KatieCoolady Holds 'Court' - The Dedicated KCL Thread

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04-18-2013, 05:30 PM
trial day 50: REBUTTAL;
Posted By LadyEdith

Whoever JW has waiting at home better get the vodka out. it's blackout time.

Carried over from another thread, obviously. This was post with which Lady E. won my
heart forever. Pithy, razor sharp and communicated with perfect brievity. Reminds me of Dorothy Parker, and, if I'm not mistaken, she may be paying hommage to Edith Head with the name she choose to post under. She encompasses many of the things I treasure (pithiness, brevity, a possible shout out to Edith Head and can write the perfect sentence "It's blackout time."

:drumroll:
 
Juries are all very different. Each one takes on a unique dynamic. It is really very interesting to experience. I've personally sat on 3 juries (once a high profile local case where we were sequestered for 2+ weeks) and also, in my career as a paralegal, I have spoken to jurors many, many times. It is one of my favorite things to do. lol Per all jury instructions, the very first thing they do is elect a foreperson. Sometimes they go in and everyone is kinda respectful and there will be one person who has stood out as a leader...another vocal juror will nominate that person. More often than not, that person is promptly elected foreperson.

Other times, you will have a juror who is just aching to be the foreperson, whether they are the best candidate or not. What often happens in that case, is the other jurors hoping to start things off on the right foot as a united group in good faith, will just say, "okay, if you want it, you can have it". I have yet to see this guy's interview so I am only guessing by what I have read (including the transcripts) but my bet is he was one of these types.
BBM

I've been seated as a juror four times and IMO, you are ABSOLUTELY correct with your hunch; that was my very first thought. I've BTDT, experienced it myself twice.

The dynamics of the final group of jurors can be quite different than the group as a whole before the alternates are selected (or before any jurors have been excused/dismissed). And this can be especially true if the 'natural leader' (someone who just stands out for a reason and not necessarily due to their campaigning for it) of a group (before deliberations) ends up not being part of the deliberating jury panel.

Group dynamics really can change, a lot, in certain situations as the members leave.


Can't get anywhere with "what ifs", though.
 
http://www.eveningsun.com/nationworldnews/ci_23314542/jury-arias-case-gives-up-after-no-consensus

Snippet from article:

"You heard (prosecutor Juan) Martinez say she was only 27. ... She's old enough that she should have known better," Zervakos said. "I didn't look at it that way. I'm looking at 27 years of an absolutely normal everyday young woman that was living a life that was perfectly normal. Then something changed the trajectory of her life after meeting Travis Alexander, and it spiraled downhill from there."

That quote was very similar to Darrel Brewer's quote to azcentral (Keifer):

It went something like, "Jodi was perfectly normal young woman until she met Travis Alexander and the PPL and the Mormon religion".

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/articles/20130520jodi-arias-darryl-brewer-interview.html

And then, I wondered how Keifer had access to what the juror question was yesterday (see page 42 or 43 of legal questions plus my original question on "how is Keifer privvy to juror questions"). Keifer removed this juror question from his article at 12:55 am yesterday. Another sleuther claimed that Keifer was bragging about seeing the juror note but when I checked his twitter account, that statement was also removed.

What the hay?

Thanks for the links

BBM ~ I can't believe he saw her as a normal woman, living a normal life. :( This is making me sick, the more he speaks.

To morally not be able to actually sentence her to death I guess is understandable, but the fact that he thinks she's normal and believable? What a nightmare this is. He's been manipulated by a sociopath.
 
I must have missed any posts about that...I certainly hope I didn't inadvertently post something along those lines? I really don't want to hear more from the jurors as I don't want to know who those 4 were. I watched them so closely all those months and I just don't want to have bad feelings toward any of them. :(

I am however very interested in hearing from the alternates/ dismissed jurors.

KCL, can you give us some insight into juror 18, your thoughts on him during the trial? DId u ever have any doubts about him? I have read that he didn't take hardly any notes, and was just focused.
 
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/05/jodi-arias-jury-foreman-interview-video/

Did you see this interview where he states that he is going on these shows b/c he is now aware of the public hatred towards CMJA, and he wants people to realize our justice system is based on innocent until proven guilty, and that CMJA is a human being.

First of all, does the Foreman not realize that she HAS BEEN PROVEN GUILTY? Was he zoned out during that little part of the trial?? She is now been proven guilty, he can speak his mind about her and what he thinks of what she did. But no, he chooses to in a way defend her, even after he was one of the ones who convicted her! WTF??

That CMJA is a human being....Travis was a human being too. She took his life and to this day feels no remorse for it, and has never stated that she would not do the actual killing again.
Red BBM

This right here is a testament to just how skillful this sociopathic murderess IS. She has managed to even manipulate the foreman of the jury that convicted her of M1.

People who have never dealt with these types have NO idea what they're dealing with.
 
I deleted it for you. :)

Yes, digging around to see what the man might do for a living is sleuthing.

How hard would it be to be a used carpet salesman? ,,sorry that just poped into my head and i had to laugh
 
It's all the same party line sold by the defense. In REALITY her own parents told a very different tale at the time of her arrest--a time when parents might be inclined to whitewash their child simply out of abject FEAR of their consequences.

Just one of those things the jurors were not allowed to know about...
 
I think this jury foreman lacks wisdom.
 
I want to share something along the lines what our thread Prethident Lady Edith posted earlier about sometimes things not being as they seem...and a better plan unfolding that you may not know about or see at the time.

Please forgive if I'm repeating myself but this bears repeating now I think.

When the verdict came in I was with my brother who broke in to tears, put his hand over his tearful eyes and said "I feel just like I did when they let Rudi off Death Row". They argued for 7 years to get the man who slit my sister's throat AND his brother who masterminded the plot for money off DR on a mental retardation claim. It was completely insane if you knew the facts of the case. But as soon as the Supreme Court issued a ruling that the mentally retarded cannot be executed many DR inmates become mentally retarded overnight including Cindy's killers. It was kind of a "test case" in AZ with one trier of fact , a Judge who ruled EVERYTHING for the defense and nothing in our favor. I could go on and on about the abuses levied at my family during those years --far worse than anything we ever experienced during the criminal process (which was very very mild) up to the moment of the resentencing of the one let off death row where his attorney turned and addressed me in open court offering me and my family an apology.

Right before I stepped up to kick his *advertiser censored** with a Victim Impact Statement.

Anyway, it was horrible, just horrible and exhausting and devastating. To watch my then 78 yr old father in court every day, testifying, reliving 18 years later and the ways we were disrespected and flat out abused, just horrible. And then, one of them was granted the reprieve. Horrifying. Luckily he was given consecutive life WITH parole sentences so he will be a. never let out of prison and b. forgotten.

This case brought up all that again for my dear brother.

But after hugging and crying, I sat him down and reminded him of the reality of that situation. It was a very healing conversation for us to have as Alfonse really fell apart during those trials and we just never really talked about all that..now was the time.

Those brothers were on the same situation JA will likely get--23 hrs per day in max security BUT their cells were above each other so they could communicate all day in their native tongue thru the vents. What a luxury for that kind of deprivation. Imagine if JA was in a cell all day with someone she actually cared about (cough) in a cell next to her she could talk to all day vs well nobody. it was huge..and a huge LOSS. So we lost our sister, they ultimate lost each other when one was let off DR and moved to an entirely different part of the State. The only way they will ever lay eyes on each other again is if the one invites the other to his execution. Careful what you ask for. Poetic justice.

It's funny because in a convoluted slam at me, Kiefer mentioned that appeal and how I've "never been the same since" while at the same time blaming ME for "changing in to a completely different person" (he did not mean this as a compliment). Odd as he's not even seen me since that time at all. It was clear he was making a statement about how the DP "ruins" victim's families but at the same time it's our own fault because we agreed to the DP in the first place. He was really using it as an example to bolster all the slams at the Alexanders he was making as if all the horrible things they were hearing about Travis was their own fault for not taking the plea. This is how convoluted these things get. Pure "blame the victim" plain and simple.

But I digress...because the moral of this long tale is that even though the result of that arduous appeal was devastating to us, in the long run it ended up MUCH BETTER. He got separated from his brother meaning a deeper punishment for them BOTH and at the same time, people stopped appealing for him and he ended up. ..............forgotten and locked away for life where we don't have to hear about him again.

See what I mean? There could be something going on here that has a silver lining we just can't see right now. And that's where I really want to do my best to stay open to.

This IS a good vs evil story at play here and I believe with all my heart the GOOD will prevail.

In the meantime, I want to keep supporting the family as really that's the only thing that truly makes sense to me and I can have some control over.

Ok...long winded post...thanks for indulging me and hope it rings somewhere in some of you too.

xoxo
 
Well, I just stopped by to give KCL some love... It's been one heck of a journey for her and the Alexanders. The only price I had to pay, aside from the honor of supporting Team Travs, is the 10 pounds I gained during the trial. I think JA deserves the DP for that weight gain. It should be an aggravating factor ...for sure.

Now I need to take my twisted sense of humor and find the foreman's statements. I need something to put me to sleep. At night, I can't shake the image of Samantha weeping....nor Steven's words.
 
KCL, are we not supposed to use the Paypal/gmail address for donations any more? I will donate to Travis' foundation at a later date, but right now I would like to continue donating to the family for their upcoming travel expenses.

Thanks!

I texted Samantha again today to get just that clarification as many people are initiating fund raisers and first she sent the paypal address (which is still good) but a few min later wrote again saying she thinks everything should just go through that site at this point. I did specifically state that people are wanting to start gathering funds to support them through the next phase. I've always gone with her direction on this and I do ask her to write it for me (once in my journal, now in this text) so I know I"m getting it exactly how she wants it. So that's what I got. I do know she's been managing the funds and I trust her so that's what I'm sharing.

Thankyou! :)
 
I have an idea here in west Texas to raise funds for the Alexander's and I am working on it. I am a little nervous because I am a good speaker but not so much on the fund raising end, maybe you could throw me some advice if needed. I love what you do for the Alexander's :blowkiss: and I feel so upset about the leader of this jury that I am speechless on that.

Youre a good person.
youre a good speaker, with passion I assume
Can someone here help with fund raising criteria to help guide TX Professional.in that arena ?
 
Well, I just stopped by to give KCL some love... It's been one heck of a journey for her and the Allexanders. The only price I had to pay, aside from the honor of supporting Team Travs, is the 10 ponds I gained during the trial. I think JA desreves the DP for that weight gain. It should be an aggravating factor ...for sure.

Now I need to take my twisted sense of humor and find the foreman's statements. I need something to put me to sleep. At night, I can't shake the image of Samantha weeping....nor Steven's words.

LOL I love you KarmicLaw. My friend Joi and I have a plan to drop our JodiArias weight gain this summer...maybe we need a support group thread for this..I'm sure we're not the only ones. :floorlaugh: You crack me up!!!
 
I want to share something along the lines what our thread Prethident Lady Edith posted earlier about sometimes things not being as they seem...and a better plan unfolding that you may not know about or see at the time.

Please forgive if I'm repeating myself but this bears repeating now I think.

When the verdict came in I was with my brother who broke in to tears, put his hand over his tearful eyes and said "I feel just like I did when they let Rudi off Death Row". They argued for 7 years to get the man who slit my sister's throat AND his brother who masterminded the plot for money off DR on a mental retardation claim. It was completely insane if you knew the facts of the case. But as soon as the Supreme Court issued a ruling that the mentally retarded cannot be executed many DR inmates become mentally retarded overnight including Cindy's killers. It was kind of a "test case" in AZ with one trier of fact , a Judge who ruled EVERYTHING for the defense and nothing in our favor. I could go on and on about the abuses levied at my family during those years --far worse than anything we ever experienced during the criminal process (which was very very mild) up to the moment of the resentencing of the one let off death row where his attorney turned and addressed me in open court offering me and my family an apology.

Right before I stepped up to kick his *advertiser censored** with a Victim Impact Statement.

Anyway, it was horrible, just horrible and exhausting and devastating. To watch my then 78 yr old father in court every day, testifying, reliving 18 years later and the ways we were disrespected and flat out abused, just horrible. And then, one of them was granted the reprieve. Horrifying. Luckily he was given consecutive life WITH parole sentences so he will be a. never let out of prison and b. forgotten.

This case brought up all that again for my dear brother.

But after hugging and crying, I sat him down and reminded him of the reality of that situation. It was a very healing conversation for us to have as Alfonse really fell apart during those trials and we just never really talked about all that..now was the time.

Those brothers were on the same situation JA will likely get--23 hrs per day in max security BUT their cells were above each other so they could communicate all day in their native tongue. What a luxury for that kind of deprivation. Imagine if JA was in a cell all day with someone she actually cared about (cough) in a cell next to her she could talk to all day vs well nobody. it was huge..and a huge LOSS. So we lost our sister, they ultimate lost each other. Careful what you ask for. Poetic justice.

It's funny because in a convoluted slam at me, Kiefer mentioned that appeal and how I've "never been the same since" while at the same time blaming ME for "changing in to a completely different person" (he did not mean this as a compliment). Odd as he's not even seen me since that time at all. It was clear he was making a statement about how the DP "ruins" victim's families but at the same time it's our own fault because we agreed to the DP in the first place. He was really using it as an example to bolster all the slams at the Alexanders he was making as if all the horrible things they were hearing about Travis was their own fault for not taking the plea. This is how convoluted these things get. Pure "blame the victim" plain and simple.

But I digress...because the moral of this long tale is that even though the result of that arduous appeal was devastating to us, in the long run it ended up MUCH BETTER. He got separated from his brother meaning a deeper punishment for them BOTH and at the same time, people stopped appealing for him and he ended up. ..............forgotten and locked away for life where we don't have to hear about him again.

See what I mean? There could be something going on here that has a silver lining we just can't see right now. And that's where I really want to do my best to stay open to.

This IS a good vs evil story at play here and I believe with all my heart the GOOD will prevail.

In the meantime, I want to keep supporting the family as really that's the only thing that truly makes sense to me and I can have some control over.

Ok...long winded post...thanks for indulging me and hope it rings somewhere in some of you too.

xoxo

I totally would have respectfully snipped this, if I could have figured out how to do it on my iPad.

I get tight in the chest just imagining what your family has gone through. You really are the angel that the Alexanders have needed. I do believe that there is a reason this is happening the way that it is. As hard as that is to digest, it gives me comfort. I release the outcome to the Universe and try not to worry about the path that outcome may take. It sounds easier than it is, as you well know.

We all need a massage, a time out, some more vino....and some victory dust....for it will be. I know it will. Nasmate.
 
Can someone please tell me how to alert a post, please?

In the right upper corner you will see a little triangle with red around it and an exclamation point I think? You click on it then it tells you how to alert (now I hope I'm not in trouble :blushing: ).
 
I want to share something along the lines what our thread Prethident Lady Edith posted earlier about sometimes things not being as they seem...and a better plan unfolding that you may not know about or see at the time.

Please forgive if I'm repeating myself but this bears repeating now I think.

When the verdict came in I was with my brother who broke in to tears, put his hand over his tearful eyes and said "I feel just like I did when they let Rudi off Death Row". They argued for 7 years to get the man who slit my sister's throat AND his brother who masterminded the plot for money off DR on a mental retardation claim. It was completely insane if you knew the facts of the case. But as soon as the Supreme Court issued a ruling that the mentally retarded cannot be executed many DR inmates become mentally retarded overnight including Cindy's killers. It was kind of a "test case" in AZ with one trier of fact , a Judge who ruled EVERYTHING for the defense and nothing in our favor. I could go on and on about the abuses levied at my family during those years --far worse than anything we ever experienced during the criminal process (which was very very mild) up to the moment of the resentencing of the one let off death row where his attorney turned and addressed me in open court offering me and my family an apology.

Right before I stepped up to kick his *advertiser censored** with a Victim Impact Statement.

Anyway, it was horrible, just horrible and exhausting and devastating. To watch my then 78 yr old father in court every day, testifying, reliving 18 years later and the ways we were disrespected and flat out abused, just horrible. And then, one of them was granted the reprieve. Horrifying. Luckily he was given consecutive life WITH parole sentences so he will be a. never let out of prison and b. forgotten.

This case brought up all that again for my dear brother.

But after hugging and crying, I sat him down and reminded him of the reality of that situation. It was a very healing conversation for us to have as Alfonse really fell apart during those trials and we just never really talked about all that..now was the time.

Those brothers were on the same situation JA will likely get--23 hrs per day in max security BUT their cells were above each other so they could communicate all day in their native tongue thru the vents. What a luxury for that kind of deprivation. Imagine if JA was in a cell all day with someone she actually cared about (cough) in a cell next to her she could talk to all day vs well nobody. it was huge..and a huge LOSS. So we lost our sister, they ultimate lost each other when one was let off DR and moved to an entirely different part of the State. The only way they will ever lay eyes on each other again is if the one invites the other to his execution. Careful what you ask for. Poetic justice.

It's funny because in a convoluted slam at me, Kiefer mentioned that appeal and how I've "never been the same since" while at the same time blaming ME for "changing in to a completely different person" (he did not mean this as a compliment). Odd as he's not even seen me since that time at all. It was clear he was making a statement about how the DP "ruins" victim's families but at the same time it's our own fault because we agreed to the DP in the first place. He was really using it as an example to bolster all the slams at the Alexanders he was making as if all the horrible things they were hearing about Travis was their own fault for not taking the plea. This is how convoluted these things get. Pure "blame the victim" plain and simple.

But I digress...because the moral of this long tale is that even though the result of that arduous appeal was devastating to us, in the long run it ended up MUCH BETTER. He got separated from his brother meaning a deeper punishment for them BOTH and at the same time, people stopped appealing for him and he ended up. ..............forgotten and locked away for life where we don't have to hear about him again.

See what I mean? There could be something going on here that has a silver lining we just can't see right now. And that's where I really want to do my best to stay open to.

This IS a good vs evil story at play here and I believe with all my heart the GOOD will prevail.


In the meantime, I want to keep supporting the family as really that's the only thing that truly makes sense to me and I can have some control over.

Ok...long winded post...thanks for indulging me and hope it rings somewhere in some of you too.

xoxo

BBM - Yes, I see and I understand. May God Bless The Alexander Family
 
In the right upper corner you will see a little triangle with red around it and an exclamation point I think? You click on it then it tells you how to alert (now I hope I'm not in trouble :blushing: ).

I doubt that very much.
 
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