John Ramsey's Role

[solosamtheman]

But, it didn't seem outlandish to the detectives, or the CASKU unit of the FBI that investigates child abduction and serial killers, on a daily basis. I would tend to think that this would be agroup of investigators who have "seen it all."

There's been a lot of specualtion, whether or not Patsy had a touch of one of the "Cluster B" disorders... and I think there is a strong possibility of that. Several of the Cluster B disorders abuse/use sex as a means to control, or, have some kind of problem with it, (such as sexual addiction). (What comes to mind is Sante & Kenny Kimes.)

To me, John is full blown narcissist. But that's

jmho, of course.

A friend of mine has been working with sex offenders for some time now and as far as a mother abusing her daughter in that way is nothing new to him and as far as an older brother abusing his little sister in that way is surely nothing new to him. When I consider his job, it makes me think I might prefer being a test dummy.

 

[solosamtheman]

Does anyone still believe that it could have happened this way? John may have been molesting JB and Patsy walked in and saw what he was doing, she then swings an object at John and hits JB in the head instead. This is what I thought way back in 96 but have changed my mind since, believing that it was Patsy that lost it and pushed or shoved JB in her bathroom and she hit her head on a fixture, the rest was a cover up.

I don't particularly believe that happened but let me throw this one at you since I have a freind who works with offenders. While he never discusses any one person in particular he does share alot about the profiles. motives, actions and factors involved in that kind of activity. One item of interest in relation to what you've suggested is that in the cases where a father has molested his own daughter they almost always mention a striking likeness of the daughter to her mother. In other words they look alike. And interestingly they never seem to connect it to the reason why they did it but they almost always mention it. Ever notice how much JonBenet looked like Patsy?

 

[Nehemiah]

I resurrected this thread from 2004 because it highlights, in my opinion, 2 very important statements from Patsy and John.

If you scroll down and read, Bluecrab points out Patsy's interview regarding the morning that she found the ransom note. She states that 'John came up from the basement screaming'. This interview was excerpted from the NE book.

The second questionable statement is from a "Larry King Live" interview in
2009 regarding John finding the body, where John says 'there were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning'.

Thinking about the GJ's vote to indict, I think these statements by the Ramseys themselves are interesting and may hold a well defined role.

 

[UKGuy]

I resurrected this thread from 2004 because it highlights, in my opinion, 2 very important statements from Patsy and John.

If you scroll down and read, Bluecrab points out Patsy's interview regarding the morning that she found the ransom note. She states that 'John came up from the basement screaming'. This interview was excerpted from the NE book.

The second questionable statement is from a "Larry King Live" interview in
2009 regarding John finding the body, where John says 'there were a lot of people there at 3:00 in the morning'.

Thinking about the GJ's vote to indict, I think these statements by the Ramseys themselves are interesting and may hold a well defined role.

Nehemiah,
JR's demeanour seems to be at odds with his demeanour later when he discovers JonBenet in the wine-cellar lifting her in his arms and transporting her upstairs!

.

 

[emmavoberry]

Brother Moon,
First of all depth psychology is only one way t look at the human psyche. Second, character/personality disorders are not classified as mental illnesses. Sociopaths are not mentally ill. There's pretty much a consensus now that those conditions we term mental illnesses have a biological/genetic basis.

 

[UKGuy]

Brother Moon,
First of all depth psychology is only one way t look at the human psyche. Second, character/personality disorders are not classified as mental illnesses. Sociopaths are not mentally ill. There's pretty much a consensus now that those conditions we term mental illnesses have a biological/genetic basis.

emmavoberry,
What, no free choice, are you a zadokite?


.

 

[midwest mama]

Some interesting info from: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer/primer5_ce.html


Seems JR did not have to completely fulfill his role of supplying as many handwriting samples as were asked for from him:

There is some confusion about the total number of samples John provided. While the affidavit states he had already given three samples by early January, according to the 2/18/97 Denver Post, John was asked verbally by the BPD to submit a third handwriting sample in mid-February. According to the article, his attorneys said they needed something more substantial than a verbal request before they allowed him to oblige; it was apparently never pursued. To add to the confusion, John's attorney Bryan Morgan stated in the documentary that John gave two handwriting samples altogether, and Patsy, five.

It should be noted that Det. Linda Arndt reportedly handed over a copy of the ransom note to Lee Foreman of the Ramsey team the first week of January, so the Ramseys had access to the note prior to giving most of the handwriting samples.

Now, what does not make sense to me is why, once they had seen the ransom note, there are skids put on John giving extra samples requested by BPD, but Patsy went on to give more. And why, if Patsy had seen the writing, and had 'as many different writing styles as a sixth grader' (quoted elsewhere), would she have not tried her best for samples to appear completely different from resembling the note if she was concerned about trying to hide guilt?

 

[BOESP]

Brother Moon,
First of all depth psychology is only one way t look at the human psyche. Second, character/personality disorders are not classified as mental illnesses. Sociopaths are not mentally ill. There's pretty much a consensus now that those conditions we term mental illnesses have a biological/genetic basis.

While I agree with almost all you said above the biological/genetic aspect of it is psychopathy and defines the psychopath (as opposed to the sociopath).

The old nature versus nurture has been debated for decades and legal insanity is another different ball of wax.

 

[midwest mama]

I've posted before about the new Mrs. Ramsey's resemblance to JB's looks. Today I checked out the Ramsey wedding photo that BOESP posted on Media Links, and couldn't believe the resemblance between the young Melinda and Patsy! The photo of the kids is posted right beside Patsy's solo wedding shot, and when you compare their looks, it's uncanny.

Just seems odd that JR would be attracted to women (both about 13-14 years younger than him at the time) who would bear such a close resemblance to his young daughters. :moo:

 

[madeleine]

Pfffff.....beautiful!

Reading Kolar's book and there is this part re the polygraphs....so John Ramsey's argument when saying no was my lawyers advised me not to and the reason is I might not pass because all the guilt I am feeling for not being able to protect her.....awwwwww,so touching!

THIS coming from a man/DAD who after finding out that one child was kidnapped didn't even bother to wake the other one up or at least check whether he is still alive or not......

:stormingmad:

 

[midwest mama]

Pfffff.....beautiful!

Reading Kolar's book and there is this part re the polygraphs....so John Ramsey's argument when saying no was my lawyers advised me not to and the reason is I might not pass because all the guilt I am feeling for not being able to protect her.....awwwwww,so touching!

THIS coming from a man/DAD who after finding out that one child was kidnapped didn't even bother to wake the other one up or at least check whether he is still alive or not.....
:stormingmad:

Naw - that coming from a DAD who LIED about his son being in that bed - knowing full well that he was OK because poor Burke was standing there as the call was made, being told tersely by his caring father, "we're not speaking to you."

 

[madeleine]

btw....he told SL that he found JB at 11.....did he say AM??or just 11 and everybody assumed he meant AM?
is it possible he meant 11 pm,the night before?

 

[UKGuy]

btw....he told SL that he found JB at 11.....did he say AM??or just 11 and everybody assumed he meant AM?
is it possible he meant 11 pm,the night before?

madeleine,
Could be, but that is a little earlier than we have all assumed, but not impossible ?




.

 

[DeeDee249]

btw....he told SL that he found JB at 11.....did he say AM??or just 11 and everybody assumed he meant AM?
is it possible he meant 11 pm,the night before?

Even so, he was lying about that too. If he found her at 11 pm, they were all still AWAKE when she was kidnapped, sexually assaulted screamed, strangled and had perps walking around the kitchen writing the note, etc. Why wait till 6 am to make a 911 call? Why not call while the perps are still in the house?
Obviously, he meant 11 am, and I think he slipped. He and Patsy had been to the wine cellar crime scene HOURS before they made the 911 call.

 

[madeleine]

no,I was thinking that maybe if BDI something happened after JB and BR had a little snack and maybe went down to the basement because BR wanted to unwrap more gifts....something happened there....JR wasn't asleep and when wanting to put the kids to bed,he looked for JB ,didn't find her,went down to the basement knowing that they might play there...hoopla....JB lying there dead or unconscious...it is possible that he DID find her (dead or still alive,no idea) at 11 PM that night and maybe this was the slip

just a scenario

 

[madeleine]

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20580704,00.html

Patsy, found themselves the focus of the police investigation. That's when his thoughts turned to suicide. "I wanted an escape from the pain," he says. "Patsy said, 'Don't you dare leave me alone with this mess.'"

hmmm....the mess created by whom?him?



"Her face has a sweet look of peace," he recalls in his book, a description that contrasts strikingly with the gruesome autopsy photos. "The worst moment was when I realized she was missing, not when I found her," he explains. "I found her and she was back in my arms."

you GOTTA be kidding me!



"I was almost more angry at the police than at the killer,"

oh I bet you were



They sought therapy for themselves and for Burke. "I don't know if it helped," Ramsey says of his son. "Probably."

we'll see



"Forgiveness is not saying to the killer, "Oh, it's okay," he says. "Forgiveness is a gift to give yourself."

it's all about ME ME ME ME ME again :banghead:

 

[madeleine]

he wanted to escape from the pain he and was thinking of suicide....but at the same time he says on tv and everywhere that they are healing,want to move on because you gotta forgive the killer...I think he thought of suicide but for a different reason...GUILT...not pain,I never saw him in pain....so much BS coming out of his mouth my head is spinning

 

[otg]

(snipped)

"Her face has a sweet look of peace," he recalls in his book, a description that contrasts strikingly with the gruesome autopsy photos. "The worst moment was when I realized she was missing, not when I found her," he explains. "I found her and she was back in my arms."

you GOTTA be kidding me!

She was never "back in (his) arms" when he brought her cold, dead body up from the basement. He held her stiff, stinking body out at arm's length like he was carrying out last week's forgotten garbage (which is exactly how he and Patsy treated her after that).

 

[madeleine]

I wanted to watch the AC JR interview cynic posted in the media links thread but had to stop after part 2.don't these media people do their homework anymore,wth,disgusting.
anyway,I don't understand wth Ramsey wants....he was lucky enough to get away with it (whatever IT means)...he DOESN'T want any killer found,it's CRISTAL CLEAR...so wth does he want from me?why is he still on TV full of BS?narcissism?what is it?

 

[madeleine]

it's not the first time he's saying it,he doesn't want a trial because he doesn't wanna face the gruesome details....nobody forces him to,he can lock himself in a cell until it's over and the killer is in jail...but it's not about that isn't it...
anyway,interesting body language and all those sighs and pauses when asked about a possible trial...........of course he doesn't wanna be present and we all know why