GUILTY KS - Andrew Finch, 28, killed by LE in 'swatting' prank, Wichita, 28 Dec 2017 *civil trial 2022*

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Exactly.
LE at Andrew's house thought there was a crime in progress !!
Imagine the outcry if it HAD been true... and LE didn't take it seriously, and people died ???

An innocent person did die. So I doubt that outcry would have been any worse. The police need to learn how to evaluate calls, and respond appropriately. That would include not showing up with guns blazing even before they verify that a crime has taken place.
 
An innocent person did die. So I doubt that outcry would have been any worse. The police need to learn how to evaluate calls, and respond appropriately. That would include not showing up with guns blazing even before they verify that a crime has taken place.

Folks call in fake bomb calls, or that they're going to shoot up a school, all the time. I expect LE to show up. Ready, jic. I am naturally leery of most LE, but this went through a different route before it even got to 911. Had they held off, and it had been real? The caller could have set the house alight. I'd not want the job. Period. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. This was presented as a high risk situation with a kid inside, and two other folks, along with gasoline and a house ready to go up. As I've said, I worry about my child all the time b/c he is hard of hearing, and was recently a victim of police brutality, so I'm no cheerleader, but the swatter set up a very volatile situation. If not for the swatter they'd have never been there.
 
Hopefully there will be a FULL investigation of LE into why this happened.
Not going to dispute that at all !!
If LE want us to trust them-- they need to release all of the body cam footage.
There's no reason at all to withhold it.

I will certainly 'eat crow' if the officer who shot Andrew did this because he just loves to murder anybody he can.

It's infuriating that Andrew died because some *bleep bleeper* thought it would be fun to call in a fake scenario.
The fact that TB added the bit about gas being poured throughout , hostages taken, and that the caller was going to possibly throw a match and light up the place.... made this into the tragedy it is !

LE came there thinking they had to get the caller to come out and away from the house with arms in the air-- or use extreme measures to save the hostages.

Except there were no hostages, nor was there any deceased people (per TB's call),nor was any fuel poured.
Law enforcement was also victimized -- just as they have been in other situations where they were called and it was an ambush instead.

Some people expect LE to protect them and even lay down their own lives for them.
And then when it goes haywire LE gets the brunt of the blame.

What if LE had waited and tried to further assess the situation-- and then (assuming this was a real scenario) a match was thrown , engulfing the house ?
There'd be dead hostages and LE would be at fault, in the eyes of the public, anyway. :(
It's like LE can't win.
Never mind about the puke who called it in.

Andrew's death is on T. Barriss .

Wish this TB could get at least 2nd degree murder or manslaughter !

Won't be holding my breath.
:moo:
 
What if LE had waited and tried to further assess the situation-- and then (assuming this was a real scenario) a match was thrown , engulfing the house ?
There'd be dead hostages and LE would be at fault, in the eyes of the public, anyway. :

If lE had waited and tried to further assess the situation, then Andrew Finch would be alive today. I can't believe that people actually advocate that police shooting first and asking questions later is a good policy. :facepalm:
 
If lE had waited and tried to further assess the situation, then Andrew Finch would be alive today. I can't believe that people actually advocate that police shooting first and asking questions later is a good policy. :facepalm:

I don't think anyone is advocating that. This was a bad situation, all the way around, and that poor man died, and had it not been for the swatter, no one would have thought he'd taken hostages in a gasoline filled home, and had a firearm. I want to see all of the video. I think the public has that right, not to mention the family. I'm just not making judgement calls, based on what info they had, going in to what they thought was a hostage situation, w/one person down but possibly alive, and two others who could be going up in flames. It's a tragedy all the way around. If the camera footage shows that the officer just decided he wanted to shoot someone that night, for S***z and giggles, then he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
 
I don't think anyone is advocating that. This was a bad situation, all the way around, and that poor man died, and had it not been for the swatter, no one would have thought he'd taken hostages in a gasoline filled home, and had a firearm. I want to see all of the video. I think the public has that right, not to mention the family. I'm just not making judgement calls, based on what info they had, going in to what they thought was a hostage situation, w/one person down but possibly alive, and two others who could be going up in flames. It's a tragedy all the way around. If the camera footage shows that the officer just decided he wanted to shoot someone that night, for S***z and giggles, then he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

But that is exactly what you did advocate. If the police had waited, more people could have been killed. But the reality of this situation is that no one else would have been killed, had the police waited, and one innocent man would be alive. Just because somebody is threatening to kill hostages is not a good reason for LE to come in shooting. Because that would likely result in the hostages being killed, either by the hostage taker, or by random police bullets. If it was a real hostage situation, then they would need to negotiate, but first they need to investigate and find out what is really going on.
 
But that is exactly what you did advocate. If the police had waited, more people could have been killed. But the reality of this situation is that no one else would have been killed, had the police waited, and one innocent man would be alive. Just because somebody is threatening to kill hostages is not a good reason for LE to come in shooting. Because that would likely result in the hostages being killed, either by the hostage taker, or by random police bullets. If it was a real hostage situation, then they would need to negotiate, but first they need to investigate and find out what is really going on.
They had to respond to an emergency situation. Absolutely. Did the officer flinch? We've not seen all the cam to determine what made him fire, but, there wasn't a blaze of gunfire going off. I want to know why that officer shot, and I've not seen enough evidence to damn a whole LE dept., the person who first took the call and tried to get it to 911, asap, nor the 911 operator who took the call. If some jerk calls in an active shooter at my kid's school, I don't want them mulling over whether it could be a swatter, a prank from within, or a true gunman, or not.

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They had to respond to an emergency situation. Absolutely. Did the officer flinch? We've not seen all the cam to determine what made him fire, but, there wasn't a blaze of gunfire going off. I want to know why that officer shot, and I've not seen enough evidence to damn a whole LE dept., the person who first took the call and tried to get it to 911, asap, nor the 911 operator who took the call. If some jerk calls in an active shooter at my kid's school, I don't want them mulling over whether it could be a swatter, a prank from within, or a true gunman, or not.

For about the 1000th time this was a call of a hostage situation, not an active shooter. So that is not relevant. FYI police are trained to unload their guns when firing. That means about 10 shots. One shot generally means an officer got an itchy trigger finger. If they mean to shoot, they keep shooting. If they fire by accident, they stop there.
 
For about the 1000th time this was a call of a hostage situation, not an active shooter. So that is not relevant. FYI police are trained to unload their guns when firing. That means about 10 shots. One shot generally means an officer got an itchy trigger finger. If they mean to shoot, they keep shooting. If they fire by accident, they stop there.

From what I've read, the man was shot once, and no other LEOs shot. I may have missed that he was shot multiple times. Yes, it may have been a call about a man holding his family hostage, but ultimately it would fall under domestic violence & very volatile. For the 1000th time, they think they have folks sitting there in gasoline, holding a child in a closet, with a nut who'd killed his father. All it would have taken was the toss of a zippo. It's a heartbreaking situation but one they'd never been in had it not been for TB, a man whose own grandmother is afraid of him. Had it not been for TB, none of this would have happened. He's the one that brought them there. You and I cannot seem to find common ground on this issue so the two of us may as well stop beating this horse.

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192948564.html
 
From what I've read, the man was shot once, and no other LEOs shot. I may have missed that he was shot multiple times. Yes, it may have been a call about a man holding his family hostage, but ultimately it would fall under domestic violence & very volatile. For the 1000th time, they think they have folks sitting there in gasoline, holding a child in a closet, with a nut who'd killed his father. All it would have taken was the toss of a zippo. It's a heartbreaking situation but one they'd never been in had it not been for TB, a man whose own grandmother is afraid of him. Had it not been for TB, none of this would have happened. He's the one that brought them there. You and I cannot seem to find common ground on this issue so the two of us may as well stop beating this horse.

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192948564.html

So how were they to know the man walking out of the house wasn't one of the alleged hostages?
 
So how were they to know the man walking out of the house wasn't one of the alleged hostages?
This!

The fact that only one cop shot one time tells us everything. This was a big effing mistake.

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From what I've read, the man was shot once, and no other LEOs shot. I may have missed that he was shot multiple times. Yes, it may have been a call about a man holding his family hostage, but ultimately it would fall under domestic violence & very volatile. For the 1000th time, they think they have folks sitting there in gasoline, holding a child in a closet, with a nut who'd killed his father. All it would have taken was the toss of a zippo. It's a heartbreaking situation but one they'd never been in had it not been for TB, a man whose own grandmother is afraid of him. Had it not been for TB, none of this would have happened. He's the one that brought them there. You and I cannot seem to find common ground on this issue so the two of us may as well stop beating this horse.

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192948564.html

It was one time, because one of the cops got an itchy trigger finger, and fired when he shouldn't have. If he was really a threat, all off the cops would have fired at least ten shots each. He died because of police incompetence.
 
lol Like, they met up beforehand and were like "if we have to shoot him, it's Jim's* turn, nobody else shoot him k?"

*random name
 
This!

The fact that only one cop shot one time tells us everything. This was a big effing mistake.

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It was one big cluster *advertiser censored**. That's why I want to see all the video, to know why they guy shot, but at the end of the day, I lay the majority of the blame, squarely on the swatter.
 
So how were they to know the man walking out of the house wasn't one of the alleged hostages?

This is why I want to see all of the video, and I'm not focusing on damning an entire LE Dept., nor making horrible comments about LEOs taking turns. I want to see the footage from the man who shot. One man. I want to know if it truly looked as if he was, or those in that house were, in danger at that point in time.
 
This is why I want to see all of the video, and I'm not focusing on damning an entire LE Dept., nor making horrible comments about LEOs taking turns. I want to see the footage from the man who shot. One man. I want to know if it truly looked as if he was, or those in that house were, in danger at that point in time.

Hoping you don't seriously believe that I think they take turns choosing who gets to shoot a citizen :no:

BBM - Isn't that what everyone here is screeching about? That they believed everyone in the house was in danger and that's whyyyyy he pulled the trigger on the man in the doorway?
 
Hoping you don't seriously believe that I think they take turns choosing who gets to shoot a citizen :no:

BBM - Isn't that what everyone here is screeching about? That they believed everyone in the house was in danger and that's whyyyyy he pulled the trigger on the man in the doorway?

I was hoping you didn't seriously believe that. These cases are always terrible. Some are clear cut. The one where the cop shot the dude running away, multiple times, and then dropped an object (iirc) beside him, all caught on video. Clear cut to me.

It was a terrible situation that I would not ever want to be placed in this situation. If the video shows that the guy had zero reason to shoot, and just killed the guy, for standing on his porch, then he shouldn't even be a desk jockey. He should be judged in court. If it looks, to truly be that the guy was reaching for something or could be tossing something, that was a very tough call. A hard of hearing kid got shot and killed b/c he couldn't hear the commands. They didn't know he couldn't hear. The guy that beat the Holy Hell out of my kid, for zero reason, and had his lackey turn the cameras off, first, got caught on film doing it to someone else. They just shipped him to another region. So, yes, there are bad cops out there. I still think that the swatter bears the brunt of what happened to this man.
 
Wichita "swatting" suspect accused in similar incident

[....]

On December 22, 2017, Calgary 911 received a call from a man who claimed he had shot his father and was holding his mom and younger brother hostage. A tactical unit went to the location and evacuated neighbors. A short time later 911 received a call from a woman who lived at the home claiming she believed she was a swatting victim. Calgary Police believe the woman was targeted because of her online persona. [....]

http://www.kake.com/story/37229483/wichita-swatting-suspect-charged-in-similar-incident
 
Basically I think this is a situation where the officers were forced into a situation that they don't normally have to deal with on a regular basis. Forced into to something they weren't prepared to handle because of prior exsperiances.

Therefore an unfortunate outcome of circumstances started by the individual who made a false report.
 
Wichita "swatting" suspect accused in similar incident

[....]

On December 22, 2017, Calgary 911 received a call from a man who claimed he had shot his father and was holding his mom and younger brother hostage. A tactical unit went to the location and evacuated neighbors. A short time later 911 received a call from a woman who lived at the home claiming she believed she was a swatting victim. Calgary Police believe the woman was targeted because of her online persona. [....]

http://www.kake.com/story/37229483/wichita-swatting-suspect-charged-in-similar-incident

This man is a horrible person. He even threatened to beat his granny's face in b/c she was going to call about a swat he'd done. :mad:
 

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