Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[SMK]

She tosses a towel onto the carpet and wipes her feet, puts on fresh socks or shoes and that towel is added to the stuff to be washed.

Thus further confirming she was in a very clear state of mind. I wonder what time she actually got out of there?

 

[BW0000]

Just to further this working theory ONLY based on TA seeing his bishop and changing direction with his life and hoping he did none of this on June04...

Flores tells the killer that TA has deleted all of these type photos from his computer and cell phone. If so, the bed pictures and some shower pics were from an earlier time. (my belief)

TA in bed has duct tape on his arm. There is also a pic in the shower of him having in on. If I believe that the bed pics of him are not from June04, I then have to then say that the shower pic w/ duct tape is from same day as the bed pic. It seems to me these 4 pics taken standing directly in front of the shower were "posing" pics perhaps from a Cavin Klein idea or just taking a pictures of his more athletic body.

He is showing his bicep in one picture and bending his wrist to gain size, another of a well defined back. There stare picture perhaps is the CK thought and finally the sitting picture is to me, a well or better defined abdomen. These I think were from another time and trying to figure out the bathroom I do not start with the sitting picture anymore.

She did however have his camera as the hallway pic shows so perhaps some of the other shower pics at the different angle were from June04.

I wonder why the duct tape was left on the floor by the washer. Why? I don't know if she is this crafty but this would give the appearance and back up his bed picture. Could the duct tape be staged? Fingerprints?

I would like to know if LE can determine in what order these pictures were on the memory stick.

She did however know that TA was viewing videos at 4:20am June 04 because she tells Flores in the interview of the video showing two crazy women in bathing suits with boxes covered with foil on their heads. This IS a video someone watched. Was it TA, TA and her, TA with her sneaking behind him and he didn't know she was there. Could she have watched these herself? If so, she is very crafty.

Again, EVERYTHING above is typed with the belief he rid himself of her especially after May26 text messages. For sure I can be reading too much into this and if I'm wrong, I'm simply wrong.

Where was the dog? I wonder why TA was up after 4 in the morning on a Wed. When did he go to wok?

Regarding whether the timestamps are the actual time of day, with all the cleanup, deleting photos, washing etc, wasn't she at least concerned with roommates coming home especially sometime after 5pm. She was at the washer at some point. They could have came in anytime...or was the real time of the killing earlier in the day with just the timestamp indicating when it happened.

That duct tape on the floor...why?

Perhaps I'm watching to much Columbo

Cheers fellow peepers

 

[SMK]

Just to further this working theory ONLY based on TA seeing his bishop and changing direction with his life and hoping he did none of this on June04...

Flores tells the killer that TA has deleted all of these type photos from his computer and cell phone. If so, the bed pictures and some shower pics were from an earlier time. (my belief)

TA in bed has duct tape on his arm. There is also a pic in the shower of him having in on. If I believe that the bed pics of him are not from June04, I then have to then say that the shower pic w/ duct tape is from same day as the bed pic. It seems to me these 4 pics taken standing directly in front of the shower were "posing" pics perhaps from a Cavin Klein idea or just taking a pictures of his more athletic body.

He is showing his bicep in one picture and bending his wrist to gain size, another of a well defined back. There stare picture perhaps is the CK thought and finally the sitting picture is to me, a well or better defined abdomen. These I think were from another time and trying to figure out the bathroom I do not start with the sitting picture anymore.

She did however have his camera as the hallway pic shows so perhaps some of the other shower pics at the different angle were from June04.

I wonder why the duct tape was left on the floor by the washer. Why? I don't know if she is this crafty but this would give the appearance and back up his bed picture. Could the duct tape be staged? Fingerprints?

I would like to know if LE can determine in what order these pictures were on the memory stick.

She did however know that TA was viewing videos at 4:20am June 04 because she tells Flores in the interview of the video showing two crazy women in bathing suits with boxes covered with foil on their heads. This IS a video someone watched. Was it TA, TA and her, TA with her sneaking behind him and he didn't know she was there. Could she have watched these herself? If so, she is very crafty.

Again, EVERYTHING above is typed with the belief he rid himself of her especially after May26 text messages. For sure I can be reading too much into this and if I'm wrong, I'm simply wrong.

Where was the dog? I wonder why TA was up after 4 in the morning on a Wed. When did he go to wok?

Regarding whether the timestamps are the actual time of day, with all the cleanup, deleting photos, washing etc, wasn't she at least concerned with roommates coming home especially sometime after 5pm. She was at the washer at some point. They could have came in anytime...or was the real time of the killing earlier in the day with just the timestamp indicating when it happened.

That duct tape on the floor...why?

Perhaps I'm watching to much Columbo

Cheers fellow peepers

All of this is especially interesting to me (and thanks, btw, for your truly EXCELLENT & comprehensive posting) because it could involve premeditated murder involving the special circumstances of lying in wait.

If one considers that TA REALLY was done with JA as per his May 26 email, and that THIS sent JA into a rage, then it is compelling to consider that he did NOT want her coming over, did NOT want "just a little more sex for the road", did NOT know she was in the house. VERY very compelling and very good for the prosecution!

I always had an intuitive sense that he was preparing for this Cancun trip, he was blogging about "time to grown up, find a wife"---this is diametrically opposed to lying around with KY jelly and Jodi-----those bedroom pics always struck me as false. Gut feeling. Anyone else besides me and BW0000 see it this way???:waiting:

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

But this professional or qualified and select jury would go against our constitutional idea of the right to be tried by "a jury of your peers".

That's not in the Constitution, but why can't professional jurors be our peers?

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

She tosses a towel onto the carpet and wipes her feet, puts on fresh socks or shoes and that towel is added to the stuff to be washed.

Yes, the area next to the dark carpet stain looks like it was walked through many times.

 

[SMK]

That's not in the Constitution, but why can't professional jurors be our peers?

Is it in the Bill of Rights? I always thought that "a jury of one's peers" implied non-professionalism, just good ol' common folk. :angel:

 

[SMK]

@BW0000 :
Probably the biggest problem with this theory is:

• it would imply that Arias manipulated the timestamps on the photos, and somehow wanted them to be found by police and knew they could be accessed despite her having torn out the card and thrown the whole mess in the washing machine.
  
• Also, it would imply that she wanted all to think she was on the scene at the murder, despite her original story of having not seen Travis since April, and despite her original not there at all/ then masked intruders stories.
  
• Additionally, why the rental car, the cell phone off, if she in fact wanted the police to know she was there 6/4/08 having sex?

Does this ruin our theory???lease:

 

[Sleuth5]

All of this is especially interesting to me (and thanks, btw, for your truly EXCELLENT & comprehensive posting) because it could involve premeditated murder involving the special circumstances of lying in wait.

If one considers that TA REALLY was done with JA as per his May 26 email, and that THIS sent JA into a rage, then it is compelling to consider that he did NOT want her coming over, did NOT want "just a little more sex for the road", did NOT know she was in the house. VERY very compelling and very good for the prosecution!

I always had an intuitive sense that he was preparing for this Cancun trip, he was blogging about "time to grown up, find a wife"---this is diametrically opposed to lying around with KY jelly and Jodi-----those bedroom pics always struck me as false. Gut feeling. Anyone else besides me and BW0000 see it this way???:waiting:

Yes, I hadn't seen it that way, but I think you have a really good point. I'm beginning to think that this may be entirely consistent. The defendant has exhibited many signs of malignant narcissism, and I do not think we can put it past her to have concocted a truly evil plan designed to ruin TA and Mimi as well for daring to reject her. If you consider what she has done throughout the trial in an attempt to thoroughly destroy his reputation, his standing in the church, and his image to family and friends alike, it all makes sense. Malevolent.

 

[SMK]

Yes, I hadn't seen it that way, but I think you have a really good point. I'm beginning to think that this may be entirely consistent. The defendant has exhibited many signs of malignant narcissism, and I do not think we can put it past her to have concocted a truly evil plan designed to ruin TA and Mimi as well for daring to reject her. If you consider what she has done throughout the trial in an attempt to thoroughly destroy his reputation, his standing in the church, and his image to family and friends alike, it all makes sense. Malevolent.

:great: Thanks! Only see my last post, I hope this doesn't blow a big hole in the whole thing.

 

[cluespotter72]

This is how I think it went down: Jodi, with Travis being in a vulnerable position as he was in the shower, took the knife (that she brought with her from home, which she probably had hidden in a bathroom drawer along with the gun she stole from Grandpa) while his back was turned and stabbed him either a couple times in the back or the chest first, as if she was going to kiss him from behind, then continued with the rest of the stab wounds that he had accrued while trying to fend her off with his hands and arms (as is proven in the autopsy report). Then, he stepped out of the shower, in shock and gasping he leaned over the sink trying to get his bearings, all the while coughing over the sink, and arterial blood was spraying all over the sink (as evidenced by CS photos) then, trying to make it down the hall, possibly to the bedroom to try and make it to the phone but not able to make it out of the bathroom, collapsed while sliding down the wall (as evidenced in the CS photo which shows a large smear on the wall, across from the closet) where she sliced his neck (large pooling of blood at area of hallway where tile ends and rug begins close to bathroom entrance door). Then, after dragging poor Travis' body, whom you must know suffered dearly, she put him in the shower where she managed the final coup de grace, the shot to the forehead, just to make sure he was gone for good. And the bullet casing ended up somewhere on the bathroom floor where, eventually kicked by a roommate entering the bathroom to see where Travis was the night they found him, it ended up over the small dried pool of blood.
Just my opinion of how it happened, but probably close to the real goings-on of Jodi's massacre. The death penalty requirements for the self-defense justification says that a person can only employ the same amount of force that it takes to remove the threat, the use of self-defense must match the threat. Jodi crossed that line and I do believe the jury gets it. I believe 1st degree pre-meditated murder will be the charge that gets handed down and that Jodi will get LWOP! Yay!
I just wish the Alexander family more strength to keep going and to be able to sit in the audience for the rest of this very tedious trial. I don't know how but other than for the grace of God have they been able to sit peacefully through that woman being on the stand for those long 18 days it took, with her dragging their brother's good name thru the mud!!! I just don't know if I could have done it! God bless them!
:jail: Jodi in jail, for life!! :banghead:

 

[SMK]

@BW0000 :
Probably the biggest problem with this theory is:

• it would imply that Arias manipulated the timestamps on the photos, and somehow wanted them to be found by police and knew they could be accessed despite her having torn out the card and thrown the whole mess in the washing machine.
  
• Also, it would imply that she wanted all to think she was on the scene at the murder, despite her original story of having not seen Travis since April, and despite her original not there at all/ then masked intruders stories.
  
• Additionally, why the rental car, the cell phone off, if she in fact wanted the police to know she was there 6/4/08 having sex?

Does this ruin our theory???lease:

This is what I mean, Sleuth5

 

[SMK]

This is how I think it went down: Jodi, with Travis being in a vulnerable position as he was in the shower, took the knife (that she brought with her from home, which she probably had hidden in a bathroom drawer along with the gun she stole from Grandpa) while his back was turned and stabbed him either a couple times in the back or the chest first, as if she was going to kiss him from behind, then continued with the rest of the stab wounds that he had accrued while trying to fend her off with his hands and arms (as is proven in the autopsy report). Then, he stepped out of the shower, in shock and gasping he leaned over the sink trying to get his bearings, all the while coughing over the sink, and arterial blood was spraying all over the sink (as evidenced by CS photos) then, trying to make it down the hall, possibly to the bedroom to try and make it to the phone but not able to make it out of the bathroom, collapsed while sliding down the wall (as evidenced in the CS photo which shows a large smear on the wall, across from the closet) where she sliced his neck (large pooling of blood at area of hallway where tile ends and rug begins close to bathroom entrance door). Then, after dragging poor Travis' body, whom you must know suffered dearly, she put him in the shower where she managed the final coup de grace, the shot to the forehead, just to make sure he was gone for good. And the bullet casing ended up somewhere on the bathroom floor where, eventually kicked by a roommate entering the bathroom to see where Travis was the night they found him, it ended up over the small dried pool of blood.
Just my opinion of how it happened, but probably close to the real goings-on of Jodi's massacre. The death penalty requirements for the self-defense justification says that a person can only employ the same amount of force that it takes to remove the threat, the use of self-defense must match the threat. Jodi crossed that line and I do believe the jury gets it. I believe 1st degree pre-meditated murder will be the charge that gets handed down and that Jodi will get LWOP! Yay!
I just wish the Alexander family more strength to keep going and to be able to sit in the audience for the rest of this very tedious trial. I don't know how but other than for the grace of God have they been able to sit peacefully through that woman being on the stand for those long 18 days it took, with her dragging their brother's good name thru the mud!!! I just don't know if I could have done it! God bless them!
:jail: Jodi in jail, for life!! :banghead:

Yes, to say that Jodi crossed that line is an understatement.

 

[geevee]

Thanks for stepping up to the challenge and giving it a shot. A few comments:

Why would Jodi have let Travis get up from a vulnerable seated position an a small enclosure before initiating the attack? This is the biggest problem with your theory. Travis is a physically imposing man to Jodi. Seated in a small shower stall puts him an ideal position for Jodi to initiate the attack. She is now standing above him, and he is trapped without any leverage. But I think knife-firsters need the attack to start outside of the shower because it would make no sense to start trying to stab Travis in the shower while he was sitting down. This does not represent an ideal target at all for a knife attack, as vital organs are not exposed. However, it represents a very nice target for a sudden gunshot to the head. And of course the bullet trajectory matches this scenario perfectly. In the final shower photo, Travis' right side is toward Jodi. Travis is shot in the right forehead. The bullet trajectory is down through the face. Travis is sitting down, Jodi is standing up with the gun. It is simply a perfect fit.

In your scenario, Travis gets himself up and out of the shower before the attack begins. He would likely have dried off prior to using the toilet in your scenario. Then he uses the toilet. Then Jodi approaches him with the camera to show him the photos. He takes the camera, Jodi suddenly stabs him. All this in 45 seconds? What is Jodi doing, standing by with the camera while Travis dries off and takes a pee?

After Travis picks himself up near the toilet (following the initial attack and knocking Jodi back/down), he travels to the sink, faces the sink for several seconds coughing blood. If he had an advantage over Jodi with her off her feet or knocked back, why would he not take advantage of this and try to fully subdue her? Instead, you have him turning around to face the mirror, leaving himself completely vulnerable to another attack from behind?


Ok, my turn.


I again go back to the video which shows the photos in real time:

Travis Alexander shower pics in real time - YouTube

The death scene, according to Travis' camera, goes like:

Photo#/time stamp (YouTube video time)

1) 5:29:20 - Travis looking at the camera (video time 6:13)
2) 5:30:30 - Travis lower half seated (video time 6:24)
3) 5:31:14 - Bathroom ceiling (video time 7:09)
4) 5:32:16 - Travis with neck slashed (video time 8:14)
5) 5:33:32 - Travis being dragged (video time 9:29)

Watching the photos in real time helps convey how much time Jodi had to conduct the mayhem. What fits for me is:

Jodi has Travis just where she wants him: seated in the shower where he represents the least threat possible short of him being tied up. Travis' right side is facing Jodi. She waits for exactly the right moment, perhaps while Travis is wiping water from his eyes with his right hand (which is not visible in photo #2. She shoots Travis at, or immediately after, photo #2. This might have been the exact moment the gun went off. As she pulls the trigger and the gun fires, the recoil causes her other hand to unknowingly snap photo #2.

Travis reacts, and Jodi immediately tries to fire another round to the head. The gun jams. Jodi tries to again to get the gun to fire, but no luck. To her horror she sees that Travis is anything but dead. She knows she must now finish the job. She retreats from the bathroom to retrieve the knife (perhaps in the bedroom). There is a significant pause prior to photo #3 (~45 sec) This would be the time that both Jodi and Travis realize the gun is jammed. Jodi departs the bathroom to get the knife. Travis, stunned by the gunshot, doesn't just continue to sit in the shower and bleed. He manages to up himself, and before trying to get help for himself, instinctively moves to the sink to assess the wound. He may have thought Jodi was leaving the scene at that point and was not an immediate threat. He was probably shaky and a bit disoriented, and had to prop himself with wet hands on the front of the sink. Blood is dripping from his nose from the sinus wound, leaving a trail of blood droplets on the counter in front of the sink pointing back to the shower. Clearly Travis was facing toward the mirror, so Jodi was not engaged in knife slashing at that point because she left to retrieve the knife.

Jodi returns. Travis may have seen her in the mirror and turned to face her. She may have partially concealed the knife and pretended to be concerned about the wound so Travis would lower his guard (I can just hear her feigning concern at this point to gain advantage again.) She lunged with a straight-on knife thrust to the chest, aiming directly for his heart with the one really clean shot she had before Travis started defending himself. Travis, mortally wounded, was still able to attempt to fend off subsequent knife thrusts, incurring defensive wounds. Jodi still had the camera in her hand, and photo #3 was snapped during the start of the knife attack (this might also have been an unconscious reflex of her right hand as she lunged at him). Travis realizes that he is overcome and must flee, and attempts to escape toward the bedroom. Jodi continues stabbing, Travis falls, and Jodi finishes him off with additional stabs and finally the coup de grace.

Total time for the murder: about one and three-quarters minutes (between photos #2 and #4). Total time for the knife attack: about a minute (between photo #3 and #4).

Between photo #4 and #5, another minute and 17 seconds elapses. What is Jodi doing during this minute? I'm guessing she was assessing the unplanned horror in front of her, grabbing the duvet cover, and maneuvering Travis' body back toward the still-running shower.

Dave

Really good post. I was just looking over the last and second to last photos and I'm beginning to wonder if his throat had been slashed when 2nd to last was taken. If you look at the right side of his head, it looks like blood is dripping down from his head to his shoulder, as if coming from his forehead, and since the carotid and the jugular were cut on that side of the neck, I don't think we're seeing (can't believe I'm saying this, so sorry, Travis) enough blood on his neck/upper back to account for that. He did have a knife wound close to the back of his neck on the right side and an upper chest wound along with the heart stab. Also, the light coming from overhead in this pic could only be in two locations, in front of the shower or near the middle of the hall.

And the last one, look at the size of the duvet cover in relation to the baseboard, if that were Travis being drug, it would be a whole lot bigger in relation to the size of the baseboard, don't you think? And she is also under one of the overhead lights, you can see it shining off of something on the right (it's brighter from edge of duvet cover and down to the center of the baseboard), I'm thinking the knife is in her right hand as she is picking up the duvet cover full of bloody items and grabbing for the camera with left and accidentally taking that pic.

 

[usnuzuloose]

Where does her Mom live?

I was thinking about that bullet, and wondered if they had maybe matched it with the bullets from the grandmothers home. But if indeed it matched the ones from her moms home, it should show then that she brought that gun and Travis never had one.

Is there audio or video or something with the Det statement about that?

 

[SMK]

You mean like Dr. RS? He's a professional.

No wait. It can't be a professional like him because you don't like him.

And, it couldn't be a professional like me because you don't like me, either. Unless I always voted the way you wanted me to vote, and then, I wouldn't lose my job.

So to keep my job I would be sure to always vote the way you want me to vote.

And, now you have the Prosecution, ME, Judge, Police, and Jury, all paid by the State.

You don't like freedom much either, do you?

IMO

Bravo - my point. It would be undemocratic, the very antithesis of democracy.

 

[SMK]

@sleuth5 and BW0000: Unless it was a back-up plan, in case she did get caught?

I am still hoping the theory applies, because it is almost counter-intuitive if it does not. Can either of you help me out here?

 

[crimesnooper]

What I still can't figure out is the house situation. How many roomates did he have? Why was JA not concerned about them coming home or being at home? If she had planned this would she not have been nevrous that one of the housemates seeing her in the home? And about the dog? What happened to him? Were his roomates supposed to take care of the dog? It's hard for me to imagine my dog not whinning by a closed bedroom door, especially if there had been a commontion. So all his housemates are in the house for that many days and they don't smell anything? Can anyone fill in the gaps?

 

[SMK]

What I still can't figure out is the house situation. How many roomates did he have? Why was JA not concerned about them coming home or being at home? If she had planned this would she not have been nevrous that one of the housemates seeing her in the home? And about the dog? What happened to him? Were his roomates supposed to take care of the dog? It's hard for me to imagine my dog not whinning by a closed bedroom door, especially if there had been a commontion. So all his housemates are in the house for that many days and they don't smell anything? Can anyone fill in the gaps?

I did have a lot of these questions, too.

The only one I was able to get an answer for was the smell of decomposition, which after 5 days was intense (Flores says in his report: "The smell of decomposition could be detected throughout the home, and was evident as soon as we entered the front door." )

> Because TA was upstairs in the bedroom behind a locked door in a back bathroom in an airconditioned house, and the bedroom door had been shut and locked----it was only when the friends broke in and called 911 and the door was now standing open - that the odor began to circulate. Hope that helps.

In addition, it sounds like TA's bedroom/bath/office was more or less off by itself, making it almost like a private apartment within the home- and room mates entered via the garage versus the front door.

 

[geevee]

Thus further confirming she was in a very clear state of mind. I wonder what time she actually got out of there?

BBM
That still mystifies me, she apparently checked TA's voice mails around 5:45, and as close as the roommate (Enrique?) can remember is he got home between 6:00 and 6:30. The duvet cover is found in the dryer and we see it pictured in the very last photo at 5:33, how does she get it into the washer with the sheet, pillow cases and whatever else was in that load, get it washed and put in dryer and then throw camera, towel, t shirt and socks in washer, all in a half hour?

Could the camera have originally been set for CA time and it the time stamps be an hour later than they actually were? That would make much more sense.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I have been arguing this scenario for over 6 weeks. We need not take as absolute TRUTH the ME's account of the clinical consequence of a right frontal lobe GSW. I do NOT believe the ME's opinion on this question. I am still awaiting input from an experienced trauma neurosurgeon who practices in large metropolitan areas ie Los Angeles, NYC, Miami, Chicago, or Atlanta where there are active "Knife and Gun Clubs"

I personally trained (neuroradiology) at LA County Medical Center (Los Angeles CA) and saw hundreds of GSW to head and neck.

Anybody believing in an alternative scenario needs to rebut the logic cogently explicated above.

I agree. Furthermore, no one is saying that Dr. Horn isn't a qualified pathologist or attacking his experience or capabilities.

It is every person's right to question even the "expert" opinions given. All humans, even the handsome Dr. Horn, are fallible. It isn't that anyone is IGNORING his testimony as has been posited. It is that some of us have taken his words into account and are still harboring doubts that his medical opinion in this particular instance is 100% spot on!

Y'all are taking this WAY too personally, IMO.

It is okay to think for one's self and question "authority". :seeya: