LA - Mickey Shunick, 21, Lafayette 19 May 2012 - #26

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm having a visceral reaction to the news about the horse. I'm not sure why but when I read it, I felt as if I had been stabbed.

Do people really want to get to the truth of what happened to Mickey? Or would you rather stay on a one track path of abduction or accident or she's in the witness protection program or sold as a sex slave or she got tired of her great life so she ran away or she's sitting in someone's basement or whatever unlikely excuse someone can thing of - she's stuck in the underneath of a car.

This is so frustrating. We know someone at the stables was on the outs with her. Doesn't that warrant at least a nod?

So what this really boils down to is that Brettly never said anyone was on the outs with Mickey at the stables?

Woe.be.gone's response to kgeaux ~

Patience has never been my greatest virtue. I admit that. Don't have any drugs available to calm my nerves so I'll try to answer this the best I can without causing any trouble.

For all the peeps who have been here reading ALL the same posts I've been reading, who don't seem to remember that there's an undisclosed text that MC received,
or that BW said he has a former gf who works at the stables and that he, himself, worked at the stables for a time,
and that is where he got to know Mickey better who has been affiliated with the stables since she was eight years old,
this is my line of thought.
BW spoke of his ex gf who is also a co-worker of Mickey's. He also said that his ex gf and Mickey had a falling out. Because all three of them had worked at the stables at one time and one of them was BW's ex gf who still works at the stables, I was able to put the three together and figure out there may be trouble in MS's life in more than one area.
Who is at the center of the trouble? This, I guess, is what people are trying to force me to say.
I stand by my remark that BW implied that MS was on the outs with somebody at the stables.

So what? Peeps get on each other's nerves for different reasons all the time. Kind of like here but that doesn't mean you would think someone would harm somebody else or go out to get them. I wouldn't, I'd move on which is what MS was planning to do. Guess what?

Some people cannot let go of perceived injustices and plot revenge. I know we shouldn't think this or we can't believe this or how can one (me) say this but, if you've ever had someone tell a lie about you that you know is the furthest thing from the truth for the purpose of smearing you because you were more popular or whatever, then maybe you'd know it happens. There are people who can't stand to see other people excell and instead of working on themselves, they work at tearing other people down. This happens surrounding people getting attention or it happens when good things happen to people other than themselves.
When I was young I had both happen to me - jealous other girl lying about what I told the man she wanted. She tried to make sure he hated me. He wanted in her pants so he acted as if he believed her and, whether he did or not, I felt betrayed. Not only was I falsely accused but just the idea of the outright lie burned my butt. The happy ending, I'm not proud of this, but he got that girl and I was told years later that he was often seen in a local bar picking up other women. That made me feel good. Remember, she had told bald faced lies about me because she perceived me as a threat. She was the recipient of divine reciprocity.

Another time, I received a promotion at work where I'd go to headquaters 3x a week to do jobs. This exposed me to more opportunities. Three old ladies (age 40 and above - I'm in my 50's now), created such a ruckess because they felt they were more deserving. How did I feel? It wasn't my fault management picked me. I felt hurt and was uncomfortable when I walked into my original workplace area knowing that they were tearing me down.

In conclusion, life teaches us things through our experiences. It shows us how people CAN be and sometimes are. And it shows you who you are and to be proud that you don't operate that way. Yet you know, as much as you hate it, people are out there who are spiteful, vindictive and who are willing to hurt others for their own benefit.

```````````````````````````

Posted by kgeaus - If that is true, you might want to delete your post that says BW said so.

No, I won't delete my post because it is true but wasn't a direct statement. You have to listen to all of BW's remarks and draw the conclusion.
If person A is the same as person B, they are the same person.

kgeaus comment is the post that triggered my post. It ended up at the bottom as I must not have scrolled down far enough prior to my response.

 

[kjnmom]

With regards to whether the picture of the truck shows MS under it.

There's more then one person on here, including myself, who are not ready to dismiss the idea that the photo could indeed show MS under it. I realize many of you discount the idea as completely ridiculous, but not all of us do. That being said, I don't think majority rules on this thread as far as what we can and can't discuss. If a few of us would like to discuss it, it would be nice for others who think it is a worthless subject to just ignore the posts regarding it...instead our posts are being treated as though our thoughts are somehow intruding on your thread, that is not our goal. We just see things differently, and I don't feel too great about being laughed at about it when I am here for the same reasons as you...to find Mickey.
My opinion only.

I agree. Everyone has a right to their opinion. Scroll to the top of each page and there is this message from WS:
Missing Forum Discussion This is the place for case discussion and opinion regarding those who are missing.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Violent death. I don't want to give too many details so people don't sleuth him.

Thanks...I didn't mean to be nosy, I just wanted to know if the child was located dead or, if alive, terribly changed physically or mentally/emotionally. I think others have given you some good ideas about why the individual might engage in the "searching" behavior, so I would like to just think over why he may lie about it.

My first thought was that he may want to conceal it because he feels ashamed of the behavior, or at least believes that it is not acceptable to others. As someone with OCPD, which my friends sometimes refer to as "obsessive checking and perseveration disorder," I can tell you for sure that I have had much experience with this. Sometimes it is just too much to admit to others or even myself that I do certain things just because I feel compelled to, so I either deny that I did it (like putting my papers in a certain order) or pretend that I forgot I didn't have to do it (like making unnecessary graphs in a spreadsheet). Both these examples, I get frustrated with myself because I've wasted time that I needed to spend elsewhere, and yes to a certain extent I'm embarrassed that I keep doing work that I've been clearly and repeatedly told is unnecessary. So it is sometimes easier to pretend that it took me a reallllly long time to make 3 or 4 graphs than to admit that I did a bunch of extra work because I felt like if I didn't I would be incomplete. I get that these are trivial examples, especially since as I said my friends are aware of these behaviors and generally accept them as part of my general eccentricities. but maybe this guy feels ashamed or otherwise unwilling to acknowledge that he spends his time driving around the middle of nowhere, lost in thought or in the memories.

Second thought is that maybe he genuinely does lose track of time and place when he's "searching in the middle of nowhere." How many of us have to think about our route home from work if we've taken it every day for years? How many times have we arrived at home after following a well-known route and can't answer specific, easy questions about what we saw or heard along the way? I do it all the time! Especially if he's lost inside his head I'd imagine it could be true for him.

:dunno: Just some thoughts.

 

[Boudin]

It's not. Nor do her and Mickey resemble each other. But they were around the same age and both small

Perhaps he has seen MS riding late at night and kidnapped her- not to harm her, but to protect her and keep her safe from harm-something he couldn't do with his own child.

 

[Artis]

I've never heard of a parent of a missing person becoming the murderer of another missing person, but I suppose it's possible. I do know of at least one sibling of a missing child who went on to abduct and murder at least 3 people - Cary Stayner.

Oh, yeah! That was so bizarre.

 

[who knew?]

With regards to whether the picture of the truck shows MS under it.

There's more then one person on here, including myself, who are not ready to dismiss the idea that the photo could indeed show MS under it. I realize many of you discount the idea as completely ridiculous, but not all of us do. That being said, I don't think majority rules on this thread as far as what we can and can't discuss. If a few of us would like to discuss it, it would be nice for others who think it is a worthless subject to just ignore the posts regarding it...instead our posts are being treated as though our thoughts are somehow intruding on your thread, that is not our goal. We just see things differently, and I don't feel too great about being laughed at about it when I am here for the same reasons as you...to find Mickey.
My opinion only.

done.... discuss away.

 

[A.C.I]

I could totally see a person who went through having a child abducted (and killed, ACI?) having PSTD and Mickey's case triggering the PTSD and that person repeating the behavior (searching) they engaged in when their own child went missing. That is a long way from turning into an abductor after one's child is abducted. I've never heard of such a thing. Whoever took Mickey has been a sociopath/psychopath since childhood. People don't just go from normal to sociopath/psychopath.

Im not suggesting an instant mental transformation. It was 10 years ago and mental issues run in the family.

 

[A.C.I]

I think you already gave too many details...

No I haven't. But if that's the case I'll just delete everything and let's move along

 

[chicken fried]

With regards to whether the picture of the truck shows MS under it.

There's more then one person on here, including myself, who are not ready to dismiss the idea that the photo could indeed show MS under it. I realize many of you discount the idea as completely ridiculous, but not all of us do. That being said, I don't think majority rules on this thread as far as what we can and can't discuss. If a few of us would like to discuss it, it would be nice for others who think it is a worthless subject to just ignore the posts regarding it...instead our posts are being treated as though our thoughts are somehow intruding on your thread, that is not our goal. We just see things differently, and I don't feel too great about being laughed at about it when I am here for the same reasons as you...to find Mickey.
My opinion only.

For my own self, I was rebutting your argument with what I consider logic, and not attacking you personally. You have the right to post it, but I also have the right to rebut it. If we're not allowed to rebut arguments, then I am unclear about the purpose of this board. Allowing theories to stand without rebuttal results in innumerable theories that take up investigators' time. Vetting is good, IMO.
:twocents:

 

[A.C.I]

Thanks...I didn't mean to be nosy, I just wanted to know if the child was located dead or, if alive, terribly changed physically or mentally/emotionally. I think others have given you some good ideas about why the individual might engage in the "searching" behavior, so I would like to just think over why he may lie about it.

My first thought was that he may want to conceal it because he feels ashamed of the behavior, or at least believes that it is not acceptable to others. As someone with OCPD, which my friends sometimes refer to as "obsessive checking and perseveration disorder," I can tell you for sure that I have had much experience with this. Sometimes it is just too much to admit to others or even myself that I do certain things just because I feel compelled to, so I either deny that I did it (like putting my papers in a certain order) or pretend that I forgot I didn't have to do it (like making unnecessary graphs in a spreadsheet). Both these examples, I get frustrated with myself because I've wasted time that I needed to spend elsewhere, and yes to a certain extent I'm embarrassed that I keep doing work that I've been clearly and repeatedly told is unnecessary. So it is sometimes easier to pretend that it took me a reallllly long time to make 3 or 4 graphs than to admit that I did a bunch of extra work because I felt like if I didn't I would be incomplete. I get that these are trivial examples, especially since as I said my friends are aware of these behaviors and generally accept them as part of my general eccentricities. but maybe this guy feels ashamed or otherwise unwilling to acknowledge that he spends his time driving around the middle of nowhere, lost in thought or in the memories.

Second thought is that maybe he genuinely does lose track of time and place when he's "searching in the middle of nowhere." How many of us have to think about our route home from work if we've taken it every day for years? How many times have we arrived at home after following a well-known route and can't answer specific, easy questions about what we saw or heard along the way? I do it all the time! Especially if he's lost inside his head I'd imagine it could be true for him.

:dunno: Just some thoughts.

:goodpost:

 

[Artis]

No link. The media doesn't go around revealing every search location, that could hinder the investigation. Obviously they did talk about it after the bike was found there.

Thanks, lindsay. I didn't know that WB was searched before the bike was found.

 

[A.C.I]

Thanks so much for giving your opinion on this one!

I also was thinking, specifically with regards to why he might feel compelled to search on his own but not join volunteer searches, perhaps he knows or suspects that he could not emotionally handle the latter. We've seen how Mickey's case has captured so many hearts; I think it's not a leap to imagine that, just like we do, he desperately wants to help her and her family. But the whole atmosphere might be too painful. Were there volunteer searches for his child? Did he interact with volunteer or professional (LE or otherwise) searchers when his child was missing? sometimes a single word, a sound, a smell can evoke powerful memories that a person thought were dealt with long ago.

The search efforts were similar

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Thanks for your input. But remember it was 10 years ago. Not exactly recent. And also mental illness runs in the family.

Also, not the type of person you would see out at the time of night. Thats why I first noticed him. And then the description Patterson gave came out and it matched up.

I understand the wanting to help, and the searching. But driving circles in the middle of nowhere an hour out of town isn't exactly searching. But then lying about that, being at the scene of where evidence was found the day before it was found, his mental state I observed while talking to him, and then the high zoom telephoto lenses are what make me suspicious.

Not sure about the high zoom lenses. :waitasec: Hm.

 

[jacksonsquare]

What is the description Patterson gave?

 

[CajunSarah]

What is the description Patterson gave?

Wondering the same thing. And who is Patterson?

 

[Billiam]

A.C.I.,

I got the opportunity to meet many great people while searching these last weeks. None seemed more determined than a man whose daughter was abducted years earlier. He shared his experience with me on the way to WB for a search and I was moved. IMO your POI could be fairly normal in coping with his past experiences. Afterall, many people who suffer traumatic experiences gravitate towards reliving their trauma, or correcting it. His lying can simply prove insecurity in his coping mechanisms.

 

[Artis]

So what this really boils down to is that Brettly never said anyone was on the outs with Mickey at the stables?

Woe.be.gone's response to kgeaux ~

Patience has never been my greatest virtue. I admit that. Don't have any drugs available to calm my nerves so I'll try to answer this the best I can without causing any trouble.

For all the peeps who have been here reading ALL the same posts I've been reading, who don't seem to remember that there's an undisclosed text that MC received,
or that BW said he has a former gf who works at the stables and that he, himself, worked at the stables for a time,
and that is where he got to know Mickey better who has been affiliated with the stables since she was eight years old,
this is my line of thought.
BW spoke of his ex gf who is also a co-worker of Mickey's. He also said that his ex gf and Mickey had a falling out. Because all three of them had worked at the stables at one time and one of them was BW's ex gf who still works at the stables, I was able to put the three together and figure out there may be trouble in MS's life in more than one area.
Who is at the center of the trouble? This, I guess, is what people are trying to force me to say.
I stand by my remark that BW implied that MS was on the outs with somebody at the stables.

So what? Peeps get on each other's nerves for different reasons all the time. Kind of like here but that doesn't mean you would think someone would harm somebody else or go out to get them. I wouldn't, I'd move on which is what MS was planning to do. Guess what?

Some people cannot let go of perceived injustices and plot revenge. I know we shouldn't think this or we can't believe this or how can one (me) say this but, if you've ever had someone tell a lie about you that you know is the furthest thing from the truth for the purpose of smearing you because you were more popular or whatever, then maybe you'd know it happens. There are people who can't stand to see other people excell and instead of working on themselves, they work at tearing other people down. This happens surrounding people getting attention or it happens when good things happen to people other than themselves.
When I was young I had both happen to me - jealous other girl lying about what I told the man she wanted. She tried to make sure he hated me. He wanted in her pants so he acted as if he believed her and, whether he did or not, I felt betrayed. Not only was I falsely accused but just the idea of the outright lie burned my butt. The happy ending, I'm not proud of this, but he got that girl and I was told years later that he was often seen in a local bar picking up other women. That made me feel good. Remember, she had told bald faced lies about me because she perceived me as a threat. She was the recipient of divine reciprocity.

Another time, I received a promotion at work where I'd go to headquaters 3x a week to do jobs. This exposed me to more opportunities. Three old ladies (age 40 and above - I'm in my 50's now), created such a ruckess because they felt they were more deserving. How did I feel? It wasn't my fault management picked me. I felt hurt and was uncomfortable when I walked into my original workplace area knowing that they were tearing me down.

In conclusion, life teaches us things through our experiences. It shows us how people CAN be and sometimes are. And it shows you who you are and to be proud that you don't operate that way. Yet you know, as much as you hate it, people are out there who are spiteful, vindictive and who are willing to hurt others for their own benefit.

```````````````````````````


No, I won't delete my post because it is true but wasn't a direct statement. You have to listen to all of BW's remarks and draw the conclusion.
If person A is the same as person B, they are the same person.

kgeaus comment is the post that triggered my post. It ended up at the bottom as I must not have scrolled down far enough prior to my response.

I do recall Brettly saying that he had broken up with his old GF, that she and Mickey had been fiends and that she and Mickey's relationship became strained. Possible this girl was the type who didn't like a girlfriend to get friendly with an ex boyfriend. IOW, I'm mad at him so if you're my friend, you won't be friends with him. Happens all the time. I did not know that Brettly's ex also worked at the stables. When I first heard about his ex, I entertained her as a possible suspect, too. I can see why you might wonder about it. Did you think that she may have hurt Mickey's horse?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I have a question for anyone in the mental health industry. How often is it the case when someone suffers a tragedy (similar to this) with a violent and traumatic ending, and they are obviously "a little off" mentally, that they then become drawn (sexually or otherwise) to things reminiscent of said tragedy?

I'm not even going to ask but my 'life is sometimes like a soap opera' reasoning is putting a scenario together.

Could be a clue, yes, imo.

 

[Artis]

Perhaps he has seen MS riding late at night and kidnapped her- not to harm her, but to protect her and keep her safe from harm-something he couldn't do with his own child.

I could entertain such a scenario but it wouldn't fit with him going out searching.

 

[who knew?]

well if I was in a real effed up situation that there was no way out of I'd try anything no matter how crazy it sounds. If its the control or power trip of overpowering someone or feeling of superior.....take that away from them. Be more psychotic than they are and it will throw them for a loop.
Someone who is aiming to rape and overpower someone would not expect a willing or overly enthusiastic victim. On a situation where I saw no way out I would simply refuse to be victimized.

Until you are in the situation, you have no idea what you will do. Maybe you will never have to know. You just try to live through it.....