KC's last night with RM - Where did she bring Caylee? *REVISIT*

[Brini]

Is there a thread on Josh O???

Melina said in her interview that KC claimed "Josh" was the father after she broke up with Jesse -- curious to read more about that.

I think "Josh" was supposed to have been the one-nighter from Universal.

 

[Brini]

How long was Caylee out of the bedroom? If the guy was asleep, he has no idea, right? It is not clear to me if he is saying that she was not in his house/ apartment at all in the AM, or if he awoke during the night and she was gone for a time.

If she was not seen during the night for a time vs. gone in the AM,Caylee could walk, and from what I've seen, could probably get out of a bed by herself.
Casey probably let her go whereever she was wandering in the strange apartment, kind of like one of us would let our dogs walk around in the dark unattended. Of Casey might have taken her to the family room for a snack and TV to keep her quiet. I don't know what R. meant from what has been posted here and I can't dig through all of the interviews to try to find this statement. I've never read it before.

If she wasn't there in the AM, surely Casey had some explanation. I just don't understand this.

No, Caylee was gone from the apartment.

 

[Brini]

LE asked RM about this a few times and he was adamant that she was gone and KC even had an explanation for it. According to her CA told her to bring Caylee home. But, when CA was later interviewed she said this never happened.. that she would never pull Caylee out of bed in the middle of the night. This is so disturbing to me.. Out of all the info that has come out, I cannot seem to make sense of where Caylee went that night. Unless RM is wrong...

Or, unless CA was wrong.

Why are we assuming that CA didn't either lie or forget?

And, what does this have to do with the crime?

 

[Brini]

THAT has always puzzled me? She claimed that her mother called and wanted Caylee at home. Cindy denies it ever happened. Maybe Cindy had a blackout or Casey took Caylee somewhere else to be with someone else.. but who. Very strange. I wonder if anyone ever really investigated RM.

LE prolly would not think that it's material to the crime.

 

[Brini]

I think it's really unlikely that Cindy or RM was lying..do you think Casey would get her lazy *advertiser censored** up in the middle of the night to take Caylee home just b/c Cindy wanted her to?! Let me remind you Cindy wanted Casey to let her talk to or see Caylee for A MONTH before she finally realized Caylee was missing. Cindy walked on eggshells with Casey, she would believe anything Casey said to avoid pissing her off. There is no way she would randomly demand that Caylee be home in the middle of the night and Casey complying. Actually, the chance of anyone calling Casey and having a conversation with her and then both her and Caylee leaving THEN Casey coming back alone (alll without RM hearing) seem pretty far fetched to me. Unless Casey is a stealth ninja, I think Caylee was the only one that left the bed that night. I think Casey sent Caylee off with her d..I mean RM's roommate that happens to look identical to Caylee. Of course his interviews are still mysteriously missing so we don't know what he has to say about that. I don't want to get on that topic again but jmo here.

Except that KC wasn't denying CA access to Caylee until AFTER the murder.

Yeah, I think that early on, KC might have got up in the middle of the night to take Caylee to CA. It would benefit KC to have alone time w/ RM.

 

[Brini]

Didn't CA also say in one of her interviews that KC NEVER slept at any boys house with Caylee? That KC would never do that. I remember something along those lines (please correct me if I am mistaken, I will try to find the interview), which is what made me think that whole thing about Caylee being gone sometime during the night seemed real suspicious. I don't think RM was mistaken about Caylee being there when he fell asleep and being gone when he woke. And I also believed that CA really didn't think KC slept out anywhere other than the babysitters with Caylee. Which makes KC the one with the pants on fire.

JMO.

How do we know CA didn't think that Caylee slept at KC's friends houses? Because she said so, later?

The problem with this is that BOTH lie all the time.

 

[Brini]

This whole thing just doesn't add up. Single mom with little child go to sleep at boyfriend's house. SM wakes up and takes little child "home" to grandparents, where she also resides. Instead of just climbing into her own little bed, SM gets back into her car and drives back across town (however close or far that may be) and climbs back into bed with boyfriend. When BF next wakes up, little child is gone and SM says her mother called and wanted the baby home...

Once you're woken up enough to drive hither and thither, wouldn't you think she'd just stay home?

There's so much that just doesn't make sense...

Not if she wanted to spend time alone with RM.

 

[Brini]

I think at this point Cindy was starting to going into "image" mode. Cindy has said to that Casey did not have Caylee over at BF's houses.

Cindy knew durn good and well that Casey had Caylee over there and called her to come home. Casey probably snuck Caylee home and showed back up at RM's.

The title of this thread.. says "the last night at RM's" however the first comment has to do with a stay there in April.

First, pin down the day this occured, then if it was in June, look at the cell records for that day.

This explanation seems the most likely, to me.

 

[Brini]

On Casey's and Caylee's last night with Ricardo (June 9) Amy H. was there also. Amy saw Caylee both during the evening of June 9 before AND the next morning (June 10). Amy says this was the last time she saw Caylee.

http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/ah092308.pdf (Page 12)

Casey's phone pinged from near RM's apartment from 5:07 p.m. June 9 into the next day. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-6-9&c=4 (phone pings listed her for June 9)

IIRC, the incident where Casey took Caylee home from RM's happened on one of Casey and Caylee's previous overnight "visits". I have NO doubt that RM told the truth. Casey's phone pings for June 13 show the Anthony house called Casey at 3 a.m. while she was overnight with Tony. Right after that phone call Casey went home.

I don't believe that Cindy never called Casey to make her come home.

I think that Cindy doesn't want to admit it ever happened because it is one of the reasons Cindy and Casey fought on June 15. Cindy doesn't want to talk about the fight on June 15 because Cindy knows it was Casey's motive. I believe Shirley was absolutely right when she speculated that Casey hated her mother more than she loved Caylee.

JMO

Then, it looks like KC was telling the truth. For once.

 

[Brini]

I think if CA would have called KC and insisted she bring Caylee home, she would have expected/demanded that KC stay with her at home, not go back out where ever KC said she was. I'm just guessing but CA doesn't strike me as the type to let KC slack on her responsibilities to Caylee. This is probably a big source of any contention between CA and KC. JMO

KC hasn't shown herself likely to stay home, at CA's demand, if she wanted to be with the guy du jour.

 

[Brini]

Ok, I am going over Ric's interview with a fine tooth comb and matching the cell records.

Ricardo and Casey met in June of 2007. Started dating Jan 2008 (pics of Oveido house BBQ) 1 time between Jan and May Casey took Caylee home in the middle of the night. Casey says she took Caylee home to bed. Cell phone records have not been released prior to May. Based on early June records, I do not doubt she went home and dropped Caylee off and went back or went home and stayed home on numerous occasions. If she dropped Caylee off and went back to Ric's, I am sure Cindy was told a huge lie and she feel for it at the time.

Ric's interview
May 29th Casey and Caylee stays overnight at Ricardo’s,
May 30th Casey and Caylee stay at Ricardo’s 1:50 AM Texts Amy H still appeared to be planning on going to PR.. texting about getting tickets to PR.
May 31st Casey and Caylee did not stay at Ricardo’s Ping records have her at Tony Lazzaro’s
June 1 Amy, Ricardo, Troy and JPC at Voyage (Rock Star Karaoke) Ping records shows her at Tony’s
June 6 Friday – Casey says she is coming… doesn’t show.. says she is working late. Ping records have her at Tony’s at 4:37 pm and then at Fusion later that night with Tony. Ping records have her back at her parents 5:04 AM SAT the 7th Ric finds out she was at Fusion instead by seeing photos on MYSPACE. Ric asks her about being there instead of being at his house and she lied to him saying “ her boss sent her there to look for his daughter. “ It sounds like he did not see the photos of Fusion until a few days later
June 7th Pings at parents home at 5:04 AM after staying overnight with Tony. Pings at Tony’s at 3:04 pm. Per Ricardo Casey goes to Ric and Amy’s at 11 pm on Saturday night.. Casey and Caylee both come over… and stay till late AM on June 8th. However, ping records show her at Ric and Amy as 8:45 pm.
June 8th Sunday Ric says: Left late morning. Says she went home because he talked to her later that day. She came back later but did not spend the night.
June 9th - Monday The police detective misspoke in the interview… calling the 9th the 8th….. Ricardo got out of work at 8 pm so Casey and Caylee came by sometime after that. However, he states later in the in the interview. That this was the last time he had sex with her.
June 10th – Tuesday – He came downstairs before leaving for work and they were on the couch. This does not mean that Casey and Caylee slept on the couch.
Ricardo and Casey met in June of 2007. Started dating Jan 2008 (pics of Oveido house BBQ) 1 time between Jan and May Casey took Caylee home in the middle of the night. Casey says she took Caylee home to bed. Cell phone records have not been released prior to May.

I am still working on the ping records.. but preliminary review shows that she often left in the middle of the night and went back home.

The incident in

That would make sense.

KC often drove back and forth at erratic hours.

Wasn't the distance only a few miles?

 

[Brini]

And IIRC, while CA denied this incident ever happened, she did not deny that Caylee was in fact in her own bed when she awoke in the morning. Anyone have links or quotes? I can't remember the exact details of this truely bizzare incident. But, I do remember when this particualr story first got out, I wondered if "blackouts" weren't an issue for Cindy.

Blackouts in a nurse.. even an office nurse, would have been noticed.

Her license would have been imperiled.

I suggest that she just lied or forgot.

 

[Brini]

It wouldn't raise a red flag (or any other color) if not for CA denying it ever happened.

Why a red flag?

CA has denied that A LOT of things ever happened. And, has insisted that things that did happen had not.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Which date does the ping support? June 9 to 10? (last day at RM's?) or June 13 (while at TL's)? That would be without Caylee - right? KC would have gone home and stayed home I would think as supposedly Caylee never stayed over at TL's.

It makes no sense that KC would take Caylee home the night of the 9th and return. Who would watch Caylee in the morning? Was CA on vacation then?
adding - CA returned to work on June 9 therefore she would go to work AM of 10th, 11th, 12, and 13th. June 14 would be a Saturday and 15th Sunday, Father's Day.

Something has always bugged me and continues to bug me - prior to any dates having been claimed by CA - KC said I haven't seen my daughter for 31 days which would have been since June 14 from the day KC said that (on phone to 911 operator). If KC brought Caylee home the morning of the 14th and left again, that would mean that CA was the last one to have Caylee. If the pictures on the 15th are/were proved to be true, that is the last hard evidence in existance to who last had Caylee. All other evidence is peoples' words - all of whom lie - no real proof.

CA was on vacation the first week of June 2008. Back to work June 9.

 

[Brini]

I just think it is odd that KC didn't know it was inappropriate to have sleep-overs at her boy du jour's place with her toddler. CA had to tell her this? Does KC lack judgment of any kind?

KC doesn't care. She only cares about gratification for herself.

 

[Brini]

Your post shows how clearly KC was leading a double - heck triple - life.

She was in a fresh relationship with TonE and had a new job/responsibility at Fusion -- couldn't let any of them down and trying very hard to keep TonE's attention.

She was still somewhat included and involved with her old group of friends (AH, RM, etc) and lying her way out of spending time with them yet still taking advantage by sleeping over to escape her mother and even sleeping with RM after already being with TonE! (I actually feel really bad for this group...they seemed to love KC and accepted Caylee and she just USED them). The lies she told this group yet continuing to string them along floor me.

Of course, she was also living the life of KC the daughter and mother to Caylee and trying to hold up that facade at home as well....lying and creating emails to secure her escape from the home to be at her "job" at Fusion (can you imagine how stressful that was...praying, hoping CA will ok babysitting so she can be the shot girl and not let TonE down??).....being called home by CA and called out for poor judgement and behavior.

She was juggling 3 sets of people here....3 personas....3 lifestyles.

KC is a people pleaser. I think that's evident from her chamelion like character. She was never honest with any of them and it all caught up to her. She lied big major lies and, instead of coming clean, she just kept on lying.

Holding together all of the "lives" and juggling all the people obviously became too much for her. The weeks leading up to poor Caylee's demise is so obvious when you see posts like yours above! She must have been exhausted. (poor sweet Caylee!!!)

Not exhaustion-- anger and expedience.

 

[Brini]

I am glad that you posted this, it has been bugging the heck out of me too. I believe that KC told RM that CA called and told her to bring Caylee home, but CA said that it never happened. I have often wondered if maybe KC put her in the trunk thinking that she and RM would get intimate.

No evidence of Caylee being in the trunk, at this point.

There is, as others have posted, evidence that CA called KC to bring the baby home on MORE than one occasion.

But, CA doesn't want to admit that to LE. It would make Gorgeous seem promiscuous and negligent.

Given that the posted records indicate that KC brought Caylee home in the middle of the night MORE than once.. where is the mystery?


This is how rumors start. We have one episode of KC bringing Caylee home at 0300 (documented by pings). And, the next thing we know, we are discussing chloroform experiments at TonEs.

 

[Brini]

(respectfully bolded by me)
A person with a job would likely just stay home but Casey's life was her boyfriend it seems.
This scenario has always bothered me. If her Mother was bothering her by calling, KC could have just turned off her phone. Maybe Caylee was sick and crying to go home.

Or, KC wanted to be alone with this week's bf.

 

[Brini]

Cindy did notice (reference Cindy's FBI interviews). She said that if Caylee woke up during the night and was alone and could not touch someone, Caylee would scream. She further said that this is why Caylee *always* had to sleep with someone else in their bed, rather than in her own bed (either KC or Cindy).

(Sorry if this has already been brought up in the thread. I just started reading from the beginning.)

Which may or may not have been true.

Or, it may have been true when Caylee was staying w/ CA.

 

[Brini]

I think the experimenting with the chlorform might be a good thought. Is this around the time the searches were done on the computer for chloroform? I thought it a bit strange the R does not hear KC get a phone call/get up/get Caylee/walk out the door and walk back in the door? What? one of these things should wake him

Not necessarily. My SO could sleep through WWIII.