John Ramsey Fabricated Open Basement Window "Evidence"

[andreww]

It was mentioned by Jim Clemente and Laura Richards on Real Crime Profile on Episode 38 which posted Sep 28 2016. @ 42:15 he mentions this fact.

It is also referenced in the trilogy of books, The Day after Christmas by Investigative journalists' Nick Van der Leek and Lisa Wilson.



cottonstar

That episode is not about JBR and there is no mention of anything JBR related at the indicated time.

 

[andreww]

John not talking to Burke, not waking him up and distancing him from police.

Any parent who came upon a ransom note and thought their daughter was kidnapped would rush up to the other siblings rooms, wake them up and grill them.


cottonstar

Maybe he did? If Burke said he saw nothing, John may have felt there was no need to get him involved.

 

[Cottonstar]

That episode is not about JBR and there is no mention of anything JBR related at the indicated time.

A-
Episodes 36-40 were deleted due to the CBS lawsuit. I saved them. I promise this is legit.


cottonstar

 

[Cottonstar]

Maybe he did? If Burke said he saw nothing, John may have felt there was no need to get him involved.

Come on man


cottonstar

 

[Cottonstar]

That episode is not about JBR and there is no mention of anything JBR related at the indicated time.

"When Fleet White drove John’s nine year old son to his own home, were things still good between the two men? Evidently, but within minutes Fleet would discover something that John had withheld from him, something that rocked him to his core. When Patsy called the Whites that morning, although we don’t know the exact words she used, she expressed there was an emergency and to come to their house quickly. When the Whites arrived at the Ramsey’s home, they found out that JonBenét was missing. Within minutes, Fleet was off and searching for JonBenét. It wasn’t until after he returned to the Ramseys from dropping off Burke that he found out about the Ransom Note. But he didn’t hear about it from his best friend John. It took the officers on the scene to bring Fleet up to speed. Kind of an important detail to not tell your friend, don’t you think? After all, he summoned Fleet from his home at 06: 00 after Christmas and threw him into a nightmare situation. Then he doesn’t bother to tell him exactly what’s going on. Understandably, Fleet was pissed. How do we know this? It’s something Jim Clemente discussed in one of his Real Crime Profile podcasts about JonBenét after the CBS special aired. Unfortunately, those podcasts are no longer available so we’re unable to source or verify the exact conversation." from "The Day After Christmas (Anno Xmas Book 1)" by Nick van der Leek, Lisa Wilson


cottonstar

 

[andreww]

Here's another:
John not telling anyone about the broken window on the 26th.


cottonstar

You keep pointing to things that actually disprove your point. If John was in on it and trying to sell an intruder theory, why wouldn't he tell police that the basement window was broken? Instead he tells them that the house was locked up tight before he went to bed, and that it was still secure when he checked that morning. Willingly handing over Patsy's notepad? Why? If PDI, why not just rat her out? He's protected her ever since, so why would he simply hand it over then?

However, there certainly are things that John did and said that morning that DO point to him being in on the crime;

- Waking up at 5:30 when you have to be out of the house by 6:30 doesn't make sense to me
- We know Patsy was wearing the same clothes and likely was up all night. Yet John is up first and Patsy is still in bed. Is she wearing those clothes and feigning sleep?
- During the 911 call John is in his underwear, on the floor reading the note. Yet 3 minutes later when the first officer arrives, John is fully dressed and has managed to check all the doors and windows, including a trip to the garage to check that entrance. In 3 minutes?
- Lack of contact between John and Patsy indicates that something was up between them.

 

[andreww]

"When Fleet White drove John’s nine year old son to his own home, were things still good between the two men? Evidently, but within minutes Fleet would discover something that John had withheld from him, something that rocked him to his core. When Patsy called the Whites that morning, although we don’t know the exact words she used, she expressed there was an emergency and to come to their house quickly. When the Whites arrived at the Ramsey’s home, they found out that JonBenét was missing. Within minutes, Fleet was off and searching for JonBenét. It wasn’t until after he returned to the Ramseys from dropping off Burke that he found out about the Ransom Note. But he didn’t hear about it from his best friend John. It took the officers on the scene to bring Fleet up to speed. Kind of an important detail to not tell your friend, don’t you think? After all, he summoned Fleet from his home at 06: 00 after Christmas and threw him into a nightmare situation. Then he doesn’t bother to tell him exactly what’s going on. Understandably, Fleet was pissed. How do we know this? It’s something Jim Clemente discussed in one of his Real Crime Profile podcasts about JonBenét after the CBS special aired. Unfortunately, those podcasts are no longer available so we’re unable to source or verify the exact conversation." from "The Day After Christmas (Anno Xmas Book 1)" by Nick van der Leek, Lisa Wilson


cottonstar

From that passage we don't even know if Fleet had even seen John upon his arrival. Maybe Patsy tells him that JB is missing, Fleet heads to the basement, and by the time John sees him he just figures Fleet is already up to speed. There were a lot of people in that house and I doubt John kept each one up to date as to what had happened.Its just a weak argument. Do you actually believe that John didn't tell Fleet about the note hoping that everyone would just forget about it?

 

[Cottonstar]

From that passage we don't even know if Fleet had even seen John upon his arrival. Maybe Patsy tells him that JB is missing, Fleet heads to the basement, and by the time John sees him he just figures Fleet is already up to speed. There were a lot of people in that house and I doubt John kept each one up to date as to what had happened.Its just a weak argument. Do you actually believe that John didn't tell Fleet about the note hoping that everyone would just forget about it?

It's called distancing. Perhaps, at the moment he didn't want Fleet to see the note bc he knew he would recognize the writing and know something was up. John and Fleet did meet and talk before Arndt arrived with a copy of the note. Most notably, in Burke's room when they were "awaking" him and Fleet made Burke's bed while he was getting ready to go to the Whites.


cottonstar

 

[Cottonstar]

You keep pointing to things that actually disprove your point. If John was in on it and trying to sell an intruder theory, why wouldn't he tell police that the basement window was broken? Instead he tells them that the house was locked up tight before he went to bed, and that it was still secure when he checked that morning. Willingly handing over Patsy's notepad? Why? If PDI, why not just rat her out? He's protected her ever since, so why would he simply hand it over then?

However, there certainly are things that John did and said that morning that DO point to him being in on the crime;

- Waking up at 5:30 when you have to be out of the house by 6:30 doesn't make sense to me
- We know Patsy was wearing the same clothes and likely was up all night. Yet John is up first and Patsy is still in bed. Is she wearing those clothes and feigning sleep?
- During the 911 call John is in his underwear, on the floor reading the note. Yet 3 minutes later when the first officer arrives, John is fully dressed and has managed to check all the doors and windows, including a trip to the garage to check that entrance. In 3 minutes?
- Lack of contact between John and Patsy indicates that something was up between them.

He wasn't trying to sell the intruder theory at that time.

The fact that he didn't mention the window to LE from the numerous trips to the basement shows he knew from the beginning of everything that happened and was involved with the cover-up from the start.


cottonstar

 

[andreww]

He wasn't trying to sell the intruder theory at that time.

The fact that he didn't mention the window to LE from the numerous trips to the basement shows he knew from the beginning of everything that happened and was involved with the cover-up from the start.


cottonstar

Sorry, that's some f'ed up reasoning. Let me get this straight, you are saying John was complicit in staging the house to appear that a kidnapping/intruder event had taken place, yet when cops are there he is not trying to sell an intruder theory? And the fact that he didn't try and sell it proves he is in on it???


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[icedtea4me]

Seriously?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. Seriously.

 

[kanzz]

John not talking to Burke, not waking him up and distancing him from police.

Any parent who came upon a ransom note and thought their daughter was kidnapped would rush up to the other siblings rooms, wake them up and grill them.


cottonstar

imo, It wouldn't be safe for us to assume that JR believed his daughter had been kidnapped if/when he recognized PR's handwriting in the RN and was trying to piece things together. He knew BR had issues.

 

[andreww]

imo, It wouldn't be safe for us to assume that JR believed his daughter had been kidnapped if/when he recognized PR's handwriting in the RN and was trying to piece things together. He knew BR had issues.

Exactly. John wakes up knowing nothing, he recognizes Patsy's handwriting and starts to suspect. If indeed Burke had issues, who does he suspect? What if he's wrong? So he goes along with it, cautiously.

 

[Userid]

Have you seen photo 17.7?


cottonstar

I don't believe so. Do you have it (or the link)?

 

[Cottonstar]

Exactly. John wakes up knowing nothing, he recognizes Patsy's handwriting and starts to suspect. If indeed Burke had issues, who does he suspect? What if he's wrong? So he goes along with it, cautiously.

I've given you a solid 6-8 reasons that John was involved before he saw the ransom note. 1 or 2 you can explain away like you do. When you put them all together then you have a pattern of evidence that you cannot ignore.


cottonstar

 

[kanzz]

Have you seen photo 17.7?


cottonstar

Yes. And?

But if you want to discuss a photo, please either post the photo or a link.

 

[kanzz]

I've given you a solid 6-8 reasons that John was involved before he saw the ransom note. 1 or 2 you can explain away like you do. When you put them all together then you have a pattern of evidence that you cannot ignore.


cottonstar

Your interpretations / opinions are not the same things as solid reasons.

 

[andreww]

I've given you a solid 6-8 reasons that John was involved before he saw the ransom note. 1 or 2 you can explain away like you do. When you put them all together then you have a pattern of evidence that you cannot ignore.


cottonstar

I'm not sure you have, but whatever. For the most part they all involve convoluted thinking.

Answer these questions logicaly please...

- Why would John tell cops that he had ensured and re-checked that the house was secure given the fact that you seem to think he was up all night staging a kidnapping by an intruder?

- Why, when John was in the basement searching for an entry point, wouldn't he mention the broken window? It was an easy out!

- Why would John hand over the Ransom note pad if he knew it was written on it?

- Why did John's demeanour change after he disappeared for an hour and a half? Surely if he knew JB was dead all along, he would have no reason to change his mood?

 

[Userid]

^ I can't answer for her, but there are answers here:

1. You are missing the point. The point is, that the intruder was also someone familiar with the home (i.e. an "insider"..."an inside job"). An insider would know their way in and out of the house without leaving any trace behind (key perhaps), just as they would know JR's bonus.

2. Because he knew (or at the very least, thought) it could be easily explained after the fact by someone -- a maid, etc.

3. Because he had no other options and/or because he realized it would look suspicious if he went out of his way to not give up the pad. That, or he wasn't involved in the writing the note -- he was busy covering up the crime and tending to the body. Think about it: you have these 2 writing pads in plain view of every single police officer in the home that day -- and you're not going to hand them over? Especially if he was asked for samples while in the immediate vicinity of the writing pads with the officer?

4. His demeanor could have changed because he realized there was no way out; meaning, the cops were still at the home and his anxiety was now ramping up at the fact that his original plan (to dispose of the body) had to change now. "The walls were starting to close" so to speak.

 

[kanzz]

^ I can't answer for her, but there are answers here:

1. You are missing the point. The point is, that the intruder was also someone familiar with the home (i.e. an "insider"..."an inside job"). An insider would know their way in and out of the house without leaving any trace behind (key perhaps), just as they would know JR's bonus.

2. Because he knew (or at the very least, thought) it could be easily explained after the fact by someone -- a maid, etc.

3. Because he had no other options and/or because he realized it would look suspicious if he went out of his way to not give up the pad. That, or he wasn't involved in the writing the note -- he was busy covering up the crime and tending to the body. Think about it: you have these 2 writing pads in plain view of every single police officer in the home that day -- and you're not going to hand them over? Especially if he was asked for samples while in the immediate vicinity of the writing pads with the officer?

4. His demeanor could have changed because he realized there was no way out; meaning, the cops were still at the home and his anxiety was now ramping up at the fact that his original plan (to dispose of the body) had to change now. "The walls were starting to close" so to speak.

While that is one way of looking at it, another way of looking at it is that JR might not have known anything about what happened that night until PR showed him that phony RN. imo, it is a possibility. And I don't think there is anything that can absolutely rule out that possibility.