Jodi Arias TAKES THE STAND #37 *may contain graphic and adult content*

[MandyLeigh]

Hi Everyone. Newbie here. I have been following this case since the first day in court. Before that I was told about it by my daughter, who is also a member, and became completely hooked. Wanted to say hello and to thank you all for having me. :newhere:

Hi Kacey! :seeya: Welcome. :wagon:

I waited for years for this to finally start up but it turned into a little gift becuase the people here are wonderful. I think Travis would be pleased to see how many wonderful people got together becuase of him.

 

[elementary]

IMO, since his corpse was laying on the right side, with TA's left side of his head facing upwards, it is ridiculous to speculate that JA twisted his head around to shoot him. The trajectory of the bullet's entry and resting place fits perfectly with the theory of him being shot while sitting in the position of his last living photo. As she pulled the trigger he flinched away and it clipped the frontal lobe above his right brow and stopped in his sinus above the left cheek.

Why do you think that the only place she could have shot him is in the shower? Am I missing something here?

 

[Morning Glory]

I think the casing being kicked is a possibility, but it seems unlikely that it would avoid contact with any other blood. It was kicked so perfectly that it landed on top of the blood without rolling, etc? I guess it's possible, but it doesn't seem all that likely. IMO

Hmmm... wouldn't her feet or shoes have blood on them then?

With regard to "which came first" and "why" I think it's very plausible that she wanted to stab him first and had the gun as a back up. Stabbing is much more personal and he'd be privy to her vengeance. She could have brought both weapons and simply just grabbed one at random. Also though she had to have had the weapon on her as she approached Travis, with at least one hand occupied with the camera but it's must more logical that she used both. Portability and what she was wearing could have been a factor.

It's also late and I'm over-thinking... :twocents: :sleep:

 

[AndreaBingham]

Good point. I think the shot was so grievous, it's hard to imagine that with that wound and then the continuous stabbing that he could have manoeuvered himself a distance away. He would have had to have been so alert to fight for survival. I can't imagine anyone doing that with a bullet to the head. Of course, this is mere speculation.

Actually, it is not mere speculation. You are 100 percent correct.

The medical examiner testified that the bullet to the head would have immediately rendered him unconscious, so the possibility that he could have moved after the bullet wound doesn't exist.

 

[elementary]

I'm going to guess that she is going to lie and state Travis pushed or hit her. She fell on the floor where her purse/backpack was located. She grabbed the gun at that time.

Oh, okay. Thanks. I finally get it why it's necessary for the gun to come first.

 

[Zeno49]

It's hard to say because Jodi's behavior does not fit the profile, and I think we can all see that. So can the expert, I'm sure lol.

Yes, I think she will generally explain the psychological dynamic and the various circumstances that are usually present in such relationships. Then she could go through the instances in Jodi's testimony that could fit within that dynamic --but again, it will all be based on the assumption that Jodi is telling the truth throughout her testimony.

I believe this is the key for JM ‘s attack on JA expert witnesses. He will carefully ask the experts all the individual facts the experts relied on to come to their conclusion. Then JM will ask the experts - what if certain facts turn out to be utterly wrong? That is, for example what if JA lied about this that or the other THEN what happens to the expert opinion as to battered woman syndrome and to justifiable self defense?
The expert witness opinion holds water ONLY if JA account of the case is TRUE. The expert must back down when the hypothetical is pressed what if JA lied about the circumstances?
Then JM will go onto to demonstrate how often JA has lied in this case. The expert opinion will be completely dismantled after 1-2 hours of cross examination.

 

[elementary]

I still haven't gotten an answer to WHY it matters if the gunshot came first or not? What difference does it make? I don't get it. The charges don't change, the possible sentences don't change. The murder is still considered cruel and heinous regardless.

So what is the difference?

I don't think it makes a difference, but maybe it matters to the defence. In order to downplay the sadism.

She didn't mean to be cruel. The gun jammed. Out of mercy she kept stabbing him so he wouldn't suffer longer.

 

[elementary]

Wow. :notgood:
Thank you for posting this. It was extremely interesting. She showed real emotion during the parts that would be something that really did happen (moo) like him kneeling, possibly screaming and holding his head and what got me the most, when she recalled Travis getting to the carpet. She said "and I..." and broke down. The image of slicing him from ear to ear must be burned into her crazy brain.

It's like an on and off switch when she puts the lies in and the parts that really happened. Emotion, composure, emotion, composure, but even the most vile human being can't help but be disturbed when thinking of the moment she sliced a man's throat to the bone.

I despise this woman. There are people on this earth who have hurt others and for whom I can not stand. People I just want to get my own hands on. Jodi is on that list.

She is not capable of any emotion unless it has to do with her, IMO.

She is vile, empty and satisfied. She will feast on the images of Travis' suffering and death for the rest of her (hopefully brief) life. She relished every moment and will relish it in the telling on the stand and until the day she dies, no matter what her purported "emotion".

 

[neesaki]

Why does it matter if she shot him first or somewhere in the middle or at the end? Does that somehow lessen the horror of his death? If she did shoot him first does that mean anything in terms of the charges? The judge already ruled regardless of the order of the wounds the hurdle was met to allow a jury to consider the DP if they get to that point.

How will the absolute definitive answer ever be known about the exact sequence of wounds inflicted? Think Jodi is going to be honest about that and tell us? I doubt it. Can you trust what she says on the stand? I don't.

The way I see it, no one will ever really know what exactly went down in the exact order moment by moment. Not even the killer will have full recollection to be able to recreate each micro-movement. It's a debate with no end because the answer isn't going to be known to anyone's satisfaction.

There are 2 choices. Go with the expert who actually viewed, autopsied and analyzed the body, or imagine a different scenario based on...well...whatever other criteria people who aren't the medical examiner and didn't actually view the body use. By the way, the M.E. opined the blood pouring down TA's back in that one pic is consistent with the neck wound. Common sense backs that up since that was the largest wound with the most and fastest blood loss. No other wound on TA's body would pour from the neck area down over a shoulder.

I guess I just like figuring these things out, if there's any mystery in something I just have to try to get to the bottom of it. I also hate it when pieces of the puzzle are missing, or don't quite seem to fit. But that's just me and I am rather OCD, lol.

 

[Zeno49]

Why do you think that the only place she could have shot him is in the shower? Am I missing something here?

The attack ie the gun shot was initiated in the shower because :
1) There is a very tight timeline by which one GSW to the head , 29 stab wound landed in the chest and abdomen , and a near decapitation (very very difficult to do) ALL within a span of some 2 minutes had to have occurred (based on the photo timeline)
2) For a relative petite JA to overpower a much larger TA JA needed him in a vulnerable relative defenseless position. I cannot think of a better strategy than to initiate killing TA while in a near fetal position inside a shower stall.
3) JA had the element of surprise. Why waste it by letting TA out of the shower stall?
4) Stabbing a person in a sitting position with his hands extended outward by a person who is standing upright to TA right side and who is LEFT HANDED makes NO SENSE. Try to enact this act yourself. Have somebody sit in a shower, awake and mobile. Then enact a knife attack with your left hand downward and into a the chest. First of all such an attack is awkward. Second it would be very difficult to get enough torque or kinetics energy to penetrate the chest through costal cartilage. If an initial knife attack came from a standing person it would have been much easier to do it with the RIGHT HAND. JA ‘ s injuries were appropriately on her left hand.
5) Realize the knife wounds- according to the ME report - to the chest did NOT traverse from up to down but rather entered the chest more in a horizontal direction- if not down to up!!!

 

[elementary]

JA may love the current limelight and the chance to float her stories out there, but think ahead to 5, 10, 15 yrs out. Will anyone remember the details of what she said on the stand? I doubt it. They'll remember she was a liar and twisted and that'll be about it. She'll forever be the crazy psycho stalker who brutally murdered an ex-boyfriend. She will fade away from the collective consciousness just as surely as any other common rage killer. And TA's family and friends will continue to hold him in their hearts forever.

Gad, I can barely remember what she said the last time! Actually I feel my eyes glazing over as we speak.......

She's a nonentity. And aaaaaaah, so freaking boring.

I will remember Travis singing.

 

[Isabelle]

What exactly do you mean by energy?

Energy can be understood as a type of force. The release of energy is the result of work. In this case, work would be the bullet being shot from the gun carrying a certain amount of energy. This energy is transferred to the skull and brain as the bullet makes impact. The energy doesn't just stop once the bullet enters the skull, but it continues until it is used up. The effect the bullet has on the skull and brain tissue is a result of the energy being used up. I hope this makes sense. In physics, "for every action (bullet shot out of the gun) there is an equal and opposite reaction (result of impact with and penetration of skull and brain tissue). Even if the bullet did not enter brain tissue, there would be an energy that is transferred to the brain tissue that might be likened to shock waves. This energy would almost certainly cause trauma, bruising, etc. I am really having to reach into the cobwebs of my brain!

 

[KBisMe]

Energy can be understood as a type of force. The release of energy is the result of work. In this case, work would be the bullet being shot from the gun carrying a certain amount of energy. This energy is transferred to the skull and brain as the bullet makes impact. The energy doesn't just stop once the bullet enters the skull, but it continues until it is used up. The effect the bullet has on the skull and brain tissue is a result of the energy being used up. I hope this makes sense. In physics, "for every action (bullet shot out of the gun) there is an equal and opposite reaction (result of impact with and penetration of skull and brain tissue). Even if the bullet did not enter brain tissue, there would be an energy that is transferred to the brain tissue that might be likened to shock waves. This energy would almost certainly cause trauma, bruising, etc. I am really having to reach into the cobwebs of my brain!

Very well put. This is why I also don't think the gun shot was first. Arguments can be made for either side, but this is the reason I lean more towards the gun shot being last.

While reading this I was picturing the videos of the meteor that exploded over Russia today. Flying through the sky (like a bullet) but it burnt up and exploded before impacting. The shock wave from the blast alone caused windows to blow out, etc.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Here is the thing that might save her: Travis kept sleeping with her even after she had shown obvious signs that she was unstable. Most men would have run a mile and not responded to it .. Travis on the other hand argued with her about it and ended their official relationship, yet took it underground so they could keep sleeping with each other. The fact that this is what led up to the crime might just get her LWOP instead of the DP because there is some provocation in that. I can only assume the reason Travis did continue on is because he enjoyed the sex so much, but he should have known that Jodi was obviously interested in a lot more than just sex with him and withdrawn from her and found another sexual partner who was not as vulnerable and disturbed.

 

[elementary]

JMO, this is why I personally believe that the defense has to put the shot to the head first. They are also saying that the headshot would not have rendered him unable to fight and harm her.

I will say that it matters a lot if Travis was shot first or last. It matters in the “self defense” claim. The defense is trying to say that Jodi had to shoot Travis as he lunged at her to save her own life. He did not go down from the shot and continued to go after her. The gun jammed and she was “forced” to resort to using a knife* in order to save her own life. He continued to go after her and in a terrified panic she repeatedly stabbed him and sliced his throat to finally stop him. She was a battered, abused woman who feared for her life.

*She will explain that she kept the gun and knife in her backpack for protection when she was traveling alone.

The defense is trying desperately to keep the needle out of her arm. This is why they are claiming that he was shot first and that he could still harm her.

A terrific theory, but it doesn't explain the many wounds in his back.

 

[getReal]

I continue to argue for an alternative theory. The casing was ejected onto a clean patch of bathroom floor. THe stabbing and blood splatter occurs in bathroom and sink but away from the casing.
After the death and sandwiching TA back into shower stall JA could have kicked the casing onto a patch of blood where the casing did not roll but flipped.

Given all the activity occurring in the bathroom during the struggle and in particular after the homicide. JA spent hours in the bathroom and bedroom cleaning up THE BATHROOM and shower. Of course the casing was not in the pristine original place it started in after the gun shot.

(My argument at least)

My theory is the same as yours.

One thing I have not seen considered here yet is the possibility of blood seeping beneath an object such as the bullet casing.

 

[Isabelle]

I don't think it makes a difference, but maybe it matters to the defence. In order to downplay the sadism.

She didn't mean to be cruel. The gun jammed. Out of mercy she kept stabbing him so he wouldn't suffer longer.

I think the order of injuries was important when it was determined whether this could be a death penalty case, but not so much as to whether it was self defense or not. Early on the judge spoke about a decision made by another judge earlier in the case and that judge said it didn't matter what came first, since all of the attacks would be considered cruel and would have caused great pain.

ETA: Jodi would have had a better case for DV if she would have only killed Travis once!

 

[Sleuth13]

If/when this becomes a Lifetime movie, I respectfully request the ME be played by Rob Lowe
(He reminds me of how Rob looked in the St. Elmo's Fire/About Last Night era...yum!)

 

[getReal]

Here is the thing that might save her: Travis kept sleeping with her even after she had shown obvious signs that she was unstable. Most men would have run a mile and not responded to it .. Travis on the other hand argued with her about it and ended their official relationship, yet took it underground so they could keep sleeping with each other. The fact that this is what led up to the crime might just get her LWOP instead of the DP because there is some provocation in that. I can only assume the reason Travis did continue on is because he enjoyed the sex so much, but he should have known that Jodi was obviously interested in a lot more than just sex with him and withdrawn from her and found another sexual partner who was not as vulnerable and disturbed.

The dilemma for Travis was that nice marriage-material Mormon girls must be virgins. JA disqualified herself by being so sexually available to him.

 

[MandyLeigh]

She is not capable of any emotion unless it has to do with her, IMO.

She is vile, empty and satisfied. She will feast on the images of Travis' suffering and death for the rest of her (hopefully brief) life. She relished every moment and will relish it in the telling on the stand and until the day she dies, no matter what her purported "emotion".

MOO

In the video that I had linked and was thanking another member for showing, I did see emotion. Slicing him from ear to ear did disturb her and I am sure she feels very sorry for herself that it does. I'm sure she is still angry at Travis for forcing her to go to such lengths by surviving as long as he did.

A normal person would be over taken by the emotions of their memory of just 1 horrific moment. In that video Jodi got upset when the true parts came to mind but she can compartmentalize, shut it right off and concentrate on the lie that needs to go in between. I can see it just by her animated emotions which stop when the lies come in.

Again I do feel she is sick, twisted, evil etc... however she is capable of emotions but it has to be really bad (like decapitating Travis) and she will always blame another, even the victim. Nothing is Jodi's fault. Not even her own emotions. Those rare ones that break through that dark mind of hers.