LA LA - Slidell, WhtFem 20-30, UP852, Breast Implants, Pregnant Jun'86

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Mrs. Badcrumble said:
An excerpt from the article:

(...) "But something else that didn't exist then is available now, Sharp said: genealogy. "Hopefully, genealogy is going to be tremendous in that case. It might trace her back to some relative from 1780 or something like that. They say they do have that capability," he said, though it's expensive.

The producers of a crime program have offered to pay the bill, Sharp said. "They have a pretty high success rate. They have experts on staff, experts in genealogy and in DNA," he said.

The woman's DNA profile has been submitted to open source databases, and Sharp said they are very hopeful that they will finally have a name for the victim. "The most important thing is identifying her," he said. "After that, I think everything else will fall into place."

Does this mean that genealogists are working on her case right now, and it's only a matter of time that she might be identified? (◉_◉)
Click to expand...

Nearly two years and still no updates ....
 
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Alleykins said:
What company is handling her forensic genetic genealogy research? Do we know?
Click to expand...

The company being utilized for the genealogy research was never mentioned.

"The producers of a crime program have offered to pay the bill, Sharp said. "They have a pretty high success rate. They have experts on staff, experts in genealogy and in DNA," he said.

The woman's DNA profile has been submitted to open source databases, and Sharp said they are very hopeful that they will finally have a name for the victim. "The most important thing is identifying her," he said. "After that, I think everything else will fall into place."
 
folieadeuxnola said:
Nearly two years and still no updates ....
Click to expand...
Ikr? I've been looking for updates on a regular basis since then, but nada.
Alleykins said:
What company is handling her forensic genetic genealogy research? Do we know?
Click to expand...
Do not quote me on this, but I remember reading that these researches doesn't necessarily needs to be conducted by a company or organisation within the DNA/genealogy field; they could also be worked on by someone in their own (LE) agency (which could be an explanation to why we haven't heard anything for almost two years. Another reason could be that she's one of those hard cases..).

There's also the possibility that LE doesn't fully understand how forensic genealogy and GEDmatch works and think just uploading her data to the database is sufficient.
 
Also it depends on what type of DNA is analyzed. Many LE agencies and virtually all of Europe still use mtDNA or YDNA... which is pretty useless for UID identification (only works if you have a relative on maternal/paternal lineage you can compare it to)... you need nuc/autosomal DNA and then it is not enough to just put it into CODIS, but someone has to upload it to gedmatch and start genealogy. Which is a labor intensive task and requires a lot of background knowledge about family trees... which most LE people are not trained in, nor have the time to do.
 
This case here looks like the agency indeed has a team of experts trained in genetic genealogy, though. That is nice to hear and really remarkable and rare. It still can take time to crack a case (in some cases it is unsolveable).
 
The crime show is handling the DNA research from what I gather .... LE only knows the database that is being utilized in which was Gedmatch.


"The producers of a crime program have offered to pay the bill, Sharp said. "They have a pretty high success rate. They have experts on staff, experts in genealogy and in DNA," he said.
 
They could also be utilizing the FACES lab at Louisiana Tech which is as good as any in the country. Most of these cases wind up being collaborative efforts no matter which group takes the lead, because of the need to utilize specialized techniques to extract and analyze degraded DNA.

Many labs were closed for part of last year because of Covid, so that might have slowed things down as well.
 
I agree with everyone on this thread that it's unbelievable this woman has not been identified with so many unique aspects to her person: breast augmentation, possible rhinoplasty, evidence of missing ring (perhaps a wedding band) , excellent dental hygiene, no tattoos, evidence of serious pelvic fracture, and a lifelike recreation done by an eminent forensic pathologist. It's a mystery why she remains unidentified.

So there are a couple of things I've been thinking about with this Doe and one of them is perhaps she wasn't murdered but actually committed suicide. I know it's hard to believe someone could engage in a suicide plan that engages their body being found nude, with a plastic bag taped over their head and a 22 pound weight attached to their neck and drifting in a water source.

As someone upthread already mentioned, Annandale Jane Doe asphyxiated herself by taping a plastic bag over her head after drinking a fair amount of alcohol while laying in a cemetery surrounded by items meaningful to her. Another La. suicide of a young male found hanging from a tree in Belle Chase La. was found with a note exempting his parents from responsibility and legal entanglements.

Another suicide, again a male, found hanging in a tree had used barbed wire as his noose, his body was found nude with religious paraphernalia. So not everyone chooses the quiet, neat death of an overdose or a quick bullet to the temple. For me, the possibility of a suicide isn't negated by the process being outside the realm of what I might consider beyond the pale.

One thing I do want to add is that the injuries to the face have always been characterized as superficial, meaning they could have been secondary injuries due to a body drifting in a water source. They could also mean that the deceased person was injuring themselves because of emotional or psychological problems, especially someone who had made alterations to their physical appearance.

So while suicide remains a possibility for me, it's still only around a 25% possibility.

The law of averages suggest that this woman was probably murdered and her body dumped in the water perhaps off a bridge but maybe also from a small boat that left a jetty at night without anyone paying too much attention. Apparently, according to fishing websites, June is a good time to go fishing for lunker trout in Lake Pontchartrain and the best time of day is either twilight or dawn and the best locations are near the bridge pilings. I found this out by going on fishing websites specific to Lake Pontchartrain which has brackish water.

Lake Pontchartrain fishing tips for a mixed bag

I don't have much more to add other than thinking like several posters that Lucie Gelinas has eerie similar features to this JD. I did find one woman, not mentioned yet, who supposedly went missing from Pineville Louisiana in early 1985. She is a married woman, with two young boys, who left her husband. Information is scant but she worked for the US Postal Service and was slightly hearing and visually impaired. There is absolutely nothing about her in Namus or The DoeNetwork. So no information regarding breast augmentation, dental records, etc. If she's not on Namus or the DoeNetwork does that means she's not considered a missing person?

Here's a link to her story.

Debra Ann Kelley Woodson - Cold Case Missing (1986)

Here's a picture of her. And one of LPJD for side by side comparison.
 

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branmuffin said:
I agree with everyone on this thread that it's unbelievable this woman has not been identified with so many unique aspects to her person: breast augmentation, possible rhinoplasty, evidence of missing ring (perhaps a wedding band) , excellent dental hygiene, no tattoos, evidence of serious pelvic fracture, and a lifelike recreation done by an eminent forensic pathologist. It's a mystery why she remains unidentified.

So there are a couple of things I've been thinking about with this Doe and one of them is perhaps she wasn't murdered but actually committed suicide. I know it's hard to believe someone could engage in a suicide plan that engages their body being found nude, with a plastic bag taped over their head and a 22 pound weight attached to their neck and drifting in a water source.

As someone upthread already mentioned, Annandale Jane Doe asphyxiated herself by taping a plastic bag over her head after drinking a fair amount of alcohol while laying in a cemetery surrounded by items meaningful to her. Another La. suicide of a young male found hanging from a tree in Belle Chase La. was found with a note exempting his parents from responsibility and legal entanglements.

Another suicide, again a male, found hanging in a tree had used barbed wire as his noose, his body was found nude with religious paraphernalia. So not everyone chooses the quiet, neat death of an overdose or a quick bullet to the temple. For me, the possibility of a suicide isn't negated by the process being outside the realm of what I might consider beyond the pale.

One thing I do want to add is that the injuries to the face have always been characterized as superficial, meaning they could have been secondary injuries due to a body drifting in a water source. They could also mean that the deceased person was injuring themselves because of emotional or psychological problems, especially someone who had made alterations to their physical appearance.

So while suicide remains a possibility for me, it's still only around a 25% possibility.

The law of averages suggest that this woman was probably murdered and her body dumped in the water perhaps off a bridge but maybe also from a small boat that left a jetty at night without anyone paying too much attention. Apparently, according to fishing websites, June is a good time to go fishing for lunker trout in Lake Pontchartrain and the best time of day is either twilight or dawn and the best locations are near the bridge pilings. I found this out by going on fishing websites specific to Lake Pontchartrain which has brackish water.

Lake Pontchartrain fishing tips for a mixed bag

I don't have much more to add other than thinking like several posters that Lucie Gelinas has eerie similar features to this JD. I did find one woman, not mentioned yet, who supposedly went missing from Pineville Louisiana in early 1985. She is a married woman, with two young boys, who left her husband. Information is scant but she worked for the US Postal Service and was slightly hearing and visually impaired. There is absolutely nothing about her in Namus or The DoeNetwork. So no information regarding breast augmentation, dental records, etc. If she's not on Namus or the DoeNetwork does that means she's not considered a missing person?

Here's a link to her story.

Debra Ann Kelley Woodson - Cold Case Missing (1986)

Here's a picture of her. And one of LPJD for side by side comparison.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Debra not being listed on Namus or the DoeNetwork means that her MP report is on a less known database, perhaps on a Facebook group.
 
branmuffin said:
So there are a couple of things I've been thinking about with this Doe and one of them is perhaps she wasn't murdered but actually committed suicide.
Click to expand...
She'd been stabbed in the face and, IIRC, defensive wounds were present. There was a fingerprint on the duct tape around her neck which wasn't hers. I think we can rule out suicide based on that.
 
PropaneYeeter said:
She'd been stabbed in the face and, IIRC, defensive wounds were present. There was a fingerprint on the duct tape around her neck which wasn't hers. I think we can rule out suicide based on that.
Click to expand...

From the information it does appear she was defending herself from an attacker. With that being what is the first thing you do when someone is attacking you ..put up your hands. Was surprised their was no DNA evidence underneath her fingernails unless it washed away in the water. Or she may have not had the opportunity to get a firm grip or scratch on him/her with her nails.
 
Not being listed on Namus or the other national databases means nothing except that nobody uploaded the case yet. Only a tiny fraction of the missing person cases in the country are in Namus--I've seen estimates as low as 5-10%. The rest are cases like Debra's, existing in various local files.

She's an intriguing possibility. Pineville to Slidell is quite a long drive, but not impossible, and she does fit quite a few of the decedent's characteristics.
 
branmuffin said:
I agree with everyone on this thread that it's unbelievable this woman has not been identified with so many unique aspects to her person: breast augmentation, possible rhinoplasty, evidence of missing ring (perhaps a wedding band) , excellent dental hygiene, no tattoos, evidence of serious pelvic fracture, and a lifelike recreation done by an eminent forensic pathologist. It's a mystery why she remains unidentified.

So there are a couple of things I've been thinking about with this Doe and one of them is perhaps she wasn't murdered but actually committed suicide. I know it's hard to believe someone could engage in a suicide plan that engages their body being found nude, with a plastic bag taped over their head and a 22 pound weight attached to their neck and drifting in a water source.

As someone upthread already mentioned, Annandale Jane Doe asphyxiated herself by taping a plastic bag over her head after drinking a fair amount of alcohol while laying in a cemetery surrounded by items meaningful to her. Another La. suicide of a young male found hanging from a tree in Belle Chase La. was found with a note exempting his parents from responsibility and legal entanglements.

Another suicide, again a male, found hanging in a tree had used barbed wire as his noose, his body was found nude with religious paraphernalia. So not everyone chooses the quiet, neat death of an overdose or a quick bullet to the temple. For me, the possibility of a suicide isn't negated by the process being outside the realm of what I might consider beyond the pale.

One thing I do want to add is that the injuries to the face have always been characterized as superficial, meaning they could have been secondary injuries due to a body drifting in a water source. They could also mean that the deceased person was injuring themselves because of emotional or psychological problems, especially someone who had made alterations to their physical appearance.

So while suicide remains a possibility for me, it's still only around a 25% possibility.

The law of averages suggest that this woman was probably murdered and her body dumped in the water perhaps off a bridge but maybe also from a small boat that left a jetty at night without anyone paying too much attention. Apparently, according to fishing websites, June is a good time to go fishing for lunker trout in Lake Pontchartrain and the best time of day is either twilight or dawn and the best locations are near the bridge pilings. I found this out by going on fishing websites specific to Lake Pontchartrain which has brackish water.

Lake Pontchartrain fishing tips for a mixed bag

I don't have much more to add other than thinking like several posters that Lucie Gelinas has eerie similar features to this JD. I did find one woman, not mentioned yet, who supposedly went missing from Pineville Louisiana in early 1985. She is a married woman, with two young boys, who left her husband. Information is scant but she worked for the US Postal Service and was slightly hearing and visually impaired. There is absolutely nothing about her in Namus or The DoeNetwork. So no information regarding breast augmentation, dental records, etc. If she's not on Namus or the DoeNetwork does that means she's not considered a missing person?

Here's a link to her story.

Debra Ann Kelley Woodson - Cold Case Missing (1986)

Here's a picture of her. And one of LPJD for side by side comparison.
Click to expand...
I’d great to know if her family’s DNA is on some sort of database.
 
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