Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[SMK]

JA offered this only as an excuse for why the photos would be there with that day's timestamp.



The blue cap is visible in both pics of Travis, but what is your point on this?

Do you mean it wasn't visible in Jodi's pics? That's easily explainable that it was just different parts of the bed.

:furious:

 

[wilsodh]

Really good post. I was just looking over the last and second to last photos and I'm beginning to wonder if his throat had been slashed when 2nd to last was taken. If you look at the right side of his head, it looks like blood is dripping down from his head to his shoulder, as if coming from his forehead, and since the carotid and the jugular were cut on that side of the neck, I don't think we're seeing (can't believe I'm saying this, so sorry, Travis) enough blood on his neck/upper back to account for that. He did have a knife wound close to the back of his neck on the right side and an upper chest wound along with the heart stab. Also, the light coming from overhead in this pic could only be in two locations, in front of the shower or near the middle of the hall.

And the last one, look at the size of the duvet cover in relation to the baseboard, if that were Travis being drug, it would be a whole lot bigger in relation to the size of the baseboard, don't you think? And she is also under one of the overhead lights, you can see it shining off of something on the right (it's brighter from edge of duvet cover and down to the center of the baseboard), I'm thinking the knife is in her right hand as she is picking up the duvet cover full of bloody items and grabbing for the camera with left and accidentally taking that pic.

I agree your comment on the 'throat slash' photo is plausible. It might help explain how Travis got from the tiled floor to the carpet, which is where I think most people would agree Travis bled out heavily from the throat slash. I've struggled to understand how Travis: a) managed to apparently lift his head with major frontal muscles severed (if you lie on your back on the floor, it is impossible to lift your head without using these muscles), and b) changed locations to the carpet after such a severe wound. It seems to me that he would have had to slide himself backward with a gaping neck wound that surely would have rendered him unconscious very quickly. If he tried to slide himself backward, Jodi was standing in his way.

To be honest, I've had a hard time making out much of anything with photo #5. I haven't seen a high quality version of the photo, just dark versions on the internet. If someone has a link to a lightened, better version, I would appreciate it!

Dave

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

:furious:

Sorry for being a wet blanket. No KY on me though.

 

[Captain86]

You're telling me she's an organized criminal. She brought the gun to kill him, remember?. That's what an organized criminal does. So, yeah, she even got him in the shower to shoot him--it would have looked like the maid service had just come through.

But, it doesn't. It ls a disorganized crime scene. Therefore, its either done by a disorganized perp or something went wrong. A disorganized perp doesn't bring a weapon to a crime scene.



So what? she didn't use the gun to kill him, remember? She didn't use the dvd to kill him, either. That also went missing. Unless she uses the gun to kill him, you cannot prove she ever intended to kill him using the robbery.



well, yes it is. And, you see people keep popping up who say she used the knife to defend herself.



Same to you and I raise you one. You call people names instead of arguing the facts.

IMO

For starters, I didn't call you or anyone else any names. I did make a comment on what I thought of how you are looking at the issue of premeiditation.

Premditated murder or Murder I is simply a murder that someone had the intent/plan to murder another person. It does not have to be a specific weapon. It does not even have to be a specific person that they intend to kill.

In some aspects, yes, she is very organized. She knew exactly how much gas she needed to get from Pasdena, CA to Las Vegas, NV via Meas, AZ so that there would be no receipts placing her in AZ. She turned her phone off after leaving Pasadena so that her cell phone could not be tracked. She changed her look and did things to the car so it was not easily identified.

In other areas, she is not as organized. You would think that she would have taken the camera card with, since photos can be retieved. It also was not very intelligent to let him take your picture in his bed on the day you're going to murder him. She did a fairly good job cleaning the crime scene. If she had tried to clean up all the blood she would have been there for days, so she cleaned him and tried to remove as much evidence of her being there as she reasonably could.

The actual crime scene is what it is. It was a murder with a knife. They tend to be bloody and messy. There really isn't any way around that. For the most part, they are quieter than murder with a gun. The picture of him sitting in the shower is odd, but there really isn't any concrete evidence that the attack started with him sitting in the shower. She just as easily could have waited until he was stepping out of the shower drying his hair. His face partially covered, unsuspecting and unprepared to defend himself. You can not judge her orginaztion as a killer based off the appearance of the crime scene. She maybe underestimated his desire to live. She wouldn't be the first. She won't be the last.

She killed him. The plan to cover her tracks getting to and from his house is pretty clear. The result of her visit is an absolute fact. If she was just going there for a day of sex, why all the precautions to hide her trip there? The evidence strongly suggests she brought both the knife and the gun, so the option to use either one or both is at her fingertips. She used both in his murder. She shot him in the head and cut his throat. The fact that the cuttign of the throat would have been faster than the gunshot to the head, does not give her a free pass on premeditated murder.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I agree your comment on the 'throat slash' photo is plausible. It might help explain how Travis got from the tiled floor to the carpet, which is where I think most people would agree Travis bled out heavily from the throat slash. I've struggled to understand how Travis: a) managed to apparently lift his head with major frontal muscles severed (if you lie on your back on the floor, it is impossible to lift your head without using these muscles), and b) changed locations to the carpet after such a severe wound. It seems to me that he would have had to slide himself backward with a gaping neck wound that surely would have rendered him unconscious very quickly. If he tried to slide himself backward, Jodi was standing in his way.

To be honest, I've had a hard time making out much of anything with photo #5. I haven't seen a high quality version of the photo, just dark versions on the internet. If someone has a link to a lightened, better version, I would appreciate it!

Dave

The location where his throat was cut is puzzling to me. That dragging pic looks like his neck is still intact, thought it could be raised because she is holding it up somehow. And in the last pic his shoulders are up off the floor. Is she pulling him up? Is he raising himself? Each alternative seems odd.

I really can't be sure what is the main blood source on the carpet. Anybody know of a good analysis of that stain?

 

[LambChop]

For starters, I didn't call you or anyone else any names. I did make a comment on what I thought of how you are looking at the issue of premeiditation.

Premditated murder or Murder I is simply a murder that someone had the intent/plan to murder another person. It does not have to be a specific weapon. It does not even have to be a specific person that they intend to kill.

In some aspects, yes, she is very organized. She knew exactly how much gas she needed to get from Pasdena, CA to Las Vegas, NV via Meas, AZ so that there would be no receipts placing her in AZ. She turned her phone off after leaving Pasadena so that her cell phone could not be tracked. She changed her look and did things to the car so it was not easily identified.

In other areas, she is not as organized. You would think that she would have taken the camera card with, since photos can be retieved. It also was not very intelligent to let him take your picture in his bed on the day you're going to murder him. She did a fairly good job cleaning the crime scene. If she had tried to clean up all the blood she would have been there for days, so she cleaned him and tried to remove as much evidence of her being there as she reasonably could.

The actual crime scene is what it is. It was a murder with a knife. They tend to be bloody and messy. There really isn't any way around that. For the most part, they are quieter than murder with a gun. The picture of him sitting in the shower is odd, but there really isn't any concrete evidence that the attack started with him sitting in the shower. She just as easily could have waited until he was stepping out of the shower drying his hair. His face partially covered, unsuspecting and unprepared to defend himself. You can not judge her orginaztion as a killer based off the appearance of the crime scene. She maybe underestimated his desire to live. She wouldn't be the first. She won't be the last.

She killed him. The plan to cover her tracks getting to and from his house is pretty clear. The result of her visit is an absolute fact. If she was just going there for a day of sex, why all the precautions to hide her trip there? The evidence strongly suggests she brought both the knife and the gun, so the option to use either one or both is at her fingertips. She used both in his murder. She shot him in the head and cut his throat. The fact that the cuttign of the throat would have been faster than the gunshot to the head, does not give her a free pass on premeditated murder.

Jodi was just stopping in yet she claims Travis brought in her suitcase, backpack, computer, etc. as if she planned to stay for a couple of days. Who does that? She had no plans to stay there yet she obviously had with her in that house a couple of changes of clothes. Her driver's seat was clean, red stains were only on the back seat and front passenger seat so she did change her clothes before leaving. There is also no bloody trail down the steps and into the laundry room.

It appears she was already gone by the time the roommate came home because the front door was locked. He had to enter through the garage. If he did enter while she was there she would have heard the garage door. jmo

 

[geevee]

JA offered this only as an excuse for why the photos would be there with that day's timestamp.



The blue cap is visible in both pics of Travis, but what is your point on this?

Do you mean it wasn't visible in Jodi's pics? That's easily explainable that it was just different parts of the bed.

It is visible in the pic of JA laying outstretched (left to right) it's behind her. Also, look at her braid in that pic, looks like duct tape holding that braid together, no?

 

[BW0000]

JA offered this only as an excuse for why the photos would be there with that day's timestamp.



The blue cap is visible in both pics of Travis, but what is your point on this?

Do you mean it wasn't visible in Jodi's pics? That's easily explainable that it was just different parts of the bed.

SS...

One problem is we are looking at pictures of pictures, not the best quality. Apparently with the actual photo JM had it shows more clearly the cap wasn't visible and Melendez answered accordingly. I still think they are laying on two different bedspreads all within 50 sec with (perhaps one with a cap one without) with the KY facing in two different directions. I'm hoping to see in rebuttal why this question was asked.

Looking at the bedspreads, are they the same or not? What do you think? Anyone?

 

[gitana1]

Yes, as I said, it's possible. But it's not likely.



Outstretched would increase the downward angle (unless she purposely raised her elbow to point downward, which is doubtful). And I have done experiments personally. Using their body sizes, her arm would barely be above his forehead. The angle would be much less steep than the final trajectory.

It's not likely in your opinion.

But, I have seen a flood of evidence, from ER nurses who have seen multiple gun shot wounds, people who shoot deer with guns, gunshot wounds studies, specific studies about gun shots to the frontal lobe, other experts talking on t.v. about Travis' wounds (experts who actually read the autopsy), and statements by the ME himself (who initially said it would not incapacitate Travis, then said it would not be immediately incapacitating, then said it would be, then said he doesn't remember talking to Flores, etc., etc.), to indicate, along with the evidence of the crime scene, jodi's eerie ninja story, her bringing of a gun to Travis's murder, and the choice of a woman trying to kill a man, between using a gun or a knife to do so, indicate it most definitely is likely.

As to the trajectory, I did the experiments personally as well. An outstretched arm would not increase the downward angle. That defies physics and geometry.
The trajectory would be straighter if she was standing away from him (although it would still be downward if she was standing and he sitting) and it would be the same angle as a bent elbow position if standing above him.
To me, it is likely that she raised her shoulder and elbow in the "put a cap in you, sucka" position, above his head, and shot him. (A little bit like the guy on the right in this photo, but obviously a bigger gap since jodi was likely standing and Travis was sitting):

).

 

[geevee]

I agree your comment on the 'throat slash' photo is plausible. It might help explain how Travis got from the tiled floor to the carpet, which is where I think most people would agree Travis bled out heavily from the throat slash. I've struggled to understand how Travis: a) managed to apparently lift his head with major frontal muscles severed (if you lie on your back on the floor, it is impossible to lift your head without using these muscles), and b) changed locations to the carpet after such a severe wound. It seems to me that he would have had to slide himself backward with a gaping neck wound that surely would have rendered him unconscious very quickly. If he tried to slide himself backward, Jodi was standing in his way.

To be honest, I've had a hard time making out much of anything with photo #5. I haven't seen a high quality version of the photo, just dark versions on the internet. If someone has a link to a lightened, better version, I would appreciate it!

Dave

I've uploaded them with the most clarity I can get here (both should be right on top of the first page):

http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/g.../?page=1&_suid=136407506037505519036324471938

 

[SMK]

Just wanted to make a few points backing BW0000's theory about the pics of 6/4/08: * please read, BW0000 & Sleuth5:

1. We all know Travis was human and Travis was weak: Which is why he continued to engage in the kinky sex with JA, long after he knew she was really not someone he wanted to be involved with.

2. And yet, as BW0000 points out, the email of May 26 had an air of finality about it. We know that it's said that stalkers often escalate to rage and violence when a final break is made - even though, ironically, you are indeed supposed to break with them.

3. Travis took Jodi's name off the Cancun trip, and replaced it with Mimi's. Mimi had said they should go only as friends due to Travis' admited status of being "temple unworthy".

4. We know such a status came from having come clean to Church elders. This is not a light matter: He has allowed those he serves and respects to know of his mistake with Jodi, and he is willing to publicly be on probation. Think about it: He was scared. He was finished. What else could the elders have told this much-cherished and much-honored youth but to "break with her completely." ???

4a. We see in his blog post of May 18 - 2 1/2 weeks before his murder - that he is longing for a wife, longing to be a good Mormon.

5. Was Travis SO weak that on June 4, given all of the above, he would indulge in lying around, using KY, posing for Calvin Klein like sultry shower pics, and taking graphic pics of a woman who had cost him Lisa, Mimi, and his standing in the church???? Think about it. Travis was done. Jodi knew this. Ergo, she had murder in her heart, and on her mind. He would sense this.

6. I believe she was never invited in and ambushed him. As per my other posts, I believe the shower pics and the sex pics were from a much earlier date.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

It is visible in the pic of JA laying outstretched (left to right) it's behind her. Also, look at her braid in that pic, looks like duct tape holding that braid together, no?

OK, right. So the cap was off in that one. But I don't see duct tape there. That would be hardcore, like a punk/schoolgirl look?

 

[FrayedKnot]

I appreciate that everyone has a right to their opinion, but I guess it's hard to accept other people's word over a doctor who has been doing this for quite a few number of years. So, yea, I am sticking with the doctor on this one. lol.

And that is how it should be!

You are entitled to your theory as are we all! Thanks for your positive post! :seeya:

 

[geevee]

The location where his throat was cut is puzzling to me. That dragging pic looks like his neck is still intact, thought it could be raised because she is holding it up somehow. And in the last pic his shoulders are up off the floor. Is she pulling him up? Is he raising himself? Each alternative seems odd.

I really can't be sure what is the main blood source on the carpet. Anybody know of a good analysis of that stain?

BBM
Only the one I did. LOL

http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/g...=3&o=11&_suid=1364075906921047590710712553596

 

[gitana1]

For starters, I didn't call you or anyone else any names. I did make a comment on what I thought of how you are looking at the issue of premeiditation.

Premditated murder or Murder I is simply a murder that someone had the intent/plan to murder another person. It does not have to be a specific weapon. It does not even have to be a specific person that they intend to kill.

In some aspects, yes, she is very organized. She knew exactly how much gas she needed to get from Pasdena, CA to Las Vegas, NV via Meas, AZ so that there would be no receipts placing her in AZ. She turned her phone off after leaving Pasadena so that her cell phone could not be tracked. She changed her look and did things to the car so it was not easily identified.

In other areas, she is not as organized. You would think that she would have taken the camera card with, since photos can be retieved. It also was not very intelligent to let him take your picture in his bed on the day you're going to murder him. She did a fairly good job cleaning the crime scene. If she had tried to clean up all the blood she would have been there for days, so she cleaned him and tried to remove as much evidence of her being there as she reasonably could.

The actual crime scene is what it is. It was a murder with a knife. They tend to be bloody and messy. There really isn't any way around that. For the most part, they are quieter than murder with a gun. The picture of him sitting in the shower is odd, but there really isn't any concrete evidence that the attack started with him sitting in the shower. She just as easily could have waited until he was stepping out of the shower drying his hair. His face partially covered, unsuspecting and unprepared to defend himself. You can not judge her orginaztion as a killer based off the appearance of the crime scene. She maybe underestimated his desire to live. She wouldn't be the first. She won't be the last.

She killed him. The plan to cover her tracks getting to and from his house is pretty clear. The result of her visit is an absolute fact. If she was just going there for a day of sex, why all the precautions to hide her trip there? The evidence strongly suggests she brought both the knife and the gun, so the option to use either one or both is at her fingertips. She used both in his murder. She shot him in the head and cut his throat. The fact that the cuttign of the throat would have been faster than the gunshot to the head, does not give her a free pass on premeditated murder.

According to this book,
Introduction to Forensic Psychology: Research and Application,

a crime can be mixed. In other words, "a crime may have begun as a carefully planned one, but quickly deteriorated into a disorganized crime when things when things failed to go as originally planned and unanticipated strong emotions set in." http://books.google.com/books?id=Ea...zgK#v=onepage&q=disorganized criminal&f=false


I think most people understand that just because a crime didn't go as planned - which few do- doesn't mean premeditation is cancelled out.

 

[wasnt_me]

BBM
Only the one I did. LOL

http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/g...=3&o=11&_suid=1364075906921047590710712553596

This is the picture I was looking at when I said I could see an outline of Travis' body on the carpet. Does anyone else see it? With is left arm up on the side where the wall is?

 

[Sleuth5]

Just wanted to make a few points backing BW0000's theory about the pics of 6/4/08: * please read, BW0000 & Sleuth5:

1. We all know Travis was human and Travis was weak: Which is why he continued to engage in the kinky sex with JA, long after he knew she was really not someone he wanted to be involved with.

2. And yet, as BW0000 points out, the email of May 26 had an air of finality about it. We know that it's said that stalkers often escalate to rage and violence when a final break is made - even though, ironically, you are indeed supposed to break with them.

3. Travis took Jodi's name off the Cancun trip, and replaced it with Mimi's. Mimi had said they should go only as friends due to Travis' admited status of being "temple unworthy".

4. We know such a status came from having come clean to Church elders. This is not a light matter: He has allowed those he serves and respects to know of his mistake with Jodi, and he is willing to publicly be on probation. Think about it: He was scared. He was finished. What else could the elders have told this much-cherished and much-honored youth but to "break with her completely." ???

4a. We see in his blog post of May 18 - 2 1/2 weeks before his murder - that he is longing for a wife, longing to be a good Mormon.

5. Was Travis SO weak that on June 4, given all of the above, he would indulge in lying around, using KY, posing for Calvin Klein like sultry shower pics, and taking graphic pics of a woman who had cost him Lisa, Mimi, and his standing in the church???? Think about it. Travis was done. Jodi knew this. Ergo, she had murder in her heart, and on her mind. He would sense this.

6. I believe she was never invited in and ambushed him. As per my other posts, I believe the shower pics and the sex pics were from a much earlier date.

Wow, I think this is some serious sleuthing, and I think the point about the public nature of his "penance" is an especially important one. He had taken a major step in revealing the relationship to the church elders, and it had obvious consequences with Mimi. It is certainly reasonable to imagine that a young man might succumb to sexual temptation given a determined pursuer, but in this case it appears as though Travis had gone out of his way to publicly make the break with her.

I think you are spot on with that having driven her into a narcissistic rage. What's more, I reiterate my opinion that her deliberate campaign intended to thoroughly disgrace Travis' memory with virtually everyone, to literally annihilate his memory, is entirely consistent with that rage. We've seen it from the moment she walked into the courtroom, as virtually everything out of her mouth has been an attempt to justify what she did, not because of self-defense, in my opinion, but because she felt justified in destroying him after he had the nerve to cast her aside in favor of "more suitable" women (at least in her mind).

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

It's not likely in your opinion.

But, I have seen a flood of evidence, from ER nurses who have seen multiple gun shot wounds, people who shoot deer with guns, gunshot wounds studies, specific studies about gun shots to the frontal lobe, other experts talking on t.v. about Travis' wounds (experts who actually read the autopsy),

Yes, it happens. I'm not saying it's impossible. But ask the ER nurses how many head gunshot victims made it to the ER on their feet vs those who never made it or were out.

As to the trajectory, I did the experiments personally as well. An outstretched arm would not increase the downward angle. That defies physics and geometry.

It would lower the angle compared to holding your arm with elbow bent back. Try again.

To me, it is likely that she raised her shoulder and elbow in the "put a cap in you, sucka" position, above his head, and shot him.

Likely, really? Based on what, other than your presumption that she shot him at the shower?

This is just additional conjecture to make the gunfirst theory fit.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Just to further this working theory ONLY based on TA seeing his bishop and changing direction with his life and hoping he did none of this on June04...

Flores tells the killer that TA has deleted all of these type photos from his computer and cell phone. If so, the bed pictures and some shower pics were from an earlier time. (my belief)

TA in bed has duct tape on his arm. There is also a pic in the shower of him having in on. If I believe that the bed pics of him are not from June04, I then have to then say that the shower pic w/ duct tape is from same day as the bed pic. It seems to me these 4 pics taken standing directly in front of the shower were "posing" pics perhaps from a Cavin Klein idea or just taking a pictures of his more athletic body.

He is showing his bicep in one picture and bending his wrist to gain size, another of a well defined back. There stare picture perhaps is the CK thought and finally the sitting picture is to me, a well or better defined abdomen. These I think were from another time and trying to figure out the bathroom I do not start with the sitting picture anymore.

She did however have his camera as the hallway pic shows so perhaps some of the other shower pics at the different angle were from June04.

I wonder why the duct tape was left on the floor by the washer. Why? I don't know if she is this crafty but this would give the appearance and back up his bed picture. Could the duct tape be staged? Fingerprints?

I would like to know if LE can determine in what order these pictures were on the memory stick.

She did however know that TA was viewing videos at 4:20am June 04 because she tells Flores in the interview of the video showing two crazy women in bathing suits with boxes covered with foil on their heads. This IS a video someone watched. Was it TA, TA and her, TA with her sneaking behind him and he didn't know she was there. Could she have watched these herself? If so, she is very crafty.

Again, EVERYTHING above is typed with the belief he rid himself of her especially after May26 text messages. For sure I can be reading too much into this and if I'm wrong, I'm simply wrong.

Where was the dog? I wonder why TA was up after 4 in the morning on a Wed. When did he go to wok?

Regarding whether the timestamps are the actual time of day, with all the cleanup, deleting photos, washing etc, wasn't she at least concerned with roommates coming home especially sometime after 5pm. She was at the washer at some point. They could have came in anytime...or was the real time of the killing earlier in the day with just the timestamp indicating when it happened.

That duct tape on the floor...why?

Perhaps I'm watching to much Columbo

Cheers fellow peepers

BBM

I wondered the same thing.....

He also told his roommate that he had only slept 45 mins the previous night.

And Mormons don't do caffeine.

So i'm thinking insomnia. Worry? Stress?

 

[geevee]

SS...

One problem is we are looking at pictures of pictures, not the best quality. Apparently with the actual photo JM had it shows more clearly the cap wasn't visible and Melendez answered accordingly. I still think they are laying on two different bedspreads all within 50 sec with (perhaps one with a cap one without) with the KY facing in two different directions. I'm hoping to see in rebuttal why this question was asked.

Looking at the bedspreads, are they the same or not? What do you think? Anyone?

Do you think he could have taken that back view pic of her 'you know' at 1:42:00 and then be lying in bed for the 1:42:50 pic? Pretty relaxed for just having jumped into bed.