Found Deceased KS - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #21 *Arrest*

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Not trying to beat a dead horse, so to speak, but is there proof the FaceTime including Lucas happened or is it possible that was a lie on both their parts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never thought about this. Good point. Perhaps it didn't really happen. Do we know how often JH spoke to Lucas while he was away from home for those long periods of time? I just can't get it out of my mind that JH was home when Lucas received the recent bruises. So, even if he face-timed with him, LH's bruises wouldn't be alarming to JH.
 
​I just had what Oprah would refer to as an a-ha moment with this case. Whether Emily noticed a precipitous decline in Lucas’ health in the days leading up to his disappearance or she was pre-meditating his demise, I think it’s safe to say that whatever was going on was already underway on Valentine’s Day. Here’s the a-ha moment: EG went to out in public to OG not to be cruel & neglectful of Lucas (although the she was very clearly that anyway), she went out to be seen WITHOUT HIM. She was putting her “JO had Lucas for VD” plan into full effect. She needed to be seen without him to “prove” Lucas was with his bio-mom. Of course, Lucas foiled that plan in a HUGE way when he was seen by the landlord ... home alone peeking out a window. If being seen on VD really was EG’s attempt at alibi building, we all have to consider that her plan to disappear Lucas was already forming much earlier than the day/hours leading up to him vanishing. All my opinion, of course.


except Wednesday Feb 14th is the day EG claimed Lucas was with JO but Friday Feb 16 is the day she went to OG. although had the LL not seen him, maybe her plan was to play it off Lucas was with someone else on Friday too.
 
I just realized this whole time, my opinion has been both that EG lied about JO having Lucas on Valentines Day to set up (premed) and that she killed him in a fit of rage after finding out the LL saw him through the window. These two things just don't go together. So, now I'm even more confused and unsure of what I believe than ever.


They sort of can go together. A few weeks ago I was reading about people having thoughts of murder and making the plans for it in their head, some follow through but most don't.

EG could have been making those plans in her head and then the LL thing could have been something that made her lose her desire/ability to hurt Lucas without killing him.

What confuses me is that EG didn't seem to mind anyone seeing Lucas with bruises. What could have been different this time that stopped her taking Lucas to the ER and saying he fell? If it's fear that he might survive, she can technically wait until the next morning and claim it happened while she was asleep and he must have woken up in the night and .... From the VD example her lies don't seem to need to be very reasonable in her mind.

Thinking about it as I type it, one difference might be that this time she had lost her desire to hold back and this time she was willing to go for the kill. That in and of itself might change her internal ability to take him to the ER, even with a bunch of excuses.

I don't think most people are really thinking about things like decomp, I think mostly there are two main facets...one to get the body away from themselves/their home, and two to have the body out of sight of anyone passing by/combined with the need to be secretive and unobserved in the dump itself.

Even if EG was thinking about pointing the finger of suspicion onto Jamie, EG isn't Jamie, she's EG. So she can only go so far in this train of thought, so she might theoretically think of a place like near the hand-over point, or somewhere around El Dorado, but she's not looking for a place that Jamie's intimately familiar with per se, she's looking for a place that's loosely connected to JO but also a place that she knows or a place that just stands out to her as a good hiding place and it's maybe within a few miles of El Dorado? I think a place in El Dorado, or the vicinity, that EG is familiar with is fine, it doesn't have to be somewhere that Jamie is closely associated with, only a loose association for Jamie will do.

I really think that the necessity of removing the body is the prime motivator, not thinking about trying to get into the scapegoat's head, and I don't think that someone in the position of needing to dump a body can fully think through how to not point at themselves in their choice of place, I think the prime motivation is "get rid of the body/hide the body".

I do think that some form of premeditation ought to make someone more likely to want to do a good job of hiding the body, not so much dumping by the side of a road but wanting to find a hiding place. And looking at G maps of Wichita that seems to be a very hard thing to do. I would love it if someone could look around and look for all the possible dump sites and then look again and look at where you wouldn't dump a body (but still with the usual caveats of hidden, not feeling overlooked as you do the dump, and not physically visible to anyone waking or driving by. Big open fields and narrow tree lines just doesn't feel like it fits the bill, but I don't know what could?
 
Because she can't have both premeditated the murder and not premeditated the murder.

Excepting, that allowing the possibility that each are equally true and valid aspects to LH's fate, has led everyone down a new and strangely fitting path today.

Had not wanted to mention protracted organ failure manifestations but here we are. We've all see what occurs in congestive heart failure & months of ugliness there; and hinted among ourselves at how clear LH health deteriorated in recent months.

A perfectly acceptable solution to the random excuse about 'sharing her side', in which allows EG to both have reacted in desperation out of complete shock as well as aggressively planned Lucas demise and how to mitigate the consequences thereof.

JO had LH for VD is a bizarre thing to lie about... for us...

...because EG is not so much a person as collection of reflections based on what she wants from the world at any given time.

Just because it makes our heads hurt to fathom this woman's mentality & ways, doesn't mean we ought not try.
 
Not trying to beat a dead horse, so to speak, but is there proof the FaceTime including Lucas happened or is it possible that was a lie on both their parts?
No proof of this nature has been provided by LE or MSM that I've seen.
 
Not trying to beat a dead horse, so to speak, but is there proof the FaceTime including Lucas happened or is it possible that was a lie on both their parts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you, finally, someone else said it........

Now, please know, I am NOT doubting the word of our VI's. I am just questioning if they heard this from LE themselves, or was this little detail spoken to them directly from JH (or EG).
 
Thank you, finally, someone else said it........

Now, please know, I am NOT doubting the word of our VI's. I am just questioning if they heard this from LE themselves, or was this little detail spoken to them directly from JH (or EG).

i think its possible to speculate this and still match what the VIs have shared. i actually dont think JH knows what happened/has any involvement in Lucas disappearing and i think the LL saw him on Friday. i also think its possible, if EG has him wrapped around her finger this much and/or hes trying to cover for his neglectful parenting, its possible hes going along with an alleged facetime convo and following EGs lead on what to say or do since shes presenting herself as the victim to JH.

it also could be partially true, something like EG walked to his room and showed him Lucas was already sleeping/napping but he didnt actually talk to him.
 
Not trying to beat a dead horse, so to speak, but is there proof the FaceTime including Lucas happened or is it possible that was a lie on both their parts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am trusting what the VI has told us.
 
I am trusting what the VI has told us.

I’m not at a distrusting VI, just wondering if the information is based on what was said by both parents or is there a screenshot during facetime that shows both JH and Lucas in the screen? Because even if it shows a FaceTime occurred between EG and JH, that doesn’t necessarily mean that Lucas was truly seen and it could be a lie on both parents behalf.
I trust the VI’s implicitly! And am grateful for all that they share with us! Just curious if there was proof of Lucas being part of the FaceTime record shown? Hopefully that makes sense[emoji177]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
​I just had what Oprah would refer to as an a-ha moment with this case. Whether Emily noticed a precipitous decline in Lucas’ health in the days leading up to his disappearance or she was pre-meditating his demise, I think it’s safe to say that whatever was going on was already underway on Valentine’s Day. Here’s the a-ha moment: EG went to out in public to OG not to be cruel & neglectful of Lucas (although the she was very clearly that anyway), she went out to be seen WITHOUT HIM. She was putting her “JO had Lucas for VD” plan into full effect. She needed to be seen without him to “prove” Lucas was with his bio-mom. Of course, Lucas foiled that plan in a HUGE way when he was seen by the landlord ... home alone peeking out a window. If being seen on VD really was EG’s attempt at alibi building, we all have to consider that her plan to disappear Lucas was already forming much earlier than the day/hours leading up to him vanishing. All my opinion, of course.

I like the passing around of theories going on right now. I'm joining you in this corner. Thanks for this post.
 
well, both could still work. maybe Valentines Day was part of her original plan but something happened between wed-friday that caused her to take action/alter the plan after OG on Friday.

The LL?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
agreed. while im partial to the theory EGs abuse went too far on Lucas and i think premeditated is far fetched, im open to some version of premeditated. maybe she was aware her abuse could go very far and had a plan in the back of her mind what should we do *if* it came to that (and maybe on some sick level fantasized about it too).

its sick to think but maybe this wasnt her first close call with Lucas - maybe there were a few other times he became unconscious/she felt he was close to dying. so, she had a plan of who she would call, where she would go, how she would clean etc if needed - almost like having a go-bag.

maybe Lucas wasnt doing well Wednesday which is what prompted the Valentines Day lie/she thought she had to put her plan into action.

So, in this article it states that Emily told LE that Lucas had not seen his mom since December-
She apparently told JH the lie about Lucas’s mom having him on Vday.
Why lie to JH about this, but tell LE the truth?
The lie seems to have been told before he went missing. The question is WHY?? Looking at the major dates of abuse allegations and fight between her and JH, they seem to fall within a few days of major holidays. Mother’s Day, Valentines Day- why would she want to lie to him about Vday-did she not want him to know she was going to OG without him? Did he ask to speak to Lucas on VDay and she wouldn’t or couldn’t produce him? It almost sounds to me like she was punishing JH for being gone or Lucas was somewhere else- if he was somewhere else, why lie about it??
Hmmmmmmm
http://amp.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article208704089.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Seems as if watching Lucas was EG's "in" with JH, or at least she thought so. Lucas was her meal ticket, until she gave birth to their daughter. Whole new meal ticket to really seal the deal. Lucas was no longer needed once she had her daughter to snag JH. Lucas became disposable baggage, no longer necessary to sustain EG's relationship with JH. imo
Makes me consider again this was premeditated. So, if premeditated, where was she looking around prior to his missing?

This is what I have thought since the beginning. When I heard that Lucas said that Emily didn't like him since the baby came, it seemed to confirm what I had always thought. It makes me so sad to think it.
 
I’m not at a distrusting VI, just wondering if the information is based on what was said by both parents or is there a screenshot during facetime that shows both JH and Lucas in the screen? Because even if it shows a FaceTime occurred between EG and JH, that doesn’t necessarily mean that Lucas was truly seen and it could be a lie on both parents behalf.
I trust the VI’s implicitly! And am grateful for all that they share with us! Just curious if there was proof of Lucas being part of the FaceTime record shown? Hopefully that makes sense[emoji177]
Let me answer this with what was already stated:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...7-Feb-2018-5-*Arrest*&p=13953711#post13953711
She could have gone in the opposite direction and went into Kingman. There is a place off of Hwy 400 to drop a body into the water. Hwy 400 turns into E D Ave and then you turn onto Maine Street. And, you will see the river and the dam...

I read on the KAKE Facebook page that EG moved in their current residence on 02/07/18 and the neighbors had last seen Lucas on 02/11/18. Lucas had supposedly FaceTimed his dad two days before he was reported missing.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...7-Feb-2018-5-*Arrest*&p=13953726#post13953726
The second part of your quote, I snipped out, but that's being said by a cousin of Emily who has been hardcore defending her.
 
if lucas' health was quickly deteriorating and she wasnt seeking proper medical help, it seems possible he hit a low point Wednesday (why she puts the lie into action) but he was able to hang on for a few more days. then friday his health gets worse, possibly along with some medication/an additional beating from EG, which causes him to pass Friday. maybe she didnt want him to die which explains why she didnt kill him, the plan to frame JO was a last resort if he didnt survive one of her beatings.

that being said, i see your point. also, the scenario above is painting EG as an abuser who is aware of how severe her abuse is. while i think that may be possible, i think its also possible shes like "i didnt think it was that bad". so maybe the valentine's day lie wasnt about if Lucas were to pass but a way to cover her tracks for his current bruises & injuries. maybe death never even entered EGs mind regarding the valentine's day lie.

for example, if someone was coming by between wednesday - later in the week such as the boys and their dad for visiting (not sure what her long term plan was for explaining her and JH hadnt split), she had a hunch CPS would be by, the LL/new neighbors may see Lucas and go "omg is he OK", he needed to go back to school eventually, etc. as much as i think she was fine to drug Lucas and leave him home alone, she maybe knew she couldnt do this 24/7 for another week or so while he healed. so, if Lucas had particularly bad bruises/beatting, she felt she needed to lay the groundwork & say to people "oh those bruises happened earlier this week/wednesday with his mom, not under my care".

Great scenario!
MOO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Oh man, I am so thankful you dug this up for us and showed where that rumor started! So, it was never confirmed by one of our VI's that JH Facetimed with Lucas on the 15th? Damn, my head is spinning now.............This is why I questioned as to whether this was a fact or a rumor- I just couldn't remember where it originated from, but I thought one of our VI's confirmed this to have happened.

Oh and by the way, how would EG's cousin know that Lucas and JH Facetimed on the 15th? Was she there? *cough cough*
 
​I just had what Oprah would refer to as an a-ha moment with this case. Whether Emily noticed a precipitous decline in Lucas’ health in the days leading up to his disappearance or she was pre-meditating his demise, I think it’s safe to say that whatever was going on was already underway on Valentine’s Day. Here’s the a-ha moment: EG went to out in public to OG not to be cruel & neglectful of Lucas (although the she was very clearly that anyway), she went out to be seen WITHOUT HIM. She was putting her “JO had Lucas for VD” plan into full effect. She needed to be seen without him to “prove” Lucas was with his bio-mom. Of course, Lucas foiled that plan in a HUGE way when he was seen by the landlord ... home alone peeking out a window. If being seen on VD really was EG’s attempt at alibi building, we all have to consider that her plan to disappear Lucas was already forming much earlier than the day/hours leading up to him vanishing. All my opinion, of course.

Except that JH spoke with Lucas on chat the on the 15th so she couldn’t have rewound the dates with that in mind.
 
Oh man, I am so thankful you dug this up for us and showed where that rumor started! So, it was never confirmed by one of our VI's that JH Facetimed with Lucas on the 15th? Damn, my head is spinning now.............This is why I questioned as to whether this was a fact or a rumor- I just couldn't remember where it originated from, but I thought one of our VI's confirmed this to have happened.

Oh and by the way, how would EG's cousin know that Lucas and JH Facetimed on the 15th? Was she there? *cough cough*

I'm guilty of thinking that it was verified by a VI. This is why I wish statements from fb wouldn't be repeated on our threads.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
164
Guests online
1,997
Total visitors
2,161

Forum statistics

Threads
599,826
Messages
18,100,033
Members
230,934
Latest member
Littlebit62
Back
Top