Wyle_E_Coyote
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KS - Caleb Schwab, 10, dies on 17-story Schlitterbahn waterpark slide, Aug 2016
- Thread starter wfgodot
- Start date
Clipping from one of my earlier posts.
In the face of civil litigation or criminal charges, imo, Park Owner/Mgmt's Def team would argue:
In letting ppl ride the Verruckt, we did not recklessly expose them to danger of Great Bodily Harm or death. Nobody had been seriously hurt or died before. After 2014 pre-opening tests when rafts took flight, we modified/redesigned the slide, added safety hoops & nets, & velcro straps, etc, then no more flying rafts.When we learned about the poss danger of GBH or Death, we corrected to make it safe before we let the public ride. In 2½ seasons, 3 summers, X00,000 rides have been completed w no GBH or deaths. We did not endanger Caleb.
This ^ could be their argument, azz-uming there have been no reported GBH or deaths on ride. Likely we would have read or heard about them. Likely ppl have suffered scraped knees & elbows, IDK.
Another argument they could make about the raggedy straps is
Yes, other riders this summer advised us about velcro straps coming undone, but even w them unattached, no rider suffered GBH or death. And after we were told, of course, we checked all rafts and replaced straps on 1 (2, 5, all?) rafts. But that actually shows we have redundant safety measures, because even w those partially attached or unattached straps, no rider was hurt. The ride was still safe.
In short, it was a safe ride until it was not (when Caleb died). They did not have the requisite 'state of mind' as to danger re riders' safety for criminal liability to attach to their actions, imo. Civil liability is another matter.
In other amusement ride cases
ppl have referred or linked to, the owners/mgmt had actual knowledge of prior Great Bodily Harm or Death occurring on their rides and AFAIK, failed to take steps to correct/repair the ride. Later when riders were injured, owners/mgmt had been reckless by their failure to fix a known danger/unsafe feature. So there was criminal and civil liability. JM2cts.
In the face of civil litigation or criminal charges, imo, Park Owner/Mgmt's Def team would argue:
In letting ppl ride the Verruckt, we did not recklessly expose them to danger of Great Bodily Harm or death. Nobody had been seriously hurt or died before. After 2014 pre-opening tests when rafts took flight, we modified/redesigned the slide, added safety hoops & nets, & velcro straps, etc, then no more flying rafts.When we learned about the poss danger of GBH or Death, we corrected to make it safe before we let the public ride. In 2½ seasons, 3 summers, X00,000 rides have been completed w no GBH or deaths. We did not endanger Caleb.
This ^ could be their argument, azz-uming there have been no reported GBH or deaths on ride. Likely we would have read or heard about them. Likely ppl have suffered scraped knees & elbows, IDK.
Another argument they could make about the raggedy straps is
Yes, other riders this summer advised us about velcro straps coming undone, but even w them unattached, no rider suffered GBH or death. And after we were told, of course, we checked all rafts and replaced straps on 1 (2, 5, all?) rafts. But that actually shows we have redundant safety measures, because even w those partially attached or unattached straps, no rider was hurt. The ride was still safe.
In short, it was a safe ride until it was not (when Caleb died). They did not have the requisite 'state of mind' as to danger re riders' safety for criminal liability to attach to their actions, imo. Civil liability is another matter.
In other amusement ride cases
ppl have referred or linked to, the owners/mgmt had actual knowledge of prior Great Bodily Harm or Death occurring on their rides and AFAIK, failed to take steps to correct/repair the ride. Later when riders were injured, owners/mgmt had been reckless by their failure to fix a known danger/unsafe feature. So there was criminal and civil liability. JM2cts.
Not John Paul but responding anyway. Agreeing w you, Wylie, that ^ 50% figure may be overstating the number.
But whether 5% or 50%, imo that is mos' def' a contributing factor/the cause of a significant number of vehicle crashes on streets & highways.
A bit OT: My own SWAG on vehicle crash causes = 50% drunken drivers; 50% drugged drivers; 50% texting drivers; 50% other, e.g., taking selfies; styling hair; eating; applying makeup; smoking ciggies; reading novel; changing Sirius channels; arguing w spouse in front seat; fussing at children in back seat, etc. J/K about vehicle crashes, but few or none of these distractions on a water slide.
Madeleine74
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Remember, the Ford Pinto, the Ford "park-to-reverse" automatic transmission (circa 1970-80), the Audi 5000, and the 2004-2010 Toyota and 2006-2010 Lexus (gas pedals stuck in down position) were all designed by engineers. Lots of bad designs and resulting deaths were courtesy of bonafide engineers. And that's not even touching all the various appliances (car seats, and other items) for babies that have had engineering failures.
The designers and owners and consulting engineers of this particular deathRide may not be criminally prosecuted, but they certainly will be raked over the proverbial coals in civil court to the greatest extent possible.
The designers and owners and consulting engineers of this particular deathRide may not be criminally prosecuted, but they certainly will be raked over the proverbial coals in civil court to the greatest extent possible.
neesaki
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I have to assume you misunderstood my post. <mod snip> let me say it like this, a "tire puncture" isn't a design flaw. It has to do with environmental conditions, aka the road.
A wheel bearing going bad, has to do with wear and tear, as in maintenance, also not a design flaw. To keep it short... broken this, busted that... typically has to do with wear and tear and maintenance of the vehicle. Not design. Yes, there are some more cheaply made vehicles that will not hold up as long as say a Mercedes Benz. But that's not the point is it? Because that's not even what we're talking about here. We're talking about a poorly designed mutant / roller coaster / water slide ride. It's so crazy, they don't even know what to call it, other than "INSANE". The fact is, if a car was designed with no more engineering skills than this crazy Insane ride, it would never make it to the factory, much less make it to the road. jmo
gregjrichards
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Very interesting article.
"With enough investigation — analyzing records, studying designs, perhaps running wired crash dummies down the ride — experts promise they can learn why a 10-year-old boy died on a water slide.
Whether such an analysis of Caleb Schwab’s death on Schlitterbahn’s towering Verrückt is ever revealed publicly remains far less certain"
http://www.kansascity.com/news/article96777077.html
"With enough investigation — analyzing records, studying designs, perhaps running wired crash dummies down the ride — experts promise they can learn why a 10-year-old boy died on a water slide.
Whether such an analysis of Caleb Schwab’s death on Schlitterbahn’s towering Verrückt is ever revealed publicly remains far less certain"
http://www.kansascity.com/news/article96777077.html
JohnPaul
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you think engineers are perfect?....they are people, they are human and they make LOTS of mistakes,
just look at all of the recalls there have been on vehicles over the past 10 years alone, those are ALL engineering mistakes
this one i have seen personally....planned 47 floor story building, then deemed to be unsafe after more then half complete, had to be demolished....."Work on the Harmon stopped in 2008, after inspectors found steel used on the first 26 stories wouldn't support the remaining 22 floors."......yup good ole engineers for ya.....
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/dec/16/opening-arguments-begin-trial-over-flawed-strip-ho/
and take a look at this.....
http://wonderfulengineering.com/31-engineering-mistakes-that-make-you-wonder-who-gave-them-engineering-degrees/
ninij9
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The flaw with comparing this to a motor vehicle to me is this: a motor vehicle belongs to the consumer. The consumer is co responsible for the running parts of said motor vehicle. If seatbelt straps wear out, or the engine light goes on, said consumer must bring his automobile to a dealer or mechanic for repair. Also the consumer is responsible for maintenance, wear and tear and general overall health of said vehicle.
JMO, MOO, IMO
Now, a parent of a ten year old boy has the reasonable expectation the their son would arrive at the top of this ride, be strapped in, in the correct position, ride the ride and complete the ride intact and safe. He's not driving a car. He's on a ride in a multimillion dollar family amusement park where his parents believe all safety precautions are taken on a daily basis. They shouldn't have to wonder about the types of straps used to propel their most precious children down a waterslide at over 60 miles per hour. JMO, IMO, MOO
Sigh, I would not have allowed my 10 year old on this slide. I remember when my daughter met the height requirement for adult bumper rides but she was too young by three years. The kid manning the ride was encouraging me to let her go anyway. I think this is a problem in some parks. Any way, I don't blame ANYONE but the ride itself. I've been on log flumes where my entire behind has left the seat but was held in by bars. Who's idea was it to allow a flimsy TUBE without a tract to descend at speeds over 60 mpr? JMO, IMO, MOO.[emoji46]
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Jax49
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Thank you for posting this link. The more I read and watch the sicker it makes me.
Wyle_E_Coyote
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I don't understand. Are you saying that you would be happy to drive a car designed and built by high school drop out Bubba next door? Or spend time in a multi story building that Bubba designed?
If engineers with degrees, specialized training, advanced CAD and computer modeling, etc, sometimes make mistakes, what chance does a high school dropout have of getting a complex structure like the Verruckt right?
Because the Verruckt was "designed" by a high school drop out. No training in advanced physics or hydraulics. None of them fancy computer models. "Trial and error."
Jeff Henry wouldn't be able to get a job (other than at the company he owns) doing design and engineering work because he is not an engineer and wouldn't meet the basic requirements in education and training for such work.
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Madeleine74
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I doubt the 'designer' of the Verruckt will ever be able to build another structure again. After the multiple civil lawsuits that will get filed, he'll be lucky to be able to afford admission to a park.
ninij9
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I cringed at his interview in 2014 where he states that Verruct was small potatoes compared to his next slide, then one TWICE as large after that. Sigh.
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I don't think one needs to be an expert to figure out how he died. Velcro used for restraints, a number of people prior having their restraints fail (but since they were adults, they were able to hold themselves in). A child wouldn't have enough body strength to hold himself in the boat if his restraints fail.
Wyle_E_Coyote
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I hope that's true. Unfortunately, Kansas has pretty low caps on personal injury and wrongful death suits (250,000). Hopefully there will be a way for them to file suit in Texas where the company is based.
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He isn't personally going to pay for lawsuits. Kansas sets limits for damages.
Madeleine74
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His reputation is ruined (the designer of the deathRide), if he ever had a reputation to begin with. There's more damage than monetary. Who will want to work with this guy and his team? What kind of funding do you think he would get? Who will insure his rides? Those are all factors. KS may well change some of the lax laws, given this tragedy. Wait and watch how it all unfolds. This tragedy will have consequences; he's not going to be able to just go back to business as usual/no big deal.
He is a brother of the owner and co-owner of the park. I don't think others would hire him as a designer before this anyway, as he doesn't have an engineering degree. But as long as he is a co-owner of the park, presumably he can continue on as before.
Jax49
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Hopefully the lawsuits can be brought in Texas and put a stop to these idiots. MOO.