Landscaper says Terri Horman wanted him to kill her husband!

[mauirain]

Or maybe she had to call 911 because he came on to her, she said no, and he began stalking her. It's been known to happen.

IMO, this further weakens the alleged MFH plot.

I agree, it can happen. but i have to wonder......

Would she not have mentioned something like that to her husband, I mean, if the police call was even about the LS, I would think she would mention that to Kaine...and I thought I read somewhere that Kaine said he never even knew she had hired a LS. If I had to call 911 because of a stalker, my husband would know about it. JMO

 

[Calliope]

In 2003 she called the Washington County sheriff’s office after RE had requested TH give him a break on the child support payments that she had gotten raised and told them he was harassing (taking $ away from her/J=harassment/threat). He continued to pay child support just like, IMO she knew he would (at this time she had known him for 15 years). I am basing this on what was reported in the contradictions article. TH has not told her side of the story.

That's something the person needs to take through the court. And as you say, we've only heard a fraction of one side of the story. We have no idea what was said and just how he "requested" her to give him a break. If LE had to get involved to tell him to lay off, I suspect it was much more than simply "may I please pay you less in support?"

 

[Calliope]

I agree, it can happen. but i have to wonder......

Would she not have mentioned something like that to her husband, I mean, if the police call was even about the LS, I would think she would mention that to Kaine...and I thought I read somewhere that Kaine said he never even knew she had hired a LS. If I had to call 911 because of a stalker, my husband would know about it. JMO

Not if she was flirting and things got out of hand, LS deciding he wants more.

IMO, I really doubt Kaine was clueless about her hiring a landscaper. IF she did indeed hire him, Kaine knew. His comment about her spending *his* money tells me that he knew.

 

[Calliope]

Terri thinks she can talk herself out of anything. "Who are they going to believe? A beautiful middle class white woman or an uneducated, foreign landscaper?" she thinks, and takes the risk.

How do we know he's uneducated and foreign?

My daughter has a hispanic surname. She's the smartest person I know, working on her doctorate, and is a natural born US citizen.

 

[sorrell skye]

Not if she was flirting and things got out of hand, LS deciding he wants more.

IMO, I really doubt Kaine was clueless about her hiring a landscaper. IF she did indeed hire him, Kaine knew. His comment about her spending *his* money tells me that he knew.

I agree.

Based on the many interviews he has given over these past 4 months, KH may not have been aware of everything that was going on in the household, but it seems clear (again, based on his statements) that he at least knew where *his* money was going and what it was being spent on. If not, then why the claim that TH was "spending money like water"? IMO, it seems that he was keeping track of expenditures.

MOO

 

[BeanE]

She knows what the LS had on her and it wasn't much, texts and revealing pics. Nothing on paper, no evidence, just his words and Th being a good reader of people knew his words would not stand up court.

A place to find accurate (or as accurate as MSM) information.

It is M. Cook who sexted with Terri, and received revealing pics from her (per the legal document).

No documents or reports state that the landscaper sexted or received revealing pics from Terri.

 

[ThoughtFox]

It is M. Cook who sexted with Terri, and received revealing pics from her (per the legal document).

No documents or reports state that the landscaper sexted or received revealing pics from Terri.

I don't think that's quite correct, BeanE. :waitasec:

The original court document for the Restraining Order talks about hundreds of texts, sexts, and emails that are in evidence, and mentions that the landscaper connected to the Murder for Hire received similar sexually-explicit messages to those of Michael Cook.

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/horman-affair.pdf

Pages 10-11

"...hundreds of text messages as well as well as several photographs of Respondent in various stages of undress and graphic sexual activity...."

"...Respondent's (Terri's) stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to murder Petitioner (Kaine)."

 

[Mylou]

I see it as she could have personally, in person made advances towards him (the LS) and talked about her husband to him. I don't see it as she texted him and sent photos to him.

 

[Kat010]

I don't think that's quite correct, BeanE. :waitasec:

The original court document for the Restraining Order talks about hundreds of texts, sexts, and emails that are in evidence, and mentions that the landscaper connected to the Murder for Hire received similar sexually-explicit messages to those of Michael Cook.

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/horman-affair.pdf

Pages 10-11

"...hundreds of text messages as well as well as several photographs of Respondent in various stages of undress and graphic sexual activity...."

"...Respondent's (Terri's) stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to murder Petitioner (Kaine)."

The "...hundreds of..." refers to the MC sexting.

The other reference, to the man in the alleged MFH plot, says clearly that her alleged actions "resemble" the MC actions. That's a very loose statement.

Firstly, I don't know what "hundreds" of text messages mean. It sounds as though they're saying hundreds of sex messages were sent/received. However, I suspect that they mean hundreds of messages. Texting can include stuff like: u there? how u? tired u? hungry. 2 etc.

So I think that there's most likely a (created) belief that there are hundreds of messages that have something racy in every single one. Has anyone else seen the alleged Brent Favre sexting scandal?

I'm still not sure if they meant that TH and the LS sexted, or if they're referring to verbal activity.

I'm not excusing the sexting, as I keep saying. But I also think that there's a deliberate confusion about not only who the heck the LS is, but also what really happened, on all fronts. (So to speak.)

And again, as far as I can tell, the information in the request for the RO is what Kaine says. I can't open that document right now for some reason, but I don't recall seeing evidence from LE about exactly what happened in each case. It's basically Kaine says that LE says that the LS says.

Aaargh. What we have is "he said" vs. "she isn't saying." The only person who I know has ever said anything about KH in in RO action is DY in getting one against him. And that's a "she said". He says his current wife had a MFH plot going and she had sexting going on. His last wife said that she was afraid he would take her children--and, as even KH has admitted, he was actually having sex in an adulterous affair.

Among the adults, no one seems to come off very well, which is just a personal opinion based on my personal standards. And in the middle of all this, where the heck is Kyron?

I'm so tired of adult sexual shenanigans. Really I am. I'm just starting to wonder if lifestyle choices aren't a big part of whatever happened to Kyron.

 

[BeanE]

I don't think that's quite correct, BeanE. :waitasec:

The original court document for the Restraining Order talks about hundreds of texts, sexts, and emails that are in evidence, and mentions that the landscaper connected to the Murder for Hire received similar sexually-explicit messages to those of Michael Cook.

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/horman-affair.pdf

Pages 10-11

"...hundreds of text messages as well as well as several photographs of Respondent in various stages of undress and graphic sexual activity...."

"...Respondent's (Terri's) stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to murder Petitioner (Kaine)."

Exactly. Terri's relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Cook resemble those to the landscaper. Concerns and overtures are not texts and pictures.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/text


What you left out of your quote from page 10 regarding the hundreds of text messages:

"Law enforcement has informed Petitioner that the materials supporting this relationship that have been obtained and clarified by interviews with Mr. Cook include hundreds of text messages as well as several photographs..."

Context is important. The previous paragraph, as well as this one, is discussing, very specifically and clearly, the relationship with Mr. Cook, and only the relationship with Mr. Cook.

I realize that there is a desire for there to be texts and pictures between Terri and the landscaper, and there may well be. At this point, however, we have nothing that says there are - only with Mr. Cook.

Opinions and speculative conclusions are just fine - I'm not saying they're not. I'm a facts oriented person though, which is why I have a propensity for tracking and distinguishing these things.

 

[Donjeta]

Interesting post... For me, hearing that the landscaper had some serious legal trouble, or maybe even not so serious legal trouble, would make me wonder about any statements he supposedly made to LE... And especially so if it turned out that he was : a) in this country ilegally, or b) using someone else's identity ... MOO

All JMO

Yeah, it would make him more vulnerable to LE manipulation. On the other hand it might make him a better choice for someone looking for a hired killer. An illegal immigration status might be used as a persuasion point if he's afraid of getting deporterd. If someone is already using a stolen identity it might show he's no stranger to criminal activity and if I'm looking to hire someone to do a criminal job for me that's the sort of person I would pick.

 

[GrainneDhu]

JMO but I think that whether the MFH story is true or not the landscaper is perhaps more likely than not to have some legal problems.

In the event that he made the MFH story up he is the sort of dishonest person who thinks it is okay to lie to the police and that is a personality trait that can get you in legal trouble. He might have been persuaded to take part in the MFH sting if the authorities promised to get rid of some of his legal troubles for him.

In the event that the MFH story is true, again it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that he has some legal troubles because if I was out searching for someone who would kill my husband for me I wouldn't approach a pillar of society, I would reason that someone with a criminal past is a better bet. A church elder would turn me down and turn me in.

So hearing that he's got legal troubles wouldn't really tell me anything about his credibility as a putative murderer-for-hire.

I see your reasoning and it is sound.

However, if he has legal troubles, then I want to know if he is receiving anything in return for his testimony. Like having charges dropped, foregoing being charged for something like illegal drug possession, receiving money, receiving preferential treatment in prison:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/Snitches-Informants.php

Receiving anything like that would certainly make his testimony seem less credible to me.

 

[stmarysmead]

No matter how we parse the words...the wording implies Terri was the aggressor. It is Terri who made the "overtures." Nothing implies she was a passive party in this sexual activity...whatever it was. SHE was making the overtures to the Landscaper....and they were "similar" to her sexual activities with Kaine's "friend."

Frankly, parsing words does not mitigate the impression of a married woman making sexual advances, cyber or otherwise, to someone who was in her employ.

Almost sounds like the Landscaper was sexually harassed to me. If we want to think there was no sexting...I suppose she might have cornered him in various stages of undress or exhibited one of any number of sexual ploys while the man was trying to work there.

So perhaps the two incidents are not identical...but they are both appalling and astonishing in what they tell us about Terri Horman.

The fact that 4 days after her husband left the house, while her stepson is missing and (if she is innocent) may be in the hands of a sexual predator...that Terri Horman could have Kyron on her mind and still be sexting a virtual stranger, astounds me. Her little stepson might at that moment be undergoing hideous sexual abuse and she is photographing her own "body parts" hundreds of times? There is something really sick about that IMO.

"...hundreds of text messages as well as well as several photographs of Respondent in various stages of undress and graphic sexual activity...."

"Graphic sexual activity" to a stranger when a small boy I loved might be in the hands of a sexual pervert...another stranger?

Or wasn't Kyron and what he might be enduring in the hands of a sexual predator on her mind at all? Did she know FOR A FACT that Kyron was dead...so sex as a release would not be connected in her mind with an "image" of what might be happening to this little child?

Anyway whatever went on with the Landscaper, the "overture" was coming from Terri. The mind boggles at what it might be, but it does not pretty up the story one bit. This is about more than morality...it's about impulse control, poor judgment, betrayal, self-absorption...at the least.

In just my opinion of course.

 

[BeanE]

No matter how we parse the words...the wording implies Terri was the aggressor. It is Terri who made the "overtures." Nothing implies she was a passive party in this sexual activity...whatever it was. SHE was making the overtures to the Landscaper....and they were "similar" to her sexual activities with Kaine's "friend."

Frankly, parsing words does not mitigate the impression of a married woman making sexual advances, cyber or otherwise, to someone who was in her employ.

I completely agree, SMM, with the sole exception that any sexual activities were similar. Here's why. Cook said he and Terri never had sex. Let's assume for a moment that's true, okay?

Kaine's attorney claimed LE claimed that Terri's *overtures* were similar. We don't know what followed. Whereas there may have been sexting with no sex between Terri and Cook, there may have been, between Terri and the landscaper, no sex or sexting or picture exchanges, to sexting with no physical sex, to wild and woolly swinging from the chandelier. We just don't know right now.

Nevertheless, again, I completely agree that the use of the word "overtures" clearly implies that Terri was the instigator, or attempted instigator.

Of course, I know married men and women who have made sexual overtures, and even engaged in swinging from the chandelier. I am confident that not a one of them has ever murdered, attempted to murder, kidnapped, nor attempted to kidnap anyone at all, nor ever would.

 

[citigirl]

Not if she was flirting and things got out of hand, LS deciding he wants more.

IMO, I really doubt Kaine was clueless about her hiring a landscaper. IF she did indeed hire him, Kaine knew. His comment about her spending *his* money tells me that he knew.

He said he didn't know, and I think we should leave it at that--until he or she says otherwise. It is very possible for TH to spend a lot of money without her husband knowing where she spent it.

 

[citigirl]

I realize that there is a desire for there to be texts and pictures between Terri and the landscaper, and there may well be.

I do not see anyone having a desire for this--or for texts and pictures between Terri and MC. The statements by LE are very clear. If LE is lying they are lying. But until there is evidence that they are lying, those are the facts we have.

 

[stmarysmead]

I completely agree, SMM, with the sole exception that any sexual activities were similar. Here's why. Cook said he and Terri never had sex. Let's assume for a moment that's true, okay?

Kaine's attorney claimed LE claimed that Terri's *overtures* were similar. We don't know what followed. Whereas there may have been sexting with no sex between Terri and Cook, there may have been, between Terri and the landscaper, no sex or sexting or picture exchanges, to sexting with no physical sex, to wild and woolly swinging from the chandelier. We just don't know right now.

Nevertheless, again, I completely agree that the use of the word "overtures" clearly implies that Terri was the instigator, or attempted instigator.

Of course, I know married men and women who have made sexual overtures, and even engaged in swinging from the chandelier. I am confident that not a one of them has ever murdered, attempted to murder, kidnapped, nor attempted to kidnap anyone at all, nor ever would.

Well said, BeanE.

But in both these sexual incidents, they do not stand alone.

The sexual activity with the Landscaper, according to LE's investigation was partnered with Terri's request that this Landscaper murder her husband.

I also know a few couples who have strayed, but only one with people they have employed around the house, and none that mixed the sexuality with requests for spousal murder.

So that puts Terri in quite a different category IMO.

And I do understand that some of us credit LE and some do not....but even if she was joking...this is a strange deal. Essentially sexually harassing a workman while your toddler is in the house and then bantering about killing your husband and her father....the husband who keeps the roof over your head.

I hope that is not a common occurrence among the Landscaping profession! Assuming not... IMO that makes Terri...exceptional. And very strange at the least.

But the second instance really throws me. And appalls me.

Sexting a virtual stranger hundreds of times...taking sexual explicit photos of (as Chris Coleman says) your "private parts"...just when your supposedly loved stepson may be... at the moment...enduring sexual abuse from some pervert.? And this is some form of release? Not to mention doing this when YOU KNOW you are under police scrutiny?

So I cannot just lump Terri in with the many "normal" people who stray...because the context and timing of her sexual "overtures" are far from "average."

So, BBM...I cannot be "confident" of anything when it comes to Terri Horman or that she can just slide into this larger category you describe. Those people do not have Murder Plots and missing children as part of their "transgressions."

 

[BeanE]

I do not see anyone having a desire for this--or for texts and pictures between Terri and MC. The statements by LE are very clear. If LE is lying they are lying. But until there is evidence that they are lying, those are the facts we have.

Well it was discussed right in the pages of this very forum, that people wanted evidence to exist, in this specific regard.

I haven't seen any statements from LE regarding sexting or pictures. I don't believe any exist.

The only thing I've seen are Kaine's attorney's statements, in the legal document, in which she makes claims that are, by the way, unsubstantiated. None of those claims are that there were texts or pictures exchanged between the landscaper and Terri.

If you have statements from LE regarding sexting and pics in this case, I would appreciate if you would share them.

 

[BeanE]

Well said, BeanE.

But in both these sexual incidents, they do not stand alone.

The sexual activity with the Landscaper, according to LE's investigation was partnered with Terri's request that this Landscaper murder her husband.

I haven't seen anything from LE regarding sexual activity with the landscaper.

If you're referring to Ms. Rackner's claims regarding the landscaper, wherein she said that LE said that the landscaper etc, it was that sexual overtures had occurred - not sexual activity.

A come-hither look or a wink is a sexual overture. I would certainly not consider either to be sexual activity. Otherwise, I may never blink my eyes again. Or... I may blink them a lot more. :angel:

Of course, sexual overtures can be easily misunderstood. Why, just last night I thought my dear hubby was giving me a come-hither wink, and it turned out he simply had an eyelash in his eye.

Embarrassing to have to climb down from the chandelier.

 

[stmarysmead]

I haven't seen anything from LE regarding sexual activity with the landscaper.

If you're referring to Ms. Rackner's claims regarding the landscaper, wherein she said that LE said that the landscaper etc, it was that sexual overtures had occurred - not sexual activity.

A come-hither look or a wink is a sexual overture. I would certainly not consider either to be sexual activity. Otherwise, I may never blink my eyes again. Or... I may blink them a lot more. :angel:

Of course, sexual overtures can be easily misunderstood. Why, just last night I thought my dear hubby was giving me a come-hither wink, and it turned out he simply had an eyelash in his eye.

Embarrassing to have to climb down from the chandelier.

LOL! Ahh, we all have such moments...true!

But I think most couples can distinguish between what a wink might mean and something "similar" to "photographs of Respondent in various stages of undress and graphic sexual activity...."

A "wink" is not um-m-m "similar" to THAT. Nor does anything in the latter category leave much room for misinterpretation.

So if these acts in both instances are"sexual" and "similar"...I doubt we are talking about a "wink" from Terri to her Landscaper.