Judge's Order re: OP's Mental Health Eval Thread #42

[CriLondon]

BBM

Both.

A couple of times earlier than the time stamps you cite (and again afterwards IIRC), Oscar admits he remembers pulling the trigger. During this exchange, he never claims he accidently fired the gun. In fact just the opposite when Nel offers an "accidental discharge of the weapon" as one of OP's "versions", Oscar corrects him to clarify that he never claimed it was an accidental discharge.
.

Thank you , that was my reasoning too , just wanted to confirm , legally , whether Nel was just trying to clear OP's testimony from the day before "I never intended to shoot at Reeva , or anyone for that matter Mylady , it was an accident" or if in fact Nel also achieved a declaration of intent with that exchange .
The way i read it , to me , it looked both , like you said.
I was just wondering if , on a legal basis , Masipa will have to accept that as intent to shoot or if she can reject it.
I personally don't see how but again , like someone was rightly giggling about the other day : IANAL

 

[kittychi]

I'm curious... How many of us suspect or believe that OP was aware of the SA husband that truly did accidentally shoot and mortally wounded his wife as she came out of a small room in their home? That case was disposed of shortly before OP fired four bullets at Reeva as she was in a small room, closet. About a week before Reeva's murder; surely it was national news in SA at the time. It is in the back of my mind that he was aware that it happened, and that the man was forgiven by all, including the NPA. Hmm...

I've said many times that if OP had only fired the one bullet this case would be much different; well except for the argument that occurred before the murder, but... And if he did brazenly fire the first bullet intending to kill but Reeva was screaming bloody murder, then he would take the wrong next step and fire three more times to finish it and silence her.

I have often thought that too, Viper.

I also still wonder why he didn't just use all of the bullets...why stop at four? I think the answer is because Reeva stopped screaming after 4.

 

[BatGunKick]

You were missed ! :loveyou:

Awww! thanks! :angel:

 

[CriLondon]

OP -"yesterday it was put to me it was an accident, and today it is put to me it wasn't by accident, I don't understand my lady....I didn't intend to shoot."

OP is trying to be too clever by half. I feel like shouting, just answer the damn question! :tantrum: :blushing:



OMG! The slip ups OP was making are just monumental! He's practically given it away that he shot Reeva because she wouldn't come out and trying to blame her even in his 'version'. :facepalm: jmo

I sincerely think OP was so concentrated in his answers during that exchange that he never saw Nel coming and cornering him to the point of no escape other than "i'm confused" which is a non-answer that becomes an answer by defect.

 

[CriLondon]

I wonder what that is all about?

I wish Gerrie Nel had him on the ropes about that, either Reeva was alive or was not. This leads me to think she was alive for a few seconds once OP got to her and then he wasted time until she died, and that's why he's mixing things up, because he left her and came back and then she was definitely dead. :twocents:

JMO but...
The more one weighs in all these inconsistencies the more it feels like there were never cricket bat sounds after the last gun shot...he shot her , realized , broken the panel he had previously damaged with the bat , got to her as she died. And that's why his first version was that she was breathing.

Again , JRMO

 

[TorisMom003]

If he has to be monitored for 30 days (Mon-Fri) that's six weeks.

How come the trial resumes on 30th June, after five weeks?

Because the Judge believes that OP's act will be found out before the full 30 days are up? In looking at that photo of OP arriving this morning for his first day of observation I noticed that he is wearing a dress shirt and jacket. I guess he is still focused on his "image" since he knew that cameras would be there to photograph him. Heck, if it were me, I'd want to be as comfortable as possible.

MOO

 

[BritsKate]

I'm curious... How many of us suspect or believe that OP was aware of the SA husband that truly did accidentally shoot and mortally wounded his wife as she came out of a small room in their home? That case was disposed of shortly before OP fired four bullets at Reeva as she was in a small room, closet. About a week before Reeva's murder; surely it was national news in SA at the time. It is in the back of my mind that he was aware that it happened, and that the man was forgiven by all, including the NPA. Hmm...



I've said many times that if OP had only fired the one bullet this case would be much different; well except for the argument that occurred before the murder, but... And if he did brazenly fire the first bullet intending to kill but Reeva was screaming bloody murder, then he would take the wrong next step and fire three more times to finish it and silence her.

One of our posters had a signature for the longest time that read: 'There are no coincidences in murder'. I'm reminded of it everytime other posters bring up things that are amazing coincidences, all things considered, in a case.

Whether he knew of the other case or not though, legally his defence options were very limited. He doesn't meet the requirement for self-defence (in which his life had to be in imminent danger - not just perceived danger) and South Africa doesn't recognise mistaken identity as a valid defence. That leaves, tmk, involuntary or putative self-defence and involuntary carries the higher burden.

Normally, afaik, the accused testifying is sufficient to establish state of mind and convince the court of a putative self-defence. Rather telling to me that Roux felt compelled to bolster Oscar's testimony.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Very interesting approach! I have considered it and chatted to my mom who helped develop the bat gun kick theory... only thing is that the dropping to the knees would bring him closer into the bathroom, unless he knelt in the passage, and I think lasers tracked back put him at the very entrance to the bathroom (ie. minute he had sights on her) if you know what I mean?

BUT, consider this (interested in your thoughts).... what if the door was slightly open as he shot - Reeva having just got to the door and trying to close it as he came to the entrance and saw her, he fires urgently as she cannot be given time to call police.... as the door slightly ajar this is the difference in trajectory as the first shot forces door closed, and rest then into closed door - he would not have to have moved at all. ?

Unlocked door then gave OP ability to go in and see if she was breathing (he then checks her phone to see if she called police). Then he has time to get prosthesis on, break door, "locked" enters his version.

BGK - Interesting thoughts, however, I think the only way the door could have been slightly open would have been if Reeva was hit with the first bullet whilst in the act of closing the door, rather than the bullet forcing it closed.

As for the dropping to one knee bringing him closer to the toilet, that makes logical sense, although his full height difference with his Prosthesis, would not be too dissimilar from being with out them. There are other posters (Prime Suspect - I'm, sorry but I don't know how to quote your brilliant picture!) allude to OP being in a more rigid position if on one knee. Well, I have just dropped to the position and found I could move from right to left very easily.

I'm guessing that for the defence AND prosecution cases, OP being on his stumps for part of the incident has advantages and proving he was on his Prosthetics would have been a non starter for the PT. However, credibility leaves the DT when they ask the Judge to believe he was carrying his gun around on his stumps afterwards, which involved more movements & a greater time span.

 

[TorisMom003]

I spent yesterday reading up on Elliot Rodgers, the man that killed 6 people in California. While reading his 141 page manifesto I realized that there were some similarities between him and OP. Fortunately OP was able to achieve fame and fortune, if he had not I do believe that we would have been discussing OP doing the same type of thing as ER. Neither take blame of anything in their lives, both believe that deserve things to be given/handed to them. OP managed to achieve Er's goal of having the "hot blonde white" girlfriends.

MOO

 

[CriLondon]

No offense to anyone, just providing the requested reply. Why the _____ would OP drop to his knee to fire at a target 2m in front of him?! And was he sliding to the right on his knee with each consecutive gunshot? He had to have been if you consider the trajectory of the bullets that he fired. That is highly unlikely to my thinking.

About that picture Viper , could you please compare it to this one below and tell me why the rods for bullet-hole D are so different in direction?
Is one of these pics fake ? Or do you know if they were taken at different times?
Thank you !

 

[Cherwell]

If he has to be monitored for 30 days (Mon-Fri) that's six weeks.

How come the trial resumes on 30th June, after five weeks?

Maybe they are doing Saturdays as well.

 

[BatGunKick]

I wonder what that is all about?

I wish Gerrie Nel had him on the ropes about that, either Reeva was alive or was not. This leads me to think she was alive for a few seconds once OP got to her and then he wasted time until she died, and that's why he's mixing things up, because he left her and came back and then she was definitely dead. :twocents:

Absolutely. I think the door was not locked the second time she went in - she didn't have time to lock. This means all OP did was immediately after shooting, open the door to check if she was alive, then grabbed her phone next to her and tried to check if she managed to call police. He then had time to put on legs, break door to cover damage, and by then she had passed.

 

[Viper]

About that picture Viper , could you please compare it to this one below and tell me why the rods for bullet-hole D are so different in direction?
Is one of these pics fake ? Or do you know if they were taken at different times?
Thank you !

View attachment 43799

I'm not sure what you are asking, but that is a genuine photo. Here it is with enhancement of where the bullet trajectories lead, and this is also a genuine prosecution team photo.

When looking at the outside of the door, the image in my previous two posts, bullet hole A was on thing, bullet hole B was very different, but bullet holes C and D are another different thing and they are tightly grouped together; OP had a clear indication of where Reeva was with the last two shots, where her head / voice was, as he kept moving to his right while firing the four shots.

But when you see where the bullets were aimed at, the image I am attaching now, OP fired a very tight grouping of shots at his target behind the door. It is important to differentiate that Reeva was his target, not the door which stood in between OP and Reeva.

 

[james83]

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 3 hrs
@Keke_Makhetha quite right. Hospital management have discretion on when the accused may leave - he could also be kept later.

 

[BatGunKick]

OP bought 2 white tigers on an impulse, as you do. :waitasec: They're safe in Canada now, phew. :scared:

Again, who keeps tigers?!! No real grasp of reality and another "macho" vibe. :naughty: Been wondering if he would be a flight risk to Mozambique - but maybe Canada now? :websleuther:

 

[BritsKate]

I spent yesterday reading up on Elliot Rodgers, the man that killed 6 people in California. While reading his 141 page manifesto I realized that there were some similarities between him and OP. Fortunately OP was able to achieve fame and fortune, if he had not I do believe that we would have been discussing OP doing the same type of thing as ER. Neither take blame of anything in their lives, both believe that deserve things to be given/handed to them. OP managed to achieve Er's goal of having the "hot blonde white" girlfriends.



MOO

Scott Peterson. Christopher Coleman. Darlie Routier. Narcissists and antisocials are over-represented in the prison population so I think people will find many similarities criminal to criminal.

For those new to true crime: Scott Peterson is on CA's death row for murdering his wife, Laci, and their unborn son, Conner. Chris Coleman was convicted in IL for fatally strangling his wife, Sherri, and sons Gavin and Garrett. Darlie Routier sits on TX death row after brutally stabbing her sons, Damon and Devon, to death.

All three killed innocents purely for selfish motives and concocted elaborate alibis. All three still deny any role in the murders for which they were convicted. All three exhibit, imo, a high degree of traits associated with NPD.

JMO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[soozieqtips]

I spent yesterday reading up on Elliot Rodgers, the man that killed 6 people in California. While reading his 141 page manifesto I realized that there were some similarities between him and OP. Fortunately OP was able to achieve fame and fortune, if he had not I do believe that we would have been discussing OP doing the same type of thing as ER. Neither take blame of anything in their lives, both believe that deserve things to be given/handed to them. OP managed to achieve Er's goal of having the "hot blonde white" girlfriends.

MOO

I watched the video clip courtesy of Viper and this Elliot guy really did seem to think he was owed a lot of things. He was obsessed with himself and his own needs and had a rather inflated sense of self, claiming he was superior to other males etc, but he didn't think for a moment that his own personality was what stopped girls being attracted to him. He thought he was perfect, not unlike OP.

 

[CriLondon]

I'm not sure what you are asking, but that is a genuine photo. Here it is with enhancement of where the bullet trajectories lead, and this is also a genuine prosecution team photo.

When looking at the outside of the door, the image in my previous two posts, bullet hole A was on thing, bullet hole B was very different, but bullet holes C and D are another different thing and they are tightly grouped together; OP had a clear indication of where Reeva was with the last two shots, where her head / voice was, as he kept moving to his right while firing the four shots.

But when you see where the bullets were aimed at, the image I am attaching now, OP fired a very tight grouping of shots at his target behind the door. It is important to differentiate that Reeva was his target, not the door which stood in between OP and Reeva.

I was asking you to compare these two here , and what you think of the rods in bullet hole D , do you think the trajectories are the same ?

 

[soozieqtips]

Maybe they are doing Saturdays as well.

It's just weekdays as far as I know.

Maybe he's already negotiated a week off :giggle:

 

[soozieqtips]

And just to show how some people will defend a killer, no matter what.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/26/facebook-removes-page-glorifying-isla-vista-killer