my2sense
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We won't ever know for sure, but I agree with you 100%. That is my guess as well.
jodi arias TAKES THE STAND FOR 13TH DAY #63 *may contain graphic and adult content*
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We won't ever know for sure, but I agree with you 100%. That is my guess as well.
gitana1
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No ma'm. casey anthony got off because her jury was heavily sequestered, desperate to get out of there and panicked about having to stay sequestered for another 7 weeks or so.
Plus, they misunderstood reasonable doubt, as post comments by two jurors indicated.
Did you watch the States CIC? It was all credible evidence. Every lie presented in this case came out of the defendants mouth. From June 10, 2008 when she called Detective Flores through today's cross every lie was told by only one person, Arias.
Pink Panther
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Nah. Sorry but I disagree. She finally managed to finish High School and as a 30 year old adult figured out that she needed glasses thanks to being in prison with full privileges. She could well go on to get multiple degrees and will most likely get the full benefit package while in there. She tried to make a cute comment today about the fact that TA's closet was about the same size as her cell. Her bedroom at her Grandmother's house didn't look much bigger either. She will thrive in LWOP. I agree with TA's sister Tanisha. At least on DP, she will be very limited in her social engagements. At least that.
moo
ETA - Let's be honest here. DP isn't really death...She'll have about 20 years to appeal before anything ever happens. (Lots of fun for her.) At the very least, she should live a somewhat "limited" life.
elizabethie
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if you start at about 0:20:40 in tawnidilly's video:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR-2V-ygr0A"]Jodi Arias Murder Trial Day 25. Afternoon session. Complete - YouTube[/ame]
nurmi is all SMILES at 0:21:09. havin' a good old time... it's just so inappropriate on so many levels....
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR-2V-ygr0A"]Jodi Arias Murder Trial Day 25. Afternoon session. Complete - YouTube[/ame]
nurmi is all SMILES at 0:21:09. havin' a good old time... it's just so inappropriate on so many levels....
M: Ma'am take a look at exhibit 78. and, uh, you indicated that you were in this vicinity here with your head in this direction when Mr. Alexander was in this vicinity sort of next to you, correct?
A: Yes
M: And you indicated that you were able to get up, right?
A: Yes
M: He was within a foot of you, wasn't he?
A: That sounds right, I don't know, but that sounds right.
M: Well he was in an arm's length, he could have touched you if he wanted to, right?
A: I think so, he would have had to reach down, I guess.
M: Pardon. I can't hear you, pull the microphone up or
A: He would have to reach down because I was on the ground but he was within arm's reach.
M: Or, he could have kicked you if he wanted to, he was that close.
A: Yes, he was that close
M: And you were able to get up, right?
A: After rolling, I got up.
M: So you rolled, then right?
A: Yes
M: You were able to get up
A: Yes
M: And he was standing right there
A: In the same place, but I pulled away
M: And you began to run, right?
A: Yes
M: And he began to run after you, correct?
A: I heard his footsteps, I didn't look.
M: You didn't tell us about, in fact when you testified prior to trial you told us that you didn't know if he was coming after you.
A: prior to trial?
M: Prior, this morning when you testified . Do you remember testifying this morning?
A: Yeah, I didn't know for certain, cause I didn't look back.
M: Ma'am my question to you is do you remember testifying this morning?
A: Yes
M: And remember we discussed this issue about going down the highway, do you remember that?
A: Yes
M: And you had no idea where he was.
N: Objection
J: Overruled you may answer
A: I didn't say that
M: You said that you didn't know if he followed you because you weren't paying attention, do you remember that?
A: Um, I no I don't remember saying I didn't know, I remember saying I wasn't sure.
M: And that you didn't know, you said that you didn't hear him. You didn't say anything about hearing him, did you?
A: I didn't say that I heard him, I didn't say that I didn't hear him.
M: So you're now saying that you did hear him coming after you, right?
A: I'm saying I thought I heard footsteps coming after me.
M: Well, when you said you think it implies that you're not sure. Did you or did you not hear footsteps going down the hallway
A: I think I did.
M: Okay so you heard footsteps, that means he's running after you doesn't it.
A: That's what I believed
M: All we care about is what you believe in so you say that you hear his footsteps, right?
A: Yes
M: So he is coming after you, right?
A: Yes he is
M: Makes you scared, right?
A: Very
M: And you're saying that this individual that's in shape is not able to catch you before you turn the corner to go into the closet
A: He did not
M: That's what you're saying that he wasn't fast enough to do it, right?
A: Um, that's right
M: And you slammed the door, right?
A: I did
M: You can't see through the door, right?
A: That's correct
M: So how do you know he's still mad?
A: Cause Travis never calmed down that quickly.
M: Ma'am you couldn't see through the door at his expression on his face, could you?
A: That's correct
M: You couldn't see his eyes, correct?
A: correct
M: and so you're inside this closet, right?
A: Yes
M: And you don't know what he's doing outside according to you, right?
A: That's right
M: So even though you don't know what he's doing outside, you claim you go for a weapon, right?
A: Not immediately, my thought was to run through the other door first.
M: So then you sad around and waited, there was a period of time here you waited?
A: No, it all happened very quickly
M: okay well then I thought you said that you thought, or that you took some time to think this out.
A: It was like instantaneous, I thought as soon as I slammed the door I was gonna run through the other door and in a split second, I realized where the gun was and I went to grab it so I could protect myself.
M: So you're inside this closet, right? And you're ahead of him, aren't you. In other words he's on the other side of the door.
A: that was my thought
M: Maam I'm not asking you what your thinking was, I'm asking you if it was true that he was outside the door.
A: Well, I don't know where he was, I shut the door
M: Well, he was somewhere in the bedroom, right?
A: I don't know, he could have been in the bedroom or running down the hallway to meet me at the other door.
M: Bottom line is he wasn't in the closet with you is what you're telling us.
A: Yes that's right
M: And you don't know what he's doing during that period of time that he's out there, right?
A: Um, I
M: Yes or no, do you know what he's doing during while he's out there?
A: Specify which period of time your referring to.
M: The period of time when you're not seeing him,you don't know what he's doing
A: That's correct.
M: and this is a period of time that allows you for contemplation or to think, right?
A: Um, if I was in my right mind, yes
M: Well, I'm not asking you if you were in your right mind, was I
A: Um, no
M: I was asking you whether or not you had time to think.
N: Objection, asked and answered
J: Overruled
A: Um, I may have had time, but
M: Well didn't you just tell us just now that you sat, well not sat, that you thought about what you were going to do next ?
A: Yes, I thought of getting away
M: So the answer is yes you did think, right?
A: Yes
M: And, in fact when he was, when you were doing this thinking, he wasn't in the closet, right?
A: Um, no he was opening the door
M: Ma'am, he wasn't in the closet, was he?
A: Um he was opening the door and entering the closet.
M: I'm not asking if he was opening the door. The way he told the story just now, you slammed the door, didn't you just say that?
A: Yes I did
M: And when you slammed the door you didn't get his foot, right? He didn't have his foot in the door?
A: No
M: He didn't have his hand somewhere so the door didn't close, right?
A: That's right
M: The door closed, right?
A: Yes
M: And for whatever period of time, he was outside, right?
A: I guess because it opened pretty much right away.
M: Ma'am at this time you were ahead of him in the closet according to you.
A: That's right
M: You had enough time to grab the door, right?
A: No, I slammed it.
M: You touched the door , right?
A: Yes
M: And you slammed the door, right?
A: Yes
M: It shut, right?
A: Yes
M: at that point he wasn't in the enclosed area with you, correct?
A: In that very second, no, he was not.
M: You could have continued running out this door here, couldnt' you?
A: Yes
M: You chose not to because you thought about it, right?
A: Um, I don't remember really thinking, I just remember being scared and trying to put distance.
M: You could have run out and put distance between, to use your term, between you and him by running out this door, right?
A; That's right
M: And if you would have ran out this door you could have then run down the hallway, right, again, right?
A: that's possible
M: Well, it's something you could have done, right?
A: Um, if he hadn't stopped me
M: Well, wait a minute you you were alone in the closet after you slammed the door for a period of time, a brief period of time, whatever it was, right?
A: Um, yes
M: And during this brief period of time when this person who was obviously in shape can not catch you , you could have run around and gone down the hallway, correct?
A: Um, not if I'm trying to keep him away from me
M: Ma'am you could have done that couldn't you? You were alone in the closet, right?
A: Yes I was
M: And so you're alone in the closet nothing was stopping you from heading for this exit door. I know it's a door, let's just call it a door.
A: OK
M: you could have then taken another right, you were familiar with his house
A: Yes
M: You were familiar with the fact you could have gone down the hallway , right?
A: Yes
M: And then you could have taken a quick left and you would have been down the stairs, right?
A: No, I probably would have been dead
M: Ma'am you could have done that couldn't you?
A: Not unless I was suicidal
M: You're saying that all of the sudden between the door to the closet, the one that's in the bedroom and the one that's in the bathroom, he suddenly got a lot faster then he did from this area here going all the way around. Ma'am, you're saying he all of a sudden got a lot faster, right?
N: Objection, argumentative, mischaracterizes her testimony
J: Restate your question
M: Ma'am the distance from here all the way around the door is further than the distance from where you were standing inside of the closet from this door here, isn't it?
A: yes
M: So you could have continued running through here, couldn't you?
A: yes
M: He wasn't in the closet at that time, was he?
A: Um, he was by that point, yes
M: And so he's now in the closet and you're saying he's now in the closet and he allows you, according to you , because now he's in the closet, he allows you to go up and get the gun. That's what you're saying. He's now in the closet, right?
A: He entered the closet at the point that I was jumping on the shelf.
M: So the door is opening then, not when you told us before but when you're going up onto the shelf?
A: yes when I told you before which was almost immediately after.
M: Ma'am my question to you is when you went in you were able to have time to go towards the shelves right?
A: Yes
M: And you just told us now that during that period of time whatever it was he was not in the closet.
A: At that very moment, he had not opened the door.
M: So then you just said you were going to the closet area to get the gun, right?
A: The corner
M: The corner, right And as you are in the corner, he's coming in through the door, right?
A: Yes, as I'm beginning to step up on the shelf.
M: Right, you're stepping up and this person who's coming after you and is angry has now given you more time and you now have more time to get the gun from up in the closet, right?
A: Um, yes that's correct
M: Ma'am, this is a very small closet, isn't yet
A: No, it's bigger than the cell I live in.
M: It's bigger than what
A: It's bigger than the cell that I live in, it's not a small closet
M: Ma'am we don't want to know where you live in.
A: I'm just using it for reference, it's not small.
M: Ma'am, we don't did I ask you where you were living?
A: No
M: We're clear, right, We do not want to know where you're living right now
A: Ok, sorry
M: No need to be. Take that attitude that, is there an issue with you answering the questions as they're posed?
A: Sometimes, but I'm trying to answer them the best I can
M: So is it an attitude issue with you then?
N: Objection, argumentative, move to strike
J: Overruled you may answer
A: I don't think it is.
M: So this closet is a small closet, isn't it?
A: no
N: Objection, asked and answered
J: Overruled
A: Not in my opinion
M: It's actually about 11 ½ feet isn't from the door over there to this door here, isn't it?
A: I don't know but that sounds somewhat accurate, I would have said 12.
M::I couldn't hear you, I can't hear you
A: It sounds somewhat accurate, but I don't know really know as far as distance how long 11 ½ feet is.
M: Well then let's take a look at exhibit #249 See the measurement of the line from here to there, you see what the measurement is? It's 11 feet 4 inches so it's a little bit over 11 ½ feet long, right?
A: Around that, yes
M: So you're in this closet and when you're in this closet you reach up to get this gun right?
A: Yes
M: And on direct examination do you remember looking at this photograph which is exhibit #70?
A: Yes
M: And you indicated that the gun is up in this corner here, right?
A: Yes
M: And that's a pretty high shelf, isn't it ma'am?
A: No
M: How tall are you ma'am?
A: 5 foot 5 ½ last I checked
M: And this shelf, you see that there,
A: Yes
M: it goes almost to the roof, see that?
A: Yes
M: You see that thing to the right, there?
A: Yes
M: It is higher than the door, isn't it?
A: Yes
M: You're saying that standing there in front of that shelf you could, at 5 foot 6 you could reach up and grab that top there?
A: No, that's not what I'm saying?
M: In fact you have to get up on the shelves to do it, don't you?
A: Yes, I just got up on one
M: Yes or no?
A: Yes
M: And when you get up on the shelves, it isn't a situation where you can just get up with one hand, isn't it?
A: I did, I
M: So you were able to somehow put one foot on one of these shelves and without putting any other, which hand did you grab it with?
A: I don't remember
M: Alright with the hand that was free that you didn't not use to grab that you were able to just put one foot up there, grab the gun even though you said it was way in the back?
A: It's just sitting right in the corner, not way in the back, there is no back that's just the wall..
M: Well, here's the back part right here that's the term that you used
A: Yes
M: So you're saying that it's in that corner you can according to you put your foot on one of these shelves without disturbing anything else reach out and grab the gun.
A: That's what I did
M: Without disturbing anything else in that closet, right?
A: No, my foot went right on the edge
M: Pardon?
A: My food went right on the edge
M: And you didn't disturb any of the shoes, right?
A: No
M: you didn't disturb any of the pants there, right?
A: Right
M: You didn't disturb and of the ties that are there? Nothing was disturbed.
A: Um, no, yes that's right nothing was disturbed
M: If we take a look at exhibit number 69 this gives us a further out view, doesn't it?
A: yes
M: And it also includes the bench seat, right?
A: Yes
M: Nothing is disturbed there, right?
A: That's right
M: Yet you're saying that this very angry man it coming through here coming after your, right?
A: Yes
M: And that he's very upset about his camera and you're able to get the gun up here, right?
A: That's right
M: Is this the same gun that you told the detective he didn't own?
A: That's right
M: You can't have it both ways ma'am. Back then on June 10, 2008 you did say he did not own a gun, correct?
A: Yes I did
M: and no one was even consulting you about the investigation, you initiated that contact, right?
A: That's right
M: What you are telling us today is to be more than fair, inconsistent with that statement, right?
A: That's right
M: And this thing or the statement about the gun, this didn't that you said involved the gun didn't come for years after you had been arrested correct?
A: Yes years it took me to admit it
M: So the answer is yes it came years later, right?
A: Yes
M: We've reviewed a lot of text messages we've reviewed a lot or some email correspondence and even your journal. And the text messages there was some exchanges between you and Mr. Alexander could be defined as heated, correct?
A: Yes
M: You guys were fighting at some of these point, right?
A: I would say arguing, yes
M: Alright, arguing and nowhere in those text messages does he ever threaten you physically, does he?
A: Um, no he doesn't
M: He doesn't does he?
A: That's correct
M: And there's no email correspondence into which he's threatening you correct?
A: um, I'm trying to think. We talk about it but there are no threats.
M: There are not threats .And there's no police report, because you never called the police.
A: That's right
M: There are no individuals who have come in to say they saw him mistreat you, correct?
A: Physically, that's right
M: Well, no, you're saying that there are individuals that came in here that said he mistreated you some other way?
N: Objection
J: Overruled
A: Yeah, I do.
M: Okay, Dan Freeman testified, right?
A: Yes
M: He indicated that he treated you appropriately, didn't he say that?
A: He did say that, he also said the opposite.
M: And in fact there was only one fight where he was present, right?
A: Yes
M: This is the trip to Havasupai
A: Yes, I was mortified by it about it
M: Pardon
A: Yes, I remember that.
M: And do you remember that the reason there was a fight was that he was trying to make the trip and enjoyable one , right?
A: I don't remember Dan saying that
M: Remember he said that it needed to be enjoyable and he needed to take out whatever heavy products were in your backpack, do you remember that?
A: I remember that's what started the argument
M: Right, and you got mad at him, right?
A: No, he got mad at me.
M: Oh so Dan Freeman got mad at you?
A: No, I thought you were talking about Travis
M: No, I'm talking about Dan Freeman
A: No, I've never been mad at Dan Freeman
M: I'm not asking if you were mad at Dan Freeman, Dan Freeman did not get mad at you then, did he?
A: No, he didn't
M: And in fact, he indicated he was just trying to make the trip enjoyable because these backpacks can get heavy, right?
A: Yes, something to that effect.
M: And somehow , given what Dan Freeman did, it became a fight between you and Mr. Alexander, right?
A: It sparked a fight, yes
M: And the way you phrased it it was Mr. Alexander's fault, right?
A: That time, yeah it was his fault.
M: Even though you're the person who's upset at having to conform to something that someone else wanted you to do, right?
A: I wasn't that upset
M: Well, you started the fight, not Mr. Alexander like you're saying, correct?
A: no, I took the backpack upstairs and he came in and started screaming at me.
M: So, you didn't your actions in no way, shape, or form ma'am contributed to the problems that happened that morning before you went to Havasupai
A: No, they definitely contributed.
M: They started it didn't they?
A: Um, I didn't think we were arguing so I don't know.
M: Your actions were the ones that started this whole fracas, weren't they?
A: I guess, I
M: No, don't say that you guess ma'am, you were there, right?
A: Yes I was there
M: And you know how the fight started, right?
A: I do
M: And it was because you had an attitude because Daniel Freeman had got into your stuff and removed items, right?
N: Objection
J: Overruled you may answer
A: That's not when I would consider the argument began.
M: Alright, you don't consider that. In fact, though, we look at the text messages and remember talking about whether or not there was any indication that Mr. Alexander ever threatened physical harm and you said no, right?
A: Yes
M: But you did, you threatened physical harm to him, didn't you?
A: As a joke I think I did once
M: No, yes or no. Didn't you threatened him with physical harm, yes or no?
A: Um, I don't remember ever threatening Travis with physical harm ever.
M: Okay let's take a look at one of the exhibits you entered, exhibit 443. Starting at the top. He says to you it gets old when you dramatize everything. You stress me out on a regular basis. You have 27 hours and your moaning about making PC. You shouldn't hang up on someone trying to help you. Now you are on your own. That's what it says, right?
A: Yes
M: That is not a happy text message is it?
A: No, it isn't
M: That is not a joking text message, is it
A: Yes
M: And then you say nor should you have to
A: No that's nor should you have to, yes.
M: And then you say after that within seconds I wanted to tell u something about today. It's important and time is of the essence, right?
A: Yes
M: That's what you tell him
A: Yes
M: His response to you too bad, you shouldn't have hung up on me, right?
A: Yes
M: Still not a joking conversation, right?
A: yes
M: Still a fight or an argument via text message right?
A: Yes
M: and then you say It was for YOUR own benefitnot mine. I only wanted to tell you because I care about you, right?
A: Yes
M: So now the mood is changing, you only did this because you cared about him, right?
A: Yes
M: And so hanging up on him is cuz you really love him, right?
A: I guess, indirectly it could be.
M: Okay, so you show love by hanging up on him in this circumstance, right?
A: If I didn't love him, the swearing would hurt as bad so I wouldn't hang up on him, so yes.
M: Ma'am you hung up on him, right?
A: Yes I did
M: and you hung up on him because you love him, right? That's what you're saying.
A: I'm saying in and indirect way it could be construed that way.
M: So the answer's yes, correct?
A: that's not the direct reason
M: But, you hung up on him and you're saying you hung up on him because you love him, yes or no?
A: Put plainly like that I would have to say no.
M: And then he says whatever Jodi doesn't he?
A: Yes
M: He's upset at that point, right?
A: I don't know.
M: You think he's happy there?
N: Objection calls for speculation
J: Overruled, you may answer
A: No, I don't think that
M: Well the first text message was at 16:53 and we understand that's 7 hours ahead. The text message where he says Whatever Jodi is at 16:57, do you see that?
A: Uh, yes
M: And so, roughly about four minutes later, right?
A: Yes
M: And you told us that you guys were fighting in this conversation, right?
A: Um, yes we were arguing
M: Yes, during this 4 minutes that it takes to text back and forth, right? So it's not a joking conversation, right?
A: Um not at this point
M: No, and then you answer almost immediately, I'll whatever you in the nose, Travis
A: Yes
M: You think that's funny, right, that's a joke
A: Yeah that was his joke that he used to say.
M: what
A: That was his joke that he used to say.
M: And you think that was funny
A: I was hoping he would think it was funny
M: Ma'am I'm asking you if you think that's the joke.
A: The whatever you in the nose?
M: I'll whatever you in the nose, Travis , right
A: Well, that was my goal, so at the time yeah
M: So you thought it was a joke
A: Yeah
M: Even though you were in the middle of a fight
A: I'm trying to diffuse his anger.
M: That's not what it indicates there, Travis I'm trying to diffuse the anger
N: Objection, it's argumentative judge, he's already said
M: I'm going to punch you in the nose
J: Overruled, you may answer
A: Well not if you know Travis
M: Yes or no
A: You're wrong
M: Well, let's look at the next message. It says I was just trying to help u out. U've hng up on me sevral times b4 even after I've asked you not 2. It's reasonable that I shdn't tolerate swearing, but again I'm very sorry have a great day. You're still fighting in between there, aren't you?
A: No, I'm trying to ameliorate the situation.
M: The fight isn't over, that's why you're apologizing, right?
A: I guess
M: So it's not a joke, right?
A: No it was a joke
A: Yes
M: And you indicated that you were able to get up, right?
A: Yes
M: He was within a foot of you, wasn't he?
A: That sounds right, I don't know, but that sounds right.
M: Well he was in an arm's length, he could have touched you if he wanted to, right?
A: I think so, he would have had to reach down, I guess.
M: Pardon. I can't hear you, pull the microphone up or
A: He would have to reach down because I was on the ground but he was within arm's reach.
M: Or, he could have kicked you if he wanted to, he was that close.
A: Yes, he was that close
M: And you were able to get up, right?
A: After rolling, I got up.
M: So you rolled, then right?
A: Yes
M: You were able to get up
A: Yes
M: And he was standing right there
A: In the same place, but I pulled away
M: And you began to run, right?
A: Yes
M: And he began to run after you, correct?
A: I heard his footsteps, I didn't look.
M: You didn't tell us about, in fact when you testified prior to trial you told us that you didn't know if he was coming after you.
A: prior to trial?
M: Prior, this morning when you testified . Do you remember testifying this morning?
A: Yeah, I didn't know for certain, cause I didn't look back.
M: Ma'am my question to you is do you remember testifying this morning?
A: Yes
M: And remember we discussed this issue about going down the highway, do you remember that?
A: Yes
M: And you had no idea where he was.
N: Objection
J: Overruled you may answer
A: I didn't say that
M: You said that you didn't know if he followed you because you weren't paying attention, do you remember that?
A: Um, I no I don't remember saying I didn't know, I remember saying I wasn't sure.
M: And that you didn't know, you said that you didn't hear him. You didn't say anything about hearing him, did you?
A: I didn't say that I heard him, I didn't say that I didn't hear him.
M: So you're now saying that you did hear him coming after you, right?
A: I'm saying I thought I heard footsteps coming after me.
M: Well, when you said you think it implies that you're not sure. Did you or did you not hear footsteps going down the hallway
A: I think I did.
M: Okay so you heard footsteps, that means he's running after you doesn't it.
A: That's what I believed
M: All we care about is what you believe in so you say that you hear his footsteps, right?
A: Yes
M: So he is coming after you, right?
A: Yes he is
M: Makes you scared, right?
A: Very
M: And you're saying that this individual that's in shape is not able to catch you before you turn the corner to go into the closet
A: He did not
M: That's what you're saying that he wasn't fast enough to do it, right?
A: Um, that's right
M: And you slammed the door, right?
A: I did
M: You can't see through the door, right?
A: That's correct
M: So how do you know he's still mad?
A: Cause Travis never calmed down that quickly.
M: Ma'am you couldn't see through the door at his expression on his face, could you?
A: That's correct
M: You couldn't see his eyes, correct?
A: correct
M: and so you're inside this closet, right?
A: Yes
M: And you don't know what he's doing outside according to you, right?
A: That's right
M: So even though you don't know what he's doing outside, you claim you go for a weapon, right?
A: Not immediately, my thought was to run through the other door first.
M: So then you sad around and waited, there was a period of time here you waited?
A: No, it all happened very quickly
M: okay well then I thought you said that you thought, or that you took some time to think this out.
A: It was like instantaneous, I thought as soon as I slammed the door I was gonna run through the other door and in a split second, I realized where the gun was and I went to grab it so I could protect myself.
M: So you're inside this closet, right? And you're ahead of him, aren't you. In other words he's on the other side of the door.
A: that was my thought
M: Maam I'm not asking you what your thinking was, I'm asking you if it was true that he was outside the door.
A: Well, I don't know where he was, I shut the door
M: Well, he was somewhere in the bedroom, right?
A: I don't know, he could have been in the bedroom or running down the hallway to meet me at the other door.
M: Bottom line is he wasn't in the closet with you is what you're telling us.
A: Yes that's right
M: And you don't know what he's doing during that period of time that he's out there, right?
A: Um, I
M: Yes or no, do you know what he's doing during while he's out there?
A: Specify which period of time your referring to.
M: The period of time when you're not seeing him,you don't know what he's doing
A: That's correct.
M: and this is a period of time that allows you for contemplation or to think, right?
A: Um, if I was in my right mind, yes
M: Well, I'm not asking you if you were in your right mind, was I
A: Um, no
M: I was asking you whether or not you had time to think.
N: Objection, asked and answered
J: Overruled
A: Um, I may have had time, but
M: Well didn't you just tell us just now that you sat, well not sat, that you thought about what you were going to do next ?
A: Yes, I thought of getting away
M: So the answer is yes you did think, right?
A: Yes
M: And, in fact when he was, when you were doing this thinking, he wasn't in the closet, right?
A: Um, no he was opening the door
M: Ma'am, he wasn't in the closet, was he?
A: Um he was opening the door and entering the closet.
M: I'm not asking if he was opening the door. The way he told the story just now, you slammed the door, didn't you just say that?
A: Yes I did
M: And when you slammed the door you didn't get his foot, right? He didn't have his foot in the door?
A: No
M: He didn't have his hand somewhere so the door didn't close, right?
A: That's right
M: The door closed, right?
A: Yes
M: And for whatever period of time, he was outside, right?
A: I guess because it opened pretty much right away.
M: Ma'am at this time you were ahead of him in the closet according to you.
A: That's right
M: You had enough time to grab the door, right?
A: No, I slammed it.
M: You touched the door , right?
A: Yes
M: And you slammed the door, right?
A: Yes
M: It shut, right?
A: Yes
M: at that point he wasn't in the enclosed area with you, correct?
A: In that very second, no, he was not.
M: You could have continued running out this door here, couldnt' you?
A: Yes
M: You chose not to because you thought about it, right?
A: Um, I don't remember really thinking, I just remember being scared and trying to put distance.
M: You could have run out and put distance between, to use your term, between you and him by running out this door, right?
A; That's right
M: And if you would have ran out this door you could have then run down the hallway, right, again, right?
A: that's possible
M: Well, it's something you could have done, right?
A: Um, if he hadn't stopped me
M: Well, wait a minute you you were alone in the closet after you slammed the door for a period of time, a brief period of time, whatever it was, right?
A: Um, yes
M: And during this brief period of time when this person who was obviously in shape can not catch you , you could have run around and gone down the hallway, correct?
A: Um, not if I'm trying to keep him away from me
M: Ma'am you could have done that couldn't you? You were alone in the closet, right?
A: Yes I was
M: And so you're alone in the closet nothing was stopping you from heading for this exit door. I know it's a door, let's just call it a door.
A: OK
M: you could have then taken another right, you were familiar with his house
A: Yes
M: You were familiar with the fact you could have gone down the hallway , right?
A: Yes
M: And then you could have taken a quick left and you would have been down the stairs, right?
A: No, I probably would have been dead
M: Ma'am you could have done that couldn't you?
A: Not unless I was suicidal
M: You're saying that all of the sudden between the door to the closet, the one that's in the bedroom and the one that's in the bathroom, he suddenly got a lot faster then he did from this area here going all the way around. Ma'am, you're saying he all of a sudden got a lot faster, right?
N: Objection, argumentative, mischaracterizes her testimony
J: Restate your question
M: Ma'am the distance from here all the way around the door is further than the distance from where you were standing inside of the closet from this door here, isn't it?
A: yes
M: So you could have continued running through here, couldn't you?
A: yes
M: He wasn't in the closet at that time, was he?
A: Um, he was by that point, yes
M: And so he's now in the closet and you're saying he's now in the closet and he allows you, according to you , because now he's in the closet, he allows you to go up and get the gun. That's what you're saying. He's now in the closet, right?
A: He entered the closet at the point that I was jumping on the shelf.
M: So the door is opening then, not when you told us before but when you're going up onto the shelf?
A: yes when I told you before which was almost immediately after.
M: Ma'am my question to you is when you went in you were able to have time to go towards the shelves right?
A: Yes
M: And you just told us now that during that period of time whatever it was he was not in the closet.
A: At that very moment, he had not opened the door.
M: So then you just said you were going to the closet area to get the gun, right?
A: The corner
M: The corner, right And as you are in the corner, he's coming in through the door, right?
A: Yes, as I'm beginning to step up on the shelf.
M: Right, you're stepping up and this person who's coming after you and is angry has now given you more time and you now have more time to get the gun from up in the closet, right?
A: Um, yes that's correct
M: Ma'am, this is a very small closet, isn't yet
A: No, it's bigger than the cell I live in.
M: It's bigger than what
A: It's bigger than the cell that I live in, it's not a small closet
M: Ma'am we don't want to know where you live in.
A: I'm just using it for reference, it's not small.
M: Ma'am, we don't did I ask you where you were living?
A: No
M: We're clear, right, We do not want to know where you're living right now
A: Ok, sorry
M: No need to be. Take that attitude that, is there an issue with you answering the questions as they're posed?
A: Sometimes, but I'm trying to answer them the best I can
M: So is it an attitude issue with you then?
N: Objection, argumentative, move to strike
J: Overruled you may answer
A: I don't think it is.
M: So this closet is a small closet, isn't it?
A: no
N: Objection, asked and answered
J: Overruled
A: Not in my opinion
M: It's actually about 11 ½ feet isn't from the door over there to this door here, isn't it?
A: I don't know but that sounds somewhat accurate, I would have said 12.
M::I couldn't hear you, I can't hear you
A: It sounds somewhat accurate, but I don't know really know as far as distance how long 11 ½ feet is.
M: Well then let's take a look at exhibit #249 See the measurement of the line from here to there, you see what the measurement is? It's 11 feet 4 inches so it's a little bit over 11 ½ feet long, right?
A: Around that, yes
M: So you're in this closet and when you're in this closet you reach up to get this gun right?
A: Yes
M: And on direct examination do you remember looking at this photograph which is exhibit #70?
A: Yes
M: And you indicated that the gun is up in this corner here, right?
A: Yes
M: And that's a pretty high shelf, isn't it ma'am?
A: No
M: How tall are you ma'am?
A: 5 foot 5 ½ last I checked
M: And this shelf, you see that there,
A: Yes
M: it goes almost to the roof, see that?
A: Yes
M: You see that thing to the right, there?
A: Yes
M: It is higher than the door, isn't it?
A: Yes
M: You're saying that standing there in front of that shelf you could, at 5 foot 6 you could reach up and grab that top there?
A: No, that's not what I'm saying?
M: In fact you have to get up on the shelves to do it, don't you?
A: Yes, I just got up on one
M: Yes or no?
A: Yes
M: And when you get up on the shelves, it isn't a situation where you can just get up with one hand, isn't it?
A: I did, I
M: So you were able to somehow put one foot on one of these shelves and without putting any other, which hand did you grab it with?
A: I don't remember
M: Alright with the hand that was free that you didn't not use to grab that you were able to just put one foot up there, grab the gun even though you said it was way in the back?
A: It's just sitting right in the corner, not way in the back, there is no back that's just the wall..
M: Well, here's the back part right here that's the term that you used
A: Yes
M: So you're saying that it's in that corner you can according to you put your foot on one of these shelves without disturbing anything else reach out and grab the gun.
A: That's what I did
M: Without disturbing anything else in that closet, right?
A: No, my foot went right on the edge
M: Pardon?
A: My food went right on the edge
M: And you didn't disturb any of the shoes, right?
A: No
M: you didn't disturb any of the pants there, right?
A: Right
M: You didn't disturb and of the ties that are there? Nothing was disturbed.
A: Um, no, yes that's right nothing was disturbed
M: If we take a look at exhibit number 69 this gives us a further out view, doesn't it?
A: yes
M: And it also includes the bench seat, right?
A: Yes
M: Nothing is disturbed there, right?
A: That's right
M: Yet you're saying that this very angry man it coming through here coming after your, right?
A: Yes
M: And that he's very upset about his camera and you're able to get the gun up here, right?
A: That's right
M: Is this the same gun that you told the detective he didn't own?
A: That's right
M: You can't have it both ways ma'am. Back then on June 10, 2008 you did say he did not own a gun, correct?
A: Yes I did
M: and no one was even consulting you about the investigation, you initiated that contact, right?
A: That's right
M: What you are telling us today is to be more than fair, inconsistent with that statement, right?
A: That's right
M: And this thing or the statement about the gun, this didn't that you said involved the gun didn't come for years after you had been arrested correct?
A: Yes years it took me to admit it
M: So the answer is yes it came years later, right?
A: Yes
M: We've reviewed a lot of text messages we've reviewed a lot or some email correspondence and even your journal. And the text messages there was some exchanges between you and Mr. Alexander could be defined as heated, correct?
A: Yes
M: You guys were fighting at some of these point, right?
A: I would say arguing, yes
M: Alright, arguing and nowhere in those text messages does he ever threaten you physically, does he?
A: Um, no he doesn't
M: He doesn't does he?
A: That's correct
M: And there's no email correspondence into which he's threatening you correct?
A: um, I'm trying to think. We talk about it but there are no threats.
M: There are not threats .And there's no police report, because you never called the police.
A: That's right
M: There are no individuals who have come in to say they saw him mistreat you, correct?
A: Physically, that's right
M: Well, no, you're saying that there are individuals that came in here that said he mistreated you some other way?
N: Objection
J: Overruled
A: Yeah, I do.
M: Okay, Dan Freeman testified, right?
A: Yes
M: He indicated that he treated you appropriately, didn't he say that?
A: He did say that, he also said the opposite.
M: And in fact there was only one fight where he was present, right?
A: Yes
M: This is the trip to Havasupai
A: Yes, I was mortified by it about it
M: Pardon
A: Yes, I remember that.
M: And do you remember that the reason there was a fight was that he was trying to make the trip and enjoyable one , right?
A: I don't remember Dan saying that
M: Remember he said that it needed to be enjoyable and he needed to take out whatever heavy products were in your backpack, do you remember that?
A: I remember that's what started the argument
M: Right, and you got mad at him, right?
A: No, he got mad at me.
M: Oh so Dan Freeman got mad at you?
A: No, I thought you were talking about Travis
M: No, I'm talking about Dan Freeman
A: No, I've never been mad at Dan Freeman
M: I'm not asking if you were mad at Dan Freeman, Dan Freeman did not get mad at you then, did he?
A: No, he didn't
M: And in fact, he indicated he was just trying to make the trip enjoyable because these backpacks can get heavy, right?
A: Yes, something to that effect.
M: And somehow , given what Dan Freeman did, it became a fight between you and Mr. Alexander, right?
A: It sparked a fight, yes
M: And the way you phrased it it was Mr. Alexander's fault, right?
A: That time, yeah it was his fault.
M: Even though you're the person who's upset at having to conform to something that someone else wanted you to do, right?
A: I wasn't that upset
M: Well, you started the fight, not Mr. Alexander like you're saying, correct?
A: no, I took the backpack upstairs and he came in and started screaming at me.
M: So, you didn't your actions in no way, shape, or form ma'am contributed to the problems that happened that morning before you went to Havasupai
A: No, they definitely contributed.
M: They started it didn't they?
A: Um, I didn't think we were arguing so I don't know.
M: Your actions were the ones that started this whole fracas, weren't they?
A: I guess, I
M: No, don't say that you guess ma'am, you were there, right?
A: Yes I was there
M: And you know how the fight started, right?
A: I do
M: And it was because you had an attitude because Daniel Freeman had got into your stuff and removed items, right?
N: Objection
J: Overruled you may answer
A: That's not when I would consider the argument began.
M: Alright, you don't consider that. In fact, though, we look at the text messages and remember talking about whether or not there was any indication that Mr. Alexander ever threatened physical harm and you said no, right?
A: Yes
M: But you did, you threatened physical harm to him, didn't you?
A: As a joke I think I did once
M: No, yes or no. Didn't you threatened him with physical harm, yes or no?
A: Um, I don't remember ever threatening Travis with physical harm ever.
M: Okay let's take a look at one of the exhibits you entered, exhibit 443. Starting at the top. He says to you it gets old when you dramatize everything. You stress me out on a regular basis. You have 27 hours and your moaning about making PC. You shouldn't hang up on someone trying to help you. Now you are on your own. That's what it says, right?
A: Yes
M: That is not a happy text message is it?
A: No, it isn't
M: That is not a joking text message, is it
A: Yes
M: And then you say nor should you have to
A: No that's nor should you have to, yes.
M: And then you say after that within seconds I wanted to tell u something about today. It's important and time is of the essence, right?
A: Yes
M: That's what you tell him
A: Yes
M: His response to you too bad, you shouldn't have hung up on me, right?
A: Yes
M: Still not a joking conversation, right?
A: yes
M: Still a fight or an argument via text message right?
A: Yes
M: and then you say It was for YOUR own benefitnot mine. I only wanted to tell you because I care about you, right?
A: Yes
M: So now the mood is changing, you only did this because you cared about him, right?
A: Yes
M: And so hanging up on him is cuz you really love him, right?
A: I guess, indirectly it could be.
M: Okay, so you show love by hanging up on him in this circumstance, right?
A: If I didn't love him, the swearing would hurt as bad so I wouldn't hang up on him, so yes.
M: Ma'am you hung up on him, right?
A: Yes I did
M: and you hung up on him because you love him, right? That's what you're saying.
A: I'm saying in and indirect way it could be construed that way.
M: So the answer's yes, correct?
A: that's not the direct reason
M: But, you hung up on him and you're saying you hung up on him because you love him, yes or no?
A: Put plainly like that I would have to say no.
M: And then he says whatever Jodi doesn't he?
A: Yes
M: He's upset at that point, right?
A: I don't know.
M: You think he's happy there?
N: Objection calls for speculation
J: Overruled, you may answer
A: No, I don't think that
M: Well the first text message was at 16:53 and we understand that's 7 hours ahead. The text message where he says Whatever Jodi is at 16:57, do you see that?
A: Uh, yes
M: And so, roughly about four minutes later, right?
A: Yes
M: And you told us that you guys were fighting in this conversation, right?
A: Um, yes we were arguing
M: Yes, during this 4 minutes that it takes to text back and forth, right? So it's not a joking conversation, right?
A: Um not at this point
M: No, and then you answer almost immediately, I'll whatever you in the nose, Travis
A: Yes
M: You think that's funny, right, that's a joke
A: Yeah that was his joke that he used to say.
M: what
A: That was his joke that he used to say.
M: And you think that was funny
A: I was hoping he would think it was funny
M: Ma'am I'm asking you if you think that's the joke.
A: The whatever you in the nose?
M: I'll whatever you in the nose, Travis , right
A: Well, that was my goal, so at the time yeah
M: So you thought it was a joke
A: Yeah
M: Even though you were in the middle of a fight
A: I'm trying to diffuse his anger.
M: That's not what it indicates there, Travis I'm trying to diffuse the anger
N: Objection, it's argumentative judge, he's already said
M: I'm going to punch you in the nose
J: Overruled, you may answer
A: Well not if you know Travis
M: Yes or no
A: You're wrong
M: Well, let's look at the next message. It says I was just trying to help u out. U've hng up on me sevral times b4 even after I've asked you not 2. It's reasonable that I shdn't tolerate swearing, but again I'm very sorry have a great day. You're still fighting in between there, aren't you?
A: No, I'm trying to ameliorate the situation.
M: The fight isn't over, that's why you're apologizing, right?
A: I guess
M: So it's not a joke, right?
A: No it was a joke
JusticeJunkie
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I hope you don't quit posting.
ALL opinions are allowed and welcomed here, weather peeps agree or not.
elementary
No More Excuses
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The way he presented it to me, was that these photos weren't really inadvertant, she did on purpose.
Case 1: If her version (I know, I know)....the camera bounced and she ran and ran and shot him then FOG.......how/why was the camera moved if DV killing.
Case 2: If our versionfloorlaugh
Me too! Immediately the thought occurred to me when she agreed the photo of him sitting may not have been inadvertent. I brushed it away until you mentioned it.
Not only is she a sadist but it's possible she wanted memories of what she did (in her mind) so elegantly from life of Travis to his butchering. It makes me think she was obsessed with recording, looking at and erasing stuff. Her "dirty little secret".
Most of what she describes is like something out of a movie. It makes sense that she would want to make movies (photos) as well.
nightwatch
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where is this thread?
ForensicFemme
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Katiecoolady has just posted on the observation thread, fyi.
anagrammy
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I think we might have a fairly clear picture...
Half kidding - I'd pore over emails etc. if they released them to see just how far she took it - she pushes and pushes... she's relentless. Then she's passive aggressive... ugh. So creepy.
He sure was furious with her... yet she pretended like his real feelings didn't exist - until he agreed or apologized. I think when she realized Travis no longer cared, he was going to feel her wrath. She has to have the last word. Just watch her on cross! No one can tolerate that for very long, if at all.
I have a feeling Juan is demonstrating various behaviors of hers without drawing the conclusion rather allowing the jury to do that. He will tie it up with a bow in the summation.
He's creating a curiosity in the minds of the jurors (why is he asking about x? and why did he go there with y?) Then he slam-bang answers those questions at the very end.
These talking head attorneys are nowhere near his level, especially the one who says he would just go in there surgically. "You lied, you lied, you lied, she lies. Done."
Juan is doing what good writers do--he is showing what she is rather than saying it. Then when he wraps things up, he will show how the traits they observed fit into the crime scene--and one of them will be "she had to have the last word..."
Turnadot
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Here ya go
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200313"]A view from the inside: observations from our own court observers #2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
Zuri
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Conscious defibrillation IS very painful and may hurt more THAN a papercut
camcneishg
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Is the link working for everyone else? I can't get it to work. (Trying again)
http://sdcrimestoppers.wordpress.com/2012/07/10/robert-juarez’-murder-remains-unsolved-for-2-years/
Truth Detector
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You had to notice how clearly she answered questions while pretending to weep uncontrollably.
I think others have noted this as well.
Observer in AZ
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Oh I would have but it froze up with FBI Ransomware I couldn't (still haven't) been able to get out of the lock out page... that's why using my kindle.. didn't remember what pg of what thread it happened..
JaimeInLA
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I have tried 10 times & CANNOT get that link to open. Ugh!! What does it say? How was he killed? What do the comments say?!
TotallyObsessed
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You know, i think that if JA had told a story like this, it would have been more believable than the horse crap lie she ended up telling. People might have believed TA would have been furious over blackmail. Not over a camera being dropped.
And not that i believe he did anything "blackmail~able " OR that i even believe JA'S fictional account. I think she snuck back in and surprised him at gunpoint.
ILikeToBendPages
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Hi and welcome to all of our newbies, glad to see you post with us. We appreciate all opinions and ideas because it gives us other insight that we might not of noticed before.
Don't be suckered into namecalling. It will cost you your privilege of posting on Websleuths, not them.
We debate our different opinions, and we can chose to dismiss or ignore those that push buttons. Take a breath and walk it off. Internet discussion forums are not for everyone. So, please keep posting along with us. If anyone is banned let it be the other person.
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ILTBP
Don't be suckered into namecalling. It will cost you your privilege of posting on Websleuths, not them.
We debate our different opinions, and we can chose to dismiss or ignore those that push buttons. Take a breath and walk it off. Internet discussion forums are not for everyone. So, please keep posting along with us. If anyone is banned let it be the other person.
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