Laura Babcock Murder Trial 10.30.17 - Day 6

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SnooperDuper said:
Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Dungey, for #Smich, has no questions for Shirinian. She is done testifying. Leaving smiling at #Babcock family.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Shrinian is done in the witness box. Millard finished questioning before recess, and Mark Smich's lawyer has no questions.
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No questions from Dungey?! Why did he need a break? Lol

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
 
andreww said:
But when you don't have a body you kind of are compelled to come up with a solid motive. Especially in this case where you have an unstable, possibly suicidal victim. So far the only real evidence we've seen is the "meat" text, Smich's rap lyrics and the iPad. The iPad can be explained by saying she disappeared from Millard's and left it there. Rap lyrics can be explained as artistic license. So disregarding what we know from the TB trial, there is not a lot thus far. That said it is early going. The crown is laying things out, the first group of witnesses establishing that LB is very likely dead, the next group developing a picture of Millard's chaotic love life at the time. Thats where we stand today, so the meat of their case is still ahead of us.
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"Motive" is only circumstantial evidence and no more important than any of the other circumstantial evidence in the case.
 
andreww said:
Rap lyrics can be explained as artistic license.
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In Canada, prosecutors are using suspects' own rap lyrics to win convictions
http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-rap-lyrics-convictions-snap-story.html

But in the murder case against James McCullough, Justice Renee Pomerance challenged an argument that has become popular among those who oppose the use of rap lyrics at trial: No one would argue that Edgar Allan Poe buried someone under his floorboards just because he described such events in "The Tell-Tale Heart." No one would believe that Bob Marley actually shot a sheriff.

"But if Mr. Poe was charged with burying someone under his floorboards, and had earlier expressed an intention to do so, his creative writing might be very probative of issues at his trial," Pomerance wrote, clearing the way for McCullough’s rap lyrics to be introduced as evidence.

Defense lawyers expect rap lyrics to continue arising in court.
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Liam Casey‏ @liamdevlincasey
My morning file: Dellen Millard didn’t care about girlfriend’s feud with Laura Babcock, witness says
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...36764301/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Back in court and the jury is coming in. Megan Orr, a friend of Laura Babcock's, is about to face cross examination by Dellen Millard.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Back for cross exam. #Millard is asking Orr when she and #Babcock became close. End of 2011, she thinks. Towards winter at a social event

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Judge is questioning this because Orr is sure she and #Babcock were friends for a year before she disappeared.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Who is Nate, #Millard wonders. A friend of Laura's. He provided her with cocaine? #Millard asks. Orr doesn't know about that

marianne boucher‏ @CityCourtsTO
Megan Orr is now being cross examined by Millard. He always starts with Hello.
Millard: Hello Megan.
 
Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Millard is asking about text conversations, between Laura #Babcock and him and Christina Noudga and him. "I wouldn't call it bickering," Orr

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"I would call it her telling Christina she was having sex with you," Orr tells #Millard.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Laura #Babcock and #Millard shared "comfortable" texts of a sexual nature, #Millard says. Not in reference to an exact event.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"Very flirty messages," #Millard offers. "Crude?" "Dirty," says Orr. "They weren't flirtatious they were crude," Millard says.

 
Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Orr has never met #Millard, she agrees, but she and Laura #Babcock would discuss him, she agrees.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"When she told Christina it got heated for awhile..." Orr says Babcock and Millard stopped speaking, and started talking again in July

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Millard reinforces that he's never met Orr, but she's had discussions with Babcock about Millard.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Orr says, "For the most part it was positive. When she told Christina, it got heated up, and you guys stopped talking about you."

marianne boucher‏ @CityCourtsTO
Megan Orr says she saw txt messages between Millard and Babcock. Millard wants to know if the txt were "very flirty, crude or lewd?

DNZ7ZTOXkAAJVau.jpg

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"They stopped talking to Laura for awhile, and when I talked to Laura again in July, you were talking to her again," Orr tells #Millard.
 
Is anyone keeping a timeline? More interested to see how this lines up with what we know from the previous case. Obvious nefarious activity early on.

*Blood on the yacht August 2011 https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...cht-owner-blood-on-rented-boat-was-menstrual/

*Buys gun Feb. 11, 2012 http://torontosun.com/2017/06/29/ti...girl/wcm/125e8555-643c-446c-bc34-90082fbb0dd7
one day before LB's birthday.

*Eliminator purchased June 20, 2012 “My boss would like to order the SN500,” Schlatman said in a June 20, 2012" http://torontosun.com/2016/02/22/mi...told/wcm/49dedf63-8c64-40ce-b8d9-5495686f16f8

*LB's possible murder July 2012

*Theiving in 2012, "Hagerman was recruited into Millard’s “missions,” that were openly called “thieving.”http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...s-to-steal-vehicles-friend-tells-murder-trial

*WM's murder Nov 2012 - why didn't they burn him?

I'm intrigued with the text about the smell check of the barn. That indicates to me a body had been sitting for a bit.
 
Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Orr adds, "The last time I spoke to her in July, she said she was in contact with Dellen again."

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Babcock blocked Orr on Facebook because she was upset the two weren't as close. "It was more me pulling away," Orr says

Shannon Martin
Orr says in March 2012, Babcock blocked her on Facebook.

"She blocked me when I pulled away from our friendship," Orr explains, as she said earlier. "I didn't feel comfortable being placed in situations I was placed in, or hearing about it."

Millard says Babcock was introducing "sketchy characters."

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"I need you to help me with the answers here," #Millard tells Orr in his condescending, lawyerly voice. "I just have the questions."

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Orr wasn't comfortable around some of the people #Babcock was hanging out with when she pulled away from the friendship, she says.


 
Claroon said:
Is anyone keeping a timeline? More interested to see how this lines up with what we know from the previous case. Obvious nefarious activity early on.

*Blood on the yacht August 2011 https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...cht-owner-blood-on-rented-boat-was-menstrual/

*Buys gun Feb. 11, 2012 http://torontosun.com/2017/06/29/ti...girl/wcm/125e8555-643c-446c-bc34-90082fbb0dd7
one day before LB's birthday.

*Eliminator purchased June 20, 2012 “My boss would like to order the SN500,” Schlatman said in a June 20, 2012" http://torontosun.com/2016/02/22/mi...told/wcm/49dedf63-8c64-40ce-b8d9-5495686f16f8

*LB's possible murder July 2012

*Theiving in 2012, "Hagerman was recruited into Millard’s “missions,” that were openly called “thieving.”http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...s-to-steal-vehicles-friend-tells-murder-trial

*WM's murder Nov 2012 - why didn't they burn him?

I'm intrigued with the text about the smell check of the barn. That indicates to me a body had been sitting for a bit.
Click to expand...

billandrew has been updating his timeline (linked in his signature)
 
marianne boucher‏ @CityCourtsTO
Millard: Babcock was introducing you to a lot of sketchy ppl u weren't comfortable with.
Orr: She was always making friends.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Millard leans over the lectern, hunched into the microphone, his hands alternately clasped and gesturing as he cross examines.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Millard keeps saying Babcock worked in prostitution. The previous witness, her friend Karoline Shrinian corrected him - calls it escorting.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Crown has asked jury & witness to leave the room. #Babcock

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Orr also corrects Millard when he asks her about Babcock's prostitution. She said, "Laura was working as an escort."

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Crown Jill Cameron has asked for a moment for the jury to leave the room.
We can't report anything in their absence. Be back soon.
 
Claroon said:
Is anyone keeping a timeline? More interested to see how this lines up with what we know from the previous case. Obvious nefarious activity early on.

*Blood on the yacht August 2011 https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...cht-owner-blood-on-rented-boat-was-menstrual/

*Buys gun Feb. 11, 2012 http://torontosun.com/2017/06/29/ti...girl/wcm/125e8555-643c-446c-bc34-90082fbb0dd7
one day before LB's birthday.

*Eliminator purchased June 20, 2012 “My boss would like to order the SN500,” Schlatman said in a June 20, 2012" http://torontosun.com/2016/02/22/mi...told/wcm/49dedf63-8c64-40ce-b8d9-5495686f16f8

*LB's possible murder July 2012

*Theiving in 2012, "Hagerman was recruited into Millard’s “missions,” that were openly called “thieving.”http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...s-to-steal-vehicles-friend-tells-murder-trial

*WM's murder Nov 2012 - why didn't they burn him?

I'm intrigued with the text about the smell check of the barn. That indicates to me a body had been sitting for a bit.
Click to expand...

Not sure you can inherit an estate without a body.. likely the reason the suicide was staged instead..
 
caseyjonesin905 said:
Not sure you can inherit an estate without a body.. likely the reason the suicide was staged instead..
Click to expand...

You can, but you have to wait at least 7 years before someone is assumed dead and you can collect.

So yeah, a body would be handy when you are inheriting.
 
Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Legal arguments are over. Witness Megan Orr and the jury have been called back into the room.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Jury is back. #Millard is asking Orr again to name #Babcock friends who made her uncomfortable

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Also #Millard wants to know if Orr met any of #Babcock's clients. No. She'd heard about some of them.
 
winter2017 said:
inbetweendoors, that is my question too. Why was she the one chosen to murder? DM treated all the women like prostitutes, buying them gifts, drugs to have sex with them. They all seemed in same category. But yet in text he says he will get rid of Laura. Now hearing even more that CN was just as much viewed by DM as a prostitute as CN , this is a person who has dreams to be a dr.? nice. I don't get why Laura was singled out to murder. Maybe just because CN hated her.
Click to expand...

Perhaps he thought she was an easy target because he knew nobody would go looking for her right away, since she was out on her own couch surfing, and didn't really have a home/job to go to.
 
SnooperDuper said:
Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"When she told Christina it got heated for awhile..." Orr says Babcock and Millard stopped speaking, and started talking again in July

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"They stopped talking to Laura for awhile, and when I talked to Laura again in July, you were talking to her again," Orr tells #Millard.

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Orr adds, "The last time I spoke to her in July, she said she was in contact with Dellen again."
Click to expand...

This is significant, I think.

DM was mad at LB for telling CN they'd slept together, and broke off contact until just before she disappeared.

DM comes across as an easy going "personable" guy but underneath there must be some kind of murderous feelings. Possibly he felt Babcock had betrayed him by telling CN, and he hated being betrayed.
 
Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
From March to July 2012, Orr and #Babcock spoke over text but didn't see each other, as far as Orr remembers. #Millard

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Laura #Babcock wanted to go shopping with #Millard because he would pay for everything, Orr says she didn't want to go along

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Laura #Babcock told Orr after that she and #Millard had sex in the parking lot.
 
Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Orr saw #Babcock take medication for mental health issues, "she was adamant about taking them."

Shannon Martin‏ @ShannonMartinTV
Millard, "Laura's your good friend right?"

Orr responds, "Was, yes."

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Orr says #Babcock was "like every other human," in getting upset once in awhile. "Laura is your good friend?" #Millard asks "Was. Yes."

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
Millard asks if it's normal for most people to throw themselves down stairs to express themselves. Or hit their head on a wall.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
The text messages between #Millard and Laura #Babcock, was there any mention of a jeep? Or truck? Not that Orr can recall

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"Did you ever know her to make things up?" #Millard asks. No. Embellish anything? No.

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
"So if she told you we had sex in the parking lot you believed it?" Of course, Orr says.
 
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