KC's last night with RM - Where did she bring Caylee? *REVISIT*

[Solomisskitty]

Odd to me that Ricardo knew that Caylee had disappeared during the night, but was not questioned if he knew where she went, which would have been a natural question, at least to me. He never elaborated or stated that he asked. Just that Caylee wasn't there in the morning. Strange.

 

[Cher352]

I have always wondered about this night too and where Caylee had gone. I can't imagine that if ICA took Caylee home at CA request that she would have come back.

Seems like ICA always had made up good lies about where she was spending the night but coming home and leaving again in the middle of the night...it would be harder to come with an explanation that was believable for that.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Odd to me that Ricardo knew that Caylee had disappeared during the night, but was not questioned if he knew where she went, which would have been a natural question, at least to me. He never elaborated or stated that he asked. Just that Caylee wasn't there in the morning. Strange.

My understanding is that Ricardo did ask and she told him she took Caylee home in the middle of the night.

I think NO way was she drugging Caylee all the time and putting her in the trunk. For one, the hot Florida sun....for another, ICA is no chemist or pharmacist and poor Caylee probably would have left us sooner IMHO.

I also think it's important, when looking at the pings, to consider that not all these times she was driving around late did she have Caylee with her. I'm willing to bet that many times she did not, as she was "working late" and Caylee was with George and Cindy.

So where was Caylee? One poster above has a simple, sensible explanation that basically says that ICA only lied about the time of the call being in the middle of the night....that perhaps either Cindy had called in the morning before he got up and asked about Caylee, or that ICA took Caylee home so she could go to "work" and just made up the phone call.

My other thought is a bit more out there. Yes RM would let Caylee stay in the bed with them, but as he testified he was pretty certain they weren't intimate when Caylee was present. I'm wondering if ICA wasn't really making use of that vacant apartment for a while that Zanny supposedly lived in. In Cindy's deposition in the ZFG case, there is a lot of talk about an air mattress that ICA used to cart with her sometimes when she was crashing at Zanny's. Yet nobody else I've heard has ever talked about KC bringing an air mattress to their house when she crashed there. So why did she need it? Wondering if she was able to break in some how, or if the maintenance guy left the key in the door or something....might account for some of the time she was supposedly "working" or maybe Caylee was originally supposed to die or be found there....in an abandoned apartment on an air mattress with duct tape, the kidnapper long gone. Maybe that day, Caylee was locked in there with a bag of her toys, playing so ICA could be with her man. Maybe when she stopped dating Ricardo and started dating TonE that became less convenient....wild, I know, but no wilder than any other theory we have!

 

[Solomisskitty]

@Irish Eyes: Thank you for your reply, as unsettling as it is. So Casey SAID that she took the child home. And this was what date? As for the inflatable bed, I am not familiar with that and would really rather not consider the implications and convenience of that!

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Seriously though, don't you think she knew that apartment was vacant? I don't think it was a lucky guess. I think she thought they'd see a vacant apartment and think "Oh no! Zanny's on the run!"

 

[cluciano63]

Can just anyone buy chloroform?

 

[carole]

Can just anyone buy chloroform?

She didn't need to buy it. She googled "how to make chloroform" on her laptop and also googled the ingredients on those websites.

 

[amyLynn]

I just can't figure it out either, but I don't see how any child could survive in the trunk all night in FL. The heat would kill her even in September IMO. Besides, how could KC get Caylee in and out of the trunk in all these parking lots without someone seeing her? What if she woke up? From what I've read, chloroform only lasts about 45 minutes to 2 hours.

September
Average high temperature: 89.7
Average low temperature: 72.4
Average precipitation: 6.01
Average humidity (1pm): 60
Record high (1988): 98
Record low (1981): 57

Remember Casey's car had interior access to the trunk if you fold either of the back seats down. She could have easily put Caylee in the trunk without ever opening the exterior trunk compartment.

 

[loghomemom]

I totally agree! Although I believe the "nanny" began as "xanax", your theory is the same as mine. And yep, I got shivers when Ricardo gave his testimony about waking up and Caylee being gone, but Casey was still there. (Why would Cindy call in the middle of the night and ask her to bring the baby home and WHY, if she brought the baby home, would Casey come back?)

I, too, found Ricardo's testimony riveting! I think I literally skipped a breath when he testified that Casey got irritated when Caylee wouldn't go to sleep.

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, as this is my first posting.
I have always wondered about the INFLATABLE MATTRESS.
The one that CA said ICA "kept in her trunk" in case ICA needed it for Caylee.
When CA gave this statement to LE, it was in the A's garage.
NOT in ICA's trunk... when was it taken out??

Didn't ICA tell CA that 'Zanny' "had everything Caylee needed" i.e. shoes, clothes, toys, etc.?? According to ICA "Zanny" even had a pink floral car seat for Caylee.

My theory, I suppose, is that ICA used the inflatable mattress in her car--with the back seats folded down for extra room--as an impromtu bed for little Caylee.
Does anyone else think ICA may have put Caylee there that night at Ricardo's?
I can't recall, but was this mattress taken in the search warrant on the A's home 12/11/08 or after?

Again, apologies if this has been discussed/debated before. I have followed since day one, just have not posted at WS. So glad to be here!

 

[Tuffy]

I, too, found Ricardo's testimony riveting! I think I literally skipped a breath when he testified that Casey got irritated when Caylee wouldn't go to sleep.

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, as this is my first posting.
I have always wondered about the INFLATABLE MATTRESS.
The one that CA said ICA "kept in her trunk" in case ICA needed it for Caylee.
When CA gave this statement to LE, it was in the A's garage.
NOT in ICA's trunk... when was it taken out??

Didn't ICA tell CA that 'Zanny' "had everything Caylee needed" i.e. shoes, clothes, toys, etc.?? According to ICA "Zanny" even had a pink floral car seat for Caylee.

My theory, I suppose, is that ICA used the inflatable mattress in her car--with the back seats folded down for extra room--as an impromtu bed for little Caylee.
Does anyone else think ICA may have put Caylee there that night at Ricardo's?
I can't recall, but was this mattress taken in the search warrant on the A's home 12/11/08 or after?

Again, apologies if this has been discussed/debated before. I have followed since day one, just have not posted at WS. So glad to be here!

I think that Casey didn't use the mattress at Ricardo's. I don't recall him mentioning it. Also, the Pontiac isn't that big that I would imagine a mattress fitting inside, even with the seats down.

My guess is that it was a prop used to convince her mom that she was staying over at Zanny's house, or whatever.

ETA - I think Cindy would have had a fit, if she found out Casey had Caylee in bed with her boyfriend.

 

[Tink]

I just can't figure it out either, but I don't see how any child could survive in the trunk all night in FL. The heat would kill her even in September IMO. Besides, how could KC get Caylee in and out of the trunk in all these parking lots without someone seeing her? What if she woke up? From what I've read, chloroform only lasts about 45 minutes to 2 hours.

September
Average high temperature: 89.7
Average low temperature: 72.4
Average precipitation: 6.01
Average humidity (1pm): 60
Record high (1988): 98
Record low (1981): 57

But looking at these temps, I don't think that the child would be killed by the heat AT NIGHT. What makes a car so hot in the daytime is the sun shining in through the glass windows, so that the car quickly gets hotter than the outside temperatures. At night, in the dark, the car would only be the same as the outside temps - so no different than if the child was sleeping in a non-air conditioned apartment. A temp of 72 degrees would be pretty comfortable!

Teresa

 

[strawberry]

I, too, found Ricardo's testimony riveting! I think I literally skipped a breath when he testified that Casey got irritated when Caylee wouldn't go to sleep.

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, as this is my first posting.
I have always wondered about the INFLATABLE MATTRESS.
The one that CA said ICA "kept in her trunk" in case ICA needed it for Caylee.
When CA gave this statement to LE, it was in the A's garage.
NOT in ICA's trunk... when was it taken out??

Didn't ICA tell CA that 'Zanny' "had everything Caylee needed" i.e. shoes, clothes, toys, etc.?? According to ICA "Zanny" even had a pink floral car seat for Caylee.

My theory, I suppose, is that ICA used the inflatable mattress in her car--with the back seats folded down for extra room--as an impromtu bed for little Caylee.
Does anyone else think ICA may have put Caylee there that night at Ricardo's?
I can't recall, but was this mattress taken in the search warrant on the A's home 12/11/08 or after?

Again, apologies if this has been discussed/debated before. I have followed since day one, just have not posted at WS. So glad to be here!

:greetings: :welcome4:

 

[loghomemom]

I think that Casey didn't use the mattress at Ricardo's. I don't recall him mentioning it. Also, the Pontiac isn't that big that I would imagine a mattress fitting inside, even with the seats down.

My guess is that it was a prop used to convince her mom that she was staying over at Zanny's house, or whatever.

ETA - I think Cindy would have had a fit, if she found out Casey had Caylee in bed with her boyfriend.

Ricardo never mentioned the mattress. He would have had no knowledge of it, per se, if ICA were using it in her car. I don't think Casey would have taken it into the apartment for Caylee to sleep on.

The measurements of the mattress were never given to my knowledge. However, a child's size would fit inside the Pontiac with the rear seats folded down.

I DO AGREE with you that Cindy would have had an enormous fit if she had ever known Caylee to be sleeping in the same bed as Casey and any so called 'boyfriend'.

As for only using the mattress as a 'prop', we all know what lengths Casey went to just to obtain cash for 'her' selfish pleasures. I don't see Casey spending money on an item to be solely used as a prop for an alibi and go unused.

Again, just my opinion and appreciate yours!

 

[loghomemom]

:greetings: :welcome4:

:luv:

Thank you! Glad to be here!

 

[Atlanta PI]

I just think it is odd that KC didn't know it was inappropriate to have sleep-overs at her boy du jour's place with her toddler. CA had to tell her this? Does KC lack judgment of any kind?

I think you hit the nail right on the head.

 

[Atlanta PI]

This episode has always bothered me too. I wonder if KC was experimenting with chloroform or some other sleep inducing drug on this night. With the xanex, she would just crush it and add it to something Caylee drank. With chloroform maybe she waited until Caylee and RM were asleep and then held a rag soaked with it above their nose? I've thought maybe she used say chloroform on RM and Caylee that night, testing it out, to see if it would keep RM out, to see what he would sleep through.

Hi, I'm new here - have been 'lurking' for a while, but wanted to join in. This case has affected me like no other. I can't imagine the life Caylee led.

Anyway, this very question has ALWAYS bothered me - what happened to Caylee that night? I just don't think KC took her home. IMO she would have also just stayed there, also.

I have always suspected, like the above poster, that either KC was conducting a 'dry run', experimenting w/chemical combos and seeing if she could quietly get Caylee out RM's place. Is it possible she was planning to kill Caylee while staying overnight at RM's, dump the baby's body during the night, so both KC and RM would wake up in the morning to find Caylee 'missing'? Or in some way try to frame RM for Caylee's death?

Don't Forget I don't believe she took her home either. I think she was in the trunk. Your theory is interesting.

 

[Atlanta PI]

Or, unless CA was wrong.

Why are we assuming that CA didn't either lie or forget?

And, what does this have to do with the crime?

ICA didn't put her in the trunk that night?

 

[Atlanta PI]

Ricardo never mentioned the mattress. He would have had no knowledge of it, per se, if ICA were using it in her car. I don't think Casey would have taken it into the apartment for Caylee to sleep on.

The measurements of the mattress were never given to my knowledge. However, a child's size would fit inside the Pontiac with the rear seats folded down.

I DO AGREE with you that Cindy would have had an enormous fit if she had ever known Caylee to be sleeping in the same bed as Casey and any so called 'boyfriend'.

As for only using the mattress as a 'prop', we all know what lengths Casey went to just to obtain cash for 'her' selfish pleasures. I don't see Casey spending money on an item to be solely used as a prop for an alibi and go unused.

Again, just my opinion and appreciate yours!

Actually she probably didn 't pay for it herself - she probably bought it at JC Penney's or Sears with her Mom's' credit cards.

 

[Reality Orlando]

I actually think Casey might be (for once) telling the truth on this one! Only because it makes more sense that CA called and demanded she bring Caylee home, than for Casey to mysteriously get up in the middle of the night for no reason to put Caylee in the car trunk since it seems RM didn't have a problem with Caylee being there. MOO

I really don't believe that a child could survive in a car trunk in Florida for any length of time...even at night.

 

[txsvicki]

Without reading everywhere, I'm wondering what time Ricardo fell asleep, how long he'd been asleep, what time he noticed Caylee gone, what time Casey or he left the next day, and if he now thinks there's anything fishy about his falling asleep. Casey could have told Cindy that she worked late and Caylee was with a sitter. She could have taken her home, given Cindy a usual song and dance about having to go somewhere, went out and had drinks with another guy then got back to Ricardo's. If this was the last night then Casey probably had another guy already, a big story for Cindy, and plan b. I don't think she went out and put Caylee in the trunk at his home, but she may have tried out the chloroform on him and Amy at some point.