JR's story credible...?

[txsvicki]

I believe that Junior's story is extremely credible. The man was "all in black" or even possibly a black man (which I don't believe).
Anyone going into a neighborhood to do any bad stuff would dress all in black. Junior had no way to know that.

Then, the shoes squeaked. This is very credible. Shoes can squeak due to a loose sole or materials rubbing together. The mattress JR was sleeping on is on the floor near where the shoes would be. Haleigh's bed was a little higher being a toddler bed, so JR could easily be lying down there looking and hearing the man's shoes.

He says Haleigh did not wake up which could be very true. Misti has already placed JR as being awake when she went to bed, so he is possibly a light sleeper. Junior has provided the only clues in that at all besides the dogs, so I hope LE is at least considering his story.

 

[debs]

I believe that Junior's story is extremely credible. The man was "all in black" or even possibly a black man (which I don't believe).
Anyone going into a neighborhood to do any bad stuff would dress all in black. Junior had no way to know that.

Then, the shoes squeaked. This is very credible. Shoes can squeak due to a loose sole or materials rubbing together. The mattress JR was sleeping on is on the floor near where the shoes would be. Haleigh's bed was a little higher being a toddler bed, so JR could easily be lying down there looking and hearing the man's shoes.

He says Haleigh did not wake up which could be very true. Misti has already placed JR as being awake when she went to bed, so he is possibly a light sleeper. Junior has provided the only clues in that at all besides the dogs, so I hope LE is at least considering his story.

Jr was in the bed with Misty and Haleigh was on a mattress from a toddler's bed on the floor. From what I understand, even the adult bed was just two mattresses on the floor, no frame.

 

[twilight829]

There are alot of good ideas about the credibility issue here. Belimom in post #39, I believe makes alot of sense. He was not upset in the video by any means, but what I am wondering is, if an upset mom was asking him questions, would he, at such a young age, feel the need to "find" an answer for her?

 

[debs]

There are alot of good ideas about the credibility issue here. Belimom in post #39, I believe makes alot of sense. He was not upset in the video by any means, but what I am wondering is, if an upset mom was asking him questions, would he, at such a young age, feel the need to "find" an answer for her?

It's possible. However, his complacent nodding was more like a child who was agreeing with his mom about something they talked about and not a child seeming to want to appease his mother's distress. He never offered to retell his story. Crystal asked questions, Jr nodded. He looked more interested in the potato chips.

 

[sunflowerchick]

lol I hear that! I know that my 3 yr old cousin has a great vocabulary & is pretty open bout things when she talks. BUT she also repeats everythinggggggg she hears LOL

LOL that's sooo funny because my 2 1/2 year old is exactly the same way. She has the vocabulary of a 4 or 5 year old when she wants to, but she also mimics everything, including the attitude of my teenagers.

Point is, my daughter is quite advanced for her age, but I really don't see her being able to come up with the things that Jr. is saying. I also know that children DO tell stories and they DO come up with things sometimes in an effort to tell adults what they think will please them or make them happy. Children want to please, they want to feel loved. This is something that we have discussed in my childhood development classes.

 

[kkmiami]

He is not 5.He only barely turned 4 a few weeks ago. That year is a huge difference when it comes to comprehension.

 

[maureenv]

IMO, RJ appeared 'coached' by his mother last night.

Question to anyone who has experience in child psychology: RJ did not appear to be distraught by his mother questioning him last night. Had this been a true event in his life, wouldn't he have become animated, recount what happened, and been somewhat upset?

I agree with you 100%.

Matter of fact it seems that bio-mom has this all figured out. Seems he may have over heard her talking to her Mom.
Typically when a drug gang wants to get back at somone, they kill right there and then....MAYBE kidnap an adult. Running a day care by kidnapping a child to teach a lesson, isn't typically their MO. They typically don't kidnap a child, in order to kill the child. Drug gangs want their messages heard immediately.

 

[txsvicki]

I can't imagine the little boy overhearing any talk of squeaky shoes and then repeating that. Squeaky shoes is not something a child would just dream up, but is something one might notice as he lay there on the floor witnessing someone take his sister. It's something that could actually have happened, but why he didn't wake up Misti is another thing. Supposedly, she was there, but I don't believe it was said whether Misti was in bed asleep or not.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I'll try (yes, that is my field...). I think it would depend on alot of things.

First of all, if he's been asked questions numerous times, then answering them has become almost a rote task rather than the first time or two of reliving it in his mind.

Second of all, he might not necessarily get upset if he didn't see anything bad happen to Haleigh (such as someone actually hurting her). Even if he did see a man take Haleigh out of the bed, his world is small and his imagination limited to his world experiences. For all he knew, this was just as family friend who was moving Haleigh to another room or something. Unless he was familiar with the idea of kidnapping, he would not have thought that this person was taking Haleigh away for good. Even now, after the fact that she really is missing for real, in his mind he can't comprehend that it's forever. He doesn't even grasp that concept yet. And things that go "missing" - toys, shoes, etc - always turn up somewhere, right? So the reality of the situation probably hasn't even hit him yet.

I just now read your response, belimom. Thank you. This makes sense to me!

 

[Busylady]

My heart breaks for this little boy. I just do not think a 4 yr old would use the terms squeaky shoes. I also do not think he would just go right back to sleep after seeing someone strange take Haleigh. I do not know if Misty was there the entire night or not, but if she was there when he went to bed, and then was there when TN and police showed up he probably would say she was there all night. Even if he woke up for a few minutes in the night and Misty was not in bed with him. I have wondered if it was a normal practice for her to sleep with Jr all night, or did she sometimes just lay down with him until he fell asleep then get up and go to her own bed maybe after Ron came home from work? If that was the case he would not of been alarmed if he woke up during the night and she wasnt in the bed with him.

 

[twilight829]

Well, this is why I don't post very much.....my fingers type faster than my brain works! You are right about how his behavior was with mom on the video, but what I should have explained better was that I wasn't talking about his behavior during the interview, but more on the lines of wondering how mom's initial reaction and questions to him in the beginning would affect his answers. Because I didn't believe her when this first came out and she said she didn't and wouldn't ask him questions. Ir sounded like to me, she's already been down the "coaching road" before and was well aware of what to say, to make his statement more credible. But bottom line, like alot of you guys, I would have to say that unless LE heard this in the beginning, it's not credible. Thanks for the reply debs, and from now on, I will try to keep my brain and my fingers at the same speed.

 

[Vegas Bride]

I would not bet on his story being factual, to many ways this young child could have been misled. He is going through a traumatic experience and his little mind is working overtime to try and make sense of it all. IMO he is weaving what he would picture as a bad man coming to steal his sissy. I would be interested in knowing what kind of movies etc this little boy has been watching lately, he very well could have transferred something from a movie, a dark villan of some sort, into who took her. He also could have picked up many different ideas from just hearing what the adults around him are saying, kids hear everything!!! After he said what he did he has gotten a lot of attention for it, so that would encourage him to keep it up and weave more.

VB

 

[Tichad3]

I don't know enough about Jr to decide one way or another. Is he "normal" for his age, advanced, or a slow learner? Does he tell tall tales often or not?

I do believe he was coached by bio mom for the Geraldo interview. She was obviously leading him.

Now my feelings and opinion:

I believe Crystal has coached him to say all that he has. I just don't know what her "agenda" is at this point. One minute she is blaming Ron and Misty, the next she is blaming "some black guy". It's way too suspicious for my liking.

 

[Anais]

Nope, just don't buy it. If it would have come out long before then maybe. He seemed rather coached and I am mortified that his mother chose to parade him in front of the Geraldo show!

 

[jnTexas]

I'm sad for RJ because his mom put him on tv, but it does clear something up. There was no masked man. His story is more of lead questions with yes and no answers. Therefore I stand with my first belief the family is invovled. I don't think it's the Mom. Still have my gut feeling of Dad and GF.

 

[scratchthatitch]

Maybe LE has not said anything about JR's story because they never intended for it to be public information at this point! TN stated that (and no, I don't think she lied), and Crystal went against thier advice.

I am still thinking that JR's account may hold a clue that is not yet known to anyone. For example, a young child may have a bodily reaction (get sick, lose bladder control) upon hearing the perp's voice, seeing their face and so on. We don't know if THE BLACK MAN theory is accurate, but we also don't know if JR DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING.

Like I said, MC in the Smart case was believed to hold no clues. She was the only witness and everyone was frustrated. She couldn't even give a description. It was nine months later, BM's voice clicked in her head as one she had heard before.
If this case is tied to anyone on either side of the family, maybe JR knows that person. He may not know them well enough to know their name, but he may be able to recognize them!

 

[Anais]

Thanks so much for the welcomes, I am so happy to be here with WS.

I have another comment re: JR - I think it was inappropriate for Craig Rivera to even have JR on camera while Crystal asked him about the person in black. Even though the camera was on JR's back, it was inappropriate IMO. Crystal makes no better use of her maternal judgement than Octomom!

Welcome to WS Travelgal!!!

You make a great point. I was utterly and completely disgusted by this quite bold exploitation of her child. In fact something has given me a sorta hinky feeling about her since day one just can't put my finger on it.

Welcome again!!

 

[Issi]

Gah... I want to believe the little boy... but man... I'm remembering back to when I was his age.


Ok.. sit down kids.. Uncle Issi is going to tell you a story. I hope you take something from it.

Alright... so I'm a 4 year old... fairly well behaved kid with average intelligence...

My mother used to babysit a boy that was a year or so older than me. Nice enough kid... we got along fine, and played well together... I think his name was Mike.

Somehow, he was bitten by a cat that belonged to our neighbor... they had freakin' tons of pets... I kid you not. They had probably 6 cats, and more than a few dogs

Well anyhoo... Mike's mom was naturally upset and concerned... She called the police about our neighbors.. and even they were understandable and compliant. (They were nice people.. they didn't do anything wrong. Crap happens sometimes)

Ok.. so the police put all these cats in front of me... Asking me to pick out and show them which one bit Mike

I knew it was the orange one... It was an orange tabby that was a little cantankerous.. Lol.. I do remember that...

To get to point.. I was totally thrown off by being questioned by the police... I was a small child, and I didn't even grasp why they were talking to me. For all I knew, they were there to ask me which animal I wanted to take home as a pet.

I hope RJ wasn't too jarred, and gave the answers LE needed.

 

[scratchthatitch]

OOOO, I gotta bump! Tonight, JVM and Ed Smart are right there with me! They said the same thing

Maybe LE has not said anything about JR's story because they never intended for it to be public information at this point! TN stated that (and no, I don't think she lied), and Crystal went against thier advice.

I am still thinking that JR's account may hold a clue that is not yet known to anyone. For example, a young child may have a bodily reaction (get sick, lose bladder control) upon hearing the perp's voice, seeing their face and so on. We don't know if THE BLACK MAN theory is accurate, but we also don't know if JR DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING.

Like I said, MC in the Smart case was believed to hold no clues. She was the only witness and everyone was frustrated. She couldn't even give a description. It was nine months later, BM's voice clicked in her head as one she had heard before.
If this case is tied to anyone on either side of the family, maybe JR knows that person. He may not know them well enough to know their name, but he may be able to recognize them!

If I recall, didn't the Smart family obscure their children's faces from the media after Elizabeth's kidnapping? Didn't they obscure Mary Katherine's face, and certain information she had, from the public? She was admittedly a few years older, but still a young child that did not appear to hold any real clue that would help identify the kidnapper. Regardless, her family protected her, JUST IN CASE.
MARY KATHERINE'S RECALL OF A SINGLE CHARACTERISTIC, ONCE PUT IN CONTEXT, SINGLE-HANDEDLY LED TO THE IDENTITY OF HER SISTER'S KIDNAPPER.
RJ's information might seem of little value now, but I believe the most damaging thing learned from that interview was, RJ WAS AWAKE AND WITNESSED THE KIDNAPPING. That is very unsettling to say the least. Who knows (and now the abductor has reason to consider) the potential clues that WITNESS may hold somewhere down the line (Mary Katherine's epiphany took 9 months). What value does his experience hold once placed in the proper context?

**Brian Mitchell did attempt (unsuccessfully) to go back and kidnap another relative of Elizabeth's

 

[Busylady]

SATSUMA, Fla. --- Annette Sykes says reports that her great-grandson saw a man dressed in black inside the house the night his sister disappeared are false. Sykes says Crystal Sheffield, Haleigh Cummings biological mother, went on the Nancy Grace show and said four-year-old Ronald Jr. told her a man in black took his sister.


Sykes says she was at the Cummings household within 15 minutes of the abduction. She says she also took Ronald Jr. to the Putnam County Sheriff’s Office where he was interviewed by detectives.

“I carried him for the child psychologist to interview him…he spent quite a lot of time with two or three different ones. They said his story changed. Each time you ask him something, you know, you ask it a different way and he’d change his story,” said Sykes.

http://www.cbs47.com/content/topsto...s-Inside-Home-Are/retraOmmEkGCL_R0FwZ4DA.cspx