Kyron's doctors appointment

[Mamietwo]

Well, as much as I think Terri is guilty of withholding info, I do understand IF the seizures were real how she could have described the weird behavior to a doctor and the doc could have casually said, "Well it could be anything - it might be absent seizures or just normal spacey kid stuff... .why don't you make an appointment and we'll check him out." --- which could possibly translate to: the doc thinks it might be seizures.

(snipped)

And see, this is one reason why doctors don't diagnose over the phone. The doc could have said it could be anything from A to Z, but let's not think it's Z until I get a chance to see him. Then again, the doctor may not have said anything about seizures at all. But, if the doctor described them as absent seizures, why didn't Terri?

 

[A_News_Junkie]

I have always thought Kyron was poisoned, last night someone on here

mentioned Foxglove, so I googled Foxglove+ oregon+ dede.

I found a post by gooddkittie, whose name is dede in portand. The

post has been edited. But it is under a list of poison plants in the NW.

I am trying to post a link, its not working. I have permission

to post this.

It is thread 4941. will try to link, again.

List of plants poisonous to birds - Tailfeathers Bird Community

I think this is the page she is talking about but the poster has possibly edited it to say this post is 4 years old. [ame="http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/community/showthread.php?t=4941"]List of plants poisonous to birds - Tailfeathers Bird Community[/ame]
Also, the name is DeeDee not Dede and the user name is [ame="http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/community/member.php?u=7629"]Tailfeathers Bird Community[/ame]
I am not thinking this is related - is this what you were talking about, Delany?

 

[Mamietwo]

I don't think she's talking about big noticeable seizures. It sounds like she means the kind of microseizure that causes a kid to appear to space out for a second or two. It's a not uncommon learning disability that makes it hard for kids to follow directions because the static in their brain is drowning out parts of sentences etc. My co-worker's daughter had it. They estimate that she might have been having dozens of microseizures per second, in groups several times a day -- making it difficult for her to even speak while they were going on -- but most cases aren't that severe. It took quite some time, with behavior studies, EEG, and other tests, to get a diagnosis.

If you don't mind my asking, how old was she at the time, and did she ever get better to where she had them totally controlled with medication? Reason I ask is because I have a friend in ID that her son had hundreds per day, she even had him on a ketogenic diet (this was when he was about 16 months old).

The telling thing for me, in all this, is if Kaine was made aware that it could be something neurological going on with Kyron, the way that Terri is trying to make it sound like with what she said the doctor thought it could be. She put t in an email----so did she put it in her husband's ears as well?

 

[human]

What TMH was doing was diagnosing, which laypeople are prone to do. I do it all the time! But for a professional, there's quite a path between the initial presentation of a problem ("my kid is doing X, is this normal?") and a diagnosis ("your child does X because of condition Y.")

What a good physician would want, though, is to gather descriptions of Kyron's behaviour from as many sources as possible in order to plan out which way to go first in arriving at a diagnosis.

So yes, I would expect Kyron's doctor to want the teacher to fill out a questionnaire about his behaviour while under the teacher's supervision.

As a teacher who was involved just last spring with this (but not my student), the paperwork a teacher would fill out for seizures I truly feel would have to be done in conjunction with the school nurse or psychologist.

The documentation for seizures when they are absence is difficult and a person has to be observing a particular child only.

I'm not saying that Terri did not have an appointment or that she didn't give the teacher paperwork. But it's a much bigger deal than just filling out a form.

 

[PDXMom]

Has anyone explored the possibility of Ketamine - or "Special K" - a drug used by some bodybuilders?
http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ketamine/effects.htm

 

[eyes4crime]

There has been a lot of talk about horses, riding, horse farm, etc. Kaine suggested searching an area near stables, I think. I wonder if TH, DDS, or someone else had access to veterinary drugs?

What an awful thought!

 

[Donjeta]

I think this is the page she is talking about but the poster has possibly edited it to say this post is 4 years old. List of plants poisonous to birds - Tailfeathers Bird Community
Also, the name is DeeDee not Dede and the user name is Tailfeathers Bird Community
I am not thinking this is related - is this what you were talking about, Delany?

I didn't see anything to suggest it was edited. The thread was started in 2004. Then in 2008 someone posts to say thank you for the good info, and the person from Portland comments that the thread is four year old and means that it's no use dragging up 4 year old threads for thank yous. The original poster might be long gone from the board by then.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

What an awful thought!

That is an awful thought.

Sad to say, it crossed my mind as well. We have access to a ton of prescription drugs (intended for veterinarian use only- though many are 'human' class drugs) because our vet knows us and we have an animal-focused business.

For example, I just picked up a bottle of 900 50mg pills of Tramadol for a dog with joint pain. No pharmacy, no signing, nothing. Just walk into the vet and he fills them for us.

Totally an abusable drug for humans.

 

[carbuff]

If you don't mind my asking, how old was she at the time, and did she ever get better to where she had them totally controlled with medication? Reason I ask is because I have a friend in ID that her son had hundreds per day, she even had him on a ketogenic diet (this was when he was about 16 months old).

The telling thing for me, in all this, is if Kaine was made aware that it could be something neurological going on with Kyron, the way that Terri is trying to make it sound like with what she said the doctor thought it could be. She put t in an email----so did she put it in her husband's ears as well?

My co-worker's daughter was in preschool, I believe, but was doing very poorly and had lots of behavioral and other issues as well as inability to follow directions, trouble cooperating, etc. The last I heard, she was doing fairly well on medication, though it wasn't totally controlled. I haven't seen her in several years, since I left that company, so I'm afraid I can't give you up to date information.

Kaine doesn't strike me as having a lot of patience to deal with this kind of issue. Assuming "sources" are accurate -- a big assumption, I know -- Terri doesn't sound like she understands what the doctor told her, so when she tries to repeat it to a third party, she gets it wrong in a lot of different way.

I hope your friend's daughter finds something that works. It's a very difficult problem.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Has anyone explored the possibility of Ketamine - or "Special K" - a drug used by some bodybuilders?
http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ketamine/effects.htm

Strange how "someone" referred to Kyron as "Special K" in the hinky message on the Wall of Hope. Makes me wonder if the author knew about the drug or was attempting to suggest its use in the home. jmo

 

[human]

If you know that your precious step son may have issues with seizures, do you leave him in a chaotic atmosphere off to walk to his classroom alone?

 

[carbuff]

If you know that your precious step son may have issues with seizures, do you leave him in a chaotic atmosphere off to walk to his classroom alone?

If they're the microseizures, yeah, quite possibly. They don't cause loss of consciousness or anything, just difficulty concentrating or reading.

 

[human]

If they're the microseizures, yeah, quite possibly. They don't cause loss of consciousness or anything, just difficulty concentrating or reading.

In HER OWN email, she said that he would go into a room and come back out in a daze. I am paraphrasing here because I have to go.

Her comments are what alerted me to what????

Absence may cause problems in school with subject matter, but if it is unknown what is going on and what may happen to cause these, it may very well be chaos.

I am sure that absence probably would cause issues in an adult, like if the adult was driving, for example.

If it was my child, I would be keeping a close eye on any situation until the doctor told me information.

I have observed absence in children. The child is not in our world for the time period.

 

[carbuff]

In HER OWN email, she said that he would go into a room and come back out in a daze. I am paraphrasing here because I have to go.

Her comments are what alerted me to what????

Absence may cause problems in school with subject matter, but if it is unknown what is going on and what may happen to cause these, it may very well be chaos.

I am sure that absence probably would cause issues in an adult, like if the adult was driving, for example.

If it was my child, I would be keeping a close eye on any situation until the doctor told me information.

I have observed absence in children. The child is not in our world for the time period.

Good point. I guess I am assuming that she was exaggerating.

But if she's not -- well, does that mean he did get in a daze and just wander into someplace he shouldn't? And nobody can tell the truth because there's nothing to tell?

 

[fabvab]

My first reaction and my own take on this email is that it was sent to a "news source" in hopes that it would be leaked. She gives so much info and so much detail. I hope it is okay to say this. And it is MOO. Plus...I can't imagine being able to send such a lengthy detailed email in the early days of this tragic event.

Plus...if Kyron had been having these seizure type episodes...wouldn't that have come out early on. Wouldn't they have said that he could have a medical condition that could cause him to wander...or to black out...???

.

 

[txsvicki]

Kyron would have been sent for tests if a doctor thought he might be having seizures. He'd have been hooked up to electrodes and lay there about an hour, possibly even for hours while sleeping to make sure. No doctor would go only by some teacher's questionairre, he'd be tested to confirm seizures. I think ADD and possible seizures was being set up for some reason. ADD can cause kids to act like they're spaced out sometimes. I've been through all that and trying to get a 6 year old to lie still for the tests.

 

[Calliope]

I whole heartedly second(havent read thru entire thread so there could me many others that have already posted that they totally agree w/Aedrys' above post)every detail that Aedrys has so very perfectly laid out the almost "identical" details of Terri's description of the possible mini-seizures vs. WebMD's details... And wow! is about all I can say....

Just as the MMC[Mystery Male Chaperone] in it's appropriate thread I posted it to be THE LARGEST, MOST OBVIOUS "RED HERRING" THUS FAR IN THIS CASE, I too see this as equally obvious.JMO.

Now breaking down each of the issues that Terri outlined&detailed in her email it is becoming more&more IMO evident of the pre-meditation and planned "red herrings". JMO.

ETA~ I am betting that when all the evidence is released upon going to trial that they will have found on the computers this exact webMD page[quoted above]. No doubt in my mind, tho I do realize what Terri's rebuttal will be ~ "of course I looked it up on WebMD as I thought my stepson whom I loved so much was suffering from these type seizures" (ugghh! and arrggh! makes me sick!)

Why make you sick?

If a doctor told you he suspected your child had [fill in the blank], would you go online to look up the condition, symptoms, treatments, etc.?

 

[Calliope]

Question re: the possible seizure disorder. During their various interviews on June 25, Desiree and Kaine mentioned that Kyron often slept 12+ hours nightly. I realize that some children require more sleep than others, but this seemed like an awful lot of time spent sleeping for this little guy. Could the need for copious amounts of sleep be related to seizures? TIA

ah good point. someone on this thread (or the email one that's locked) said their child experienced sleep disturbance d/t partial seizures occurring at night.

 

[Calliope]

"The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt. I said I was going to look at other exhibits – how do you mess that up?"

I wonder how Terri knew that this was the sentence that the teacher "misheard"?

So Terri goes to the science fair, hangs out with Kyron, speaks to a teacher or two about random things and at some point says she's going to look at other exhibits (a social nothing of a sentence you might say when you want to move on from a conversation) --- how does Terri know that the teacher confused "looking at other exhibits" with a comment about a doctors appointment?

Wouldn't Terri instead have said in the email, "for some reason the teacher thought I was taking Kyron to the doctor - I don't know where she got that idea."

IMO, from the school and teacher when Kyron came up missing.

 

[cluciano63]

It's possible that D&K did know something about a medical issue with Kyron but did not want it mentioned as they did not want anyone to think he just wandered off; they seemed pretty determined that someone "took" him pretty early on. LE never would say he did not have any medical conditions, or that he did. That was a "I can't comment on that", if I remember correctly.