Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[midwest mama]

yes she was, but I wonder if she was molested because that was the goal purpose of the perp, or if she was molested because the perp knew she was dying, or thought she was already dead, or was planning to kill her. I don't know for sure, but since she was molested at about the same time as the strangulation, it looks like, IMO, that murder was the goal purpose and the molestation was used to cover the reason for the murder. I doubt JB was even conscious by this point, (at least I sure hope not), so it seems like a lot was done really quickly, to get things over with? Or, like some people think, maybe molestation was the goal, but if so, what in the world happened during the 90 minute interval? Was JB being molested? Was there evidence that pointed to a long, drawn out molestation?

Because there was still quite a bit of pineapple remaining in the bowl when found, I think JB only ate a piece or two. If the pineapple left her stomach while she was still alive, and into the small intestine within just 2 hours, that means there would have been at least 30 minutes between her eating the pineapple and receiving the '"non-killing" head bash? Those 30 minutes or so could have been enough time for a molester to begin an assault on her which led to the bash if she became defensive. The bash would have interrupted any further plans the molester might have had for furthering the assault, thinking he would be able to make JB go along with it, as he had always been able to do in the past. There would have been another 90 minutes or so for the pineapple to make it into the small intestine, even though JB was unconscious, before the final strangulation and stick/handle jab attack would have taken place, as JB died.

I think the 90 minute interval during the head bash and the final strangulation/stick jab molestation was all used for movement of the body, collection of items used in the crime/staging - maybe even attempting to write the ransom note, and even trying to figure out what to do next, along with any attention that had to be given to Burke. Not saying Burke had anything to do with the bash, but he could have easily heard the commotion and come down to check it out. :moo:

 

[Afterimage]

I went back and looked at the photos for the bowl of pineapple that was on the table. It still has a lot of pineapple in it. I think this may indicate that the incident took place around this time. My theory is that Burke got himself a bowl of pineapple and a glass of tea, shortly after they got home from the Whites. JonBennet came along and ate some of his pineapple. He may have gotten pissed at this and then grabbed her by the top of her sweater and twisted it, telling her, "don't be eating MY pineapple". He was enraged at this and as she turned and ran from him, he grabbed the flashlight and bashed her in the head. PR heard the commotion and came quickly to find JB unconscious. She then woke up John, and he came down. At this point they were trying to revive JB or trying to determine what was wrong with her. I am sure that the last thing on Burke's mind at this point, would be eating anymore pineapple. Some time after this he was sent to bed and told to stay there.

I really think this is possible. There are so many possibilities in this case and without one of the two living people telling us what really happened, no one is going to ever guess the details of what really happened that night, and know for sure that they are right.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Thank you for the compliment on my moniker. It is in reference to the answer of a novena, in which roses are a sign from above.
In answer to all your questions aside from I don't know..... because they were demented.
If not a handyperson who worked in the home from time to time, then my next guess would be someone who was affiliated with the pageants. This act was extreme hatred and jealousy. I still think transient. Someone who works the lights or sets up props? Someone who can move from.town to town to avoid detection? Runs the music? A roadie? Makeup or hair artist? Did this child act badly at this pageants to anyone in particular? Did patsy get anyone fired because they bothered jonbenet?

JonBenet was murdered by someone in her family that was in that house that night. There is no one else. Everything that was found on or with JonBenet was from her own mother. Children are killed more often by family members than strangers. It happens all the time. It happened in this family.

 

[Flatlander]

JonBenet was murdered by someone in her family that was in that house that night. There is no one else. Everything that was found on or with JonBenet was from her own mother. Children are killed more often by family members than strangers. It happens all the time. It happened in this family.

All fiber evidence on JB was linked to PR except for JR shirt fibers found in JB crotch and possibly; BR hi tec shoe prints in the cellar. I wonder whose prints were found on BR swiss army knife?

 

[rosesfromangels]

All fiber evidence on JB was linked to PR except for JR shirt fibers found in JB crotch and possibly; BR hi tec shoe prints in the cellar. I wonder whose prints were found on BR swiss army knife?

Sorry for being so ignorant about this case. At the time it happened I was so horrified I didn't really follow it. Did the family take and pass polygraphs?

 

[cynic]

Sorry for being so ignorant about this case. At the time it happened I was so horrified I didn't really follow it. Did the family take and pass polygraphs?

Here is some info regarding the Ramseys and the lie detector test debacle.
The BPD wanted an FBI examiner to conduct the tests, the Ramseys refused.
The primary reason is that the FBI would conduct a drug screen prior to conducting the examination.
The Ramseys began to shop around.
This from Gene Parker, a polygrapher, who was contacted:
Were you ever requested or did anyone ever come to you about doing the Ramsey polygraph on John and Patsy?
GP: Yes.
PB: Yep.
GP: Some short period of time ago I received a telephone call from some people that identified themselves as attorneys for John Ramsey.
PB: Did they mention names or could you mention their names?
GP: Yes, they mentioned names but I'm not at liberty to give those out, with due respect.
PB: All right. Fair enough.
GP: At which time I said "yes" since I had done the first one that...
PB: By the way Gene, did they know you had done the Hollis exam?
GP: Yes. Yes. In so much that I utilized an instrument perfected by the United States government and I had done the first Hollis polygraph which kind of started the whole thing that, "Yes, I would be more than happy to examine John and Patsy." And I quoted my fee. At which time I stated that because of the high profile of the case that it would require that a urine examination be done with a medical doctor and a registered nurse, for obvious reasons, presence. Uhhhm, the attorney said, who stated that he was an attorney, I had reason to believe that he was, stated, "Fine, they would get back to me." Some three hours later I received a telephone call from that same telephone number on my Caller-ID that I originally had got stating that they had declined my offer, they had found someone that would not require a urine examination, thank you very much.
Peter Boyles radio show - 06-08-2000

They decided initially on Jerry Toriello, and after failing to pass his tests, they were tested by Ed Gelb. Both did not screen for drugs.
I guess if you shop around, you’ll eventually find what you are looking for.
Gelb fit the bill, the polygrapher of choice for alien abductees – LOL.
Ed Gelb was called in after Travis Walton claimed he was abducted by space aliens and kept for five days aboard their spaceship before being returned to Earth. There were five friends with him that claim that they saw Travis as he was being beamed aboard an alien craft. Ed Gelb gave polygraphs to each of the five witnesses and gave them a clean bill of health. He stated that each of the tests demonstrated that each witness was being conclusively "truthful." Gelb, then declared that the statistical odds of five people "beating the machine" was about one in a million. Later, polygraph expert John J. McCarthy gave Travis Walton a polygraph examination and determined that Travis was deceptive with his responses.
This is not the only time that Ed Gelb has verified an alien abduction. He appeared on a TV show called "Lie Detector" in which he had the opportunity to test Betty Hill. Betty and Barney Hill are the famous couple that claim to have been abducted by space aliens. They say that they were given a physical examination by these aliens while aboard the space ship. After a polygraph examination by Gelb, Betty Hill was declared to have given truthful responses to Gelb's questions.

And Patsy failed once with this guy before she finally passed!!!!!

See also:
http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/polygraph/

Polygraph Operator "Dr." Edward I. Gelb Exposed as a Phony Ph.D.
Past President of the American Polygraph Association Obtained Degree from an Unaccredited Diploma Mill
http://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-036.shtml

 

[rosesfromangels]

O.K., as I said above, I'm way late to this, and not informed other than the basic facts. It appears many on this thread believe a Ramsey family member murdered this child and in the most heinous of manner. Why? It's somewhat easier to understand uncontrollable rage and an impulsive action that resulted in death. But the garrot, molestation, etc? So depraved. Was there any signs of that type of depravity in this family previous to this murder? I have vague memories of Patsy Ramsey's inverviews. She always seemed heavily medicated to me, but who could blame her really? I think she would have been easy for the general public to dislike. She was privelaged, and had an affected communication style if I remember correctly. She just seemed like she was living through her kid.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I went back and looked at the photos for the bowl of pineapple that was on the table. It still has a lot of pineapple in it. I think this may indicate that the incident took place around this time. My theory is that Burke got himself a bowl of pineapple and a glass of tea, shortly after they got home from the Whites. JonBennet came along and ate some of his pineapple. He may have gotten pissed at this and then grabbed her by the top of her sweater and twisted it, telling her, "don't be eating MY pineapple". He was enraged at this and as she turned and ran from him, he grabbed the flashlight and bashed her in the head. PR heard the commotion and came quickly to find JB unconscious. She then woke up John, and he came down. At this point they were trying to revive JB or trying to determine what was wrong with her. I am sure that the last thing on Burke's mind at this point, would be eating anymore pineapple. Some time after this he was sent to bed and told to stay there.

I really think this is possible. There are so many possibilities in this case and without one of the two living people telling us what really happened, no one is going to ever guess the details of what really happened that night, and know for sure that they are right.

There are a couple of problems with this theory.

The first is, Jon Benet loved her brother, and he loved her. There is no dispute on that, by anyone.

The second is, what parent would put the life of one child above another?

If Burke had been the one to strike JB, and PR came down and found her daughter convulsing on the floor, would she be most likely to call an ambulance and ask questions later?

Of course.

Only a psychopath would go about staging a cover up while the child is fitting and vomiting to death.

There were two psychopaths in that house, and neither of them were Burke.

 

[DeeDee249]

Sorry for being so ignorant about this case. At the time it happened I was so horrified I didn't really follow it. Did the family take and pass polygraphs?

The family never took polygraphs administered by the police, who asked repeatedly. They hired their own polygrapher and had to take the tests several times to pass. Some results were inconclusive.
It would be a good idea to do more research on the case, so that some very basic, well-known information isn't repeated. Try here:http://www.acandyrose.com and scroll down to the JonBenet archives, then scroll down to see all the important links- the autopsy report, photos, crime scene photos and interviews with the parents.
I would also recommend some books- Steve Thomas or James Kolar's books give a lot of information, and Kolar's book is the most recent one. Lawrence Schiller's book, Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" is a good one too.

 

[DeeDee249]

O.K., as I said above, I'm way late to this, and not informed other than the basic facts. It appears many on this thread believe a Ramsey family member murdered this child and in the most heinous of manner. Why? It's somewhat easier to understand uncontrollable rage and an impulsive action that resulted in death. But the garrot, molestation, etc? So depraved. Was there any signs of that type of depravity in this family previous to this murder? I have vague memories of Patsy Ramsey's inverviews. She always seemed heavily medicated to me, but who could blame her really? I think she would have been easy for the general public to dislike. She was privelaged, and had an affected communication style if I remember correctly. She just seemed like she was living through her kid.

You really need to read up on this case more. NO one suggests this was a premeditated murder. If you knew more, you'd understand why many feel the parents are involved. Direct fiber evidence both on the body, clothing and at the crime scene prove the parents were there, and handled her body. Some of the items where fibers were found belong ONLY to the crime, such as the tape and garrote cord. The parents had NO way to touch these things unless they put them on her.
Most people (not all) feel this was an unintended death caused by a blow to the head, resulting in her instant collapse and likely coma. After that, depending on a particular theory, the staging that follows is most likely done to protect a family member, and hide the sexual abuse that was DEFINITELY noted by the coroner. That was not hearesay, nor is it opinion. That was fact.
There is absolutely NO evidence linking anyone else to the crime. It is impossible for anyone to commit an intimate act like sexual abuse and strangulation without leaving a single hair or fiber behind.
The skin cells (known as Touch DNA) were found ONLY on her clothing and nowhere else, and as such must be viewed with skepticism. The parents went to a party that day. They shook a lot of hands, touched a lot of doorknobs. Skin cells are easily transferrable. That DNA would be all over her body and the crime scene if it belonged to someone who assaulted and killed her.
Please read one of the books I suggested. They are available in paperback and can be found on Amazon or Barbes& Nobel online.

 

[Katzenmoyer]

DocG: I've read a lot of your posts here and other places and find a lot of your points convincing, especially JR and the ransom note. However, I have a few follow-up questions or points I'd appreciate you addressing.

1) I "think" your stance is that BR did not have the strength to cause JBR's skull fracture, regardless of the weapon. If so, can you elaborate more on why you don't think he was?

2) I think you said somewhere that father-daughter molestation is more common than most people realize (paraphrasing). I agree, but wouldn't you also agree that the same is true between two siblings where the older one is male and the younger a female?

3) Thanks to you, I'm on-board with JR doing the staging and cover-up without PR. I also believe your JR did it all without BR or PR reasoning is logical, but I'm still struggling with why it's also not logical that BR hit her and JR covered for BR.

On that note, what do you think of JR covering for BR "primarily" so that BR wouldn't live the rest of his life being the older brother who caused his little sister to be brain-damaged? It seems like JR would've made that assessment by feeling her caved-in skull at a minimum.

4) Why do you think JR didn't ask for a million dollars in the ransom note versus his bonus amount of $118k? The latter amount makes the note even more suspicious, no?

5) Why were JBR's wrists tied above her head instead of behind her back for the staging? The above-the-head doesn't make sense to me, but I also haven't seen pics of other people tied-up against their will.

6) Why do you think JR made the ransom note so long? I can't think of a benefit beyond maybe him trying to make it look like PR wrote it. It seems like he'd be savvy enough to keep it short and sweet, especially since he obviously thought about the note somewhat given the evidence of at least one practice note.

7) Do you know if the police have potential murder weapons in evidence, i.e. the baseball bat(s), golf clubs, etc.? Prints on anything, including the garotte? I know the flashlight disappeared and PR's sister grabbed a bunch of evidence, including golf clubs, before the police per Thomas's book.

Finally, I get the sense that you've eliminated BR or are close to it, but I'm obviously still holding on to a BDI-JR covered. However, I have at least equal belief in your JDI theory.

Thanks for all you've contributed to this case so far.

 

[Chrishope]

O.K., as I said above, I'm way late to this, and not informed other than the basic facts. It appears many on this thread believe a Ramsey family member murdered this child and in the most heinous of manner. Why? It's somewhat easier to understand uncontrollable rage and an impulsive action that resulted in death. But the garrot, molestation, etc? So depraved. Was there any signs of that type of depravity in this family previous to this murder? I have vague memories of Patsy Ramsey's inverviews. She always seemed heavily medicated to me, but who could blame her really? I think she would have been easy for the general public to dislike. She was privelaged, and had an affected communication style if I remember correctly. She just seemed like she was living through her kid.

Yes, most people here are RDI (Ramsey Did It) with subcategories of JDI/PDI/BDI or any combination. Few here believe an intruder did it (IDI)

IDI has more going for it than most here will admit. As you point out, there were no prior signs of depravity. (The autopsy did reveal prior sexual abuse consistent with digital penetration, so even though there were no signs of this, it must be acknowledged as having happened)

The garrotting seems extreme and it's understandable that many wonder how a parent could do this.

There were unsourced white and brown fibers at the crime scene.

The crime scene was badly managed, and badly contaminated. So those who claim the intruder left no trace of himself may simply be wrong.

Most RDIs think the touch DNA didn't have to belong to the killer. And they are right, it didn't have to. Most think that the existence of 6 examples of artifact Touch DNA, something Kolar reveals in his book, make the TDNA even less likely to be from an intruder. They take the stance that all the TDNA must be intruder dna, or none of it is. IMO this is logically wrong. While it's certainly true that none of the TDNA has to belong to an intruder, it's not true that it has to be all or nothing. One artifact TDNA sample could be from the intruder, while the others are not. For a jury, there are now six pieces of evidence for an intruder, not just one.

So, why am I, and most others here RDI if the intruder theory is that strong?

1. I do not find it plausible that an intruder would write what is apparently a ransom note, then leave the body behind.



2. Nor do I find it plausible that a sexual killer would leave a note of any kind.



3. The crime morphs from kidnapping to sex killing. This seems unlikely to me; even if the kidnapper were a pedophile he could wait and get his jollies back at the hideout.



4. The crime scene looks neither like a kidnapping, nor a sex killing. As soon as the body is found we know there was never a kidnapping (except in a technical sense in which Cynic has shown JR might be charged with felony murder) the body is there, so obviously, the kidnappers didn't take her. There is no sign of a sex murder until the body is unwrapped on the autopsy table. If it were an intruder, the crime would look either like a kidnapping, or a sex murder. It doesn't even look like a combination of the two. It looks like she was murdered in her home and her body hidden in the most remote room in the house.



5. A kidnapper abandoning his plan would have to have a reason for abandoning the plan. Since he'd already got JB out of her bed, down to the first floor, and down to the basement, why not just complete the kidnapping? And why go down the basement? And if he did abandon the kidnap plan, why wrap the body in a blanket and hide it? He'd just get out of the house at that point, leaving the body on the floor. And how to account for sexual abuse if it's a kidnapping?



6. If it was a sex killer, why the RN? And why does he re-dress JB, then wrap her in a blanky, then hide her in the WC? He'd just leave her where she lay, and leave the house.



7. The basement window was not a point of entry that night. There was a grate over the window well (why would the intruder stop and put it back after making his exit?) there was a spider web attached to the grate, so obviously it was never removed, and the dirt on the window sill was not disturbed enough to indicate someone slid his butt or belly across it, as would be required to get in.



8. I'm confident JR lied about breaking the window earlier in July or August. It doesn't ring true, and if there really were an intruder, he'd wouldn't have had to make up this story.



9. The amount of ransom asked for is too small to be a real kidnapping. It looks to me more like the amount JR can lay his hands on very quickly, and is willing to kiss goodbye than the amount a kidnapper would ask for.



10. An intruder scenario does not explain the evidence of chronic sexual abuse, consistent with digital penetration; not unless the intruder had visited several times, or had previous access to JBR.


11. The work Whaleshark has done, magnifying the handwriting of the RN, shows two things - One, the original hand was disguised by the addition of lines, squiggles, and in some cases writing over the letters again. Two, much of the original hand appears to be JR's. Whaleshark also believes some writing looks like PRs. So, if it were an intruder, how in the world does he manage to mimic JR's writing, then mimic PR's as he disguises JR's?


In the end, the intruder theory isn't plausible, despite having a lot going for it on a superficial level.

Sorry, didn't have time to edit. I could have combined a couple of those, but you get the idea.

 

[txsvicki]

The only way I can see BR hitting Jonbenet with one blow and no marks on her body is if she were down on the floor already and playing with a toy or doing something since there are no marks to show her falling, struggling to get away, or rebounding into furniture or floor after being hit. Imo, there could be some premeditation if whoever did it had to get the object to hit her with and if he/she waited until she was in a good position to be able to hit the head with the one blow.

 

[midwest mama]

The only way I can see BR hitting Jonbenet with one blow and no marks on her body is if she were down on the floor already and playing with a toy or doing something since there are no marks to show her falling, struggling to get away, or rebounding into furniture or floor after being hit. Imo, there could be some premeditation if whoever did it had to get the object to hit her with and if he/she waited until she was in a good position to be able to hit the head with the one blow.

There was a comment on an old thread also that JB might have been asleep in her bed when the blow was struck, and therefore her head was cushioned enough to prevent those same sort of marks you mention - especially some on the opposite side of the head, where she might have slammed against something if hit hard enough. If that was the case, again it's premeditation. This would also be the only blessing for JB to come out of this crime - she would not have had any notion of the horror that was to come.

 

[midwest mama]

DocG and Chrishope -

Very thoughtful, relevant and rational answers and commentary in your last posts. Applause.

Have either of you given consideration to premeditation? Anyone else have thoughts on this? Is felony murder chargeable in "degrees"? Sorry, not a 'legal eagle'.

 

[UKGuy]

DocG: I've read a lot of your posts here and other places and find a lot of your points convincing, especially JR and the ransom note. However, I have a few follow-up questions or points I'd appreciate you addressing.

1) I "think" your stance is that BR did not have the strength to cause JBR's skull fracture, regardless of the weapon. If so, can you elaborate more on why you don't think he was?

2) I think you said somewhere that father-daughter molestation is more common than most people realize (paraphrasing). I agree, but wouldn't you also agree that the same is true between two siblings where the older one is male and the younger a female?

3) Thanks to you, I'm on-board with JR doing the staging and cover-up without PR. I also believe your JR did it all without BR or PR reasoning is logical, but I'm still struggling with why it's also not logical that BR hit her and JR covered for BR.

On that note, what do you think of JR covering for BR "primarily" so that BR wouldn't live the rest of his life being the older brother who caused his little sister to be brain-damaged? It seems like JR would've made that assessment by feeling her caved-in skull at a minimum.

4) Why do you think JR didn't ask for a million dollars in the ransom note versus his bonus amount of $118k? The latter amount makes the note even more suspicious, no?

5) Why were JBR's wrists tied above her head instead of behind her back for the staging? The above-the-head doesn't make sense to me, but I also haven't seen pics of other people tied-up against their will.

6) Why do you think JR made the ransom note so long? I can't think of a benefit beyond maybe him trying to make it look like PR wrote it. It seems like he'd be savvy enough to keep it short and sweet, especially since he obviously thought about the note somewhat given the evidence of at least one practice note.

7) Do you know if the police have potential murder weapons in evidence, i.e. the baseball bat(s), golf clubs, etc.? Prints on anything, including the garotte? I know the flashlight disappeared and PR's sister grabbed a bunch of evidence, including golf clubs, before the police per Thomas's book.

Finally, I get the sense that you've eliminated BR or are close to it, but I'm obviously still holding on to a BDI-JR covered. However, I have at least equal belief in your JDI theory.

Thanks for all you've contributed to this case so far.

Katzenmoyer,
Any one of the RDI theories is possible, i.e. JDI, BDI, PDI, and RDI itself. Some are more consistent than others e.g. BDI. Since JDI and PDI conflict at specific points of evidence.

1) There is nothing to prevent Burke from whacking JonBenet on the head, say with a golf-club, she may have been running at him, increasing the momentum of the impact?

2) The only available statistics are for those known. The unknown is always likely to be larger than the known.

3) All three Ramsey's colluded in the staging of JonBenet's death. There is both forensic and interview remarks to back this up. John Ramsey did not work alone, that theory, alike passage to heaven, requires faith in a particular future, that only the lone JDI theory mandates. JR would not be covering for BR, if its BDI it would be a legal requirement, and everyone involved would be on board to hide the truth.

4) The answer depends on who wrote the note. Particularly if you like docg's theory since if John wrote the note then to find $118k, he would not need to leave his house, all he need do, is phone a friend who will bring the cash to the house. A million dollars might need that planned visit to the bank.

5) Her hands were not really tied. It was simply looped restraints that would have fallen off, if shaken. In other words, quite likely last minute staging.

6) The RN was so long, so it could communicate the R's bogus scenario to the police and any potential jury.

7) The flashlight was taken into evidence. Since it was wiped clean, both outside and the batteries, its likely it was used, suggesting the batteries were changed or it is the weapon used to whack JonBenet. Also it might have been left out and wiped deliberately as fake forensic evidence?

No Ramsey has ever been eliminated. The current available evidence implicates all three Ramsey's.



.

 

[cynic]

Have either of you given consideration to premeditation? Anyone else have thoughts on this? Is felony murder chargeable in "degrees"? Sorry, not a 'legal eagle'.

It is not chargeable in "degees," it doesn't need to be.
Any homicide that occurs during a felony or attempt to commit a felony is murder. It doesn’t matter whether the killing is committed with deliberation and malice aforethought/premeditation, intentionally, or negligently

 

[Chrishope]

DocG and Chrishope -

Very thoughtful, relevant and rational answers and commentary in your last posts. Applause.

Have either of you given consideration to premeditation? Anyone else have thoughts on this? Is felony murder chargeable in "degrees"? Sorry, not a 'legal eagle'.

I've thought JBs death may have been premeditated. Unfortunately we will probably never know. An accidental blow to the head doesn't really make much sense where an adult is involved, and for several reasons, I don't believe it was Burke. I've wondered if she fell on something rather than being hit?

The garrotte is difficult to see as a response to an accident, either an accident that happened when JR or PR did something with/to her, or in a BDI theory.

What do you think?

 

[Chewy]

The depraved nature of the staging points to an Intruder. Think about it, if someone hit JB and the parents found out, they could have easily staged something else, what parent is going to cover it up with such a violation of their child's dead body?

A mother's instinct would be to preserve her dignity. A blow to the head that killed her could have been set up as a fall in the bathtub. JB wet the bed, PR could have said she didn't want to get in trouble and tried to clean herself up and fell in the tub and cracked her head and died.

There's no reason for all this. It's someone who knew them and hated them.

 

[Chrishope]

The depraved nature of the staging points to an Intruder. Think about it, if someone hit JB and the parents found out, they could have easily staged something else, what parent is going to cover it up with such a violation of their child's dead body?

A mother's instinct would be to preserve her dignity. A blow to the head that killed her could have been set up as a fall in the bathtub. JB wet the bed, PR could have said she didn't want to get in trouble and tried to clean herself up and fell in the tub and cracked her head and died.

There's no reason for all this. It's someone who knew them and hated them.

It wasn't an intruder.

Depraved is depraved. Why should an intruder be more likely to be depraved than a parent?