Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[DeeDee249]

One of her comments confuses me. She states that she and JR had a "nonverbal exchange" but them proceeds to repeat dialogue between them, with JR ASKING if JB was dead and Arndt SAYING she was. Spoken words are VERBAL exchanges, however she may have been referring to an exchange of looks, glances, etc.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Here is some info posted previously to affirm the paper bag fibers they found that came from JB's BED - it came from the Carnes ruling:

“Specifically, a rope was found
inside a brown paper sack in the guest bedroom on the second floor;
defendants have indicated that neither of these items belonged to them
.(SMF 181; PSMF 181.) Regardless of its ownership, there is no explanation
why a bag containing a rope would be in the guest bedroom. Further, small
pieces of the material on this brown sack were found in the vacuuming of
JonBenet's bed and in the body bag that was used to transport her body
(SMF 181; PSMF 181)"

An interesting fact I saw recently said Patsy had some surgery on Dec 26, 1993, and it was then that it was confirmed she was free of the first bout of ovarian cancer. That was the cure Patsy attributed to her 'faith healing'. Add the Psalm 118 connection about the 'sacrifice' and binding with cords - is it possible that Patsy just bonkered out under all the pressure from the holidays and JB became her sacrificial offering for her miraculous cure 3 years earlier?

And, if Patsy had been becoming aware of molestation of JB from within the family, and she was also suffering from remorse about her own rumored childhood molestation, in a crazed state she somehow rationalized she would save JB from all the mental torture she would face throughout her life, and make the sacrifice not only to please the Lord, but to save JB?? SBTC = Saved by the Cross or She Belongs to Christ??

Maybe Patsy did deal the flashlight blow - but JR had to step in to complete the horrible deed because Patsy just couldn't. Patsy might have told JR she knew about the 'family incest' and would turn them all in unless he helped her with the finishing and staging. :moo:

Pasty had a face lift that summer. They also had to change the silicon breast implants because one had ruptured. Pasty was under a lot of stress already and fighting forty would be hard for one so vain.

Linda Pugh telling about Pasty's wine drinking makes you wonder how many glasses she had at the Whites, or how many when they got home.

An acceptable sacrifice was to be pure and unblemished. "Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be white as snow;though they are red like crimson,they shall become like wool.
Being wrapped in the white blanket "covers all sins"? Could her hands being "tied" was keep to them in a praying position? Someone drew a red heart on her palm. From my heart to yours, is what Pasty said it meant. JonBenet was wearing her cross when found. James Kolars has a lot of red flags in his book about Pasty and her faith.


John had been in the Navy and was stationed at Subic Bay Training Center in the Philippines. SBTC also. A place where a garotte is common, but I don't think John is that stupid.

His plan would of been a better thought out one. Not one done and redone. His ransom note wouldof been just that..a ransom note. Short and to the point.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The scene showed signs of two perps in my opinion.

One organised, one disorganised.

We know the communication between J and P was fairly nonexistent at the best of times, and I would say the staging was just another example of that.

It took them hours to do.

One went this way, the other went that way.

I have no doubt J told P to write a ransom note, just as I have no doubt he nearly died when he saw how long it was and the inclusion of the $118,000.

By then, they had probably already called the police and it was too late for him to change what she'd done...he just had to bluff it out and hope for the best.

 

[UKGuy]

The scene showed signs of two perps in my opinion.

One organised, one disorganised.

We know the communication between J and P was fairly nonexistent at the best of times, and I would say the staging was just another example of that.

It took them hours to do.

One went this way, the other went that way.

I have no doubt J told P to write a ransom note, just as I have no doubt he nearly died when he saw how long it was and the inclusion of the $118,000.

By then, they had probably already called the police and it was too late for him to change what she'd done...he just had to bluff it out and hope for the best.

SapphireSteel,
For me the ransom note is like the wine-cellar, its part of the staging. I doubt its contents will tell us much about what happened, but it might reveal what the R's hoped might happen?

So did the R's have a plan? Was there a strategy with accompanying tactics, or was it all rushed on a wing and a prayer?

You have suggested two people one of which is disorganized and the other organized. Now if the R's had a plan which one of these two types thought it up, outlined it, refined it, then mandated its execution?

The $118,000 is in the ransom note for a particular reason, everyone has thought why not a million the R's were millionares after all?

The $118,000 relates to Access Graphics, so were the R's intending to link someone there to JonBenet's kidnapping.

Then there is the American Girl Doll ordered by JonBenet and to be delivered to her as the recipient.

Also we have a Barbie Doll lying next to JonBenet down in the wine-cellar, along with a bloodstained Barbie-Nightgown.

So dolls and John's bonus patently play some part in the staging, just what could it be, or was the American Girl Doll simply fake, something sent by an outsider?

If the R's required an American Girls Doll replacement then having it delivered to JonBenet at Access Graphics, days after her death, is surely not the way to do it?

Not unless it can be demonstrated that American Girls Doll was back ordered, with the order details only reaching the computers, once it made its way throught the system. This information is missing from the original report, i.e. mail or phone order, and on which date?

Could be someone was inserting themselves into the case, only Tricia can really resolve this one.

Anyway on the subject of the $118,000. I reckon John told Patsy to add that sum in, since as a diversionary tactic, they had some plan to link Access Graphics with JonBenet's abduction.



.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

From Linda Ardnt -

She then saw Ramsey carrying his daughter’s body up the stairs from the basement.

“I saw black with thousands of lights and everything that I had noted that morning that stuck out instantly made sense,” Arndt says. “JonBenét was clearly dead and had been dead for a while.

“I leaned down to her face and John leaned down opposite me and his face was just inches from mine. We had a nonverbal exchange that I will never forget and he asked if she was dead and I said yes, she’s dead, and I told him to go back to the room and to dial 911.

“As we looked at each other and I remember - I wore a shoulder holster - tucking my gun right next to me and consciously counting out the 18 bullets.”

When asked why, Arndt said, “Cause I didn’t know if we’d all be alive when people showed up. I knew what happened, I knew what happened to her.”

Vargas: Do you think your fear was well founded?

Arndt: You bet I do. There’s no doubt in my mind.

Vargas: To this day?

Arndt: Never wavered.

Ardnt has been thoroughly discredited and lost her career over this case, however I cannot ignore three facts -

1. she was on the scene. She saw and FELT the reactions of the Ramseys

2. She was a very experienced investigator with sexual assault crimes and states she believes John molested JB and Patsy covered it up.

3. She had absolutely no reason to embellish/invent this. It was in her interests to stick to the IDI theory in public so as to avoid criticism of her handling of the scene.

http://www.webbsleuths.org/dcforum/DCForumID70/31.html

Thanks for this info SapphireSteel. I am a firm believer that John was molesting JonBenet, and that he was responsible for her death. I'm still on the fence with Patsy's involvement, and when she became part of the cover up, but I've never quite believed that she killed JonBenet over a bed wetting incident despite what the housekeeper claimed.

I've been reading at DocG's site, and he presents a pretty strong case against John Ramsey. I'm just not sure I can buy that Patsy was totally innocent in the whole thing, although he makes a good point that the 911 call pretty well sabotaged the whole kidnapping scenerio as a cover up.

 

[Ithink]

Knowing all I know today: Accident by Burke, cover-up by John and Patsy. John murdered her by taking her last breath away.

I think –

With certainty:
The initial head injury was an accident.
Patsy and/or John witnessed the accident (because it took approximately 90 minutes from the accident to her death ... I think they used every minute to assess/plan/kill.)
John and Patsy were responsible for the cover-up. (This is key -- there is NO WAY a parent would allow a sibling to sleep in the morning without questioning him. Impossible. They both knew. Sorry docG. I have a 9 and 6 year old. My 9 year old is the first person I ask “what happened?” when my 6 year old’s mood is slightly off, let alone kidnapped.)
John was responsible for taking her last breath away.
John staged her body in the cellar.
Patsy penned the ransom note. John and Patsy were the authors.
Jonbenet was molested prior to her murder and cover-up. Family secret.
Burke was not responsible for the cover-up.
John was not responsible for the prior molestation. There is no evidence or behaviour to suggest he was responsible.
Patsy’s 911 call sounds like she’s out of breath from doing jumping jacks (i.e.). And listen to how she says, “we have a kidnapping” with such cleverness.

Leaning towards:
Burke was responsible for the accident (golf club). (Why else would they want him asleep and ushered out ASAP from the police? Any coincidence that FW was named by John as a suspect and the White’s had allowed Burke to be questioned by the police Dec 26th?)
Burke was responsible for the prior molestation. (I have not read Kolar's book yet). Evidence suggests molestation and not rape -- Burke is a strong candidate based on behavioral evidence.
Patsy and John were (recently) aware that Jonbenet was being molested.

My holes:
Where (what room) the accident occurred.
How does the prior molestation fit into the theory?
How do you take Burke out of the picture after the accident occurs? -- Your sister has been fatally wounded and we're hysterical, please go to bed now?

I've modified my theory over the past couple years. (RDI nonetheless).

Did the Ramsey's have all their bags packed for their trip? Some bags? Nothing at all? I can't find this piece of evidence and don't recall. This would be a key point in my theory.

Still pondering, but here's where I'm at now.
In summary, they arrived home Dec 25th and everyone was awake. They started gathering/packing for the trip before getting the kids to bed. Perhaps golf clubs included for their warm weather part of the trip. Patsy served Jonbenet pineapple as a snack. It's late, kids are tired but all wound up from the day and excitement of travel. Burke is fooling around with the golf clubs and the accident occurs. Packing ceases of course. Jonbenet appears dead, permanently brain damaged at best. Not a life for their beauty queen. Knowing the family "secret" John and Patsy decide on the cover-up to protect Burke and keep their family secret (whether it was Burke or not, Jonbenet had been molested by someone, and they likely knew who it was). Patsy helps gather supplies. John performs the staging and strangulation in the basement (Patsy may have been there, too - at least part of the time). Patsy pens the ransom note, but they both author it. They agree friends will be called to help make the case in front of police that they are not the type of people who would be responsible for this. The Ramseys expected nothing more than outpouring of sympathy and a mysterious murder. In the end, they achieved little of either.

Burke being involved explains their behaviour the morning of Dec 26 and until Patsy's death and John to this day. John will take it to his death also, unless he confesses to the crime in its entirety to exonerate Burke from living under the cloud of suspicion for the rest of his life. Therefore, if John ever confesses, I'm still not convinced.

 

[UKGuy]

Knowing all I know today: Accident by Burke, cover-up by John and Patsy. John murdered her by taking her last breath away.

I think –

With certainty:
The initial head injury was an accident.
Patsy and/or John witnessed the accident (because it took approximately 90 minutes from the accident to her death ... I think they used every minute to assess/plan/kill.)
John and Patsy were responsible for the cover-up. (This is key -- there is NO WAY a parent would allow a sibling to sleep in the morning without questioning him. Impossible. They both knew. Sorry docG. I have a 9 and 6 year old. My 9 year old is the first person I ask “what happened?” when my 6 year old’s mood is slightly off, let alone kidnapped.)
John was responsible for taking her last breath away.
John staged her body in the cellar.
Patsy penned the ransom note. John and Patsy were the authors.
Jonbenet was molested prior to her murder and cover-up. Family secret.
Burke was not responsible for the cover-up.
John was not responsible for the prior molestation. There is no evidence or behaviour to suggest he was responsible.
Patsy’s 911 call sounds like she’s out of breath from doing jumping jacks (i.e.). And listen to how she says, “we have a kidnapping” with such cleverness.

Leaning towards:
Burke was responsible for the accident (golf club). (Why else would they want him asleep and ushered out ASAP from the police? Any coincidence that FW was named by John as a suspect and the White’s had allowed Burke to be questioned by the police Dec 26th?)
Burke was responsible for the prior molestation. (I have not read Kolar's book yet). Evidence suggests molestation and not rape -- Burke is a strong candidate based on behavioral evidence.
Patsy and John were (recently) aware that Jonbenet was being molested.

My holes:
Where (what room) the accident occurred.
How does the prior molestation fit into the theory?
How do you take Burke out of the picture after the accident occurs? -- Your sister has been fatally wounded and we're hysterical, please go to bed now?

I've modified my theory over the past couple years. (RDI nonetheless).

Did the Ramsey's have all their bags packed for their trip? Some bags? Nothing at all? I can't find this piece of evidence and don't recall. This would be a key point in my theory.

Still pondering, but here's where I'm at now.
In summary, they arrived home Dec 25th and everyone was awake. They started gathering/packing for the trip before getting the kids to bed. Perhaps golf clubs included for their warm weather part of the trip. Patsy served Jonbenet pineapple as a snack. It's late, kids are tired but all wound up from the day and excitement of travel. Burke is fooling around with the golf clubs and the accident occurs. Packing ceases of course. Jonbenet appears dead, permanently brain damaged at best. Not a life for their beauty queen. Knowing the family "secret" John and Patsy decide on the cover-up to protect Burke and keep their family secret (whether it was Burke or not, Jonbenet had been molested by someone, and they likely knew who it was). Patsy helps gather supplies. John performs the staging and strangulation in the basement (Patsy may have been there, too - at least part of the time). Patsy pens the ransom note, but they both author it. They agree friends will be called to help make the case in front of police that they are not the type of people who would be responsible for this. The Ramseys expected nothing more than outpouring of sympathy and a mysterious murder. In the end, they achieved little of either.

Burke being involved explains their behaviour the morning of Dec 26 and until Patsy's death and John to this day. John will take it to his death also, unless he confesses to the crime in its entirety to exonerate Burke from living under the cloud of suspicion for the rest of his life. Therefore, if John ever confesses, I'm still not convinced.

Ithink,
Good point. A death-bed confession for Burke's benefit, nice. That would make headlines world-wide.

So you think its BDI as an accident, well thats quite likely , otherwise it has to be a rage attack!


.

 

[DeeDee249]

I totally agree with BOTH parents having a part in the staging- NO BR. I agree that both parents authored the note with Patsy physically writing it with her left hand- she was said to be ambidextrous. When people can write with either hand, the handwriting is NOT identical. The note comes so close to Patsy's writing (those "Q"s did it for me) as to leave no doubt in my mind who wrote it.

However, Patsy's jacket fibers on the sticky side of the tape indicate she handled it, whether she put it over JB's lips or not. Her fibers entwined in the knot of the ligature place her there, too. JR's fibers on the INSIDE of her panties place him there, too. Patsy's forearm hair on the blanket make it likely she was the one who pulled it out of the dryer and/or placed it on the floor.
They each did something...

 

[DeeDee249]

An antidepressant was found in the R medicine cabinet. Alcohol should never be taken by someone on those drugs. Even a small amount of alcohol (a glass or two of wine, for example) can interact negatively with those drugs, which amplify the intoxicating effects of alcohol. Antidepressants can also have unpredictable side effects like violent behavior, even suicidal thoughts. Anyone ever listen to the side effects of Cymbalta in a TV ad? Or over-the-counter sleep aids like Lunesta? Or Chantix for smoking? Simply awful. The treatment is worse than the disease.

I think that Patsy likely had some wine at the White's party.

 

[DeeDee249]

Knowing all I know today: Accident by Burke, cover-up by John and Patsy. John murdered her by taking her last breath away.

I think –

With certainty:
The initial head injury was an accident.
Patsy and/or John witnessed the accident (because it took approximately 90 minutes from the accident to her death ... I think they used every minute to assess/plan/kill.)
John and Patsy were responsible for the cover-up. (This is key -- there is NO WAY a parent would allow a sibling to sleep in the morning without questioning him. Impossible. They both knew. Sorry docG. I have a 9 and 6 year old. My 9 year old is the first person I ask “what happened?” when my 6 year old’s mood is slightly off, let alone kidnapped.)
John was responsible for taking her last breath away.
John staged her body in the cellar.
Patsy penned the ransom note. John and Patsy were the authors.
Jonbenet was molested prior to her murder and cover-up. Family secret.
Burke was not responsible for the cover-up.
John was not responsible for the prior molestation. There is no evidence or behaviour to suggest he was responsible.
Patsy’s 911 call sounds like she’s out of breath from doing jumping jacks (i.e.). And listen to how she says, “we have a kidnapping” with such cleverness.

Leaning towards:
Burke was responsible for the accident (golf club). (Why else would they want him asleep and ushered out ASAP from the police? Any coincidence that FW was named by John as a suspect and the White’s had allowed Burke to be questioned by the police Dec 26th?)
Burke was responsible for the prior molestation. (I have not read Kolar's book yet). Evidence suggests molestation and not rape -- Burke is a strong candidate based on behavioral evidence.
Patsy and John were (recently) aware that Jonbenet was being molested.

My holes:
Where (what room) the accident occurred.
How does the prior molestation fit into the theory?
How do you take Burke out of the picture after the accident occurs? -- Your sister has been fatally wounded and we're hysterical, please go to bed now?

I've modified my theory over the past couple years. (RDI nonetheless).

Did the Ramsey's have all their bags packed for their trip? Some bags? Nothing at all? I can't find this piece of evidence and don't recall. This would be a key point in my theory.

Still pondering, but here's where I'm at now.
In summary, they arrived home Dec 25th and everyone was awake. They started gathering/packing for the trip before getting the kids to bed. Perhaps golf clubs included for their warm weather part of the trip. Patsy served Jonbenet pineapple as a snack. It's late, kids are tired but all wound up from the day and excitement of travel. Burke is fooling around with the golf clubs and the accident occurs. Packing ceases of course. Jonbenet appears dead, permanently brain damaged at best. Not a life for their beauty queen. Knowing the family "secret" John and Patsy decide on the cover-up to protect Burke and keep their family secret (whether it was Burke or not, Jonbenet had been molested by someone, and they likely knew who it was). Patsy helps gather supplies. John performs the staging and strangulation in the basement (Patsy may have been there, too - at least part of the time). Patsy pens the ransom note, but they both author it. They agree friends will be called to help make the case in front of police that they are not the type of people who would be responsible for this. The Ramseys expected nothing more than outpouring of sympathy and a mysterious murder. In the end, they achieved little of either.

Burke being involved explains their behaviour the morning of Dec 26 and until Patsy's death and John to this day. John will take it to his death also, unless he confesses to the crime in its entirety to exonerate Burke from living under the cloud of suspicion for the rest of his life. Therefore, if John ever confesses, I'm still not convinced.

I agree, substituting the flashlight for the golf club. The flashlight having been wiped inside and out puts it in the crime, whether it was the weapon or not, it was used that night. What makes me think it had to be the weapon was the wiping of the batteries. The Rs admit to owning it (at first they didn't). There is simply no reason to remove prints from a household item which every home has. It belonged to the house- of COURSE their prints should be there. An intruder wouldn't have left it behind in the first place, and certainly wouldn't have wiped it down just to leave it behind (not to mention would never take such a big, heavy flashlight anyway). The absence of the prints screams guilty more than anything else. I think the only reason it was wiped is because it was used to bash her.

 

[BOESP]

I spent some time this past week re-reading Internet information on JonBenet's death. Somehow, this link had escaped me until then:

http://someoneisgettingawaywithmurder.blogspot.com/2012/01/patsy-ramsey-killed-her-daughter-she.html

According to what I've read, the number 118 supposedly had significance in Patsy's spontaneous healing of ovarian cancer, which she claimed some time prior to JonBenet's death. Here's a link to that scripture:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+118&version=NKJV

And, my boring song of high pressure/low velocity trauma keeps telling me that for JonBenet's skull to have leading fractures in two directions from the impact point there had to be, relatively, a lot of pressure. I can't see a flashlight doing that unless someone simultaneously fell on top of her. If a baseball bat injury, maybe a short-line fracture in one direction, but not eight inches long running in two directions (I know ... I am a broken record )

For her little skull to split that length and width from the contact point, the force (pressure) behind the event had to be sustained longer than a high velocity/low pressure contact, such as a swung golf club or baseball bat would inflict. I now wonder if perhaps Burke fell on JonBenet during whatever happened. I used to think perhaps Patsy jerked her around, pushed her with her hand to hold her down or else slipped and fell on her during the event.

What bothers me more than the Ramseys possibly "covering" for Burke is the judicial system covering for John and Patsy. Why bring all the publicity into the fray if you wanted to keep something private. Why have a PR person set up filming of her memorial service in Boulder?

The Ramseys had PR people and media coordinators hired to give them good press. Would you do that if you were trying to keep things quiet?

I still don't have enough information to convince me to decide who did what except I feel as sure as reason can discern that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note and that Patsy knew what happened.

 

[Ithink]

I agree, substituting the flashlight for the golf club. The flashlight having been wiped inside and out puts it in the crime, whether it was the weapon or not, it was used that night. What makes me think it had to be the weapon was the wiping of the batteries. The Rs admit to owning it (at first they didn't). There is simply no reason to remove prints from a household item which every home has. It belonged to the house- of COURSE their prints should be there. An intruder wouldn't have left it behind in the first place, and certainly wouldn't have wiped it down just to leave it behind (not to mention would never take such a big, heavy flashlight anyway). The absence of the prints screams guilty more than anything else. I think the only reason it was wiped is because it was used to bash her.

I agree, it very well could've been the flashlight. I have another scenario where the kids put to bed after the pineapple snack. BR sneaks into JBR's bedroom attempted to molest her, she screamed, he reacted and wacked her with the flashlight. Explains the scream the neighbor heard. PR and JR find him (knowing he's molested her before), send him to bed immediately, then at that time assess the extent of her injury. BR doesn't even know what he did, just that he got in trouble. (But was he strong enough to inflict such a wound??)

And one more explanation for the flashlight, not as the weapon, but just as a staging tool. Instead of turning on the lights in the basement, they used the flashlight. I recall PR agreed the flashlight was kept in the butler's pantry drawer, and that's the unusual light (butler's pantry) the neighbor saw on that night. The flashlight was removed from the butler's pantry drawer, light left on, flashlight used during staging.

Either scenario, they would think to wipe it down and claim no ownership at first.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I spent some time this past week re-reading Internet information on JonBenet's death. Somehow, this link had escaped me until then:

http://someoneisgettingawaywithmurder.blogspot.com/2012/01/patsy-ramsey-killed-her-daughter-she.html

According to what I've read, the number 118 supposedly had significance in Patsy's spontaneous healing of ovarian cancer, which she claimed some time prior to JonBenet's death. Here's a link to that scripture:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+118&version=NKJV

And, my boring song of high pressure/low velocity trauma keeps telling me that for JonBenet's skull to have leading fractures in two directions from the impact point there had to be, relatively, a lot of pressure. I can't see a flashlight doing that unless someone simultaneously fell on top of her. If a baseball bat injury, maybe a short-line fracture in one direction, but not eight inches long running in two directions (I know ... I am a broken record )

For her little skull to split that length and width from the contact point, the force (pressure) behind the event had to be sustained longer than a high velocity/low pressure contact, such as a swung golf club or baseball bat would inflict. I now wonder if perhaps Burke fell on JonBenet during whatever happened. I used to think perhaps Patsy jerked her around, pushed her with her hand to hold her down or else slipped and fell on her during the event.

What bothers me more than the Ramseys possibly "covering" for Burke is the judicial system covering for John and Patsy. Why bring all the publicity into the fray if you wanted to keep something private. Why have a PR person set up filming of her memorial service in Boulder?

The Ramseys had PR people and media coordinators hired to give them good press. Would you do that if you were trying to keep things quiet?

I still don't have enough information to convince me to decide who did what except I feel as sure as reason can discern that Patsy Ramsey wrote the note and that Patsy knew what happened.

There was so much bad press out there, that they didn't really have a choice but to counter it with good press.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

ABC News’ Elizabeth Stuart (@elizabethstuart) and Lauren Effron (@leffron831) report:

The father of JonBenet Ramsey, the 6-year-old beauty pageant queen who
was found dead in 1996 and whose killing has never been solved, told “Nightline” he believes his daughter’s killer is still at large but that the trail has gone cold.

“He’s either alive, dead or in prison, and one of those three,” John Ramsey told ABC News’ Juju Chang.

Since longtime police detective Lou Smit, who first investigated and then supported the Ramseys, died in 2010, Ramsey thinks authorities are out of clues in solving her case.

“It’s pretty dead, I’m afraid,” Ramsey said.

It’s been 16 years since JonBenet was found dead in the basement of her family’s Boulder, Colo., home the day after Christmas. That morning, the Ramsey family found a horrifying ransom note, threatening to kill JonBenet if they didn’t pay $118,000. That was the exact amount Ramsey had recently received as a bonus, leading him to believe his daughter’s killing was an inside job on some level.

Ramsey, the well-to-do executive, was the one who made the shocking discovery of JonBenet’s body.

“When I found her it was a rush of relief,” he said. “And then of course within moments, I realized that she probably was dead. But she was back in my arms.”

For years, Boulder police suspected the Ramseys killed their daughter. In 2008, Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy cleared the Ramseys of any wrongdoing and issued a letter of apology them. JonBenet’s mother Patsy Ramsey died of ovarian cancer on June 24, 2006, without knowing her name had been cleared.

One of the only developments in the case, which eventually became a dead-end, was when suspect and school teacher John Mark Karr was arrested in Bangkok, Thailand, in August 2006. At the time, Karr told reporters that he was “with JonBenet when she died” but that “her death was an accident.”

“He was arrested, and we were, I guess, hopeful, but not — we were a little skeptical,” Ramsey recalled. “What I realized was that this is going to be difficult. He didn’t look like a killer. He looked like a nice guy. He was a teacher in an elementary school. I thought, ‘Boy, that’s not what I would have expected.’ I expected a monster.”

Karr was jailed briefly, but Boulder prosecutors soon abandoned their case against him when DNA tests failed to link Karr to DNA found in JonBenet’s underwear, disproving his claim.

In his newly released book, “The Other Side of Suffering,” John Ramsey talks about his incredible journey from grief to hope. He recounts how deeply his faith helped him navigate course from suffering to forgiveness.

“I don’t know for sure what happened, and I don’t want to know, really,” John Ramsey said.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...-unsolved-case-is-dead-killer-still-at-large/


JR's words do NOT sound live a grieving father IMO. I can't even believe some of the things he says - he was "relieved" when he found her body, and that she was "back in his arms"? And to go on to say he doesn't really want to know what happened? IMO, he KNOWS exactly what happened because he is the one who killed her. He sounds to me like a cold, calculating sociopath.

 

[BOESP]

There was so much bad press out there, that they didn't really have a choice but to counter it with good press.

I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but in my view ignoring the bad press would have let things die down. They seemed to enjoy being on television and being sanctimonious victims from what I saw.

 

[UKGuy]

I agree, it very well could've been the flashlight. I have another scenario where the kids put to bed after the pineapple snack. BR sneaks into JBR's bedroom attempted to molest her, she screamed, he reacted and wacked her with the flashlight. Explains the scream the neighbor heard. PR and JR find him (knowing he's molested her before), send him to bed immediately, then at that time assess the extent of her injury. BR doesn't even know what he did, just that he got in trouble. (But was he strong enough to inflict such a wound??)

And one more explanation for the flashlight, not as the weapon, but just as a staging tool. Instead of turning on the lights in the basement, they used the flashlight. I recall PR agreed the flashlight was kept in the butler's pantry drawer, and that's the unusual light (butler's pantry) the neighbor saw on that night. The flashlight was removed from the butler's pantry drawer, light left on, flashlight used during staging.

Either scenario, they would think to wipe it down and claim no ownership at first.

Ithink,
How would the parents know that Burke whacked JonBenet with the flashlight?

The flashlight was a Ramsey possession, their fingerprints might be expected on it.

Why not leave the flashlight in the wine-cellar rather than the kitchen?


If its BDI would he offer a truthful acount to his parents, e.g. I whacked her on the head real hard or She fell and hit her head as we argued?

If you assume IDI then the intruder will require a light source, nice, but what intruder camly wipes his light source clean, then deliberately leaves it in a location divorced from the crime-scene?

So switching lights on will be required IDI or RDI, anyway, who can see the light on in the wine-cellar?

So the probability is that DeeDee249 is correct the flashlight may have been used to whack JonBenet, leaving it with forensic traces, e.g. hair, fingerprints etc.

.

 

[Whaleshark]

.... I didn't finish reading the book yet....but isn't it Kolar who says in his book that Burke was telling the story of what happened to JonBenet to his friend over at Fleet's house that morning, and an investigator overheard it, and one of the things Burke said was that she was hit over the head with a hammer (and he's making motion with his hands of her being hit over the head), and the guy was taken aback about how they were talking about the event like it was nothing, etc... yadda yadda...

...and isn't a hammer one of the items that was taken in the long evidence list from the house?

No, I know the displaced piece of skull does not look like the impact from the round end of a hammer, but could be from the curved end... just like it would from a golf club.

I don't think she was hit with the flashlight... Like I said before, for one thing, the absence of fingerprints on something does not mean it was wiped down necessarily -- it can mean fingerprints were never transferred -- I linked to a forensic document about this before. Also, if fingerprints were in fact wiped off, that if they wanted the flashlight to be linked to the crime, to not look like theirs, and left it out on purpose, they would HAVE to wipe their prints off so their own prints wouldn't be on there to indicate it WAS theirs...but that's IF they were doing that in the first place...

 

[Ithink]

Ithink,
How would the parents know that Burke whacked JonBenet with the flashlight?

The parents would've also heard her scream in the molestation scenario.

The flashlight was a Ramsey possession, their fingerprints might be expected on it.

Why not leave the flashlight in the wine-cellar rather than the kitchen?

Good point about the fingerprints. That does support the theory of the flashlight as the head injury weapon.

As for leaving the flashlight in the wine-cellar, it would've been needed to guide their way back up the stairs in the dark. It was left in the kitchen where the RN was written.

If its BDI would he offer a truthful acount to his parents, e.g. I whacked her on the head real hard or She fell and hit her head as we argued?

If you assume IDI then the intruder will require a light source, nice, but what intruder camly wipes his light source clean, then deliberately leaves it in a location divorced from the crime-scene?

So switching lights on will be required IDI or RDI, anyway, who can see the light on in the wine-cellar?

So the probability is that DeeDee249 is correct the flashlight may have been used to whack JonBenet, leaving it with forensic traces, e.g. hair, fingerprints etc.

.

I don't think it was necessary for Burke to "fess up" because the parents knew immediately (either from witnessing it, being in the general household with kids fooling around, or from a scream due to a molestation attempt.)

No IDI assumed on my part. I'm definitely in the RDI camp.

I agree so far the most likely scenario is the flashlight as the head injury weapon.

 

[Whaleshark]

I still like golf club as a likely choice though....

Blow to Head With Child-Sized Golf Club Kills Boy, 7, in Michigan -
(This was done by accident, by one 7-year old boy to another 7-year old boy)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,418904,00.html

 

[DeeDee249]

I still like golf club as a likely choice though....

Blow to Head With Child-Sized Golf Club Kills Boy, 7, in Michigan -
(This was done by accident, by one 7-year old boy to another 7-year old boy)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,418904,00.html

Of course it could have been used. And it WOULD kill. But in that case there was no alternative, and in this case there was a wiped-down heavy flashlight right there. I think a golf club might not have been blunt enough to cause that "blunt force trauma". The narrower, metal head of a club would have likely split the scalp too, causing external bleeding and a wound.
But either weapon has its possibilities.