John Ramsey's Role

[madeleine]

Perfect example of how easy it is to confuse lies. Truth always comes out the same. And don't anyone try to tell me it was because of the "trying circumstances". We're talking about JR - who greeted Arndt cordially and was observed laughing and joking that day. And who also said himself that he was the one who had to keep a cool head - remain calm and capable.

But this is also the man who was on anti-depressive medication and contemplated suicide, and demonstrated seething anger beyond anything Patsy ever did.

As I've said before - something is not right about JR, and I believe it was exaggerated by losing Beth, and quietly escalating to what I wonder were almost schizophrenic-like tendencies appearing in JR. There's been mention of multiple personality disorder being akin to Patsy, but why can't we consider JR a candidate?

he was smiling all the time at the funeral as well...okay,maybe people were nice and stuff...but keep smiling?at your daughters funeral who was only 6 and brutally murdered because of you ?beyond my understanding.

and re his/their mental health....maybe I am exaggerating ...but IMO he suffers a bit from MSBP...with everything he says he wants to obtain one thing/reaction>people to feel sorry for him

his new toy,his book....it's not okay for Burke...if he really cares for his son and wants to protect him...be quiet and maybe people will forget about you..no,he stirs the ( already BOILING) pot!he wants this,he likes it

 

[eileenhawkeye]

he was smiling all the time at the funeral as well...okay,maybe people were nice and stuff...but keep smiling?at your daughters funeral who was only 6 and brutally murdered because of you ?beyond my understanding.

and re his/their mental health....maybe I am exaggerating ...but IMO he suffers a bit from MSBP...with everything he says he wants to obtain one thing/reaction>people to feel sorry for him

his new toy,his book....it's not okay for Burke...if he really cares for his son and wants to protect him...be quiet and maybe people will forget about you..no,he stirs the ( already BOILING) pot!he wants this,he likes it

He can give interviews to promote his book because he knows nothing negative is going to happen. Did those interviews increase the chances of John getting arrested? Nope....

But while I don't think John minds the spotlight...he definitely doesn't take up every opportunity to talk to the media which tells me he knows when to be quiet (like when the indictment news came out).

ETA: He can give interviews about his book because they can talk about his new life, his new wife, his opinion on pageants, a new beginning for him. Basically, no questions about the events of 12/25-12/26. However, if say he were to give an interview about the indictment news or about Kolar's book, all the questions would have to do with those developments since that's the point of the interview.

 

[madeleine]

He can give interviews to promote his book because he knows nothing negative is going to happen. Did those interviews increase the chances of John getting arrested? Nope....

But while I don't think John minds the spotlight...he definitely doesn't take up every opportunity to talk to the media which tells me he knows when to be quiet (like when the indictment news came out).

but more of the lies are coming out,like the one re getting an anonymous call from someone who warned him and that's why he hired lawyers

I agree he's not afraid (a normal person would be) and this is what I am talking about...he keeps laughing in our faces

 

[eileenhawkeye]

but more of the lies are coming out,like the one re getting an anonymous call from someone who warned him and that's why he hired lawyers

I agree he's not afraid (a normal person would be) and this is what I am talking about...he keeps laughing in our faces

Wait...what anonymous call? I thought that Mike Bynum had advised John to get a lawyer? And wasn't there some speculation that the phone records might have shown John called a lawyer before Patsy called 911?

 

[madeleine]

Wait...what anonymous call? I thought that Mike Bynum had advised John to get a lawyer? And wasn't there some speculation that the phone records might have shown John called a lawyer before Patsy called 911?

If I am not mistaken (someone correct me pls if I am wrong,read a lot these days about the case and my head is spinning) Kolar mentions this in his book. (he's talking about TOSOS)

 

[midwest mama]

If I am not mistaken (someone correct me pls if I am wrong,read a lot these days about the case and my head is spinning) Kolar mentions this in his book. (he's talking about TOSOS)

You are right, madeleine. JR claimed to have received a call (through his office, IIRC) the next day after the murder from a caller who claimed to have "inside knowledge" that BPD was out to get him, and that JR should lawyer up ASAP. Of course, we know that JR had Bynum at his side already, and that the gears were already spinning to get the big wheels turning.

 

[DeeDee249]

and all those terms....I just don't see a woman using them but a man would....countermeasures,tactics,foreign faction,instructions,monitor,scrutiny....

I think it very likely that JR dictated the note. I don't believe Patsy came up with all that on her own. To me, there is no mistaking her handwriting, but JR's input is definitely obvious too.

 

[BOESP]

Just in case some of the new posters don't know, iirc, Patsy graduated magna *advertiser censored* laude with a degree in journalism. I'd say she had a good command of the written word. She also won the talent competition the year she was in the Miss America pageant representing West Virginia. Her talent was a dramatic monologue. That suggests great speaking and acting skills.

I'd guess she could be whatever she needed to be to suit her purposes.

 

[midwest mama]

Just in case some of the new posters don't know, iirc, Patsy graduated magna *advertiser censored* laude with a degree in journalism. I'd say she had a good command of the written word. She also won the talent competition the year she was in the Miss America pageant representing West Virginia. Her talent was a dramatic monologue. That suggests great speaking and acting skills.

I'd guess she could be whatever she needed to be to suit her purposes.

ITA. And, if so, why in the name of heaven, if she had so viciously killed her daughter, faked hysterics to a 911 operator, and met the first police officer in a believable state of frantic fear, did she then have to be genuinely medicated in order to get through those first days after the crime? Or did the good Dr. Bueff, who was called in by JR to care for Patsy, give her fake treatment in the presence of their friends and Pastor, allowing Patsy to continue a dramatic facade that made most people who saw the CNN appearance assume she was on sedatives at the time, while JR sat alongside exhibiting obvious clarity and just as obviously, almost non-existent emotion.

If Patsy was so good at speaking and acting and had already begun such a remarkable presentation to so many in those first few hours of the 26th, did she just keep up the charade by faking exhaustion and sleeping for hours more than usual, exhibiting despair so profound she had to be fed and physically assisted to the bathroom? Maybe she allowed herself to be actually drugged so she wouldn't have such a difficult task of continuing the acting to the degree that her behavior was reported. JR, on the other hand just stayed nearby using a mild sedative, all the while taking care of all the arrangements, forcing himself to eat, and making sure they made their personal appearances. No acting on his part..............just taking care of business and thanking people for all their kindnesses and support.

I wish he would have done some acting and screamed an obscenity into the camera on CNN and threatened to kill the SOB that killed his daughter when they caught him. At least I might have considered he actually had nothing to do with JB's death.

 

[DeeDee249]

ITA. And, if so, why in the name of heaven, if she had so viciously killed her daughter, faked hysterics to a 911 operator, and met the first police officer in a believable state of frantic fear, did she then have to be genuinely medicated in order to get through those first days after the crime? Or did the good Dr. Bueff, who was called in by JR to care for Patsy, give her fake treatment in the presence of their friends and Pastor, allowing Patsy to continue a dramatic facade that made most people who saw the CNN appearance assume she was on sedatives at the time, while JR sat alongside exhibiting obvious clarity and just as obviously, almost non-existent emotion.


.

I think she was medicated simply to keep her unfit to speak to police.

 

[BOESP]

If I or anyone in my immediate family had killed my daughter and I had to deal with it while pretending an Intruder did it I'd need medication too. She felt like appearing on television; she felt like having a PR company handle the Boulder memorial photo ops. I also agree with DeeDee's opinion that the medications prevented her from giving intelligent police interviews. Afterall, Patsy said she believed one person did it and that person had confided in another person (that's a mighty small foreign faction). When she came out with those words, John Ramsey looked at her like he couldn't believe she said it and like he wanted to put his hand across her mouth.

I found John Ramsey's early public behavior more believable and sincere than his later behavior. They both should have kept their mouths shut and stayed away from their interviews and photo ops.

Slimy and smarmy are the two words I think of when I think of John Ramsey but I don't think he was sexually abusing his daughter. As usual, jmo.

 

[TartLemon]

I never understood the house search JR did when he found JBR. The house had already been searched. LE had been notified and was on the scene. A ransom note was produced saying JBR had been kidnapped.

Why was JR compelled to search his own house again? Absolutely unfathomable to me.

IMO, someone else was supposed to discover her. When they didn't, JR decided to speed things along. I do not believe JR is responsible for her death.

There was a relief in the media; case closed with press conference and all when Patsy died. Seemed obvious to me.

 

[madeleine]

I never understood the house search JR did when he found JBR. The house had already been searched. LE had been notified and was on the scene. A ransom note was produced saying JBR had been kidnapped.

Why was JR compelled to search his own house again? Absolutely unfathomable to me.

IMO, someone else was supposed to discover her. When they didn't, JR decided to speed things along. I do not believe JR is responsible for her death.

There was a relief in the media; case closed with press conference and all when Patsy died. Seemed obvious to me.

@bold

respectfully disagree,if LE were so sure PDI and case closed when she died why did they want to re-interview BR?why did Kolar write this case is till solvable?even Garnett admitted no one is cleared and this is an on-going investigation.what Mary Lacy did (big exoneration conference) doesn't count (even if very damaging for a future prosecution)

 

[madeleine]

It's not like handwriting comparison is a science. No way should the investigators have taken the findings seriously.

unfortunately it happened :banghead:

ST's depo

1 Q. Knowing what you know about how

2 the Boulder Police Department, what would one

3 use to clear someone, what could possibly

4 clear an individual here? One would be a

5 solid alibi, right?

6 A. Yes, sir.

7 Q. Verified, right?

8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. What else?

10 A. Handwriting, certainly.

11 Q. Handwriting. That eliminated John

12 Ramsey as the author of the ransom note?

13 A. Is that a question?

14 Q. Yes.

15 A. What is your question?

16 Q. You said handwriting and I said

17 handwriting, that eliminated John Ramsey as

18 the author of the ransom note, true?

19 A. That's my understanding.

20 Q. All right. What else besides

21 alibi and handwriting?

22 A. I don't know what was being done

23 with it on the back end, but certainly a

24 polygraph examination.

25 Q. So you would eliminate based

94

1 solely on a polygraph?

2 A. No.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I never understood the house search JR did when he found JBR. The house had already been searched. LE had been notified and was on the scene. A ransom note was produced saying JBR had been kidnapped.

Why was JR compelled to search his own house again? Absolutely unfathomable to me.

IMO, someone else was supposed to discover her. When they didn't, JR decided to speed things along. I do not believe JR is responsible for her death.

There was a relief in the media; case closed with press conference and all when Patsy died. Seemed obvious to me.

I am pretty sure there was no PC when Patsy died. And I am 100% sure Boulder PD didn't announce the case was closed right after her death.

 

[UKGuy]

I never understood the house search JR did when he found JBR. The house had already been searched. LE had been notified and was on the scene. A ransom note was produced saying JBR had been kidnapped.

Why was JR compelled to search his own house again? Absolutely unfathomable to me.

IMO, someone else was supposed to discover her. When they didn't, JR decided to speed things along. I do not believe JR is responsible for her death.

There was a relief in the media; case closed with press conference and all when Patsy died. Seemed obvious to me.

TartLemon,
The case has never been closed. Everyone and their dog knows the case is not PDI. If your reckon its not JDI, by elimination that leaves BDI?

It can be demonstrated from the forensic evidence that all three Ramseys resident in the house that night were involved in the subsequent staging.

Common sense suggests there are only two candidates for the abusive role.


.

 

[Nehemiah]

Some years back, someone falsified JR's exemplars to match the RN. They used a software program, which made it seem that JR's writing matched the note. This is false. JR's true handwriting never matched the note, and it was examined closely at the time. ONLY Patsy was unable to be ruled out. Keep in mind that in the absence of eyewitness accounts (someone SEEING her write it) or visual proof (a video of her writing it), her handwriting can only me matched in the sense of not being ruled out or the probability of her being the author.
JR was NEVER considered a likely author of the note.

I was unaware about JR's exemplars being changed via software by someone. Can you direct me to where I can read more about that? Thanks.

 

[BOESP]

I never understood the house search JR did when he found JBR. The house had already been searched. LE had been notified and was on the scene. A ransom note was produced saying JBR had been kidnapped.

Why was JR compelled to search his own house again? Absolutely unfathomable to me.

IMO, someone else was supposed to discover her. When they didn't, JR decided to speed things along. I do not believe JR is responsible for her death.

There was a relief in the media; case closed with press conference and all when Patsy died. Seemed obvious to me.

Tart, iirc, both John Ramsey and Linda Arndt stated that she asked John to search the house "top to bottom" to look for anything missing or out of the ordinary. Arndt said it was to give John something to do to keep him busy. Apparently, based on all statements in the public domain, John went directly to the basement and within minutes found JonBenet in the wine cellar.

I do think it's important to remember that until JonBenet's body was found this was a kidnapping investigation, not a homicide. That involves different protocols.

I also agree with you in saying John decided to speed things along. His other children were on the way plus the pressure had to be unbearable. I also don't think he was directly responsible for her death but I do believe he was negligent in not seeing that certain situations were monitored and remedied before they got out of hand.

 

[DeeDee249]

I was unaware about JR's exemplars being changed via software by someone. Can you direct me to where I can read more about that? Thanks.

I read it right here on WS, but I don't bookmark. Maybe someone else has it saved or you can try to search it.

 

[questfortrue]

@bold

respectfully disagree,if LE were so sure PDI and case closed when she died why did they want to re-interview BR?why did Kolar write this case is till solvable?even Garnett admitted no one is cleared and this is an on-going investigation.what Mary Lacy did (big exoneration conference) doesn't count (even if very damaging for a future prosecution)

And there's still some with a "bead" on JR's participation. Here's a theory from a notable prosecutor - Wendy Murphy - which I hadn't heard before.

http://www.examiner.com/article/bos...suspect-new-investigation?cid=taboola_inbound

Thoughts. . .?