Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[Arnie M]

The red fibers and white cord could point to a Santa costume

The white cord in my post above and the sash style on the costume below are the right length for what was at the scene of the crime

If I was a detective on scene... I would have tested the cord , the fragments of cord found on JB's bed , and the red fibers to compare to Santa suits of the 1990's era.

The cord was cut in half in the bedroom (remnant fibers) and the two remaining lengths reconcile very well with the garrote and the bound wrists

Does anyone recall if the red fibers on the tape was positively determined to be from PR clothing ... or was it just similar ? Both Santa Suit and PR clothing are the typical Christmas red fabrics.

Below is the example of a waist-sash-type white Santa cord , plus another example of the bag closure type

 

[Arnie M]

Another side note (could be important)

One of the professional sexual abuse profilers (FBI I think) (was interviewed on Trish Radio) said explicitely that a father cannot sexually abuse his own daughter (he said it is impossible)

He then went on to say that when a father does such a thing he (in his mind) detaches himself (from the father-daughter mindset) and ... "becomes someone else" (in his mind)

I have explained it poorly , if I find the link I will post it.

His point was that he can identify a (father) abuser simply by interviewing him .... when answering questions when the wife (mother) was present he will always use the words "my daughter"

But when the mother was away and he was abusing ... he would describe her as "the girl"

A father (JR) could recuse himself by dressing as Santa .... thus mentally (to him) he is not abusing "his daughter" ... it is "Santa doing it"

It is a twisted mindset that goes into deep psychiatry ... I will look for the radio interview. It is explained much better than I have.

Thank you
AM

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Hmm.. I wonder about that. In 100% of the cases??

I don't know how reliable this is. I would think that depends on the person and offender. That is something I will have to do some more research on. What profiler was this? I hope it was not the guy that was linked to earlier.

I just do not see the point in dressing as SC if you are in your own home and have a plan to what? That night he planned to kill her?

I don't see anything that points to JR molesting JBR.

 

[Venom]

So someone had an accident. Is that that I am getting here? because that is all I get from that. An accident. Can I ask where the report is from? Wait, You got this from Kolar's book?? Some one who wants people to think he has all the answers to the case and it lies at BR's feet? Sorry. Not valid to me. I need an independent report please.

So someone had an accident on a box of chocolate?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So someone had an accident on a box of chocolate?

This is from Kolar's book so I don't take this as anything more than his say so, But yes. Someone could have had an accident and then touched the box. We have no idea what smeared means if it is at all true.

Kids are messy when they have accidents.

ETA: And if this is true, Did they take a sample? DNA test it?

 

[DeeDee249]

JB was alive when she was bashed on the head. Dead brains don't swell and there was mild swelling of the brain noted in the autopsy.

The red acrylic fibers were matched to Patsy's fleece jacket. There were also other color fibers from that same jacket.

There WAS a santa suit in the home that JR used for his company Christmas parties. None of those fibers were found on the body or the crime scene.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

This is from Kolar's book so I don't take this as anything more than his say so, But yes. Someone could have had an accident and then touched the box. We have no idea what smeared means if it is at all true.

Kids are messy when they have accidents.

ETA: And if this is true, Did they take a sample? DNA test it?

Let me ask you this: Was any of BR's DNA allowed to be taken? I know the answer to this but I'm seeing if you have heard about this issue one way or the other?

If no sample of his DNA was allowed to be taken what was the reason?

Also, if a crime is a "bedroom crime" (a crime that is committed within the privacy of the home and possibly by another residing within the home) do you think it is logical that you would not have anything more than circumstantial evidence; especially if some of the suspects are minors and are protected by special laws in that State?

You're probably not going to have surveillance footage.

You're probably not going to have DNA samples lying about because in most 'bedroom crimes' the suspects have ample time and privacy to clean it up.

You're probably not going to have eye witnesses.

And probably 'motive' is not so clear too.

So, in cases such as this there's circumstantial evidence. It is what it is.
That means that statistics and likelihoods should be reviewed to give direction to an investigation.

Some people like following cases that are not 'bedroom crimes' because they prefer more solid evidence & science. But that doesn't negate that JBR was murdered and her murderer never faced jailtime.

 

[Arnie M]

One of the professional sexual abuse profilers (FBI I think) (was interviewed on Trish Radio) said explicitly that a father cannot sexually abuse his own daughter (he said it is impossible)

He then went on to say that when a father does such a thing he (in his mind) detaches himself (from the father-daughter mindset) and ... "becomes someone else" (in his mind)

I have explained it poorly , if I find the link I will post it.

I was able to find the radio interview with Peter Hyatt
The whole interview is excellent (using linguistics to determine guilt)
The portion about father abusers starts at 28:00
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/insidelenz/2013/01/09/crime-wire

I should clarify my "maybe Santa did it" theory .... I have actually always believed the RDI .... but could never reconcile a father abusing his daughter .... Mr Hyatt shows how it can happen (disassociation from being the father) .... being Santa could allow that .... maybe Santa was abusing and PR caught them .... blow was intended for Santa and hit JB instead ... then a coverup.

I acknowledge I am stretching pretty thin here ... like I said I believe RDI and just trying to figure out the how and why.

Thanks everyone for the Ramsey Santa costume info

AM

 

[rashomon]

Of course they can but they don't fashion garrotes and molest them and then bash their head in when they are dead.

The head blow came first.
Re your opinion that no parent would have staged a scene such a 'stupid' way: one can assume that the minds of such parents - who are under the tremdenous psychological pressure to cover up the true reason for a domestic homicide - don't function in a rational and analytical manner, due to the special situation. That's why one often finds glaring 'mistakes' in staged scenes.

 

[rashomon]

Does anyone recall if the red fibers on the tape was positively determined to be from PR clothing ... or was it just similar ? Both Santa Suit and PR clothing are the typical Christmas red fabrics.

The red fibers on the tape were found to be cosistent with those of the jacket Patsy hd been wearing on that night. The technical term "consisitent with" used by fiber means what we laypersons would call a "match".

If I was a detective on scene... I would have tested the cord , the fragments of cord found on JB's bed , and the red fibers to compare to Santa suits of the 1990's era.

If I recall corrrectly, the fragments of cord found on JonBenet's bed were of a hemp rope which was found in the Ramsey home (in John Andrew Ramsey's bedroom).

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Where's BR's DNA?


:banghead:

 

[Flossie JMO]

OT, sort of, just read a tragic story of 6 year old Lee Bonneau who died with a head injury. Some sort of weapon, not a gun or knife. Police say "boy under 12" did it. Just horrible

 

[DeeDee249]

Where's BR's DNA?


:banghead:

His prints are on the bowl of pineapple and on the empty glass with the teabag next to the bowl.
His DNA was also found on the pink Barbie nightie that was on top of the white blanket covering the body.
As far as I know, no test was made for saliva on the glass, spoon, or the pineapple in that bowl (which should also have given us JB's DNA).
As we have been told, only 10% of the evidence against the family has been made public, so there may be evidence that these items were tested. I also recall reading that if the public knew ALL of the evidence- there would be NO doubt anyone's mind that the family was involved.

 

[Flossie JMO]

OT reminded me I am not sure when the murder trial of the 12 year old brother of 8 year old Leila Fowler will be.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

OT reminded me I am not sure when the murder trial of the 12 year old brother of 8 year old Leila Fowler will be.

The next hearing for Leila's brother is September 18, and the judge will determine when the trial will begin.

 

[2 percent]

OT, sort of, just read a tragic story of 6 year old Lee Bonneau who died with a head injury. Some sort of weapon, not a gun or knife. Police say "boy under 12" did it. Just horrible

And under Canadian law that boy can't be charged.
Thank you Steven Truscott :stormingmad:

 

[rashomon]

As we have been told, only 10% of the evidence against the family has been made public, so there may be evidence that these items were tested. I also recall reading that if the public knew ALL of the evidence- there would be NO doubt anyone's mind that the family was involved.

If John Ramsey ever told the truth about something, it was in his words "This was an inside job", spoken immediately after the body was discovered.
At that moment, the truth found its way out of John's mouth despite his suggesting to detective Arndt that a 'non-family insider' (like the housekeeper Linda Hoffman-Pugh, who was among the first whom the Ramseys tried to throw under the bus) had done this ...

His prints are on the bowl of pineapple and on the empty glass with the teabag next to the bowl.
His DNA was also found on the pink Barbie nightie that was on top of the white blanket covering the body.
As far as I know, no test was made for saliva on the glass, spoon, or the pineapple in that bowl (which should also have given us JB's DNA).

And hadn't Burke hit JonBenet in the face with a golf club two years before? The Ramsyes said that it was an 'accidental' blow, but can it be really excluded that intent played no role?

 

[Darlene733510]

I think BR's dislike for his Sister was building up for a long time. Didn't we hear that when they were on vacation they kept the children away from each other because of this.
It's probably documented in his medical records, which we haven't seen. I just wonder how many other incidents there were besides the golf club injury.
Could one of JB's trophies be the weapon used to hit her on the head? Seems possible that it could have been used by a boy who was fed up with all the attention JB was getting. Once JB was gone, the attention JB received would be diverted to him.

 

[BOESP]

I still wonder about the small hand weight mentioned as being in JonBenet's bedroom (I assume the type women use to tone the arms). otg ... are you reading this.

 

[BOESP]

I think BR's dislike for his Sister was building up for a long time. Didn't we hear that when they were on vacation they kept the children away from each other because of this.
It's probably documented in his medical records, which we haven't seen. I just wonder how many other incidents there were besides the golf club injury.
Could one of JB's trophies be the weapon used to hit her on the head? Seems possible that it could have been used by a boy who was fed up with all the attention JB was getting. Once JB was gone, the attention JB received would be diverted to him.

I am all but convinced Burke has a part in this but I'm not so sure he is the one who inflicted the damage on JonBenet's head or strangled her.

I think the information available to the public shows that Patsy is the responsible for killing JonBenet by reckless action that a reasonable adult who, beforehand, would presume such action could/would cause bodily harm.

I think John Ramsey played a part but I'm not sure in what capacity. I see him as a supporting accomplice rather than an active participant, meaning the reckless behavior could have been prevented if he had intervened somewhere along the line (I don't think what happened was a first-time event). He possibly also helped with the staging but I still have doubts about that.

I've been wrong before and may be wrong now. :twocents: