John Ramsey Fabricated Open Basement Window "Evidence"

[kanzz]

^ I don't like speculating on what-ifs; I only try to go on what we know and what definitively happened. It becomes a slippery slope when you go down the what-if angle.

I think in your scenario, he would have to make a rash decision once he stumbled upon the body; he would have to choose, right then and there, that A) he knows exactly what happened (that BR killed her and that his wife was covering) and B) that he himself would join in on the cover-up. He'd have to make this extremely monumental decision within all but just an hour (that he "disappeared") to boot. It's not like he could have "slept on it" so to speak.

He didn't know what he didn't know. But he knew he didn't kill her.

"This is an inside job" could have been JR's way of telling Arndt what she needed to know, even though JR didn't want to publicly disparage his family.

 

[Userid]

^ How would he come to that conclusion, when he knew she wrote the note? The logical thing to conclude is, if she wrote the note, she must have murdered the child (or at the very least, somehow been involved).

I'm confused why he would want Arndt "to know what she needed to know." There'd be no point in that.

 

[kanzz]

^ If Kolar thinks that, then I disagree with him personally. Scatolia isn't indicative of future murderers (that would be more along the lines of animal cruelty). Strange, yes, but again, not indicative. The golf club incident also is quite common among young siblings like that.

Your scenario is a bit different than Andreww's it seems, but again, I disagree. He wouldn't have needed to pick apart every word to know that his wife was trying to shift focus on her husband, either directly or indirectly, with being involved in the kidnapping. This was beyond obvious.

I'm not just talking about scatolia. And we don't know whether or not BR mistreated animals. But I thought that issue was more indicative of future serial killers, maybe not single killers, idk.
RE: Kolar. I'm talking about the overall scenario. I think it becomes more apparent in his AMA.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Unresolved..._im_chief_marshall_james_kolar_ama/?limit=500

"Beyond quite obvious" is in the eye of the beholder, imo. Especially when your world is turned upside down. He would have known the note was directed at him, but to say "his wife was trying to shift focus on her husband, either directly or indirectly, with being involved in the kidnapping" might be a stretch for him to together that morning with everything else that had to have been going through his head. Actually, I thought PR was trying to shift focus away from either of them being involved in the kidnapping.

 

[kanzz]

^ How would he come to that conclusion, when he knew she wrote the note? The logical thing to conclude is, if she wrote the note, she must have murdered the child (or at the very least, somehow been involved).

I'm confused why he would want Arndt "to know what she needed to know." There'd be no point in that.

Yes, PR was involved. Minimally, she wrote the note. But I think she also did the staging.

If Arndt would have been half a detective, she could have picked up on that verbal clue, imo.

How much more inside can you get than FAMILY?. And why wouldn't JR want her to know? Or maybe it was just another spontaneous utterance. I think there would be a good point in it. Give her a clue, then let the detectives do their jobs. Help end this stupid kidnapping nightmare.

He also told Fr. Rol something to the effect that, "I don't think he meant to kill her, because she was wrapped in a blanket."

I think JR knew who killed her and who covered for him.

 

[UKGuy]

Agreed, it was askew from FW moving it, but I mean it was always under the window. It wasn't moved there from somewhere else.

andreww,
From memory JR said it was, i.e. that's not where I put it, when I brought it downstairs?

Not that I believe him anyway.


So JR is setup as a stooge in a homicide involving his own daughter?

This nearly bankrupts him, makes him persona non grata amongst his social circle, e.g. not wanted in the Republican Party, and unemployable.

All whilst BR is smiling all over the TV coining in litigation payouts, and generally enjoying the good life.

No wonder JR needs to read the bible ...


.

 

[AndHence]

John doesn't alert LE to the broken window because 1) he doesn't want to be the first to point it out and 2) he's not convinced LE will buy the staging so his stock answer is to say that he broke it the previous summer.

On this second point, John is constantly hedging because he is unsure if LE will be able to determine when the window was broken. It is only until Lou Smit posits the broken window as the entry point for an intruder that John feels confident enough in rolling with that story.

 

[Userid]

I'm not just talking about scatolia. And we don't know whether or not BR mistreated animals. But I thought that issue was more indicative of future serial killers, maybe not single killers, idk.
RE: Kolar. I'm talking about the overall scenario. I think it becomes more apparent in his AMA.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Unresolved..._im_chief_marshall_james_kolar_ama/?limit=500

"Beyond quite obvious" is in the eye of the beholder, imo. Especially when your world is turned upside down. He would have known the note was directed at him, but to say "his wife was trying to shift focus on her husband, either directly or indirectly, with being involved in the kidnapping" might be a stretch for him to together that morning with everything else that had to have been going through his head. Actually, I thought PR was trying to shift focus away from either of them being involved in the kidnapping.

With regard to the bolded, it would be nice if we didn't always say these type of things, like "well, we don't know that he didn't", etc. -- if there is absolutely zero evidence of something occurring, we have to assume it never occurred. Otherwise, we can just throw any old speculation out there. I just think it doesn't help any, but that's just my opinion.

Agree to disagree on the note; I can only speak from putting myself in his shoes: if the note was addressed to me, my business, my bonus amount, my background (southern charm), and directly spoke to me .... and I suspected my own wife of writing it.....s..t would hit the fan. I wouldn't just say, "well, my daughter just turned up dead and obviously my wife knows something I don't because it's her writing; I guess I'll just go ahead and protect her." I will never understand that line of reasoning, but that's okay; you have your opinion and I have mine. I'd either assume that: one, she's trying to protect herself and blame me/my business/etc. for my daughter suddenly disappearing or two, she's bat-sh.t crazy and is hiding my daughter from me, perhaps with the intent to get out of our marriage and run away with JBR (in which case, I would notify police immediately; I wouldn't wait to "put the pieces together" and/or until I found her body). In either scenario, again, I don't see why JR would want to suddenly protect his wife and unnecessarily insert himself into a risky game he had no idea about from the get-go. Why? Because he loved his wife in general, let alone loved her enough to let her kill his own daughter and cover for her? Again, it just doesn't gel.

 

[Userid]

Yes, PR was involved. Minimally, she wrote the note. But I think she also did the staging.

If Arndt would have been half a detective, she could have picked up on that verbal clue, imo.

How much more inside can you get than FAMILY?. And why wouldn't JR want her to know? Or maybe it was just another spontaneous utterance. I think there would be a good point in it. Give her a clue, then let the detectives do their jobs. Help end this stupid kidnapping nightmare.

He also told Fr. Rol something to the effect that, "I don't think he meant to kill her, because she was wrapped in a blanket."

I think JR knew who killed her and who covered for him.

There's no way he could have known that without speaking to PR and/or BR before finding the body. If PR staged it before he found the body, and didn't tell him, he wouldn't have known especially due to the staging.

 

[UKGuy]

There's no way he could have known that without speaking to PR and/or BR before finding the body. If PR staged it before he found the body, and didn't tell him, he wouldn't have known especially due to the staging.

Userid,
Of course. How does he know to have a story ready for the window, or the suitcase?

It looks like BDI to me, with Patsy doing some staging, then there is a revision, hence the need for JR's basement explanations, then they settle on the RN scenario.

You have to wonder if Pam' Paugh got away with the broken glass, size-12 underwear, size-6 underwear, other ligature cord, etc?

.

 

[Userid]

Userid,
Of course. How does he know to have a story ready for the window, or the suitcase?

It looks like BDI to me, with Patsy doing some staging, then there is a revision, hence the need for JR's basement explanations, then they settle on the RN scenario.

You have to wonder if Pam' Paugh got away with the broken glass, size-12 underwear, size-6 underwear, other ligature cord, etc?

.

Agreed with regard to the bolded.

I'm not BDI, but we both agree that JR and PR were pretty much in on it from the beginning (i.e. before police arrived).

An interesting thing about Pam Paugh is that, didn't she have the same exact duct tape found in her house that was used on JBR? I know she had the same tape, but I can't remember if it was just the exact brand of tape or the actual roll that the piece came from (that was applied to JBR).....I believe it was the former. Anyways, that still intrigues me. Seems like an incredible coincidence and I could never really figure this out -- why Paugh would have that.

 

[andreww]

Userid,
Of course. How does he know to have a story ready for the window, or the suitcase?

It looks like BDI to me, with Patsy doing some staging, then there is a revision, hence the need for JR's basement explanations, then they settle on the RN scenario.

You have to wonder if Pam' Paugh got away with the broken glass, size-12 underwear, size-6 underwear, other ligature cord, etc?

.

But, John may be being honest about breaking the window, and he never said anything about the suitcase that day. So there may not have been any "telepathy" going on with regards to that.

 

[Userid]

^ What about PR sleeping next to him that night? Or his account of how JBR was put to bed/sleep (definite inconsistencies there)? I'm sure there are more, but these are just off the top of my head.

 

[UKGuy]

But, John may be being honest about breaking the window, and he never said anything about the suitcase that day. So there may not have been any "telepathy" going on with regards to that.

andreww,
That's fine JR is in the clear. I'm asserting there was no need for telepathy because he was in on the staging, all the R's were complicit in the wine-cellar crime-scene.

JR has to know that JonBenet never went to bed wearing the size-12's and BR's long johns.

I reckon if the case were PDI, we would have heard more from JR and BR over the years.

I cannot begin to imagine how BR and JR relate, particularly if the case is BDI. If its JDI, BR might be on the phone for pocket money every week?

Nothing from the Paughs, complete silence, yet with all the media coverage they must realize the case will break open, once JR leaves us.

There is the outside chance there will be legal repercussions from the CBS case, with more forensic evidence being released.

Seeing JonBenet was wearing BR's long johns sealed it for me. Its not conclusive but good enough.

Also explains why we have heard nothing about BR's dna being on JonBenet. You might expect it, since, as per Patsy, BR and JonBenet shared beds.

.

 

[Tadpole12]

Thank you Tadpole.
Photo 17.7 is from John's camera. Don't bother looking for it bc you won't find it anywhere. You are correct, it was taken before the CSI's arrived that morning to document the crime scene. Someone had moved the pads from the glass table to the wet bar area.


cottonstar

ty cottonstar

https://shakedowntitle.com/2016/12/09/jonbenet-ramsey-case-insights-2-red-flags-surround-photo-17-7/

# shakedown

photo 17.7
outline

 

[Tadpole12]

https://shakedowntitle.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/file-nov-23-6-43-34-pm.jpeg


"By 0650 OFC Weiss and OFC Barklow were
photographing and fingerprinting areas of the house, and OFC Veitch had collected the ransom note."


http://radaronline.com/videos/jon-benet-ramsey-murder-crime-scene-video/

exterior darkness
Filmed in the hours after the horrifying Christmas Day discovery of six-year-old JonBenet’s cold and lifeless body
around @1:17
table notepads? camera

 

[kanzz]

There's no way he could have known that without speaking to PR and/or BR before finding the body. If PR staged it before he found the body, and didn't tell him, he wouldn't have known especially due to the staging.

OK, allow me to change that from "I think JR knew who killed her and who covered for him," to "I think JR had a hunch about who killed JB and who covered for him." - Based on his knowledge of his own family, his intuition, him knowing that was PR's handwriting, plus PR's behavior that morning. jmo

 

[AndHence]

It's very telling that when the assembled group of friends + Patsy were offering their opinions as to the author of the ransom note that morning, John was notably silent. He offered no suggestions. You'd think with all the references to his name and business, he'd have a few ideas as to who authored the letter, but in that moment was oddly quiet. As we've seen in his deposition in the Wolf case in 2002, John willfully pretends the writing looks nothing like Patsy's and he doesn't see the misspellings as intentional -- a viewpoint I hardly feel is honest given his general intellect.

 

[andreww]

^ What about PR sleeping next to him that night? Or his account of how JBR was put to bed/sleep (definite inconsistencies there)? I'm sure there are more, but these are just off the top of my head.

You are confusing what John said later to what he actually said that day. John said that morning that he had read to the kids that night. Also, he was in bed and asleep before Patsy, so how could he verify when she went to bed? She could have been fully dressed under the covers until he got up and went in to the shower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jon70]

I got a few pages in and one thing that really bothers me is the fact that the Ramseys have money, so if JR broke said window earlier in summer, why is it not fixed already? All they gotta do is ask the butler to call people and get it fixed!

 

[UKGuy]

You are confusing what John said later to what he actually said that day. John said that morning that he had read to the kids that night. Also, he was in bed and asleep before Patsy, so how could he verify when she went to bed? She could have been fully dressed under the covers until he got up and went in to the shower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

andreww,
Yes, you have the same behavior displayed here, replayed during the events of the 911 call, i.e. BR was in bed sound asleep, then its amended to suit the changing facts.

.