JonBenet's Other Brother

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narlacat said:
I really dont think there was an intruder....why would the Ramsey's lie and cover up for an intruder?? That doesnt make sense.
I think they would only do that for a family member.
If you look more closely at the evidence you can see that it is only Patsy that is lying and covering up. And it does make sense that she would cover up for an intruder if she knew that one or more of the intruders were her friends and had been sexually abusing JonBenet for years.
 
IMO Incest is often a "family affair" If the oldest boy had been molesting her, he probably molested her young brother...who in turn would molest his little sister as well. PR & JR probably knew, probably wanted to keep it quiet and believed they had it under control& had dealt with it. It happens all the time so it wouldn't surprise me at all. Something went terribly wrong, and her own young brother wacked her on the head with that flashlight.

JR & PR's own guilty feelings about not seeking help or handling the incest differently lead to covering it up.
 
Linda7NJ said:
IMO Incest is often a "family affair" If the oldest boy had been molesting her, he probably molested her young brother...who in turn would molest his little sister as well. PR & JR probably knew, probably wanted to keep it quiet and believed they had it under control& had dealt with it. It happens all the time so it wouldn't surprise me at all. Something went terribly wrong, and her own young brother wacked her on the head with that flashlight.

JR & PR's own guilty feelings about not seeking help or handling the incest differently lead to covering it up.
Yes I agree with you about sexual abuse commonly being within the family and involving older brothers. And that it happens all the time. In this case however, I think JAR and Burke have been thoroughly investigated, as they should have been, but nothing was ever found to suggest that either of them had shown signs of abberant sexual behaviour.

I also think that John Ramsey was oblivious to the abuse. He was away a lot and Patsy was the one who was JonBenet's primary carer. And I think she knew about the abuse and she knew who it was and one of them was quite possibly her own father, the others were friends and neighbours. She turned a blind eye to it as mothers in this situation so often do.

And I don't think it has been established that the flashlight belonged to the Ramseys. I don't think it was theirs. I think they had another one similar. But I am not sure about this. No doubt BlueCrab will correct me on this point. Even so I think there is a likelihood that it was a baseball bat that was used to hit her over the head.
 
With all due respect, I can't believe that Patsy would turn a blind eye to friends and/or neighbors sexually abusing her daughter. I have worked with abusive families, and I have known many who ignored sexual abuse within their own families. I just can't imagine that Patsy would allow friends or neighbors to harm JB in any way.
 
Quote by Aussie:

"And it does make sense that she would cover up for an intruder if she knew that one or more of the intruders were her friends and had been sexually abusing JonBenet for years."

Why would that make sense?
They're not her friends if they were molesting her little daughter for years.
 
I have read that some people think that BR was too young to molest JBR.

Well someone very close to me was raised in orphanges and foster homes and he shared that at age 5 a girl age 7 tried to have sex with him, he could not complete the act because he could not perform. Obviously he chose not to ever share this with anyone. Also in the "good christian foster homes" he was molested by TWO teen boys, in seperate families!
Embarassment keeps these boys or girls quiet,they defintely know it is wrong without ever being told it is.Young children do molest others.
I believe these things happen in the best of homes,with everyone keeping it to themselves. What parents want to admit it? even if they know they seek help and try to keep it secret,
I do not know what happened that nite at the R's but it has the earmarks of a cover-up. IF the dictionary was opened to incest, did P read about it? or someone else ?
Who knows if that is true or if it means anything,just another odd bit of info.
 
was JAR on that domestic flight for sure?
did anyone check private flights out of Atlanta on the 23rd to the 25th?
if he had one friend who was a pilot he probably had more.
actually there might be little private airports around Atlanta also.
might be worth a try.
 
aussiesheila said:
If you look more closely at the evidence you can see that it is only Patsy that is lying and covering up. And it does make sense that she would cover up for an intruder if she knew that one or more of the intruders were her friends and had been sexually abusing JonBenet for years.
Would you cover up for friends?

There has been nothing turned up in the Ramseys background to suggest they were involved in pedophilia or any other aberrant sexual behavior. Not to mention the lack of physical evidence if JonBenet had been the subject of sexual abuse by multiple people over a period of time.
 
aussiesheila said:
If you look more closely at the evidence you can see that it is only Patsy that is lying and covering up. And it does make sense that she would cover up for an intruder if she knew that one or more of the intruders were her friends and had been sexually abusing JonBenet for years.
Well, from what I've read, John is covering up too.
Both him and Patsy lied about Burke being awake that morning. Both him and Patsy lied about Burke owning Hi Tec shoes.
They both suffer from, as one poster here puts it, ramnesia.
IMO, John was very much involved in the cover up.
 
tipper said:
Would you cover up for friends?

There has been nothing turned up in the Ramseys background to suggest they were involved in pedophilia or any other aberrant sexual behavior. Not to mention the lack of physical evidence if JonBenet had been the subject of sexual abuse by multiple people over a period of time.
Regressive behaviors like soiling in her panties could be a sign.
 
simplesimon said:
I have read that some people think that BR was too young to molest JBR.

Well someone very close to me was raised in orphanges and foster homes and he shared that at age 5 a girl age 7 tried to have sex with him, he could not complete the act because he could not perform. Obviously he chose not to ever share this with anyone. Also in the "good christian foster homes" he was molested by TWO teen boys, in seperate families!
Embarassment keeps these boys or girls quiet,they defintely know it is wrong without ever being told it is.Young children do molest others.
I believe these things happen in the best of homes,with everyone keeping it to themselves. What parents want to admit it? even if they know they seek help and try to keep it secret,
I do not know what happened that nite at the R's but it has the earmarks of a cover-up. IF the dictionary was opened to incest, did P read about it? or someone else ?
Who knows if that is true or if it means anything,just another odd bit of info.
You are exactly correct, he wasn't too young to molest her. Abused children can be very sexualized at a very young age. Many times parents minimize the seriousness and naively explain it away as an innocent exploration incident.
 
EDITED

aussiesheila said:
In this case however, I think JAR and Burke have been thoroughly investigated, as they should have been, but nothing was ever found to suggest that either of them had shown signs of abberant sexual behaviour.
Throughly investigated by whom? How?
JAR wasn't present at the time, in my opinion he may have molested Burke or both JBR & Burke earlier...........Or perhaps Burke wasn't sexually abused himself, I still believe he struck her in the head. I simply can't rule him out.
 
BPD thoroughly investigated JAR. Clearing him was a condition of John Ramsey's first wife's interview. Smart of her, I'd say, given the discussion here.

The details are in ST's book.
 
tipper said:
BPD thoroughly investigated JAR. Clearing him was a condition of John Ramsey's first wife's interview. Smart of her, I'd say, given the discussion here.

The details are in ST's book.
Cleared him HOW? I am thinking his alabi cleared him of the murder, I never suggested he was the killer.
 
Nehemiah said:
With all due respect, I can't believe that Patsy would turn a blind eye to friends and/or neighbors sexually abusing her daughter. I have worked with abusive families, and I have known many who ignored sexual abuse within their own families. I just can't imagine that Patsy would allow friends or neighbors to harm JB in any way.
Yes Nehemiah, I fully agree it is very hard to believe and difficult to imagine. I acknowledge that you would know a lot about abusive families. I can't really offer anything to support my statement except to point to Patsy's very strange behaviour and suggest that she has some mental health problem. While I accept that even though it would be very unusual for a mother to behave in this way I believe it is possible. And I believe that it was true in Patsy's case.
 
capps said:
Quote by Aussie:

"And it does make sense that she would cover up for an intruder if she knew that one or more of the intruders were her friends and had been sexually abusing JonBenet for years."

Why would that make sense?
They're not her friends if they were molesting her little daughter for years.
While it would not make sense to most people, it would make sense to a person with a sufficiently warped mind as I believe was the case with Patsy; by her definition of 'friend' they were her friends.
 
narlacat said:
>>Because they didn't lie and cover up. Get over that and you won't have to worry about things like JAR and EA or prior sexual abuse. Things that there is no proof for anyway.<<

zman
How can you say the Ramsey's havent lied ??
They lied about Burke being awake that morning.
They lied about Burke owning Hi Tec shoes.

In between lying they 'cant remember' anything.
Are you and BC the same person?
There is no proof that BR was awake that morning other than on fantasy island.
They forgot BR had Hi-tec boots, maybe never even knew he did. Besides they were like 3 years old. I don't think they fit him anymore do you?
 
zman
I was going to say the same thing about you and Toth.
I dont know if they would have still fit him, but I'm sorry...I find it strange that Patsy, being the good mother that she was, doesnt remember buying Burke a pair of boots with a compass attached to them.
Just like I find it strange that Patsy just cant seem to remember what her child ate the day she died, what she wore the day she died, and whether or not her child had a bath the day she died.
 
narlacat said:
zman
I was going to say the same thing about you and Toth.
I dont know if they would have still fit him, but I'm sorry...I find it strange that Patsy, being the good mother that she was, doesnt remember buying Burke a pair of boots with a compass attached to them.
Just like I find it strange that Patsy just cant seem to remember what her child ate the day she died and what she wore the day she died, whether or not her child had a bath the day she died.

Narlacat,

Although I can see PR honestly not remembering some things,I also think it's strange that she would not remember others,such as did JB bath on Christmas.You would think after PR thought for a moment about it ... the answer would be yes or no. It's for this reason I believe it was on the advice of their lawyers to play it safe and be evasive in their answers. Bad lawyering if the Ramsey's are innocent.Too bad the Ramsey's put so much trust in them.
 
BlueCrab said:
The following is a theory based on what evidence is known to us:

JonBenet had two brothers -- Burke, age 9, and half-brother John Andrew, age 20. Fourth-grader Burke, of course, lived at home. JAR lived one mile away on campus at Colorado University, but maintained a bedroom at home.

JonBenet's murder was a sex crime. She had acute injuries to the vagina (inflicted on the night of the crime), and she had chronic injuries to the vagina (inflicted 2 or 3 days prior to the crime). The chronic injuries were verified by a panel of six doctors who analyzed the autopsy report and the microscopic slides of specimens taken during the autopsy.

JAR's blue suitcase found positioned under the basement window contained the blanket from JAR's bed, a pillow case from JAR's bed, a Dr. Seuss book with JAR's name in it, and semen from JAR on the blanket. Fibers from JAR's blanket were on JonBenet.

A breath control erotic asphyxiation device, normally used to enhance orgasms during masturbation, was found wrapped around JonBenet's neck. It had been used to strangle her. Erotic asphyxiation (EA) and autoerotic asphyxiation (AEA) are extremely dangerous methods of masturbation almost exclusively used by male teens and young adults. (EA is with a partner and AEA is by oneself.)

The presence of the EA device on JonBenet strongly suggests a young male adult was involved in this crime. The fact that JonBenet had suffered prior vaginal abuse points toward a family member or a person very close to the family. How else could JonBenet have been sexually abused on different days of the week? And since nylon fibers from the EA device were found in JonBenet's bed, it suggests the device had been used there on a previous day because JonBenet slept with Burke in Burke's room on Christmas Eve night. It appears that an older male may have made the EA device at an earlier date and had likely tutored the children in its use.

John Andrew's alibi is he was in Atlanta at the time of the crime and he has two friends as witnesses, Brad Millard and Chris Stanley, who verify they went to a movie on Christmas night, and they produced the ticket stubs as evidence. JAR's mom, Lucinda, also verifies that JAR was home with her on the 24th and 25th and left on a flight to Minneapolis on the morning of the 26th.

However, Joe Barnhill has said that he saw JAR walking to the house on Christmas day, apparently while the Ramseys were at the White's dinner party. Barnhill later recanted his story about his visual sighting of JAR.

Some sources put JAR in Atlanta on the 23rd, but I think he was in Boulder on the 23rd and had attended the Ramseys Christmas party on that night. I remember seeing a group picture of the attendees and JAR was in the left background of the photo. It was during that party that someone called 911 and hung up. When the police called back they got a voice message, so they sent a cop to the Ramseys house. Susan Stine reportedly refused to open the door and got rid of the cop by telling him through the door that everything was okay.

To place JAR in Boulder on Christmas day would mean that JAR's three witnesses in Atlanta were lying. One of the Atlanta friends was a pilot, as was Jeff Ramsey, John's brother. Could JAR have been in Boulder on the 23rd, the 24th, and the 25th, and been flown secretly to Atlanta on Christmas night in one of John Ramsey's two airplanes and be ready to be picked up at his friend's house by Melinda and her fiance early on the 26th to catch the flight to Minneapolis?

Were JonBenet and Burke sitting at the breakfast room table late that night, snacking on pineapple and sipping on tea, after the parents had gone to bed, waiting for a preplanned secret visit by JAR?

The intense Ramsey coverup of this crime has to involve a family member, and IMO that has to be either BR or JAR, or both.

BlueCrab

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