Kyron's doctors appointment

[ami]

Each of us recalls certain things when we watch interviews, press conferences, etc. There are comments/statements that strike me as odd, for whatever reason, while other folks might not find them unusual. I couldn't help thinking that a child's need for so much sleep seemed excessive and wondered what the reason could be. Was it a household rule that Kyron had to go to bed at a specific time each night, or was the boy actually so tired that he needed this much sleep? Learning about the possibility of a seizure disorder today provided a possible explanation for this, but I have to wonder now why this was not looked into earlier by Kyron's parents. The comments about the long hours of sleeping along with Kyron staying in his bed until someone came to get him raises some questions for me. jmo

Perhaps, but I'm a parent and I'd characterize the 12 hours a night on the long side but not completely abnormal or worrisome. The staying in bed thing also just a quirk of an individual child... I don't know, I've read people here say that it could be a sign of controlling or abusive parents, being drugged, emotional problems, now seizures... it's so hard to know what's relevant.

 

[carbuff]

I imagine that Skyline's IEP process would be the same as ours. We quit taking referrals sometime in April because there is not enough time to do all of the required paperwork and testing before school is out.

In our district, neither ADHD or epilepsy qualify for an IEP as they are considered medical conditions. I have a feeling that is pretty standard across the US.

A medical condition could get a 504 plan, which is different than an IEP and much easier to accomplish as to receive special education services, the criteria are pretty stringent.

Whether or not he already has an IEP in place is anyone's guess, but there would not be enough time to have an IEP review June 11.

However, anyone in my district who can afford to can go to private faciities which may or may not be covered by insurance.

Or, we have free services for people who qualify for the services which have been funded by a donor. Portland may have those as well.

In our district, a lot of the testing goes on over the summer. I don't know whether that's in anticipation of fall approvals, or loose ends from the school year. A lot of special classes happen over the summer, too. Or did before the last round of budget cuts, anyway.

 

[human]

In our district, a lot of the testing goes on over the summer. I don't know whether that's in anticipation of fall approvals, or loose ends from the school year. A lot of special classes happen over the summer, too. Or did before the last round of budget cuts, anyway.

I guess we got cuts years ago already. We have very, very limited special education staff on board in the summer. It's been so long I forgot that we actually used to have special education classes in summer school.

There are schools in my state that have gone to the 4 day school week and my district was contemplating it.

I don't know how, but my state continues to be one of the top three in the US. for all kinds of test scores such as the SAT's, grad rate, etc.

 

[Jo in Calif]

I believe the kids were supposed to gather at nine and form the little groups to tour the projects.

I believe this is true, then class started at 10:00 that day and roll was taken. I don't believe any kind of roll was taken at 9:00.

 

[carbuff]

I guess we got cuts years ago already. We have very, very limited special education staff on board in the summer. It's been so long I forgot that we actually used to have special education classes in summer school.

There are schools in my state that have gone to the 4 day school week and my district was contemplating it.

I don't know how, but my state continues to be one of the top three in the US. for all kinds of test scores such as the SAT's, grad rate, etc.

MA hasn't been hit quite that hard. The cutbacks have been mostly in "enrichment" programs like music and art, and in transportation and sports. I've been surprised how little mention of budget issues there has been around Skyline school.

 

[Openmyeyes]

O/T I have discussed this with you before. We will raise your defense fund here if we determine after thousands of pages of discussion that you are innocent.

Perhaps we will have a poll on it.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::HBwhiteflag:

 

[BringKyronHome]

I imagine that Skyline's IEP process would be the same as ours. We quit taking referrals sometime in April because there is not enough time to do all of the required paperwork and testing before school is out.

In our district, neither ADHD or epilepsy qualify for an IEP as they are considered medical conditions. I have a feeling that is pretty standard across the US.

A medical condition could get a 504 plan, which is different than an IEP and much easier to accomplish as to receive special education services, the criteria are pretty stringent.

Whether or not he already has an IEP in place is anyone's guess, but there would not be enough time to have an IEP review June 11.

However, anyone in my district who can afford to can go to private faciities which may or may not be covered by insurance.

Or, we have free services for people who qualify for the services which have been funded by a donor. Portland may have those as well.

I don't know where you are from, but I belong to a couple SN groups and I have NEVER heard of not taking referals at anytime during the course of the school year - in fact, in many cases there are services that are provided right throught the summer, and SN staff are available for consultations as well as instruction.

In terms of the school doing the evaluation that may be true, but the school cannot prescribe meds, so their process is somewhat useless...it's helpful to pass along to a specialist, but that's about the extent of it.

My son currently remains on an IEP due to an ADHD diag...however there are few specialists that hang their hat on his diag...but all those involved with his development know that if the diag is removed so to will his services, so it remains because they know he needs them (his docs, his therapists, and the school).

Medical diags, or disabilities are generally handled under a 504 plan, not an IEP (these are for physiocal disabilities)...IEP's are for learning disabilities. At this point in time, my sons seizures are controlled so there is no way to use that as a basis for his LD...most believe we are dealing with the lingering side effects of a one time UNmanaged disorder....and that without extra help he will not 'catch-up'...so they 'accept' the closest thing that will allow the IEP to remain in affect, for without it there is little faith that he will get the support he needs. And there is no basis for an IEP for 'lingering issues.'

He was also once on the autism spectrum, but that was when his seizures were NOT controlled and before he was able to make progress with the extra help. So it's been pretty well established that the support is working.

I'm VERY confused about what your district is doing. I don't know if you have first hand experience (that is, a child with needs) but if you do I STRONGLY suggest you seek an advocate.

 

[human]

I don't know where you are from, but I belong to a couple SN groups and I have NEVER heard of not taking referals at anytime during the course of the school year - in fact, in many cases there are services that are provided right throught the summer, and SN staff are available for consultations as well as instruction.

In terms of the school doing the evaluation that may be true, but the school cannot prescribe meds, so their process is somewhat useless...it's helpful to pass along to a specialist, but that's about the extent of it.

My son currently remains on an IEP due to an ADHD diag...however there are few specialists that hang their hat on his diag...but all those involved with his development know that if the diag is removed so to will his services, so it remains because they know he needs them (his docs, his therapists, and the school).

Medical diags, or disabilities are generally handled under a 504 plan, not an IEP (these are for physiocal disabilities)...IEP's are for learning disabilities. At this point in time, my sons seizures are controlled so there is no way to use that as a basis for his LD...most believe we are dealing with the lingering side effects of a one time UNmanaged disorder....and that without extra help he will not 'catch-up'...so they 'accept' the closest thing that will allow the IEP to remain in affect, for without it there is little faith that he will get the support he needs. And there is no basis for an IEP for 'lingering issues.'

He was also once on the autism spectrum, but that was when his seizures were NOT controlled and before he was able to make progress with the extra help. So it's been pretty well established that the support is working.

I'm VERY confused about what your district is doing. I don't know if you have first hand experience (that is, a child with needs) but if you do I STRONGLY suggest you seek an advocate.

I am a teacher. A teacher of 30 years. I can guarantee you that this is the way that it works on my district.

You are lucky where you live because a child with only ADHD diagnosis does not get an IEP in my district-only a 504 if a parent requests it.

If the ADHD is combined with a diagnosed learning disability, then that is a whole different ballgame.

We have very very little special education services during the summer. It's called "unfunded mandates" and there simply is no money.

IEP's in our district are given for the Federally defined special education categories. ADHD is considered a medical condition. It is only diagnosed here by a psychiatrist because they can prescribe the meds for it.

 

[grandmaj]

Hello Peeps. Back on topic please. Kyron's seizures ............... thanks.

 

[Mamietwo]

Yes.

I meant that the way Kaine phrased that comment about working with the school on his listening skills, just struck me as maybe not really understanding there might be a medical issue. Totally an impression on my part.

I agree, carbuff! And his comment and reaction was completely normal, in my opinion. I don't know many parents that immediately think there is something really wrong with their child physically or mentally. The thought process in the beginning is that he's just being a boy. Kyron is 7 years old and "all boy" from what is known, so a normal assumption and comment from his father, I think.

 

[carbuff]

I agree, carbuff! And his comment and reaction was completely normal, in my opinion. I don't know many parents that immediately think there is something really wrong with their child physically or mentally. The thought process in the beginning is that he's just being a boy. Kyron is 7 years old and "all boy" from what is known, so a normal assumption and comment from his father, I think.

Possibly. It struck me as a bit harsh if the situation had already progressed to paperwork, but as you point out, there would be an adjustment period. And until there was a diagnosis, it would be a bit hard to know what to adjust to. But the harsher reaction isn't uncommon, either -- I've seen more than one of my son's friends who were in similar situations who were punished and belittled for conditions that weren't their fault. "He's old enough to learn some self control." "If he doesn't pay attention, he'll feel the back of my hand." That sort of s***.

 

[AbbieNormal]

If he was really supposedly having "seizures" wouldn't that have been mentioned in the beginning to the public when giving info about Kyron when he first went missing? I have read lots of press releases where parents say the child has "XYZ" disease or disorder, why didn't they mention Kyron "might" have mini seizures? Did KH and DY even know? Seems like that was something she would have told Kaine at least, and DY too since DY was getting Kyron for a few days after school that day. Something DY should know to look for, you know?

 

[BeanE]

If he was really supposedly having "seizures" wouldn't that have been mentioned in the beginning to the public when giving info about Kyron when he first went missing? I have read lots of press releases where parents say the child has "XYZ" disease or disorder, why didn't they mention Kyron "might" have mini seizures? Did KH and DY even know? Seems like that was something she would have told Kaine at least, and DY too since DY was getting Kyron for a few days after school that day. Something DY should know to look for, you know?

BBM. I doubt it since it was weeks until anyone bothered to mention that he's allergic to bee stings! Or even bothered to mention that mark on his forehead that appears when he's upset. So brand new undiagnosed symptoms that just *might possibly* be seizures? Nah. Nobody would have bothered mentioning that either.

 

[cypress]

If he was really supposedly having "seizures" wouldn't that have been mentioned in the beginning to the public when giving info about Kyron when he first went missing? I have read lots of press releases where parents say the child has "XYZ" disease or disorder, why didn't they mention Kyron "might" have mini seizures? Did KH and DY even know? Seems like that was something she would have told Kaine at least, and DY too since DY was getting Kyron for a few days after school that day. Something DY should know to look for, you know?

Well, DY and KH did mention that Kyron was having trouble following directions, with Kaine assuming when Kyron was not on the bus that he was confused about the specifics of the pick-up that day. These statements are not totally dissimilar from the picture Terri paints in her e-mail, although the bio parents don't refer to a specific condition or medical reason for Kyron's behavior.

 

[cypress]

Also, is it possible that Kaine was resistant to the idea that something was wrong with Kyron, and Terri made the doctor's appointment without his knowledge?

The doctor's appointment should be easy enough to confirm, even if Terri made the appointment without Kaine's knowledge. Kaine has always been a bit weirdly cagey about the appointment, IMHO, and there are vague references to whatever was going on with Kyron being more discipline/behavior related issues. What if Terri believed otherwise?

Honestly, whether she made up the symptoms or not, I don't believe Terri would make up a fake doctor's appointment and then fail to schedule it, and there are other indications, by the bio parents, that something was amiss with Kyron.

 

[AbbieNormal]

That he wasn't listening in school?

It may have been another sign of possible seizure activity.

Or ADD. Or, he was very smart and the classwork bored him, or maybe he was a discipline problem.
As for the 12 hrs of sleep, maybe he was just put to bed early to "get him out of the way". I am still stuck on "he sat in bed every morning till he was told to get out of bed or was come and gotten from bed." THAT is not normal for a child his age. Only children including my own I have ever been around that stayed in their bed until they were come and gotten were in a crib that they couldn't climb out of. JMO Makes me wonder if the discipline in that home wasn't rather harsh. Maybe it was a "rule" for him to stay in bed until he was come and gotten?
We have no idea what the discipline was in that home. Perhaps Kaine as well as Terri wanted Kyron and Baby K in bed at a very early hour so they would have some peace and quiet. There's no telling what some parents do.
I don't know any parents who require or expect their child to sleep 12 hours.

IMO Terri is making up the seizure activity, or we would have heard about it very early on when everyone was looking for him. Its also never mentioned by KH or DY. Did Terri not share that info w/ them? All very odd to me, IMO.

abbie

 

[Calliope]

Or ADD. Or, he was very smart and the classwork bored him, or maybe he was a discipline problem.
As for the 12 hrs of sleep, maybe he was just put to bed early to "get him out of the way". I am still stuck on "he sat in bed every morning till he was told to get out of bed or was come and gotten from bed." THAT is not normal for a child his age. Only children including my own I have ever been around that stayed in their bed until they were come and gotten were in a crib that they couldn't climb out of. JMO Makes me wonder if the discipline in that home wasn't rather harsh. Maybe it was a "rule" for him to stay in bed until he was come and gotten?
We have no idea what the discipline was in that home. Perhaps Kaine as well as Terri wanted Kyron and Baby K in bed at a very early hour so they would have some peace and quiet. There's no telling what some parents do.
I don't know any parents who require or expect their child to sleep 12 hours.

IMO Terri is making up the seizure activity, or we would have heard about it very early on when everyone was looking for him. Its also never mentioned by KH or DY. Did Terri not share that info w/ them? All very odd to me, IMO.

abbie

bbm

That's my feeling as well.

 

[carbuff]

Also, is it possible that Kaine was resistant to the idea that something was wrong with Kyron, and Terri made the doctor's appointment without his knowledge?

The doctor's appointment should be easy enough to confirm, even if Terri made the appointment without Kaine's knowledge. Kaine has always been a bit weirdly cagey about the appointment, IMHO, and there are vague references to whatever was going on with Kyron being more discipline/behavior related issues. What if Terri believed otherwise?

Honestly, whether she made up the symptoms or not, I don't believe Terri would make up a fake doctor's appointment and then fail to schedule it, and there are other indications, by the bio parents, that something was amiss with Kyron.

That seems like an entirely plausible reading of the situation.

I can see why they wouldn't want to let that out to the public. It probably has no bearing on where Kyron is or what happened.

 

[Etilema]

Or ADD. Or, he was very smart and the classwork bored him, or maybe he was a discipline problem.
As for the 12 hrs of sleep, maybe he was just put to bed early to "get him out of the way". I am still stuck on "he sat in bed every morning till he was told to get out of bed or was come and gotten from bed." THAT is not normal for a child his age. Only children including my own I have ever been around that stayed in their bed until they were come and gotten were in a crib that they couldn't climb out of. JMO Makes me wonder if the discipline in that home wasn't rather harsh. Maybe it was a "rule" for him to stay in bed until he was come and gotten?
We have no idea what the discipline was in that home. Perhaps Kaine as well as Terri wanted Kyron and Baby K in bed at a very early hour so they would have some peace and quiet. There's no telling what some parents do.
I don't know any parents who require or expect their child to sleep 12 hours.

IMO Terri is making up the seizure activity, or we would have heard about it very early on when everyone was looking for him. Its also never mentioned by KH or DY. Did Terri not share that info w/ them? All very odd to me, IMO.

abbie

I was also struck by the "12 hours" thing. Because what time must he go to bed if he sleeps that long? The school bell apparently rings at 8:45. I would imagine he could catch the bus no later than 8:15, to be there when the school opens at 8:35. So let's say he wakes up at 7:30. That means he goes to bed at 7:30? Yes, it's true that people often do put their kids to bed early to get some peace in the evenings.

But maybe he doesn't sleep the full 12 hours. He could stay awake in bed for an hour or two, or maybe wakes up at 5:30 and "waits to be gotten out of bed"? (If he does wake up extra early, that could be a legitimate reason for having a rule that he wait in his room. They wouldn't want him either waking them up or wandering the house unsupervised.)

JMO

 

[Etilema]

That seems like an entirely plausible reading of the situation.

I can see why they wouldn't want to let that out to the public. It probably has no bearing on where Kyron is or what happened.

If she didn't really make such an appointment, or if she made it totally unknown to the bio-parents and/or in the absence of any such symptoms, it could point to a plan.

If there really was such an appointment, on the basis of agreed-upon symptoms (perhaps even without the KH knowing about it), it would be less of an issue, other than to give support to TH's not being involved.