Landscaper says Terri Horman wanted him to kill her husband!

[human]

YES YES YES! oh you smart Gwen!

I agree that Gwen is smart for sure.

But what are you getting at Wrinkles about the MFH?

 

[shefner]

I'm not sure what the going rate is -lol, But in this case it would be a down payment as the job was not done.

OK...well, I was thinking that ten grand is not that much all things considered. LE said the murder-for-hire plot involved a "lot of money" and I'm just wondering how much that might be. I don't think I've read about the exact amount anywhere...and like you, I don't have much experience in the murder-for-hire business...lol

 

[GrainneDhu]

Terri shouldn't be concerned about being some "fall guy". It amazes me how people think LE tries to railroad everyone. Terri's only concern should be to do whatever it takes to find Kyron. If that means to be hypnotized to try to pick up more clues, being polygraphed until the cows come home, or being interviewed for hours. If she's not guilty then she doesn't have anything to worry about.

SBM

That is what Kevin Fox thought. He knew he wasn't guilty, he knew he had no guilty knowledge at all. He knew his little girl was dead and he wanted to help find who abducted and killed her. So he went in and fully cooperated with LE. He was subjected to an interrogation so coercive that he falsely confessed.

If he hadn't managed to convince a Project Innocence lawyer that he was factually innocent, he might have sat in jail for much longer than the eight months he spent there. LE had run one type of DNA test on the evidence and got back a test result of "inconclusive." They (LE) didn't realise that there were other DNA tests available that would yield a decisive answer. Kevin Fox's Project Innocence lawyer was the one who figured out about the various tests and pushed for the correct testing to be done.

Without that Project Innocence lawyer, Kevin Fox might well have been convicted.

Eight months he sat in jail while the real murderer had the chance to harm other children (in fact, he is believed to have other victims from that time period). Would LE have developed such tunnel vision if Kevin Fox had been less cooperative? It's impossible to know.

LE ignored evidence like a pair of shoes with the perp's name on them abandoned very near the body. It wasn't just a random guy without a record, either, the perp was a convicted sex offender. There was so much other evidence (fingerprints, etc) that, when looking back over the case, it's well nigh impossible to see how LE could have developed such tunnel vision.

But they did.

 

[scandi]

On the question of "why hire a landscaper for your mfh plot?" Here's a theory: Maybe HE (the LS) posted an ad on Craiglist looking for work. He's out of work, desperate for a job and will do ANY handy work you need him to do (paint, yardwork, car maintenance, etc.). Perhaps, she thinks his desperation for work makes him more likely to jump at her offer of mfh. As to why he didn't turn her in at first, it could be that he's undocumented/illegal or that he has a criminal record otherwise and didn't want to get involved with the police again.

Lars Larson, a radio talk show host here in Portland did an interview yesterday I think with a landscaper who had answered an ad Terri had put out. I think he was the 3rd landscaper we have in the case.

He said he answered the ad, got no answer. I think he sent another reply, not sure as I wasn't really concentrating on him, but he said when she didn't respond back to him he gave up and let it go,. figuring she had already found someone. That was about 2 months ago.

When he heard the news about the LS he voluntarily went to LE, having put 2 + 2 together about who she was. He never did talk to her.

The only reason I mention it here is that is the way she tried to find a landscaper, by placing an ad. I think he said on Craigs List. Dang, wish I'd paid more attention to the spot !

 

[Adalena935]

Does LE feel she was in contact with an accomplice on the days leading up to Kyron's disappearance? The reason I ask is from this article:



This tidbit must be important somehow since it is mentioned in the article. JMO

http://www.kgw.com/news/Hormanprobelatest-97771724.html

The article doesn't say anything about an accomplice, but it does say LE reached out to EVERYONE who might have had contact with the family. With a missing child I would imagine they would be remiss not to do that. Accomplice is a lot of speculation I think. In fact the link says LE has focused on her. not plural. Which indicates at least from this article that they believe she acted alone. There's numerous instances in the linked article that talks about her in the singular. she lied to le about her whereabouts, she failed key questions on her polygraph and so on and so forth. all that paraphrased since you already have posted the link and thank you for it. Very interesting but not surprising to me. This is the first time I've read she was supposed to deliver the missing child to his Mother and step father for a planned vacation (my paraphrase) since you've posted the link. Thanks!! Very good reading.

 

[Adalena935]

I hope she wasn't able to hire another hit man as LE suggested to him she might have succeeded in doing. How afraid he must be for himself, his missing son and his baby daughter. From the link posted above by matou.

 

[butterfly1978]

It's quite simple to me.

Scenario 1. Imagine you're innocent of any wrongdoing but you're in the eye of the storm because of a missing child. The guy who used to do your lawn has decided to take the opportunity to make up a blackmail scheme and he comes to visit you with a scary looking pal, talking something very worrisome about killing your husband. You have no idea what's going on. What would you do?

I think you would call 911 because you would be scared for yourself and your husband and because there is a chance that this strangely acting guy and his scary friend have something to do with your child going missing.

Scenario 2. You asked your gardener to kill your husband but he didn't do it. Now you're in the middle of a missing child investigation and you think they suspect you. Suddenly the gardener who left you alone for months reappears with a friend and threatens to tell LE about your past conversations. You are feeling a little paranoid in every day situations and this makes your dangermeter blink on red alert. You think his friend kinda looks like an undercover agent and wonder if your lawnboy has already told LE and if this is a setup. What would you do? You need to act like you're innocent, so what do you do?

Plan 1. Stay silent.
Advantages: LE might not hear about your murder-for-hire plan. Disadvantages: You might have to pay him money that you don't have, and then some. Why would he quit having got ten grand? Also, if LE is watching your finances they will ask uncomfortable questions if money vanishes. Furthermore, if he's already told LE and if this is a setup, you will look like you have something to hide if you go along with the lawn guy's demands.

Plan 2. Inform LE.
Disadvantages: If the lawn guy hasn't told LE about your murder-for-hire plan they will find out. But if this is a set up it will not matter because they already know.
Advantages: If this is a setup, you have a chance to bluff your way through it saying you know nothing about any murder-for-hire plan. If it's his word against yours it might work. You look more innocent if you inform LE about the encounter yourself than if they need to come and ask you about it. An innocent person would call LE if someone talks about killing her husband and attempts blackmail.

I think it makes sense to call LE.

I was going to type up something very similar to this but you saved me the trouble... However I would like to add,What if Terri and this guy had an affair, she broke it off he was then blackmailing her. He took Kyon and did something with him, Terri knows this and was trying to get money to pay him off. He then sees that Terri is looking REAL suspicious in the media and comes up with this senerio about the MFH and goes to LE with this.... Its just a theory but if something like this happened it would be the ultimate revenge for a man scorned...........

 

[Wrinkles]

--- snipped ---
I can't decide if this woman is guilty and brilliant, or the unfortunate victim of a perfect storm scenario.
--- snipped ---

I cannot, beyond a shadow of my own doubt, decide whether she is guilty or innocent of having anything to do with Kyron's disappearance, so we are "kinda" in the same boat (I might not have added "brilliant" to the "guilty and brilliant.") I don't think you/I have/know enough facts to help us to determine this yet, certainly not to our own personal preferences.

For now... I'm leaning on a) look at what is known within the field and b) try not to get tripped up on red herrings which could focus attention in a possible wrong direction and c) stay in the field until there is plenty of evidence to jump the fence and sit on one side (connect the dots). Even so...I (we) have heard Tony who said something about connecting the dots, and I can't forget that. This fellow may be emotionally involved in this case, but he is also a trained investigator.

 

[JBean]

I have my Lawnboy lawnmower so we always talk about taking the boy out to work.

We have a personal relationship , just like I had with a car once that had a "soul".

But, I see people would have no way about knowing about my little green man.

Sorry.

:floorlaugh:

 

[nonfictionrocks]

She DID give information in regards to Kyron for 3 weeks. She more than cooperated for 3 weeks, then was turned on--yes, it is about being hurt--that is reality, not necessarily vindictive. At some point, one in her position will feel the need to protect herself.

Even after the bio-parents "implored" her to do so (and perhaps implied that she was not cooperating), LE stated that she was.

 

[T-Rex]

Just thinking about the timing. Terri getting rid of Kyron right before he was going away for the weekend anyway. To spend the weekend with his bio mom. AND his LE stepdad. Maybe THAT was the point? To keep him from telling Tony something?? (Probably not, but just thinking out loud.)

 

[scandi]

Hummma hummma... As I sit here scratching the old brain, I don't think that LE thought she would bite at all...

Hi ya Wrinkles, I'd like to hear more about your thought, that she wouldn't bite at all.
Do you think they just wanted to get her reaction? Thanks

 

[scandi]

I cannot, beyond a shadow of my own doubt, decide whether she is guilty or innocent of having anything to do with Kyron's disappearance, so we are "kinda" in the same boat (I might not have added "brilliant" to the "guilty and brilliant.") I don't think you/I have/know enough facts to help us to determine this yet, certainly not to our own personal preferences.

For now... I'm leaning on a) look at what is known within the field and b) try not to get tripped up on red herrings which could focus attention in a possible wrong direction and c) stay in the field until there is plenty of evidence to jump the fence and sit on one side (connect the dots). Even so...I (we) have heard Tony who said something about connecting the dots, and I can't forget that. This fellow may be emotionally involved in this case, but he is also a trained investigator.

I'm going to go look for that quote. I thought it was more like, whatever you've heard about her {Terri}, it's true.



ETA:

This is a post from BeanE on the Presser thread:

"During the question-and-answer period after Desiree read her statement, Tony told people they can “connect the dots” in this case.

“What’s been in the media up to this point, I think that can be checked (and) you can connect the dots yourself,” he said. “If you’re a reasoning person you can come to your own opinion about that.”

They said Terri is not cooperating with police since she hired high-profile defense attorney, Stephen Houze last week.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/97904344.html"


PS: It did mention connecting the dots too. ;}

 

[gwenabob]

GOOD POINTS.....this is a case where through no fault of their own, LE has been placed in a huge conflict of interest situation. The same entity that funds their services and pays their salaries also funds the school district (i.e. the government through taxes). IF they find that the school district policies and lack of security enabled an employee or even a stranger to abduct this child, then obviously there will be a multi-million dollar law suit or settlement that will then affect funding for the future of both organizations. If they can either prove (or implicate and then never solve) a case against the parent....the school and therefore the tax funds are not liable, or at least much less so. While I am in no way implying that LE is not trying to find the real answers in this case, it is just a fact that HOW it turns out is directly tied into tax revenues, as are their own salaries and department funds.

jmo

Actually it isn't that simple. In Oregon, the school district is funded through the general state fund which comes from income taxes. Police are funded through local property taxes. Completely different streams of revenue and one is not dependent on the other. A big lawsuit on the school district will not affect the police budget, nor vice versa.

 

[gwenabob]

Unless your state and county do not have a budget of any kind....they are linked. There is a pool of tax money and SOMEONE makes decisions about how much there is and who gets how much. There aren't separate taxes collected for LE, schools, highways, fire departments etc. The sales tax or state and federal income tax money is appropriated by some fiscal entity and there is not an unlimited supply of that money (even though some law makers currently seem to think that there is).

Perhaps that is how it is in your state. Oregon is different.

First, we have no sales tax. We have income tax and local property tax. Income tax funds the schools. The state divvies up the money equally between all the school districts. Police, fire, local government are funded through local property taxes. Separate streams of money altogether. All appropriated by different government entities. Their budgets do not rely on each other in any way.

 

[Wrinkles]

That's interesting.

I was thinking that it was such a lame plan by professionals. I thought, "I could have come up with something better than that!"

So what do you think the lawnboy thing was all about with LE?

Well... first it is good to see you dear Human!...

Second, with all due respect, I didn't think this was a lame plan by professionals -- although I am not privy to exactly how it was run, I guess I just like to think LE is smarter than "lamer." I think it was more probably a well considered plan, and probably one which was looking for something I may not have considered. I don't know that they were looking for Terri to bite into handing a 10K check or 10K in cash, or admit anything, or intimate anything overtly... I think they were probably really needing to watch "reaction" or an acceptance of an invitation for the LS to enter the gates or or or (maybe they sent in that LE person to make sure that LS didn't get blown away.)

I'm not sure what the landscaper sting was all about yet, I'm still sniffing. I will say that in the midst of "re-sniffing" I considered something at the following link (pertaining to the 25th of June, a day before the sting which took place on the 26th):

>>After Kyron’s biological parents gave a series of TV interviews two days later, on June 25, I returned to Sheltered Nook Road today hoping Horman might have reconsidered talking to a reporter. Again there was a TV cameraman.

But one thing had changed in the five days since my first visit. Today there were four signs posted along the driveway in bright orange letters, warning visitors to stay away.

The gate was open, but I did as the signs said and kept out.<<

I wondered...just how did that sting (LS and LE) get through those "No Trespassing" signs. Was there an "Okay, come on over" from Terri phone call (or email) in advance? Did the LS show up at the gates, stay outside and cell phone (or text) Terri saying "Might I have permission to enter?" Did the LS and LE just drive on through ignoring the "No Trespassing" signs.

Back to "So what do you think the lawnboy thing was all about with LE?"

I hate to cop out on a direct answer...but I don't have one. I do think that they were looking for something in particular that maybe none of us have considered yet. I think that the 10K might have been about any number of things we are not yet sure about -- and maybe not a MFH -- maybe another "for hire" something.

 

[Adalena935]

Except there are cases where LE has erroneously focused on an innocent person. Yes, it is about finding Kyron. But if she is innocent, how should she act if LE is completely focused on her as the perpetrator? Of course, cooperate - but what I think a few people are trying to point out is that you don't help LE and the DA convict you when someone else committed the crime.

LE is fallible. I'm not the type to think that LE is always out to railroad someone, is racist, etc. However, I do certainly think it's possible that in a high-pressure, close to home case, sometimes you can become too focused on one theory to the detriment of the case. We don't know all the facts for this case, but I don't think it's unreasonable for posters to question the public focus on only one person.

She was the last to say she had been with him. I haven't seen focus on her at all up 'til this past weekend when it was reported about the murder for hire.

community searches widely reported in news. Since she was last with him it seemed reasonable people would talk of her but media behaved as if she were invisible. It was the most bizarre thing I've seen in a case like this. So much so it seemed obvious to me everyone, news, le, the public, talking heads were all going out of their way to not focus on her.

Since the weekend news she tried to hire a hit man to kill hubby yes I can see where focus has been on her, but that's only a few days compared to nearly 5 weeks of this whole case. and how many of us reportedly trying to hire a hit man would still be free with a child in our care missing 5 weeks? Not many if any is my guess. they've given her a very wide berth in my opinion.

 

[scandi]

I agree that Gwen is smart for sure.

But what are you getting at Wrinkles about the MFH?

HELP ! For the life of me I can't figure out what MFH means. I don't think it is what it appears to be at a quick glance. Ta

 

[gwenabob]

HELP ! For the life of me I can't figure out what MFH means. I don't think it is what it appears to be at a quick glance. Ta

Murder For Hire

 

[Wrinkles]

Hi ya Wrinkles, I'd like to hear more about your thought, that she wouldn't bite at all.
Do you think they just wanted to get her reaction? Thanks

Hiya Dear Scandi!

Good to see you, always good to see you.

Yes... I think this was a reaction thing. Just wrote a message to Human on this... Reaction to "can I enter the property and have a word with you" (there were posted no trespassing signs on the 25ht) AND reaction to how the landscaper presented himself and a possible 10K bill, along with "Pay up or I contact LE" (I'm not sure how that went, but it "seems" to have been a threat.)

I think that this was hugely a guaging of that which occured, and just maybe there were no words about, "hey you remember you asked me to off your husband?" -- maybe it was far different than that. I would have liked to have heard the exchange.

BTW, thanks for asking my thoughts...

EDITED: I don't think we ever say, "I'm calling the police if you don't pay up" if we are smart enough to realize that an unpaid bill would be handle through court... One might guess that the landscaper had a clue on that type of thing, but who knows.