wouldn't be any reason for a knife to be in the immediate vacinity that she knew about and could immediately protect herself with. She MUST insist that the gun shot came first because any other scenerio makes it murder, not self-defense.

Personally, I think that she intended to kill him with the knife and only had the gun as back-up. I don't think she wanted to use the gun because of the fear that someone would hear it fire, and she might get caught in the house by police or a neighbor. I also believe that she imagined she could stab him once or twice and he'd die neatly in the shower with all the blood evidence being washed away. I think she freaked out after she stabbed him and he fought back, got out of the shower and was able to not only get out of the bathroom but all the way down the hall, and she went into a frenzy of stabbing because he wasn't conveniently dying right away. I also believe that the throat slitting and subsequent gun shot to the head was that she wanted to make sure he was REALLY dead, but also because she was pissed off at him for not dying neatly and quickly in the shower and made a bloody mess of the place which was not at all what she had invisioned.

Another :goodpost: from you, K2.

If you have any time, would you be willing to check out some of the posts from the Sequence of Events thread and give an opinion? Some posters are committed to the shot first, Dr. Horn contradicted himself in written statements vs. courtroom testimoney, based on stabs first it can't be murder one, JM is wrong/ill informed....

TIA.

 

[Ammonitida]

Originally Posted by Ammonitida
The intruder story seems to have been made up on the fly. I don't think it was something she thought about before the murder. She was confident that her cell phone alibi, her alibi with Burns, and the lack of any electronic evidence of her in Arizona would be enough to ensure her freedom. My belief is that she did not have much confidence in that toy-like gun and so she packed a knife just in case.




IMO JA probably knew she'd be a top suspect and the theft of the 25 mm had been reported to police. Given her preplanning, I believe she decided on "plan B" ... Use the gun only if needed. (Of course, I'm a "shot last" kinda gal; tend to go with the ME's science on that one.)

She had an "alibi" for the 25. The phantom burglar. That's why she staged a burglary instead of just "borrowing" it.

 

[minor4th]

Were they on the camera (internal memory) or on its "Memory Stick Duo" (removable/portable memory), as Sony refers to the medium?

Did someone testify conclusively that JA did not copy any of the images to other storage media?

I suspect not.

I believe they were all on the memory card.

I think there was testimony about the time date stamps being embedded in the photo data and could not have been manipulated.

 

[Dmacky]

OMG, well this was bound to happen...but so soon?

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=796451

 

[JusticeJunkie]

You can more quickly scroll down with the arrow bar attached to the right of the thumbnails on the right side of the screen. And that's kinda what the gray thing looked like to me, too. And it's resting on a tube of something, as well.

eta: it's not actually an "arrow" attached to the thumbnails. Just a gray bar with a black cursor that you can pull up and down

Thanks for the tip on scrolling.
Leaving the dildo there (if that's what it is) would indicate she's not bothered by leaving evidence of their sexual tryst. Which begs the question again, why bother to take the (imaginary) rope?

 

[Truth Detector]

I wonder if those are the journals that Jodi had taken. Not completely sure they are "journals" like Jodi's journals though - I think I read somewhere that they may be drafts of his autobiography that he was writing and things along those lines. I do hope we get to see some of Travis' own words.

She claimed to have edited his first chapter.

She was all worked up over his giving credit to another woman for work on the foreword (IIRC), but hadn't appropriately acknowledged Jodi for her editing efforts.

The book was not apparently anywhere near completion...

 

[ctmom]

Yes, I pretty much agree with you. I thought it was an interesting explanation for the two weapons, though, and would be interested to hear what others think.

IMO
Jodi put the KNIFE in TA's ROBE POCKET while TA was in the shower when she first entered the bathroom.
SUCH easy access eh?

Wondering: Does anyone know which roommate came home first after TA was killed and what time was that?

Also..
Notice in the headstand video.. She snoops and rumages in the garbage can?
Just shows habbits r hard to break: Jodi snooped every chance she got in TA's home while "acting" as " Hired Housekeeper"

Also...
For being a "Hired Housekeeper"
She did a lousy job of cleaning up June 4th...

 

[Ammonitida]

Here are gas purchases for June 5th or 6th

10.6 gallons

9.6 gallons

5.08 gallons

The above comes to a little over 25 gallons of gas

The tank capacity for her rental car was estimated at 12 gallons, if I recall correctly.

Assuming that she was driving on fumes when she got to the gas station in Salt Lake, subtract 12 gallons from 25 and you get 13.

Divide 13 by 3 and you get 4.3. 13 gallons would take at least three 5 gallon gas cans to hold. This appears to be very strong evidence that she had three gas cans in salt lake city. Combine this with evidence that she did not return the third gas can (a Walmart rep is now expected to testify to this in rebuttal), the third gas can becomes undeniable.

Am I correct here or am I missing something?

 

[Karmady]

Thanks for the tip on scrolling.
Leaving the dildo there (if that's what it is) would indicate she's not bothered by leaving evidence of their sexual tryst. Which begs the question again, why bother to take the (imaginary) rope?

Not sure what to make of it. I guess I was just surprised to see it (or at least what it appears to be) w/o having heard anything about it previously. Lord knows we've heard just about everything else!