Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[SapphireSteel]

Intruder. Straight up intruder. There is no proof of any of the theories about the family. No history of abuse, no sexual abuse, no malicious intent.

I believe that Patsy loved that child and would not have harmed her for anything. I believe that some sick person came in and took the child down to the basement and killed and molested her.

I think of all the cases where children were taken from their home and the parents were grilled and even imprisoned when it was some crazy sicko.

I know I am in the minority here. I am not much of a conspiracy theorist. I like facts and to get me to believe a parent did this to their child, You need to prove it to me. Not with comments or whisper down the lane information that become fact the more people hear them but real facts. Real proof.

To blame a 9 yr old kid? That is just as horrible to me.

I hope in her fathers lifetime they find the person that did this to his daughter.

NOT snarking...but a non-conspiracy theorist would go for the most obvious explanation which in this case, is RDI.

:truce:

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

My guess is they knew little to nothing about fiber transfer and did not plan for it at all. You have to remember that out there, away from crime web sites - you know where there are people with real lives - most people don't talk about primary/secondary transfer of fibers. Most people would never think about it.

As for showering, I don't know how much we can make of it, except to say that JR showered and PR didn't (apparently). Usually we'd figure taking a show is to get clean - both in the everyday sense, and in the criminal/forensic sense.

As far as ever day type showering, some people like to do it in the morning I guess. JR didn't really get dirty in a blue collar sense. He just sat in an air conditioned office and wheeled and dealed, so I suppose he wasn't really going to bed "dirty".

Ah the real world and their innocence. My daughter bought a second hand car several years ago and was told by the seller's that a two liter Dr. Pepper had exploded in the car.

She came to show me her new car and to take me for a ride. As I got in the car I saw splatter of the "Dr. Pepper" on the headliner and my first thought was blood spatter.

When we got back she opened the door on the right rear passenger side and I could see more blood splatter across the backseat seat. I could see where it started and stopped. I saw a whole lot of blood soaked into the back of the front seat and head rest, where someone had a fallen forward and was bleeding out. I could see several rivets of blood running down to the floor board where it had soaked in to it.
I could see that who ever it was they didn't die quickly and it wasn't a Dr Pepper.

My daughter tried to call and see if she could return the car and the number was no longer in service. I told her that the car had most likely been bought at a car action and was probably one that had been wrote off as salvage and someone bought it to make a few bucks. I blame my knowledge of murder on my daddy's true detective magazines which I would sneak out to read.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Intruder. Straight up intruder. There is no proof of any of the theories about the family. No history of abuse, no sexual abuse, no malicious intent.

I believe that Patsy loved that child and would not have harmed her for anything. I believe that some sick person came in and took the child down to the basement and killed and molested her.

I think of all the cases where children were taken from their home and the parents were grilled and even imprisoned when it was some crazy sicko.

I know I am in the minority here. I am not much of a conspiracy theorist. I like facts and to get me to believe a parent did this to their child, You need to prove it to me. Not with comments or whisper down the lane information that become fact the more people hear them but real facts. Real proof.

To blame a 9 yr old kid? That is just as horrible to me.

I hope in her fathers lifetime they find the person that did this to his daughter.

Yes Pasty did love JonBenet, but she didn't take good care of either of her children. Friends of Pasty were going to speak with her about what Pasty was doing to JonBenet. They showed more concern about what was happening to her than her own daddy did. JonBenet was an abused and exploited little girl and it wasn't by an intruder. There is plenty of evidence and fact that Jonbenet was being molested and then raped by something before she died. There are many clues that point to something going on in that household.

Why hasn't John found this intruder by now? I mean he's got money to hire a team of lawyers to hide behind ,but not really anything to find the sick twisted person that raped and killed his daughter. Especially any small foreign factions. Now that is where private detectives could do more than LE. They could do and go more places than regular LE to hunt people down. But John Ramsey hired PI's to slam and intimidate anyone who had the guts to point the finger back to his home.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Sorry. Completely disagree. I don't believe for one minute that JB was abused. I think a lot of parents like to pick on other peoples parenting styles. There are a lot of people that like to jump on the hating bandwagon with popular opinion.

I just don't buy it. I think people want to believe she was a monster. But I think in all the "information" about her as a mother, Most of it is supposition and smear to fit in with the RDI theorist.

Sorry. Til you show my a medical report, an incident report, Something from her school related to abuse, all you have is hearsay and speculation.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Sorry. Completely disagree. I don't believe for one minute that JB was abused. I think a lot of parents like to pick on other peoples parenting styles. There are a lot of people that like to jump on the hating bandwagon with popular opinion.

I just don't buy it. I think people want to believe she was a monster. But I think in all the "infromation" about her as a mother, Most of it is supposition and smear to fit in with the RDI theorist.

Sorry. Til you show my a medical report, an incident report, Something from her school related to abuse, all you have is hearsay and speculation.

I know what you're going to say, but WTH...

The vaginal injuries on the autopsy report?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

She was just assaulted and killed correct?

Show me the actual report that says she was sexually abused.

 

[LinasK]

Intruder. Straight up intruder. There is no proof of any of the theories about the family. No history of abuse, no sexual abuse, no malicious intent.

I believe that Patsy loved that child and would not have harmed her for anything. I believe that some sick person came in and took the child down to the basement and killed and molested her.

I think of all the cases where children were taken from their home and the parents were grilled and even imprisoned when it was some crazy sicko.

I know I am in the minority here. I am not much of a conspiracy theorist. I like facts and to get me to believe a parent did this to their child, You need to prove it to me. Not with comments or whisper down the lane information that become fact the more people hear them but real facts. Real proof.

To blame a 9 yr old kid? That is just as horrible to me.

I hope in her fathers lifetime they find the person that did this to his daughter.

And there is absolutely no proof of an intruder either- how did the intruder get in/out??? What about the unbroken spider web on the basement window and lack of any footprints in the snow. F.Y.I., I'm an RDI, but I'm not blaming a 9-year-old, I'm a JDI. I firmly believe John was sexually abusing her.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Sorry. Completely disagree. I don't believe for one minute that JB was abused. I think a lot of parents like to pick on other peoples parenting styles. There are a lot of people that like to jump on the hating bandwagon with popular opinion.

I just don't buy it. I think people want to believe she was a monster. But I think in all the "information" about her as a mother, Most of it is supposition and smear to fit in with the RDI theorist.

Sorry. Til you show my a medical report, an incident report, Something from her school related to abuse, all you have is hearsay and speculation.

I like your determination to block any accusation toward the parents. And I'll be with you...just for a moment. Let's assume that I do agree that it's hard to believe that loving parents can do such a things to their child. (Of course it happens in real life, but for the sake of the argument -let keep it simple). Now, you believe that intruder get inside into R house somehow (and again, to safe the time we're not going to discuss 'how' and 'when'). So, intruder is there to harm Ramsey. Now, here is the FACT (you asked for the fact and here you have it!). According to medical experts, the time between the head blow and strangulation is estimated 90 min. Means, that intruder took his time after he struck the child before he finally killed her. What do you think he was doing these 1 1/2 hours? Writing RN? Molesting?...eating pinapple?...it's pretty long time in the middle of the night....but this is not the end of it! Why would you think he/she (intruder!) would need to clean off JBR? Redress her? Cover in the blanket with her doll and nightgown? What I described so far are the FACTS: 1 1/2 hours, cleaning, redressing, covering....

I do respect your desire to based your theory/believes on the FACTS. So, please tell me how above stated facts fits into your explanation of IDI?!!! I honestly wants to know...

 

[Linda7NJ]

Intruder. Straight up intruder. There is no proof of any of the theories about the family. No history of abuse, no sexual abuse, no malicious intent.

I believe that Patsy loved that child and would not have harmed her for anything. I believe that some sick person came in and took the child down to the basement and killed and molested her.

I think of all the cases where children were taken from their home and the parents were grilled and even imprisoned when it was some crazy sicko.

I know I am in the minority here. I am not much of a conspiracy theorist. I like facts and to get me to believe a parent did this to their child, You need to prove it to me. Not with comments or whisper down the lane information that become fact the more people hear them but real facts. Real proof.

To blame a 9 yr old kid? That is just as horrible to me.

I hope in her fathers lifetime they find the person that did this to his daughter.

John knows who did it


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

The thing is I don't need to know what the intruder was doing in that time to believe it was one. I assume writing the ransom is one thing he had to finish. I have always felt like it was 2 people. Don't ask me why but it is something that struck me from the very beginning of the case.

I know that I am not any where as versed as many of you in the fine art of murder and theories, but this one sticks with me. I just feel with everything I have that it was an intruder. I know it is not popular. I know many think me naive.

I'm good with that.

 

[Linda7NJ]

She was just assaulted and killed correct?

Show me the actual report that says she was sexually abused.

So was the intruder a kidnapper ( for ransom no less) or a pedophile?

What pedophile would be in such a hurry he couldn't wait to remove jonbenet from the home, instead, he lures her to the basement and risks getting caught. .....makes zero sense.

A kidnap for ransom? He takes the time to write a three page ridiculous note on Patsy's tablet with her own pen but forgets the body?

Eyeroll



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[ILikeToBendPages]

I feel the same way. Arndt, Thomas and Kolar each arriving at a different R (but an R all the same) because they are ALL involved in it some way. I do not know whether Arndt has studied the case as much as the others- she very quickly was made a scapegoat for the blunders of the BPD (she WAS at fault, though not for all of them) and she developed "ramnesesia" right around the time she filed a lawsuit against the BPD. She was not involved in the case for long.
One thing to remember about Arndt. She was a rape victim specialist, not a homicide detective. She was trained to view women as victims. I am by no means belittling the horrible crime of rape or the suffering or rape victims, but Patsy appealed to her innate sense of viewing woman as vulnerable and men as aggressors. JR's mannerisms, and his behavior that day all raised red flags to her. Keep in mind that he was probably the only one she was watching closely. BR had been "hidden away" by removing from him ASAP to the White's before Arndt even got there that day, so she never saw his behavior. Patsy was surrounded by her pastor and "victims' advocates and the various friends they called over. I doubt Arndt really studied her either. She started out as sympathetic to Patsy.

I always wonder about Arndt saying she mentally counted the bullets in her gun after John brought her up. Why would she think she'd need any bullets for any of the people in the house?

 

[Whaleshark]

Additionally, if you are going on facts, then you need to narrow your intruder pool down to someone who knew about the INSIDE Ramsey joke about John using his 'good ol' southern common sense' - because it's in the ransom note, and John was not from the South, and the Ramseys said that was an inside joke.

 

[DeeDee249]

She was just assaulted and killed correct?

Show me the actual report that says she was sexually abused.

I take offense at "JUST assaulted and killed". Oh yeah... that's all it was- just a little bit molested and killed, no big deal, right? Just read the autopsy report. Pay close attention to the part where the hymen is eroded and there is bruising and blood in the vagina. Or do you not consider penetration of a child's vagina a sexual abuse?
And BOTH the school and the pediatrician REFUSED to allow police access to those reports. Why would they do that unless there was something to hide? This was a child's murder after all.

 

[Whaleshark]

The thing is I don't need to know what the intruder was doing in that time to believe it was one. I assume writing the ransom is one thing he had to finish. I have always felt like it was 2 people. Don't ask me why but it is something that struck me from the very beginning of the case.

I know that I am not any where as versed as many of you in the fine art of murder and theories, but this one sticks with me. I just feel with everything I have that it was an intruder. I know it is not popular. I know many think me naive.

I'm good with that.

You don't NEED to know what the intruder was doing during that time?

You just FEEL it?

... Or are you looking for facts?

Cuz I thought you said earlier you were looking for facts...

Seems like you really don't want to know all the facts like some of us have made a large investment of our time learning, because then you just may have to change your feelings about it...

Oh, and since you were looking for facts, supposedly, earlier... No, it was not determined that she was just assaulted that night, but that there was previous chronic injury to her vagina, hymen was torn away and shriveled, and it was determined that the size of her 'area' was much larger than that of other comparable 6 yr-olds. Yes, those are facts. That's not whisper and hearsay.

 

[OpenMind4U]

The thing is I don't need to know what the intruder was doing in that time to believe it was one. I assume writing the ransom is one thing he had to finish. I have always felt like it was 2 people. Don't ask me why but it is something that struck me from the very beginning of the case.

I know that I am not any where as versed as many of you in the fine art of murder and theories, but this one sticks with me. I just feel with everything I have that it was an intruder. I know it is not popular. I know many think me naive.

I'm good with that.

O dear! It's OK to be 'not popular'. And nothing wrong to be 'naive'. And you probably correct: whatever happens in Ramsey house at that night would need 2 people to accomplish all these tasks. I would agree with you on this one. The next question you should ask yourself: would they be THE STRANGERS or insiders? It's pretty hard to communicate between each other without making additional noises, coordinate the actions, hide the evidences....getting in and out of the house unnoticiable...Think about: if the goal is to harm Ramsey, molest/kill the child - why not take this child and do all these things OUTSIDE of the house? What is the reason to clean her up and cover in the blanket and HIDE her INSIDE of the closet? Why not leave her abused bloody body in the plain view for the shocking result??? The point I'm trying to make here: what these intruders were trying to accomplish??? Kidnapping or murder? If kidnapping then why leave body inside? If murder then why hiding the body? If molesting then why cleaning her body off??? I'm looking for REASONING...please help me with your 'feeling'....

 

[DeeDee249]

The thing is I don't need to know what the intruder was doing in that time to believe it was one. I assume writing the ransom is one thing he had to finish. I have always felt like it was 2 people. Don't ask me why but it is something that struck me from the very beginning of the case.

I know that I am not any where as versed as many of you in the fine art of murder and theories, but this one sticks with me. I just feel with everything I have that it was an intruder. I know it is not popular. I know many think me naive.

I'm good with that.

Were you on the Casey Anthony Jury? Just wondering. Because "feelings" got THAT baby killer set free, too. Glad you're OK with it, though. After all, she was "just" assaulted and killed.

 

[DeeDee249]

I always wonder about Arndt saying she mentally counted the bullets in her gun after John brought her up. Why would she think she'd need any bullets for any of the people in the house?

Although Arndt never spelled it out, what I think she meant was that if JR realized she suspected he had done this, he may have tried to attack her. If he did, he had a house full of "friends" there, too. Did she have enough bullets for all of them, of it came to that.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Is it any different from you supposing what J and P were doing? That is not fact if you think they did it, its all supposition. Why do I need to make up facts about what the intruder was doing to believe there was one?

Tell me what evidence you have that P and J were involved? There is none. There is just thoughts, hearsay, impressions.

So Im not going to make up facts because I don't know. Im okay with that.

I don't understand a mind that would do such a thing.

 

[Whaleshark]

Is it any different from you supposing what J and P were doing? That is not fact if you think they did it, its all supposition. Why do I need to make up facts about what the intruder was doing to believe there was one?

Tell me what evidence you have that P and J were involved? There is none. There is just thoughts, hearsay, impressions.

So Im not going to make up facts because I don't know. Im okay with that.

I don't understand a mind that would do such a thing.

It's different because we DO have evidence - and all of the items used in the crime were from their home, used in their home, while they were home!

What evidence?

For you to ask that question, it sounds like you think we just FEEL like they are guilty, and you FEEL they aren't... We shouldn't have to link all the evidence here for you, but you can start at A Candy Rose and see/read for yourself.