Judge's Order re: OP's Mental Health Eval Thread #42

[CriLondon]

Hi

I have since edited as I think the narcissism is quite predominant.

I do feel he totally lacks empathy - I just think back to his opening statement at the start of the trial. It was introduced as a statement to Reeva's family but was actually a great long speech about how much Oscar had suffered.

The lack of empathy is a family trait in my view - think about the totally inappropriate things they have done and said since the shooting:

• their family is suffering just as much as Reeva's
• barely waiting a moment before challenging ALL of the bail conditions
• having a memorial service on the anniversary of the death
• setting up an OP web page to tell 'the truth' about the case

Yes , I personally agree , with what you've listed. Hopefully you'll agree that all of it is towards RS and family (despicable and horrible imo).
Don't sure we can complete declare , LACK OF , if that feeling of guilt/remorse is shown towards other people .
I still stand with , diminished sense of , and i add "highly diminished sense of"

JMO

 

[Estelle]

Just would like to make something clear , in case it got confused:

I agree (to a certain extent , would have LOVED to see him on the stand , then i could answer this much more clearly, for i'd have visual basis , not just words) that the lack of remorse/empathy is , mainly , towards RS amd family (shown at various times and obv open for debate). Or whoever is standing in the way right now and in one way or another has been affected by the charges/incidents put to him.

However , when i said i'm not sure about the lack of remorse , i base that on a video and subsequent pictures (either bbc or sky news) , first days of the trial , he turns around and realizes AP is crying and right then his face muscles slump , the head goes down and forward , shoulders down . That is guilt and remorse , for causing AP to be so broken.

I hope now you see what i mean by diminished sense of , as the way i see it , his remorse appears a bit "selective".

JMO

I see what you mean now. It's my understanding that sociopaths have limited empathy, often selective and toward their family or whoever they deem worthy.

 

[CriLondon]

I see what you mean now. It's my understanding that sociopaths have limited empathy, often selective and toward their family or whoever they deem worthy.

Exactly my point Estelle , i thank you

 

[Lyra500]

Yes , I personally agree , with what you've listed. Hopefully you'll agree that all of it is towards RS and family (despicable and horrible imo).
Don't sure we can complete declare , LACK OF , if that feeling of guilt/remorse is shown towards other people .
I still stand with , diminished sense of , and i add "highly diminished sense of"

JMO

Ah yes - I understand where you are coming from now.

I think as Estelle says I might regard that as 'normal' for those types - they sometimes care about their own close family members, but basically everyone else is dirt.

If he had shown empathy or remorse in a truly selfless way for anyone who is not close family or a close associate, I would certainly reconsider, but I do not think I have seen, read or heard of such behaviour by him.

MOO

I totally understand your view though.

 

[Peliman]

I was scared, so I shot my girlfriend/wife/son/daughter/neighbor even though he/she was screaming. Yep, that outta do it. I was scared Mi'lady.

 

[Lyra500]

I was scared, so I shot my girlfriend/wife/son/daughter/neighbor even though he/she was screaming. Yep, that outta do it. I was scared Mi'lady.

Totally OT, but I just want to say Peliman that your avatar is outstanding. Every time I see the totally p*ssed expression on that cat's face I want to laugh.

 

[CriLondon]

Ah yes - I understand where you are coming from now.

I think as Estelle says I might regard that as 'normal' for those types - they sometimes care about their own close family members, but basically everyone else is dirt.

If he had shown empathy or remorse in a truly selfless way for anyone who is not close family or a close associate, I would certainly reconsider, but I do not think I have seen, read or heard of such behaviour by him.

MOO

I totally understand your view though.

Thank you for that , i'm glad!

I'll try to visually help what i mean:



Again Lyra ,the only reason why i state i 'm not comfortable with saying LACK OF is because if that emotion can be felt , and i mean physically felt and there's a defining movement that goes with it, you can't define LACK OF.

But Estelle , just a couple of posts up here, has defined PERFECTLY , imo ,which category that would fit into. And I agree.

 

[Peliman]

Totally OT, but I just want to say Peliman that your avatar is outstanding. Every time I see the totally p*ssed expression on that cat's face I want to laugh.

I call this my dippity doo look.

 

[Viper]

If you want to kill 5-6 minutes, take this test but fill it in to the best of your ability with answers that OP would "honestly" give. My test results came back with a laundry list of disorders and repeated information about the Suicide Hotline toll free number! LOL!!! :scared:

My list included: PTSD, Social Phobia, GAD, Manic Episodes, borderline Bipolar Disorder, Major Depressive Disorder, Relational Difficulties, Panic Disorder, Substance Abuse, and OCD as defined by the DSM-IV.

http://psychologytoday.tests.psychtests.com/take_test.php?idRegTest=3040

 

[Lyra500]

If you want to kill 5-6 minutes, take this test but fill it in to the best of your ability with answers that OP would "honestly" give. My test results came back with a laundry list of disorders and repeated information about the Suicide Hotline toll free number! LOL!!! :scared:

My list included: PTSD, Social Phobia, GAD, Manic Episodes, borderline Bipolar Disorder, Major Depressive Disorder, Relational Difficulties, Panic Disorder, Substance Abuse, and OCD as defined by the DSM-IV.

http://psychologytoday.tests.psychtests.com/take_test.php?idRegTest=3040

Thanks, Viper. I will have a go in a bit.

There was a 'psychopath' online test doing the rounds a couple of months ago. It may have been on the BBC website. Anyway, I got an extremely low score - the higher the score the more psychopathic you are supposed to be.

Imagine my joy when one of my workmates piped up that he got nearly full marks. He confirmed that he never cries and that his girlfriend says he has a sliver of ice instead of a heart. Oooookaaaay. Not in the least bit unsettling.

 

[CriLondon]

I can't help but feel that some might have misunderstood some of my latest posts , or might have inferred (wrongly) that i was "siding" with OP when i reasoned he did show remorse/guilt at some stages.

I really hope not , but just in case it was so:

- I don't think that OP has ever shown true/genuine empathy/remorse towards RS and her family . I think some of his testimony whilst in cross-exam was damning , in fact. If this is all true then it is horrible and despicable ime.
- The only times i've seen OP showing guilt/remorse is towards his family. I was simply using this in discussing whether it's appropriate or not to define a LACK OF or ABSENCE OF.
Which, thankfully and kindly, Estelle has defined in which category , the selective feelings of remorse fall into and i agree.

Sorry all for OT and thank you.

 

[Greater Than]

Hi Estelle & Jake

It is interesting that the clinician who should presumably be in charge of OP's treatment for his anxiety and depression (since they signed the actual prescriptions!), is nowhere to be seen.

As you say, this does make one question whether they actually exist.

Another explanation is that (like some other experts) they appear to want nothing to do with this defence case.

Vorster is who diagnosed him with the anxiety disorder when she evaluated him for her expert testimony. I don't believe he's taking medication for it..the diagnosis was only a week before. She did say that he was also suffering from depression and was being treated for that. OP testified to a specific medication he was taking for it, but he only became depressed since the shooting so it really has no relevance.

 

[fox1lady]

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-afr...ash-greeff-s-murder-away-1.45068#.U4IjN_ldWgw

I'm sorry this story is off topic slightly but I was interested in it because there are some coincidences.

I was startled by this.... "Masango received a visit from Greeff's attorney to ensure that he was willing to give the same statement in court.

The lawyer also told Masango that he did not have to worry about money.

In August, shortly before their trial began, Masango was told that if cleared, Greeff would assist his child "with everything".

I should mention my interest in this was because the advocate for the defence was Barry Roux and Gerrie Nel for the state. Would it be at all possible that the defence are "bribing" people for the Pistorius case? I'd put money on it!!!


THE last time advocates Gerrie Nel and Barry Roux SC argued against each other in court, Nel won for the state.
This was in the sensational trial of Dr Casper Greeff, a dentist from Kempton Park, who was sent to jail for life by the Pretoria high court in February 2001.
Greeff had contracted Christopher Njeje to murder his wife Estelle in November 1999. Her throat was cut by a blunt knife near Cullinan.
Greeff and Njeje were found guilty of murder with direct intent and both had received life-long sentences.
In September 2010, Greeff became the first prisoner in South Africa to have earned a doctorate in biblical archaeology.

 

[fox1lady]

If OP has this GAD would his near addiction to caffeine have accelerated it in any way does anyone know. I have read a few times that he was constantly drinking coffee, or energy drinks and popping caffeine pills. Could this have exacerbated a condition that was already out of control (if he indeed does have this condition)?

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Thanks Tori and I agree that it is bizarre for Oscar not to admit to the lesser charges and it would have done his credibility well to do so, I think he is emotionally unwell, perhaps he he just a manipulative narcissist. Again I have never said that Oscar did not kill reeve knowing it was her in the bathroom I said the state has not proven it's case IMO. The judge may feel differently and I will bow to her knowledge, expertise and judgement.

Hi Carmelita - I've read your posts over several threads and note you are always consistent in your desire to see that the PT prove the States case. I would also add that there is always a balance in your posts, that wants to ensure Justice is correctly served, regardless of outcome.

Mostly, I accept your impartiality as despite my personal thoughts on OP, I would wish to see him get nothing but a fair trial. There are a couple of things I would like to get your opinion on though. Firstly, if you listen to OP's testimony, he actually proves his version is incorrect. Think of the bangs & the screams. He says the State witnesses are wrong. He wants the Judge to believe that the only screams heard were his, and the last bangs were him beating the door down, when he then stopped screaming. After breaking into the toilet, he has given testimony that he could see Reeva was not breathing and held her for an unknown time. His own DT, agree the 4th shot mostly likely was instantly fatal - Roux never challenged this.

Now go back to the versions of the screams & bangs.

The shots that killed Reeva were followed by him walking back to his bedroom, checking the bed & curtain area, going back to the toilet, trying the door, going back to the bedroom, opening the curtains, blinds & balcony door, screaming for help, putting on his Prosthesis, going back to the toilet, breaking into it with the bat, discovering a lifeless Reeva, stopping screaming, going back to his bedroom, calling Stander, calling Netcare for 66 seconds, picking Reeva up & carrying her down stairs

So according to his own testimony of the timeline, Reeva was dead before the last set of bangs from the bat which knocked the door panel down. He is not denying that the witnesses heard anything, but they were wrong on what they heard. If what they heard was OP's version playing out, he had killed Reeva way before his own timeline suggested. Either the neighbours versions are correct, & OP is lying, or OP's version is correct, but he is still lying.

 

[Lyra500]

Vorster is who diagnosed him with the anxiety disorder when she evaluated him for her expert testimony. I don't believe he's taking medication for it..the diagnosis was only a week before. She did say that he was also suffering from depression and was being treated for that. OP testified to a specific medication he was taking for it, but he only became depressed since the shooting so it really has no relevance.

I went on to make the post below - BIB in my post is the point you are making.

I had not thought it would be a psychiatrist either to be honest. Basically any clinician signing a prescription for drugs should be doing so because they have identified what they feel is a clinical need in the patient. I therefore wondered why they had not turned up in court to confirm the clinical need they were treating.

However, if they were treating symptoms which started following the shooting, then I can see why they were not called as this would have no bearing on OP's behaviour on the night of the crime.
If however, OP was receiving treatment for the alleged GAD before 13th Feb 2013, then I am surprised that the treating clinician has not turned up to confirm this and provide their view of the patient's state of mind etc.

I suppose this would back up the speculation that Dr V over stepped the mark with her testimony and this was never a planned part of the defence case.

I was not clear whether it had been suggested that OP was receiving treatment for GAD prior to the crime.

 

[Duchy]

We disagree about the discrepancies and contradictions but the good judge shall use her wisdom, her assessors, and her years of experience on the bench to sort it all out. I'm sure she will weigh the evidence that is what she is morally bound to do.

BBM

:facepalm:

 

[Mysteeri]

If OP has this GAD would his near addiction to caffeine have accelerated it in any way does anyone know. I have read a few times that he was constantly drinking coffee, or energy drinks and popping caffeine pills. Could this have exacerbated a condition that was already out of control (if he indeed does have this condition)?

I believe it could. There is also "caffeine-induced anxiety disorder" in DSM-IV.

"Caffeine and Anxiety
Most people know that caffeine can cause anxiety-like symptoms, including heart palpitations, rapid heartbeat, elevated blood pressure, jittery feelings and insomnia, when consumed in excess. According to Columbia University Health Services, caffeine can also exacerbate an existing anxiety disorder. While giving up caffeine altogether will not cure generalized anxiety disorder -- or any other anxiety disorder -- by itself, it can help improve symptoms."

http://www.livestrong.com/article/471156-the-link-between-gad-nicotine-caffeine/

 

[Jake18]

Vorster is who diagnosed him with the anxiety disorder when she evaluated him for her expert testimony. I don't believe he's taking medication for it..the diagnosis was only a week before. She did say that he was also suffering from depression and was being treated for that. OP testified to a specific medication he was taking for it, but he only became depressed since the shooting so it really has no relevance.

It just seems odd to me that the clinician treating OP for depression - whether it be family doctor or psychiatrist - missed all these anxiety symptoms in OP. Especially when anxiety and depression can be intermingled and/he she should have specially asked about both.

 

[Val1]

Thank you for that , i'm glad!

I'll try to visually help what i mean:

View attachment 43754

Again Lyra ,the only reason why i state i 'm not comfortable with saying LACK OF is because if that emotion can be felt , and i mean physically felt and there's a defining movement that goes with it, you can't define LACK OF.

But Estelle , just a couple of posts up here, has defined PERFECTLY , imo ,which category that would fit into. And I agree.

It's interesting you picked that photo, from what I observed it appears to have been more about an opportunity for them to exchange info(see note the bro is reading), a good photo op for the trio to "prove" that it's them against the world and as for OP's lack of empathy/remorse I see his displays towards his siblings/family as more about him than them. ie. because they're openly upset it reflects badly on him(don't forget alot of his obsession seems to be about "his" brand). Imo.