jodi arias TAKES THE STAND FOR 14TH DAY #69*may contain graphic and adult content*

[Schuby]

I thought I'd conquered dinner by putting a roast in the slow cooker before the start of trial today. I was wrong. My roast sucks. Not as hard as Jodi, but it still sucks. :waitasec:

 

[Gypsy Road]

Yes DeAnna...I think that Travis used Arias for sex. He used her for the kind of sex he couldn't get with the good Mormon girls. He continued to see her even though he didn't care for her. And she did the same because she was in love with him. She was in love with him, even if he wasn't good for her.

He didn't pursue her in the classical sense. But I think he had a partial obsession with her too. He needed her sexually. The thought of her with another man in the way she was with him made him upset, even if he didn't love her.

This is just my concept...or what I get from what I have seen.

I totally agree, except I think that Travis DID care for her in the beginning of their relationship. He did many nice things for her and if he was just using her for sex, I don't think he would have been as caring. I think down the road into their relationship he realized that she was not marriage material, and finally saw that she was crazy and a bit of a stalker, and his feelings about her really changed. However, he was not able to turn off his sexual feelings toward her so he kept sleeping with her. It does appear that for a time they were both sexually obsessed with one another. I think in the end he was really trying hard to let go and get away from her, but before that process could be complete - she murdered him.

There has not been one shred of believable evidence that Travis was ever physically abusive to her. Not one. We only have her word. Yeah, sure...he did not speak to her kindly and was down right mean to her at times...but this was no excuse for her to feel threatened physically. I bet she said some unkind things to him as well, but funny - she never taped those conversations. I think she killed him in a premeditated jealous rage because she realized he was letting go of her. The upcoming trip to Cancun with another woman put her over the edge.

Also, she can say he was a nice guy all she wants, but not once has she seemed remorseful for killing him. Her testimony did not ring true to me for many reasons, but one that stands out is this - I feel like a real victim of violent abuse would be saying something like "I'm sorry I killed him, but I was in fear for my life!" I don't believe we have ever heard her say she was sorry or that she was remorseful for his murder. Instead she is up on that stand day in and day out speaking out both sides of her mouth - trashing him mostly. I chose not to believe her. Nothing about her or what she says rings true.

 

[BeachGirlFromPA]

Is there any record anywhere of her saying "I'm sorry."?

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Yes DeAnna...I think that Travis used Arias for sex. He used her for the kind of sex he couldn't get with the good Mormon girls. He continued to see her even though he didn't care for her. And she did the same because she was in love with him. She was in love with him, even if he wasn't good for her.

He didn't pursue her in the classical sense. But I think he had a partial obsession with her too. He needed her sexually. The thought of her with another man in the way she was with him made him upset, even if he didn't love her.

This is just my concept...or what I get from what I have seen.

When did Travis show signs of jealousy about her with another man after they broke up? I missed that part. This is what the whole double standard thing was about, she was seeing other men, and Travis said OK, but when he had interest in other women, she had a problem with it. I must have something mixed up.

And, just because Travis knew he could go to Jodi to get the sex that he wanted, it doesn't mean that he was using her. She clearly knew that they were broken up, because she was also seeing other men.

Travis wasn't a mind reader. If Jodi acted as if she was OK with them having a friends with benefits relationship, then how was he to know otherwise? In fact, once he realized she had jealousy issues, and problems, and behaved like a sociopath, he tried to distance himself. As most people who are stalked/abused know, this is the most DANGEROUS period to be in. I mean, come on, two days after he tells her that she is a sociopath, a 25mm gun goes missing, and something like, what.. 9 days? later 25mm was used on Travis. That's some crazy as coincidence.

Travis comes across more as the victim than Jodi (prior to Travis' death).

 

[JaimeInLA]

What is likable about Jodi? I'm sorry... I just can't seem to seem to find one likable trait. I realize I am biased because I think she premeditated Travis' murder, but for those who see likable traits in her. What do you see? I'm asking this in a respectful way and am not at all trying to stir up an argument. I just don't see what you see and am trying to understand.

I'll answer if you promise not to throw things. :truce:

I don't find her particularly likeable, but I do feel sorry for her. She obviously has terrible self esteem. She desperately wanted Travis to want her. To the point that she was willing to let him ONLY have anal sex with her. The girl had ZERO self respect. She had no friends or family that were willing to step in and say that wasn't ok, and that it meant he just wasn't that into her.

(As an aside, anal sex is fine as part of a mature, consensual relationship, but in my opinion it should be part of a larger, more complete sex life -- including vaginal sex. Jodi didn't want to be wanted just for anal sex and oral sex. She wanted to be LOVED. She wanted romantic sex, not just sex-sex. If that makes any sense.)

Now granted, that was 100% her own fault -- she willingly participated. In my 20s, I would have too. Now that I am 40 (yikes!), if a man was only interested in anal sex and having me perform oral sex -- I'd tell him to hit the road. But I had the opportunity to learn how to be strong and have some dignity and voice what I want in a relationship. Jodi was born ****ed up. She never had a chance. And because of that -- I do feel a little empathy for her.

That said, I still totally want her to get the death penalty, because she clearly premeditated the crime and Travis did not in any way deserve what he so brutally got.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Is there any record anywhere of her saying "I'm sorry."?

If there is, I missed it

 

[AngelWings444]

Oops! I brought it over too!

It was worth repeating. :floorlaugh:

 

[BrownRice]

When were the photos of the cuts on her hand that were shown today taken?
She I thought she said they were taken with her helio phone.... She also said same phone was lost a week after phone sex tape (May 10th) ?
Or am I missing something ... Can't listen to Nurmi for long before I zone out.....

I'm starting to zone out too with her BS. I thought she said it happened on June 1st or 2nd at work? It was news to me. It was so gross that she decided to take a picture to send to her friends because they did things like that.

First clue she's lying: she had no friends.

 

[nursebeeme]

lie to me once and I will most likely believe you the next time

lie to me two times and I really will think twice the next time

lie to me three times and I don't believe a word that comes out of your mouth


^hypothetically speaking^

This is why I do not believe a thing that Arias says. We are now on version 5.0 (and in some areas of testimony 6.0)

:twocents:

 

[BritsKate]

Yes DeAnna...I think that Travis used Arias for sex. He used her for the kind of sex he couldn't get with the good Mormon girls. He continued to see her even though he didn't care for her. And she did the same because she was in love with him. She was in love with him, even if he wasn't good for her.

He didn't pursue her in the classical sense. But I think he had a partial obsession with her too. He needed her sexually. The thought of her with another man in the way she was with him made him upset, even if he didn't love her.

This is just my concept...or what I get from what I have seen.

But if we're looking at behaviors consistent with an abusive personality...

Jodi:

• Moved to Mesa after their relationship ended - pursuit in a very classical sense.
• Slashed the tires on his car - damage to personal property.
• Sent a 'warning' email to a prospective girlfriend.
• Snooped through his text messages.
• Stalked him repeatedly.
• In my opinion, very likely cyber stalked him.
• Consistently violated boundaries of personal privacy.
• Snooped through his online accounts.
• Knew his ATM pin # and garage access code.
• Dismissed his voiced concerns over them having sex.
• Showed evidence of high manipulation through their phone recording.
• Isolated Travis in the not so classical sense that because of their sex life, Travis would have been unable to confide the reality of their relationship to many.
• Threatened suicide as emotional blackmail.

 

[katydid23]

The DV experts are going to be frustrating to listen to because they will list the attributes and behavior of TRUE victims of abuse. But that does not mean that everyone who behaves in that way is actually a DV victim.

Many people lie, even those who were never abused.

And if someone denies that their ex was abusive, that does not mean they were abused. It might just mean that they were never abused by them.

 

[LinasK]

Hello Shefner,

Just a question. Have you seen every day of testimony for this trial from the very beginning and especially her 7 days with Nurmi on direct?

The reason I ask is I have noticed that some people that can even remotely believe her story have not followed the case as closely as others.

For me at first, I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, but as the trial wore on, it has become so obvious to me that she has made up her whole story of Travis attacking her.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Travis abused her physically in any way. And I cant take her word for it because she has proven herself to be a liar, a jealous person who is obsessive about it.

So much has been proven IMO that it throws her story totally out the window.

Likewise, I thought there was a chance Casey Anthony had been sexually abused, until I heard the opening statements. It was such outrageous BS, that I knew it was all a crock!!!

 

[paperwing]

However, at some point Jodi went over the abyss of reality with her obsession. Was Travis culpable to some extent? Absolutely. Once he started suspecting her of stealing his journals, crawling through the doggy door, slashing his tires, etc., that should have been it. He should have gotten a restraining order instead of continuing a sexual relationship with her.

Having said that, he surely didn't deserve to be murdered for his poor judgement. And I do think this is premeditated murder. If Jodi couldn't have him, no one could.

(Respectfully snipped)

I appreciate your honesty... it takes a bit of courage sometimes.

What I dispute, in part, concerns Travis' culpability - was it risky/unwise/foolish for Travis to have continued (allegedly) a relationship with JA after all you mention above? Yeah, probably - if he really did maintain the relationship... All we have is the phone sex recording, that I know of, that alludes to their being on friendly terms in the last months of his life. We have numerous scathing texts from Travis to JA that make it abundantly clear he was onto her - and done with her on an romantic-ish level.

Was he still talking to her by phone? Seems so. She was getting into his life by offering to do things for him, buying his car, etc. I assume Travis had no experience with a dangerous psychopath before, otherwise his antennae may have been up and on guard. Sadly, he was a trusting, somewhat naive, imv, young man.

That's where my sense of Travis' culpability ends. With naivete.

I don't believe for a second that anything he might have done would have changed the results. Sadly, men are not likely to seek help or intervention over things like this for fear of being labeled as a wimp or weak, even by themselves. They are also less likely to be taken seriously...

What is so scary is that ROs and such are so often useless and can in fact escalate the problem (and the danger).

So, no, I don't think Travis is culpable for not doing what any one of us thinks he ought to have done. I believe JA was so deeply obsessed she was *beyond* the point of no return.

I don't believe Travis was lily-white, honest and proper in all things... I do think he was normal. It's just unusual when someone's private life is made SO public, with such personal detail - so without thinking sometimes (not saying you!) people make judgments on things that are falsely magnified, and that's tragic, in my view.

I agree that JA acted with stealthy premeditation and is guilty and should face the consequences - which are severe.

I will not comment on my views on the DP - as this is an important issue to me and for today, I'm just gonna keep mum.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Very well said! And you hit right on the money! I've myself worked with crazies as well as the abused, and I'm thankful that I am able to discern and accept the fact that there is evil in this world. Pure evil.

Exactly! I do to! And It hurts to do that, to have to accept that. And they can be convincing. But the main thing is you have to be strong. This type of person cannot win one hand in the card game, you need to win all of them. Give in a little and they have you in a vulnerable spot.

This is also where you bring in experience and instinct. Knowing that with this type of person if you so much as turn your back, you can lose your life.

I am certain beyond a shadow of a doubt (and I wish we could do this because I don't like some posters thinking anyone is just being mean to her) I wish we could have video of Jodi without her knowing so they see the real her. What you will see is laughing, jubilation that she is pulling one over on everyone, a very cocky person, narcissistic and Travis is nothing to her, he never was. She can't "love" like we can, those feelings don't exist in her, sadly there is something wrong in her head. Nothing about her life story is normal, this just didn't happen in 2007-2008.

She is a very classic "Stalker" with the "if I can't have you, nobody can" and it was nothing to kill him, this was planned for weeks down to the staged burglary of her home. She was in no danger, how can anyone not see the plotting and planning that went into the day she killed him? She is not even upset about being in jail, she can adapt to any environment.

-Staged Burglary to get the 25 caliber weapon
-Borrow gas cans for the first time in her road trips to avoid detection at gas stations
-Cut power to cell phone to avoid detection (claim power cord was lost then find it in Utah)
-Rent Car, turn license plate upside down
-Arrive 22 hours late to Ryan Burns house with bandaged fingers
-Commit horrible murder
-Clean up crime scene as much as possible
-Stuff Victim in the shower, wash him off
-Take the gun and other items and get in the car and leave
-Call Victim and leave a voice mail about seeing him next week
-Text Victim asking why he is not calling back
-Go to a Pre Paid Legal Seminar and mingle with friends
-Drive home to Yreka and call the Detectives and ask to speak to them
-Go down to Mesa, attend Victims memorial service

the unfortunate list goes on. For those thinking she is innocent of a crime, have you ever thought anyone was guilty of a crime? Can you name a person or two you think should have been convicted (even if they said they didn't do it?)

 

[thefragile7393]

I may have bought the self defense, if he had been stabbed once or shot once. The way she butchered him, to me shows pure rage and anger.

This exactly. I haven't gone far in the college system but before I the trial started I knew the basic facts and realized it was overkill. Once the trial started and she started rambling I realized I was correct. Truly abused women do kill in self-defense. Their killings looked nothing like hers. I can't feel any sympathy for her or muster up any sadness or warm fuzzy feelings. I don't care about her past or the past of Travis, whether he was a hypocrite or not, whether she was whacked with a spoon or a two by four, who used who. NONE of it justifies his killing. Strip away all the fog and tales of abuse, sordid sex, stalking, etc and it boils down to this woman killed a man in cold blood. And again, if the victim was a woman, few would have any problems pointing to the male defendant and demanding justice. Somehow in 2013 women are still seen as easily manipulated and victims of men and men are always the big bad meanies.

 

[shefner]

Hello Shefner,

Just a question. Have you seen every day of testimony for this trial from the very beginning and especially her 7 days with Nurmi on direct?

The reason I ask is I have noticed that some people that can even remotely believe her story have not followed the case as closely as others.

For me at first, I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, but as the trial wore on, it has become so obvious to me that she has made up her whole story of Travis attacking her.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Travis abused her physically in any way. And I cant take her word for it because she has proven herself to be a liar, a jealous person who is obsessive about it.

So much has been proven IMO that it throws her story totally out the window.

I have watched every day, yes, Hatfield. I might have missed an hour here or there but followed up at night online and on television.

I respect your opinion...I really do.

I think she lied to cover up what she did. And then she had to keep it up...after all, who would believe her anyway?

Perhaps she is a cold-blooded killer. The post-mortem photos certainly appear to make her that way.

But...what if she is right? What if? And I admit, its almost impossible to prove a negative.

I am just saying....hate me, if you must...if I was a juror, I could not dish out the death penalty. And I believe in it.

 

[BrownRice]

Jodi does not do herself any service up on the stand. Today, when she said Travis had more sexual partners than she had (did she say by a long shot?), she loses ALL credibility. First of all, what's the relevance? Secondly, really?

 

[meanddblj]

Throughout this trial I have felt moments of empathy for Jodi because unfortunately, she reminds me of me when I was in my 20s. I had no self-esteem and wasted lots of time on guys who didn't love me, doing things I may not have wanted to do because I was desperate for them to want to be with me. I had a Dear Diary mentality and really, emotionally, was like a teenager in many respects. I recognize her behaviors with Travis - if I just do this, he'll realize he needs me, loves me. Fortunately I eventually learned to accept myself and to stop caring what other people think of me (much...I'm still human!)

However, at some point Jodi went over the abyss of reality with her obsession. Was Travis culpable to some extent? Absolutely. Once he started suspecting her of stealing his journals, crawling through the doggy door, slashing his tires, etc., that should have been it. He should have gotten a restraining order instead of continuing a sexual relationship with her.

Having said that, he surely didn't deserve to be murdered for his poor judgement. And I do think this is premeditated murder. If Jodi couldn't have him, no one could. I don't wish her dead, because I don't agree with the death penalty, but I look forward to a life sentence without possibility of parole.

I agree....I think Travis had a big heart and found it hard to believe she could really go this far. But he did say "if he died, she did it!" He should have taken measures but even a RO would not stop her. He wanted to "see her potential for good". I do believe all the sex happened but I think she was "teaching" him a lot and I do not think he had "sex" actual sex before. Maybe he "grinded" and some other stuff IMHO. Remember he did say he was "just a dildo with a heart beat to her"!

 

[cubbeegirl]

Omg! Chick on jvm worked with Jodi...said Jodi would end a shift at 11pm....and often drive the 5 hours to Travis's ....was obsessed .

Yep...said she was bunny boiling material, and has no doubt she planned the whole thing..

 

[Truth Detector]

This is where I run up against problems with the self-defense theory. Thanks for sharing...

shefner, I missed your reply to my queries on prior thread:

If you believe that even a few of the stabs and slashes were justified by self-defense or TA's not being "wholesome" as you stated, where do you draw your line?

Do you agree with Jodi that TA deserved wounds number one through thirty, or does your line stop short of the slashed throat?

You also said that Travis was "murdered" and that it was "horrible". And then you go on to say that premeditation has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Please explain why you believe that Jodi Arias is a murderer, as you state, since you don't perceive that the case has been made by the prosecution.

For since, in your mind, the case hasn't been made that JA has committed a homicide, on what basis then, do you label her a murderer?