Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[Ontario Mom]

First, the lawsuit that had the Sheriff deposed a civil case, not criminal. And it is in Federal Court. So Mullins really had nothing to do with that. And no, witnesses are not generally privy to questions to asked them in a deposition. I don't know why you would have thought that.
Personally, I don't think that this killing had anything to do with the lawsuit regarding the deputy's actions.

I don't either.

 

[Friday Fan]

Blue Sign. Any Relevance?

sbm @Friday Fan Thanks for posting link to the longer vid of shooting.

I noticed the blue SIGN sitting on floor btwn desk & window. It says "Matt Butler" * plus more text that I can't read. At ~16 sec, more of sign is visible.

Can anyone decipher the rest of the sign? Maybe a campaign sign, for previous or future election? Or _______?

Any possible relevance to background or motive of Stine's shooting?

__________________________
* "...Letcher County Commonwealth's Attorney Matt Butler recused himself from the case due to familial ties. Butler and Mullins were once brothers-in-law." *
^ Kentucky sheriff remains behind bars after judge's death as details emerge Sept 25 story notes MATT

Butler was his brother in law. He's currently running for office.

 

[fsngruv]

First, the lawsuit that had the Sheriff deposed a civil case, not criminal. And it is in Federal Court. So Mullins really had nothing to do with that. And no, witnesses are not generally privy to questions to asked them in a deposition. I don't know why you would have thought that.
Personally, I don't think that this killing had anything to do with the lawsuit regarding the deputy's actions.

I was a mere paralegal, and that was my experience in civil suits when getting interrogatories, though, admittedly mainly through domestic cases, so I am not trying to state anything as fact and I could be completely mistaken with my fairly limited experience. Forgive me for my lack of understanding.

As I stated, but not clearly, I wondered if the information that could come out through the civil disposition could lead to federal criminal charges against the sheriff, as often happens in other famous cases. (Again, forgive my ignorance!) It's just a thought. Might just be a coincidence!

Could be my limited understanding, so please, again forgive it and thanks for your reply! I would default to your judgement as you are an attorney as I would to my supervising attorney, but we're all just stating opinions, some more outlandish than the others, and who knows why many think what they think, I'm definitely not going jump on that train. But toot away!

 

[Seattle1]

First, the lawsuit that had the Sheriff deposed a civil case, not criminal. And it is in Federal Court. So Mullins really had nothing to do with that. And no, witnesses are not generally privy to questions to asked them in a deposition. I don't know why you would have thought that.
Personally, I don't think that this killing had anything to do with the lawsuit regarding the deputy's actions.

I agree that the shooting of Mullins had nothing to do with the deputy's actions. The depositions of both Fields and Stines for the 2022 civil action had been delayed in part because the Plaintiff was incarcerated on an unrelated an matter. In fact, following the depos, Plaintiff had moved for the case to go to mediation. IMO, I think all parties were prepared for settlement very soon and were surprised about the shooting as everybody else. JMO

Post in thread 'Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024'

Sep 25, 2024

Could you highlight what was interesting, if you have time please?

Also, haven’t been able to follow closely. Did we know Judge Mullins gave a deposition on the lawsuit September 16th? Is that thought to be relevant?

Judge Mullins did not give a depo on Sept 16, the depo was by Sheriff Stines, a defendant in the Civil Lawsuit. Mullins is not named in the subject lawsuit. (See Dkt entry #115 below).

The Plaintiffs lawyer (Ned?) for the Civil lawsuit reference to Judge Mullins was that Mullins did not recuse himself from the criminal cases his clients were involved in, and this...

• Seattle1

• 

 

[PrairieWind]

Butler was his brother in law. He's currently running for office.

A judge can certainly support whoever he wants for office just like anyone else. But a Judge cannot use their office to any way favor a candidate. So having actual campaign sings in his chambers isn't really proper. Its a small community, and I dont think it was a big deal, but it isn't something that should be done. We don't know why the sign was there. But given that he was smoking in his chambers, in a government building, could show that the Judge Mullins sort of played a bit fast and lose with rules. "Rule for thee, not for me." That could be relevant.

 

[fsngruv]

I agree that the shooting of Mullins had nothing to do with the deputy's actions. The depositions of both Fields and Stines for the 2022 civil action had been delayed in part because the Plaintiff was incarcerated on an unrelated an matter. In fact, following the depos, Plaintiff had moved for the case to go to mediation. IMO, I think all parties were prepared for settlement very soon and were surprised about the shooting as everybody else. JMO

Post in thread 'Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024'

Sep 25, 2024

Could you highlight what was interesting, if you have time please?

Also, haven’t been able to follow closely. Did we know Judge Mullins gave a deposition on the lawsuit September 16th? Is that thought to be relevant?

Judge Mullins did not give a depo on Sept 16, the depo was by Sheriff Stines, a defendant in the Civil Lawsuit. Mullins is not named in the subject lawsuit. (See Dkt entry #115 below).

The Plaintiffs lawyer (Ned?) for the Civil lawsuit reference to Judge Mullins was that Mullins did not recuse himself from the criminal cases his clients were involved in, and this...

• Seattle1

• 

I definitely agree, I don't believe the actions of the deputy had anything to do with Mullins.

I just wonder if stines believed he was ultimately untouchable because of his own perceived relationship with Mullins, and he thought it might extend to his own negligent or felonious actions?

I imagine Mullins is an upstanding guy and judicious in most ways; he'd probably tell stines he doesn't care if they are friends, or if stines is the sheriff, if stines actually did something criminal or engaged in some wrong doing, I expect the judge to stand by the system he represents and not his buddy.

Maybe Stines thought his last chance to whatever he was facing was the judge being on his side and when the judge wasn't, stines shot him, because he "was already going to lose everything"?

And yes, that is all a bit of fantastic idea, but I really can't imagine Mullins being involved in any wrong doing at all.

 

[Elley Mae]

A judge can certainly support whoever he wants for office just like anyone else. But a Judge cannot use their office to any way favor a candidate. So having actual campaign sings in his chambers isn't really proper. Its a small community, and I dont think it was a big deal, but it isn't something that should be done. We don't know why the sign was there. But given that he was smoking in his chambers, in a government building, could show that the Judge Mullins sort of played a bit fast and lose with rules. "Rule for thee, not for me." That could be relevant.

My thoughts as well.

 

[Seattle1]

Neither Fields actions nor the the subject civil lawsuit appeared to affect the voters decision to re-elect Stines in 2022:

Post in thread 'Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024'

Sep 23, 2024

Although Sheriff Stines was named in a Civil Lawsuit on Jan 31, 2022 regarding claims of SA by his deputy (Fields), Stines went on to be re-elected as Sheriff on Nov 8, 2022 -- receiving 75% of the votes cast. See page 5/10 of election tally results.

https://elect.ky.gov/results/2020-2029/2022ElectionReports/GeneralRecaps/Letcher%20County.pdf

ETA: Add 2018 Election results

One of the most closely contested races was the Democratic race between two deputy sheriffs, both vying to be the new sheriff after the retirement of Sheriff Danny Webb at the end of this term. The leader in...

• Seattle1

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• 

 

[Ontario Mom]

I definitely agree, I don't believe the actions of the deputy had anything to do with Mullins.

I just wonder if stines believed he was ultimately untouchable because of his own perceived relationship with Mullins, and he thought it might extend to his own negligent or felonious actions?

I imagine Mullins is an upstanding guy and judicious in most ways; he'd probably tell stines he doesn't care if they are friends, or if stines is the sheriff, if stines actually did something criminal or engaged in some wrong doing, I expect the judge to stand by the system he represents and not his buddy.

Maybe Stines thought his last chance to whatever he was facing was the judge being on his side and when the judge wasn't, stines shot him, because he "was already going to lose everything"?

And yes, that is all a bit of fantastic idea, but I really can't imagine Mullins being involved in any wrong doing at all.

If Stines was involved in something criminal & thought the judge would have his back, it seems like shooting him would only make matters a million times worse. Not to mention, the calls to his daughter from his phone and the judge's phone immediately prior to the shooting doesn't seem to fit into that scenario.

I suspect the motive is already known to everyone involved in this case. Between whatever Stines has told his lawyer, the interviews with the daughter and the data on the phones. When the public will find out what that motive is, is anyone's guess.

jmo

 

[Friday Fan]

A judge can certainly support whoever he wants for office just like anyone else. But a Judge cannot use their office to any way favor a candidate. So having actual campaign sings in his chambers isn't really proper. Its a small community, and I dont think it was a big deal, but it isn't something that should be done. We don't know why the sign was there. But given that he was smoking in his chambers, in a government building, could show that the Judge Mullins sort of played a bit fast and lose with rules. "Rule for thee, not for me." That could be relevant.

Yep, I sure noticed that! It should not have been in his chambers. (It's a nit-pick, side-show quirk for me, I wonder how long the sign was there and I wonder what the plan was with the sign? Did he get it at lunch? Was he gonna hide it before he had any hearings? Was it sitting for there for x days?. Not relevant to this case, but it's a quirk, like his smoking)
Judges here don't put campaigns signs up for any candidate but themselves. Campaign ethics for judges are strict. They can't even sign petitions.

 

[al66pine]

Letcher County Website. Stale Info.

This needs updating.

Letcher County

www.letchercounty.ky.gov

@Elley Mae Yes.

Opening the "Local Officials" page just now, I see:
Commonwealth Attorney = Edison G. Banks, II. (several months stale?)
County Sheriff = Mickey Stines.

Sheriff pic - w his wife & dau included in photo- caught my attn.

Did not look at info re other officials.

 

[Friday Fan]

This needs updating.

Letcher County

www.letchercounty.ky.gov

Lots of local gov sites need updating.
It seems to be an issue in lots of places.

 

[Sillybilly]

Stop the snarky comments and the hyperfocusing on tiny comments to justify bickering. There is NO justification for them.

It's tedious for other to read and totally unnecessary. Just learn to raise your lovely eyebrows and scroll and roll without engaging each other in minutiae over nothing.

 

[Seattle1]

I definitely agree, I don't believe the actions of the deputy had anything to do with Mullins.

I just wonder if stines believed he was ultimately untouchable because of his own perceived relationship with Mullins, and he thought it might extend to his own negligent or felonious actions?

I imagine Mullins is an upstanding guy and judicious in most ways; he'd probably tell stines he doesn't care if they are friends, or if stines is the sheriff, if stines actually did something criminal or engaged in some wrong doing, I expect the judge to stand by the system he represents and not his buddy.

Maybe Stines thought his last chance to whatever he was facing was the judge being on his side and when the judge wasn't, stines shot him, because he "was already going to lose everything"?

And yes, that is all a bit of fantastic idea, but I really can't imagine Mullins being involved in any wrong doing at all.

I have to disagree. The criminal case long ago was investigated, went to the grand jury, and nobody was indicted or prosecuted here except for Fields.

To be clear, not including Defendant deputy Fields, both Defendants in the subject CIVIL action, Lethcer County Sheriff Stines- in his official capacity as the Sheriff, and Eastern Kentucky Correctional Services, Inc., engaged in the business of providing pretrial ankle monitoring services in Letcher County, were not named Individually in the lawsuit by the Plaintiffs.

This lawsuit is a perfect example of what comes with part of the job of being sheriff or providing services to the department, and is treated as claims against the County.

In other words, it's long understood in Kentucky (and elsewhere) that Official-capacity civil suits are simply “another way of pleading an action against an entity of which an officer is an agent.” Kentucky v. Graham, 473 U.S. 159, 166 (1985). This suit as all civil suits is about going for the source of the money, where the only relief available to the plaintiff is monetary damages.

Be reminded that shortly after Stines was elected Sheriff, a former deputy Cogleton-- under then Sheriff Webb, filed a civil action against Stines when he failed to hire her after he was elected sheriff -- citing civil rights violations. She too sued Stines both Individually and under Official-capacity and her suit was dismissed under both.

Judge dismisses civil rights claim against sheriff - The Mountain Eagle

A federal judge has dismissed the civil rights case filed by a former deputy against Letcher County Sheriff Mickey Stines. U.S. District Judge Karen Caldwell signed the order dismissing the suit filed by Alisha Congleton last year. Congleton, who was a sergeant with the Letcher County Sheriff ’s...

www.themountaineagle.com

 

[Friday Fan]

I definitely agree, I don't believe the actions of the deputy had anything to do with Mullins.

I just wonder if stines believed he was ultimately untouchable because of his own perceived relationship with Mullins, and he thought it might extend to his own negligent or felonious actions?

I imagine Mullins is an upstanding guy and judicious in most ways; he'd probably tell stines he doesn't care if they are friends, or if stines is the sheriff, if stines actually did something criminal or engaged in some wrong doing, I expect the judge to stand by the system he represents and not his buddy.

Maybe Stines thought his last chance to whatever he was facing was the judge being on his side and when the judge wasn't, stines shot him, because he "was already going to lose everything"?

And yes, that is all a bit of fantastic idea, but I really can't imagine Mullins being involved in any wrong doing at all.

From what I read, Stines appeared to be "bothered by something" in the weeks leading up to this.

Was it stress from the deposition?
Did he have health problems?
Was he having personal problems?
Other not known, work stress etc?
Or all of the above?

MOO: The way he shot the judge sorta reminded me of clips I've seen of school shooters. But maybe he shot that way because he's a cop. My gut goes with mood changes in the weeks before this. Just MOO....

 

[GoBuckeyes]

What are the likely scenarios under which we'll be able to learn the Sheriff's motive or motives, and how long will we likely have to wait? TIA

 

[OldAce]

I definitely agree, I don't believe the actions of the deputy had anything to do with Mullins.

I just wonder if stines believed he was ultimately untouchable because of his own perceived relationship with Mullins, and he thought it might extend to his own negligent or felonious actions?

I imagine Mullins is an upstanding guy and judicious in most ways; he'd probably tell stines he doesn't care if they are friends, or if stines is the sheriff, if stines actually did something criminal or engaged in some wrong doing, I expect the judge to stand by the system he represents and not his buddy.

Maybe Stines thought his last chance to whatever he was facing was the judge being on his side and when the judge wasn't, stines shot him, because he "was already going to lose everything"?

And yes, that is all a bit of fantastic idea, but I really can't imagine Mullins being involved in any wrong doing at all.

"I imagine Mullins is an upstanding guy and judicious in most ways; he'd probably tell stines he doesn't care if they are friends, or if stines is the sheriff, if stines actually did something criminal or engaged in some wrong doing, I expect the judge to stand by the system he represents and not his bud"

Would this logic not apply in reverse to Stines as well, since as I interpret he was held in high esteem in the past.

 

[fsngruv]

I have to disagree. The criminal case long ago was investigated, went to the grand jury, and nobody was indicted or prosecuted here except for Fields.

To be clear, not including Defendant deputy Fields, both Defendants in the subject CIVIL action, Lethcer County Sheriff Stines- in his official capacity as the Sheriff, and Eastern Kentucky Correctional Services, Inc., engaged in the business of providing pretrial ankle monitoring services in Letcher County, were not named Individually in the lawsuit by the Plaintiffs.

This lawsuit is a perfect example of what comes with part of the job of being sheriff or providing services to the department, and is treated as claims against the County.

In other words, it's long understood in Kentucky (and elsewhere) that Official-capacity civil suits are simply “another way of pleading an action against an entity of which an officer is an agent.” Kentucky v. Graham, 473 U.S. 159, 166 (1985). This suit as all civil suits is about going for the source of the money, where the only relief available to the plaintiff is monetary damages.

Be reminded that shortly after Stines was elected Sheriff, a former deputy Cogleton-- under then Sheriff Webb, filed a civil action against Stines when he failed to hire her after he was elected sheriff -- citing civil rights violations. She too sued Stines both Individually and under Official-capacity and her suit was dismissed under both.

Judge dismisses civil rights claim against sheriff - The Mountain Eagle

A federal judge has dismissed the civil rights case filed by a former deputy against Letcher County Sheriff Mickey Stines. U.S. District Judge Karen Caldwell signed the order dismissing the suit filed by Alisha Congleton last year. Congleton, who was a sergeant with the Letcher County Sheriff ’s...

www.themountaineagle.com

For clarity, are you saying you think actions of deputy fields had something to do with Mullins?

I don't.

And I kinda doubt deputy Fields actions had anything to do with Stines actions.

Maybe there is some other broader sweeping conspiracy only involving stines and other unnamed parties?

More It's definitely to come!

 

[fsngruv]

"I imagine Mullins is an upstanding guy and judicious in most ways; he'd probably tell stines he doesn't care if they are friends, or if stines is the sheriff, if stines actually did something criminal or engaged in some wrong doing, I expect the judge to stand by the system he represents and not his bud"

Would this logic not apply in reverse to Stines as well, since as I interpret he was held in high esteem in the past.

Right!! Very good point!

It's so very perplexing!!!

 

[al66pine]

ITEMS in OFFICE?
Difficult for me to identify some, not that they're necessarily relevant.
Do they all belong to judge?
Did he or someone else CARRY them in or out office that day or after lunch?Esp'ly the backpacks?
Did earlier vid show judge, sheriff, or someone else retrieving an item or stashing an item?

- Brown backpack on desktop, full-ish, w top unzipped.
leans against stack of (maybe 6?) books.

- Black back(?)pack on desktop, full-ish, w side unzipped, papers showing.

- Sheet of paper at desk's right side. An info-graphic printed on it? Of what?

- The item on floor underneath desk corner, close to judge's feet. Has 2 black wheels, connected to hinged arm, w bulldozer-like bucket on end. Mining related? Toy or model?
(ETA: Whoops, I was off by a mile. I missed earlier post calling it a file dolly.
Thx for info @Friday Fan Makes sense. )


Paraphrasing one of Yogi Berra's famous quotes---
You can observe a lot by just looking around.

Yogi Berra - Wikiquote

en.wikiquote.org

But not ^ saying items have any significance to the case.

Vid w ^ items.