Patsy's comment is very telling...."Leaving her alone with this MESS". Using the word "mess" is not how the INNOCENT grieving parents of a murdered child would describe the event. But- "mess" is how GUILTY parents of a murdered child might describe the event- it sure was a mess- one they had gotten themselves into and now had to make sure they cleaned up.
John Ramsey's Role
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madeleine
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"The worst moment was when I realized she was missing, not when I found her," he explains.
another huge red flag (reminds me of Kolar's example,S.Peterson asking about cadaver dogs when his wife was still considered a missing person not a dead one)....what JR says here happens after months/years of torture,your kid is missing and you fear the worst,you don't know what happened and you want some closer and you think,I just wanna find her,even if dead(cause in your heart you know after so much time),you want her remains,she deserves to be home and a funeral,etc......this DOESN'T happen just a few hours after she went missing!!dunno where he read or saw about how a parent acts in such situations but he BLEW it.....he screwed up again like it happened with the grieving stages,they went straight to acceptance....
what bothers me the most is the RELIEF I am seeing whenever they open their mouths....if BDI alone,why?it's almost like they're glad....finally problem out of their way....
another huge red flag (reminds me of Kolar's example,S.Peterson asking about cadaver dogs when his wife was still considered a missing person not a dead one)....what JR says here happens after months/years of torture,your kid is missing and you fear the worst,you don't know what happened and you want some closer and you think,I just wanna find her,even if dead(cause in your heart you know after so much time),you want her remains,she deserves to be home and a funeral,etc......this DOESN'T happen just a few hours after she went missing!!dunno where he read or saw about how a parent acts in such situations but he BLEW it.....he screwed up again like it happened with the grieving stages,they went straight to acceptance....
what bothers me the most is the RELIEF I am seeing whenever they open their mouths....if BDI alone,why?it's almost like they're glad....finally problem out of their way....
madeleine
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I forgot....what I also find amusing is that he now thinks it was someone who wanted revenge and hated HIM...what a coincidence,LS died and so did his theory that it was a sadistic pedo....or maybe JR became wiser and realized that the J.Douglas theory at least makes a bit of sense...
madeleine
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awww Cynic you deserve a slap lol
I had a bit of time and decided to watch all those JR interviews re his new book that you posted after all
dunno whether to laugh or cry or :banghead::stormingmad:
this man is going on and on and on and insults my intelligence every step of the way
and I was right,he dropped the pedo did it campaign and is now promoting JD's theory
smart
but I wonder why the change?does he want people to forget about JB being sexually assaulted?
anyway,I am glad he found happiness on the other side of "suffering"
most of the parents of missing or murdered victims I have been watching DON'T...not until they found out who did it and why...but then again,maybe JR is special and I don't get him
uke:
I had a bit of time and decided to watch all those JR interviews re his new book that you posted after all
dunno whether to laugh or cry or :banghead::stormingmad:
this man is going on and on and on and insults my intelligence every step of the way
and I was right,he dropped the pedo did it campaign and is now promoting JD's theory
smart
but I wonder why the change?does he want people to forget about JB being sexually assaulted?
anyway,I am glad he found happiness on the other side of "suffering"
most of the parents of missing or murdered victims I have been watching DON'T...not until they found out who did it and why...but then again,maybe JR is special and I don't get him
uke:
madeleine
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how many hours did he spent looking for the killer or at the police station and how many hours on tv whining and defending himself?(cause HE was the victim in all this)
how can he speak so much about HIS suffering saying at the same time that she didn't suffer because God takes care of all children when they die?she was hit in the head,strangled and sexually assaulted and left alone in the cold dark basement.nah she didn't suffer at all.
how can he speak so much about HIS suffering saying at the same time that she didn't suffer because God takes care of all children when they die?she was hit in the head,strangled and sexually assaulted and left alone in the cold dark basement.nah she didn't suffer at all.
questfortrue
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JR may have felt JD had more notoriety/fame in criminal profiling, so what JD said would be accepted as true. Probably also want to distance the death from the sexual assault.awww Cynic you deserve a slap lol
I had a bit of time and decided to watch all those JR interviews re his new book that you posted after all
dunno whether to laugh or cry or :banghead::stormingmad:
this man is going on and on and on and insults my intelligence every step of the way
and I was right,he dropped the pedo did it campaign and is now promoting JD's theory
smart
but I wonder why the change?does he want people to forget about JB being sexually assaulted?
anyway,I am glad he found happiness on the other side of "suffering"
most of the parents of missing or murdered victims I have been watching DON'T...not until they found out who did it and why...but then again,maybe JR is special and I don't get him
And another sad thought, as if this case wasn’t sad enough, many hospice workers feel that hearing is the last to go when someone is dying. I shudder what JB might have heard.
otg
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If it is any consolation, she probably heard nothing. After the head blow, she was completely unconscious.
madeleine
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but if the head blow happened during the sexual assault then she heard one enough...poor thing....I can't believe how unlucky she was...one of the males in her family abusing her,her own mom deciding to cover up,it all happened in a place where money talks and DA's have their own agendas... and her father still slanders her memory and what happened to her by keep changing his theory (while smiling and being happy happy joy joy like he's high or something) ....it's just not fair
I might end up agreeing with the Ramseys...maybe she is indeed in a better place now....
questfortrue
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Several have mentioned the mental component of the parents, and in particular recently, about JR. A poster named “sprocket” mentioned some time back that it was his/her opinion JR was a narcissist. Midwest mama has said in reviewing TOTOS that there is something still wrong with JR.
The Mayo clinic has a very descriptive snippet about narcissists which most likely everyone here is somewhat acquainted with, but there are some other researchers who have brought out a couple of other thoughts about narcissism. One researcher builds a very tight connection between child molestation and parental narcissism. That’s not to say that all narcissists are child molesters or that all child molesters are narcissists. “Because child sexual abuse is weirdly done with affection, the attention is disingenuous. So, how would the child know? It is not what it appears to be, similar to other kinds of narcissistic parenting.” – K. McBride, PhD.
I did not recognize previously that many times a narcissistic parent will treat their children as inferior or not particularly noteworthy in their achievements. But yet a common exception to the general rule of being treated as inferior is the treatment of the family "golden child", whom the narcissistic parent will treat as exceptional, superior and entitled. who is idolized. (Beth? JB?)
Another key component shared by narcissists is the inability to process shame. For me the tie in is JR’s ability to go onto TV in interviews for his books and have no sense of “shame” regarding the lies being perpetrated. But as DeeDee notes, after a time liars believe their own lies anyway.
JMHO.
The Mayo clinic has a very descriptive snippet about narcissists which most likely everyone here is somewhat acquainted with, but there are some other researchers who have brought out a couple of other thoughts about narcissism. One researcher builds a very tight connection between child molestation and parental narcissism. That’s not to say that all narcissists are child molesters or that all child molesters are narcissists. “Because child sexual abuse is weirdly done with affection, the attention is disingenuous. So, how would the child know? It is not what it appears to be, similar to other kinds of narcissistic parenting.” – K. McBride, PhD.
I did not recognize previously that many times a narcissistic parent will treat their children as inferior or not particularly noteworthy in their achievements. But yet a common exception to the general rule of being treated as inferior is the treatment of the family "golden child", whom the narcissistic parent will treat as exceptional, superior and entitled. who is idolized. (Beth? JB?)
Another key component shared by narcissists is the inability to process shame. For me the tie in is JR’s ability to go onto TV in interviews for his books and have no sense of “shame” regarding the lies being perpetrated. But as DeeDee notes, after a time liars believe their own lies anyway.
JMHO.
madeleine
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ITA with DogC on one thing...
WHY did they rule out JR as the RN writer so quickly?Huge mistake
If you look at these comparisons...
http://www.examina.net/FaustoWeb/ramsey.htm
http://www.examina.net/FaustoWeb/1.htm
wow.....
I didn't wanna open this subject again because I know many will disagree with me....but...those experts who claimed PR wrote it were hired for a civil suit (R vs. Wolf)...basically they did what lawyers usually do....support their clients version....
WHY did they rule out JR as the RN writer so quickly?Huge mistake
If you look at these comparisons...
http://www.examina.net/FaustoWeb/ramsey.htm
http://www.examina.net/FaustoWeb/1.htm
wow.....
I didn't wanna open this subject again because I know many will disagree with me....but...those experts who claimed PR wrote it were hired for a civil suit (R vs. Wolf)...basically they did what lawyers usually do....support their clients version....
madeleine
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if JDI it's crystal clear...do you really see someone like AH or ML having the strength,guts or character to accuse someone like JR (surrounded by his top lawyers) of sexual abuse and murder?LOL
incompetent chickens
the only problem with this murder is that it happened in the wrong town and while these kind of people were in charge of the DA office
incompetent chickens
the only problem with this murder is that it happened in the wrong town and while these kind of people were in charge of the DA office
Some years back, someone falsified JR's exemplars to match the RN. They used a software program, which made it seem that JR's writing matched the note. This is false. JR's true handwriting never matched the note, and it was examined closely at the time. ONLY Patsy was unable to be ruled out. Keep in mind that in the absence of eyewitness accounts (someone SEEING her write it) or visual proof (a video of her writing it), her handwriting can only me matched in the sense of not being ruled out or the probability of her being the author.
JR was NEVER considered a likely author of the note.
JR was NEVER considered a likely author of the note.
It's not like handwriting comparison is a science. No way should the investigators have taken the findings seriously.
midwest mama
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JR himself said that in the beginning BPD was convinced he wrote the note and killed his daughter - that's why they hired the team to "prepare a defense" for him.
The most incriminating comparison in the RN to the possibility of JR writing the note, IMHO, and believe me, I claim NO expertise in evaluating handwriting, is the word "account". It appears in the note, and in JR's public exemplar (the short one written to a contractor). It just looks very, very similar to me, but without the normal slant JR would use, quite easily accomplished by tilting the paper a bit when written by a backslant writer.
JR himself also said he took a pen and paper in hand and wrote his letter to Alex Hunter, which was then hand delivered, with regard to his view of the progress of the case. Wow, what I wouldn't give to see a copy of that hand-written letter to AH from JR!
The most incriminating comparison in the RN to the possibility of JR writing the note, IMHO, and believe me, I claim NO expertise in evaluating handwriting, is the word "account". It appears in the note, and in JR's public exemplar (the short one written to a contractor). It just looks very, very similar to me, but without the normal slant JR would use, quite easily accomplished by tilting the paper a bit when written by a backslant writer.
JR himself also said he took a pen and paper in hand and wrote his letter to Alex Hunter, which was then hand delivered, with regard to his view of the progress of the case. Wow, what I wouldn't give to see a copy of that hand-written letter to AH from JR!
madeleine
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:drumroll:thank you
weren't there also some who claimed JMK wrote it?and the ones who claimed CW wrote it?just shows how unreliable these "experts" are
Yes, some "experts" definitely thought it was JMK's handwriting. I got interested in this case shortly before the JMK nonsense started, so I remember that.
madeleine
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was this a slip but he managed to save himself in time?
if he went down 2 times BEFORE 1:00,this means he was there 3 times
1 A. I was in the house. That is
2 probably the best I could tell you.
3 Q. Did you ever have occasion prior to,
4 say, 1:00 in the afternoon to go down to the
5 basement?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. How many times?
8 A. Twice.
9 Q. Prior to 1:00?
10 A. I don't know what time it was. I
11 wasn't paying attention.
12 Q. Prior to the time that I believe it
13 was Linda Arndt had asked people to begin looking
14 around the house?
15 A. Linda Arndt asked me to look around
16 the house, yes.
17 Q. Did she ask anybody else to do it?
18 A. I don't remember her specific
19 instruction, no.
20 Q. Prior to Linda Arndt asking you to
21 look around the house, how many times did you go
22 to the basement?
23 A. Once.
if he went down 2 times BEFORE 1:00,this means he was there 3 times
1 A. I was in the house. That is
2 probably the best I could tell you.
3 Q. Did you ever have occasion prior to,
4 say, 1:00 in the afternoon to go down to the
5 basement?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. How many times?
8 A. Twice.
9 Q. Prior to 1:00?
10 A. I don't know what time it was. I
11 wasn't paying attention.
12 Q. Prior to the time that I believe it
13 was Linda Arndt had asked people to begin looking
14 around the house?
15 A. Linda Arndt asked me to look around
16 the house, yes.
17 Q. Did she ask anybody else to do it?
18 A. I don't remember her specific
19 instruction, no.
20 Q. Prior to Linda Arndt asking you to
21 look around the house, how many times did you go
22 to the basement?
23 A. Once.
midwest mama
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and the % references, which JR openly used in public appearances and LE interviews........
midwest mama
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Perfect example of how easy it is to confuse lies. Truth always comes out the same. And don't anyone try to tell me it was because of the "trying circumstances". We're talking about JR - who greeted Arndt cordially and was observed laughing and joking that day. And who also said himself that he was the one who had to keep a cool head - remain calm and capable.
But this is also the man who was on anti-depressive medication and contemplated suicide, and demonstrated seething anger beyond anything Patsy ever did.
As I've said before - something is not right about JR, and I believe it was exaggerated by losing Beth, and quietly escalating to what I wonder were almost schizophrenic-like tendencies appearing in JR. There's been mention of multiple personality disorder being akin to Patsy, but why can't we consider JR a candidate?