Found Deceased KS - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #10 *Arrest*

[Zelda1010]

Blue is trained in live person detection. I don’t think he tracks cadavers.


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I've been wondering that myself. How long would a scent tracking dog be able to track once the person is dead. I mean, it isn't like the body immediately stops giving off the smell. Does the immediate start of decomp type scents throw off a tracking dog completely?

I was thinking how unfortunate that they just moved into this rental. I've wondered if Blue would be discriminatory enough to give police an idea of whether an unknown person was in or around a home. In this situation for sure there would be all the previous renters, any cleaning help, the landlord, the realtor, any other prospective renters, so even if it was possible, it wouldn't help here.

So, I do wonder if Blue would be thrown off by a death within minutes or hours or ???

Obviously a cadaver dog hitting is very ominous. But a scent dog tracking...does it rule out death?

But that's just because I've been left to ponder this with so limited info for 2+ weeks personally. (Sorry, I know this is not the kind of post that will help find Lucas. But the K9s are interesting to me.)

 

[haven71]

I've been wondering that myself. How long would a scent tracking dog be able to track once the person is dead. I mean, it isn't like the body immediately stops giving off the smell. Does the immediate start of decomp type scents throw off a tracking dog completely?

I was thinking how unfortunate that they just moved into this rental. I've wondered if Blue would be discriminatory enough to give police an idea of whether an unknown person was in or around a home. In this situation for sure there would be all the previous renters, any cleaning help, the landlord, the realtor, any other prospective renters, so even if it was possible, it wouldn't help here.

So, I do wonder if Blue would be thrown off by a death within minutes or hours or ???

Obviously a cadaver dog hitting is very ominous. But a scent dog tracking...does it rule out death?

But that's just because I've been left to ponder this with so limited info for 2+ weeks personally. (Sorry, I know this is not the kind of post that will help find Lucas. But the K9s are interesting to me.)

I'm very interested in the dogs as well.

I would *think* that traces at least on the victim's clothing, shoes, etc. would still be detectable by scent dogs, but that's just a guess. Looks like I have some research to do...good question.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Blue is trained in live person detection. I don’t think he tracks cadavers.


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That is my take too.

So, what does it mean that Blue wasn't able to track him?

IMO
Lucas isn't in the area any longer.

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[Bobadooo]

Are there currently any billboards for Lucas? If not, contacting billboard companies requesting them to donate space might be worthwhile. I'm not sure how to go about that.

I'm still catching up on reading the thread but if this hasn't been answered yet, yes, there are some I know of along k15 at least. Definitely the one around k15 & 63rd in Derby.

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[haven71]

I've been wondering that myself. How long would a scent tracking dog be able to track once the person is dead. I mean, it isn't like the body immediately stops giving off the smell. Does the immediate start of decomp type scents throw off a tracking dog completely?

I was thinking how unfortunate that they just moved into this rental. I've wondered if Blue would be discriminatory enough to give police an idea of whether an unknown person was in or around a home. In this situation for sure there would be all the previous renters, any cleaning help, the landlord, the realtor, any other prospective renters, so even if it was possible, it wouldn't help here.

So, I do wonder if Blue would be thrown off by a death within minutes or hours or ???

Obviously a cadaver dog hitting is very ominous. But a scent dog tracking...does it rule out death?

But that's just because I've been left to ponder this with so limited info for 2+ weeks personally. (Sorry, I know this is not the kind of post that will help find Lucas. But the K9s are interesting to me.)

So far I've found this:

"Cadaver and water-search dogs are the only types specifically trained to scent for human remains, although all SAR dogs will alert to remains if they find them. In major disasters like the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, the collapse of the World Trade Center in 2001 and the 2005 earthquake in Pakistan, air-scent dogs in all specialty areas assisted in the search for survivors. This actually led to problems for some of the dogs, because SAR dogs trained to find living people can become discouraged when they find only dead bodies. The dogs understand that live finds are preferable, partly due to their training, partly due to the reactions of their handler and partly because live people can usually give some form of feedback -- and the dogs crave feedback. At Oklahoma City and Ground Zero, handlers and firefighters hid in the rubble to give the dogs a living person to find so they could feel successful and get their reward."

https://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/sar-dog2.htm

 

[Paddleboarder]

All LE stated was they searched the home and neighborhood using dogs and had no luck locating him - they never have said which dogs, or if any scent was found or where.


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I think we should delve into the non-statement more.


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[Paddleboarder]

No PB.

Hmmm...


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[ScarlettLin]

So far I've found this:

"Cadaver and water-search dogs are the only types specifically trained to scent for human remains, although all SAR dogs will alert to remains if they find them. In major disasters like the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, the collapse of the World Trade Center in 2001 and the 2005 earthquake in Pakistan, air-scent dogs in all specialty areas assisted in the search for survivors. This actually led to problems for some of the dogs, because SAR dogs trained to find living people can become discouraged when they find only dead bodies. The dogs understand that live finds are preferable, partly due to their training, partly due to the reactions of their handler and partly because live people can usually give some form of feedback -- and the dogs crave feedback. At Oklahoma City and Ground Zero, handlers and firefighters hid in the rubble to give the dogs a living person to find so they could feel successful and get their reward."

https://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/sar-dog2.htm

That made me cry- the handlers and firefighters would hide to give them live finds [emoji24][emoji174]


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[Paddleboarder]

Nope no where that I've seen.

I think that’s telling.


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[ScarlettLin]

I think we should delve into the non-statement more.


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Ok, LE isn’t saying. Why? To make someone sweat it. OR to make someone more comfortable in their lie, so they may slip up? *my guess*


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[PommyMommy]

Ok, LE isn’t saying. Why? To make someone sweat it. OR to make someone more comfortable in their lie, so they may slip up? *my guess*


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Just wondering out loud...LE said they searched the home and the neighborhood with no luck...they didn't mention vehicles or the park, though. Hmmm

 

[haven71]

I think that’s telling.


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So it sounds like there's a good chance that either tracking/scent dogs and/or cadavers had at least one hit. It would sure be helpful to know which one, and the location. But I suspect that info would also be very helpful to EG, so for now we're left to ponder...

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Just wondering out loud...LE said they searched the home and the neighborhood with no luck...they didn't mention vehicles or the park, though. Hmmm

Parks too.

"Officers were near the park with K9's ready to search the area and next possible location when*needed."

http://www.kake.com/story/37628842/volunteers-continue-to-search-for-lucas-hernandez

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[ScarlettLin]

Just wondering out loud...LE said they searched the home and the neighborhood with no luck...they didn't mention vehicles or the park, though. Hmmm

they mentioned parks but they have not mentioned *any* vehicles *at all* to my recollection.


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[Zelda1010]

So far I've found this:

"Cadaver and water-search dogs are the only types specifically trained to scent for human remains, although all SAR dogs will alert to remains if they find them. In major disasters like the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, the collapse of the World Trade Center in 2001 and the 2005 earthquake in Pakistan, air-scent dogs in all specialty areas assisted in the search for survivors. This actually led to problems for some of the dogs, because SAR dogs trained to find living people can become discouraged when they find only dead bodies. The dogs understand that live finds are preferable, partly due to their training, partly due to the reactions of their handler and partly because live people can usually give some form of feedback -- and the dogs crave feedback. At Oklahoma City and Ground Zero, handlers and firefighters hid in the rubble to give the dogs a living person to find so they could feel successful and get their reward."

https://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/sar-dog2.htm

(Oh that is so sad that the poor puppies get discouraged if they don't find living survivors! And to think of their handlers hiding in those circumstances to help the dog keep searching without being completely discouraged.

Thanks for sharing.)

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

they mentioned parks but they have not mentioned *any* vehicles *at all* to my recollection.


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That, I have not seen either.
Moo

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[katydid23]

We need to know who her carrier was too.

I think it was Verizon. There is a picture of her cell phone someone posted upthread, from her FB page.

 

[perfectingpink]

Sorry to break in here. I posted the gender reveal here:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?367244-Need-a-break&p=13985350#post13985350

 

[haven71]

That, I have not seen either.
Moo

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The first mention of a vehicle I believe came from FLA; he let us know the color and style of EG's car. I remember nobody could find any statements made about a car being impounded, nor has there been since.

 

[haven71]

suggested we delve into the non-statements (LE's zipped lips regarding tracking and cadaver dogs and if they hit somewhere or not).

I know in Deorr Kunz's case, I remember also discussing this at length. Did the dogs hit or didn't they? We weren't even sure if Deorr was at the campground he supposedly disappeared from. So I don't think LE told us squat. In fact IIRC, it wasn't until Klein Investigations took the case that we heard inklings that a cadaver dog hit on Deorr Sr.'s truck. But I don't know if that was ever verified or not.

Long-time WS'ers, is it typical for this information not to be released by LE during the investigation? From my very limited knowledge, it seems like it...