Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.15.17 - Day 16

[Ms.elle]

I agree, I think the same

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Timeline wise I'm not sure that makes sense.

1. The photo of the chamber and what was burning was almost burned away in that photo. Evidence wise since the crown is saying that Laura was cremated on or about July 23rd, then that photo would have to be date stamped on or about July 23rd otherwise it would be too iffy for the crown to off that as the cremation date and/or use that photo to suggest that it was Laura being cremated.

2. The guy who sold SS the Eliminator said in his testimony when he was explaining the cement blocks/air flow, etc. that the design of the machine is such that once the cremation process had been started, the machine doesn't need to run for the entire process because the body in the machine will sort of continue to self cremate after awhile due to the build up of heat, etc inside.

3. The time stamp on MS's rap strongly suggests the cremation was successful in July.

As an aside, it would be my guess that they rigged up some sort of pully system or even used the shovel on the excavator to lift who/whatever they wanted to cremate into the eliminator.

 

[mskrisc]

I agree. I'll bet Isho knows more than we've heard. Some reason he hasn't been sentenced yet, (I haven't heard about it, if he was), and he might not be till after the WM trial.
I'm just guessing at all of this. Very odd tattoo on the top of his head. Older man with big black eye. HUMM.

Looks like he’ll face a few more charges before his sentence is determined.
“ Ward-Jackson has another trial coming up in October on unrelated charges of gun and drug possession. Today the Crown indicated he would be sentenced for selling the Walther PPK to Millard after he’s tried on those charges. The date is to be set in November.”



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[iPhoneGuy]

Through legal aid you can get the same lawyer twice?

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I believe once approved for Legal Aid you are provided a list of lawyers to choose from, or you can find your own lawyer that is approved for Legal Aid.
Legal Aid is just the government covering the bills the lawyer submits to them.
Court-appointed lawyers are also covered by Legal Aid, I believe.

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[billandrew]

Hi All! -- Been lurking since May 2013, posted twice I think. (But I blurt out often "Oh, excellent point" or "Good find" to so many of your posts. I, too, love BillAndrew's timeline. Exceptional reference!) And I knew members of the Bosma extended family way back then. So, that's me.

OK, the following is just an observation/thought re: Mob Reporter vid Part 12, July 23-24, 2012. It's at the 1:47 minute mark: at 9:05pm July 23rd, DM texts this to SS: "meses a largar generator, will talks out that Wednesday" Also posted today in post #222.


(I work in the Alternate Dispute Resolution field as a Mediator. Occupational hazard in this profession is you're keyed in to how people talk: what's said and how, what isn't said, speech patterns and deviations from same. That's why DM's text stood out to me and maybe to some of you, too.)


In the DM texts we've seen, in TB and LB trial, he doesn't mistype often. He'll short form or slang but not this hot mess of misspellings and word jumbles. It's a shift in focus or ability to now type "meses" when you mean "needs" or "will talks out" for "will talk about". Yet his text 6 mins before is fine as are the few in the hours before that.


My gut reaction to his text is something is now seriously underway at 9:05pm, July 23rd. Eg: Is this the moment or close to it that LB has been lifted into the incinerator? :facepalm: DM's hands shaking from exertion or adrenaline rush and can't type well? Maybe stoned? Or both? Or is it a funny and he's talking like Yoda? (Raise your hand if you just went back to the text and read as Yoda. I did.) It's still an hour+ before he searches for cremation temperature details. But something has him completely off his usual text style and spellings at 9:05pm that night. Orrrr maybe his jumbled text is nothing of import or timeline hint and I've had far too much coffee today. :coffeews:

Welcome, ChairCat! Thank you for your post. Great insight on DM's writing. That one text stood out to me, too, since it is uncharacteristic of DM to make such big spelling errors. And he usually corrects his errors in a subsequent text with an asterisk in front. He didn't do that in this case.

"meses a largar generator, will talks out that Wednesday"

This also raises an issue that I have often debated with myself in building the timeline: should I copy the messages verbatim, or should I edit the spelling, grammar, and formatting to make the timeline easier to read? I've done a bit of both over time (and not always been consistent), and sometimes I will go back and unfix edits that I've made in order to restore the character and tone of messages, as well as to keep them open to interpretation (very important IMO).

As a basic example, DM almost never capitalizes the first letter of his sentences, and he rarely adds periods to his last sentence. For a long time I was correcting for these on my timeline, but lately I've been keeping the first letters lower case because that's more of a character trait than an error per se.

Some other unique things:

• MS always capitalizes the first letter, but he never uses apostrophes (I'm is Im, I'll is Ill or Il, etc.) I usually add the apostrophes, but I never change MS's character words like "tryna", "ina", "gunna", and "kno". His writing is colourful in a trashy/uneducated way ("I thought u was gunna be back in like 10 days").
• CN's writing tends to have decent grammar and style, but her spelling isn't great (e.g. "apperantly" and "presistant").
• MWJ's writing is just all around terrible. His writing is characterized by lots of run-on sentences and unique spellings like "thow", "hurd", and "stoopid". There's no mistaking his texts for somebody else's.
• SS asks lots of questions, but he never uses question marks!
• DM rarely uses "lol", while MS uses it a lot. IMO there's an awkwardness/insecurity behind MS's lols. It's kinda sad and pathetic in a way.

Dunno if any of this is interesting to anybody but myself, but at this point I've copied out so many texts that all the voices are swirling in my head! :gaah:

 

[huntergerrard]

Lisa Hepfner‏
@HefCHCHNews

"We had many trailers," Schlatman says. "As we established when you were juggling license plates," #Millard added.

I don't understand DM's line of questioning. Who cares about all the trailers and license plates? What's the point.

 

[huntergerrard]

That's for sure, especially when the other half is owned by weirdo DM!

I don't really understand. His present was half a car...did he share the other half with DM? So, he bought him a present, but has to share it? Like can only drive it some of the time? Geez.

 

[iPhoneGuy]

I don't really understand. His present was half a car...did he share the other half with DM? So, he bought him a present, but has to share it? Like can only drive it some of the time? Geez.

I'm thinking it was a project car... they share it, modify it, sell it and split the proceeds.
If they were into working on cars together, it isn't the worst gift...

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[Jealoushe]

Doesn't it?

Millard: "Another dead deer at the farm (website) has locations of stations that sell automative propane. your mission for this afternoon is to fill the incinerator's tank."

Schlatman responds "On way way."

What stands out is
* That it's another deer. Was there a deer before that, that he told SS about?
* The urgency of doing that.
Laughable. A self-proclaimed successful businessman drops everything and goes to the farm to incinerate a deer. I'm sure thousands of deers died on that land over the years and mother nature dealt with that just fine. But the pyromaniac needs to go and set the thing on fire.
* SS is on the way immediately - no questions asked.

SS knew or suspected there was illegal stuff going on (at least stealing). But I guess having the hangar to himself, no supervision, and having the monthly paycheck made him willfully blind. Is that what prosecutors are hinting at?

Honestly I've lived on a few farms for a long time with lots of land and have never ever seen a dead deer. I think it would be rare to find one let alone 2 in the same summer. DM is just full of it, and why would you burn it instead of leaving it for the coyotes?

I think DM and MS tried to modify the rocket ship, maybe the body didn't fit so they added a barrel. Still no luck so then needed the incinerator.

I also think there's another person who was burned in August. I bet DMs heart was racing when SS admitted something smelled terrible out there.

 

[Oreck]

Welcome, ChairCat! Thank you for your post. Great insight on DM's writing. That one text stood out to me, too, since it is uncharacteristic of DM to make such big spelling errors. And he usually corrects his errors in a subsequent text with an asterisk in front. He didn't do that in this case.

"meses a largar generator, will talks out that Wednesday"

This also raises an issue that I have often debated with myself in building the timeline: should I copy the messages verbatim, or should I edit the spelling, grammar, and formatting to make the timeline easier to read? I've done a bit of both over time (and not always been consistent), and sometimes I will go back and unfix edits that I've made in order to restore the character and tone of messages, as well as to keep them open to interpretation (very important IMO).

As a basic example, DM almost never capitalizes the first letter of his sentences, and he rarely adds periods to his last sentence. For a long time I was correcting for these on my timeline, but lately I've been keeping the first letters lower case because that's more of a character trait than an error per se.

Some other unique things:

• MS always capitalizes the first letter, but he never uses apostrophes (I'm is Im, I'll is Ill or Il, etc.) I usually fix the apostrophes, but I always leave in MS's character words like "tryna", "ina", "gunna", and "kno". His language is colourful, yet uneducated/trashy ("I thought u was gunna be back in like 10 days").
• CN's writing tends to have decent grammar and style, but her spelling isn't great (e.g. "apperantly" and "presistant").
• MWJ's writing is just all around terrible (intentionally or not). His texts are characterized by lots of run-on sentences and unique words like "thow", "hurd", and "stoopid". It would be super easy to pick his texts out of a crowd.
• SS asks lots of questions, but he never uses question marks!
• DM rarely uses "lol", while MS uses it a lot. There seems to be an awkwardness/insecurity behind MS's lols. It's kinda sad and pathetic in a way.

Dunno if any of this is interesting to anybody but myself, but at this point I've copied out so many texts that all the voices are swirling in my head! :gaah:

copy the messages verbatim so we can all see the style

 

[Satchie]

IIRC wasn't it known Schlattman assisted them in their missions and stealing of a bobcat or something and helped remove the GPS units ? I remember this from TB trial

That happened in October 2012, so I guess not pertinent to this case. But stay tuned, we will probably see Shaner again, he may testify in the Wayne Millard trial.

 

[Sossi]

I think TXdeed refers to - DM and MS use the burner phones to contact people who post things for sale - get txdeed is a double meaning - get texted by DM and MS in response to a kijiji or Craigslist post and they will do the “deed” - kill the person and steal whatever the person had posted for sale. Also, my gut reaction is that those purple slippers are Laura’s. This is all so sick and so sad.

<modsnip>

 

[Satchie]

I think TXdeed refers to - DM and MS use the burner phones to contact people who post things for sale - get txdeed is a double meaning - get texted by DM and MS in response to a kijiji or Craigslist post and they will do the &#8220;deed&#8221; - kill the person and steal whatever the person had posted for sale. Also, my gut reaction is that those purple slippers are Laura&#8217;s. This is all so sick and so sad.

<modsnip

SS was employed by MB to wind down the hangar and sell all the toys, which I think was reasonable, he knew about everything.

Good idea about TXDeed, I was wondering.

 

[huntergerrard]

I was saying that lifting the 100lb hinged top cover is no big deal. Body is harder, of course. LB wasn't super heavy though. Plus, the body lost weight due to evaporation and putrefaction. One way to deal with it is put the body on a substantial board, put a few loops of rope around. Then lift the board by two ends and place it on top of the open incinerator. Cut the rope and push the body off the board and inside.

I apologize for the graphic description. I'm totally disgusted myself and feel uncomfortable typing this.

Not saying this is the way i was done, but it's very manageable.

OMG...the board!

 

[huntergerrard]

It was AM and other friends that stood lookout for stealing the bobcat. SS removed the GPS on the bobcat AFTER the police came by asking questions as it had been traced to that location.

I still don't understand how they got away with that one. Wouldn't the police nose around a bit? Surely they had reason to.

 

[inbetweendoors]

Welcome, ChairCat! Thank you for your post. Great insight on DM's writing. That one text stood out to me, too, since it is uncharacteristic of DM to make such big spelling errors. And he usually corrects his errors in a subsequent text with an asterisk in front. He didn't do that in this case.

"meses a largar generator, will talks out that Wednesday"

This also raises an issue that I have often debated with myself in building the timeline: should I copy the messages verbatim, or should I edit the spelling, grammar, and formatting to make the timeline easier to read? I've done a bit of both over time (and not always been consistent), and sometimes I will go back and unfix edits that I've made in order to restore the character and tone of messages, as well as to keep them open to interpretation (very important IMO).

As a basic example, DM almost never capitalizes the first letter of his sentences, and he rarely adds periods to his last sentence. For a long time I was correcting for these on my timeline, but lately I've been keeping the first letters lower case because that's more of a character trait than an error per se.

Some other unique things:

• MS always capitalizes the first letter, but he never uses apostrophes (I'm is Im, I'll is Ill or Il, etc.) I usually add the apostrophes, but I never change MS's character words like "tryna", "ina", "gunna", and "kno". His writing is colourful in a trashy/uneducated way ("I thought u was gunna be back in like 10 days").
• CN's writing tends to have decent grammar and style, but her spelling isn't great (e.g. "apperantly" and "presistant").
• MWJ's writing is just all around terrible. His writing is characterized by lots of run-on sentences and unique spellings like "thow", "hurd", and "stoopid". There's no mistaking his texts for somebody else's.
• SS asks lots of questions, but he never uses question marks!
• DM rarely uses "lol", while MS uses it a lot. IMO there's an awkwardness/insecurity behind MS's lols. It's kinda sad and pathetic in a way.

Dunno if any of this is interesting to anybody but myself, but at this point I've copied out so many texts that all the voices are swirling in my head! :gaah:

Excellent analysis - thank you!

What always strikes me is that DM requests a lot of SS, but he never says "please". At least via text.

I'm sure I'm just being overly critical...

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[kaRN]

Yes, I paid $250 a few years ago to have my pupper cremated. At the time they offered a cheaper alternative, which I found a little strange, but maybe a viable alternative for others... apparently they will do a “mass cremation” whereby they do a few animals at once and then split up the ashes among the different owners. The cost of that was $50. Not something I was interested in, but I’m thinking DM would have to do an awful lot of pets to reach his goal of 100K per month!

i would assume (and hope) that uncle will testify again to dispute this ridiculous business plan?!

Medical waste including amputated limbs etc
Is burned on site at hospitals in Ontario. By law, it has to be burned at night because it generates a black smoke and is unsightly. I'm thinking crematoriums operate the same way. I seriously doubt a mobile operation can just park on some urban street or in a parking lot, day or night and cremate pets. I can't wait to hear from his uncle!!!


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[tommyR]

Yep, here we go again. Dell's pals minimizing their participation in these crimes.

Agree 100%. But wouldn't every single one of us do the same in such a situation. I think yes.

 

[Bluepopsicle]

Medical waste including amputated limbs etc
Is burned on site at hospitals in Ontario. By law, it has to be burned at night because it generates a black smoke and is unsightly. I'm thinking crematoriums operate the same way. I seriously doubt a mobile operation can just park on some urban street or in a parking lot, day or night and cremate pets. I can't wait to hear from his uncle!!!

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I am looking forward to hearing from his uncle as well! I didn&#8217;t follow along during the Bosma trial unfortunately, only read about it after the fact, but I heard about the uncle&#8217;s disdain for DM. I often wish that some Canadian trials were televised, it would be fascinating (albeit maddening) to watch this one. I noticed your signature &#8220;Injustice for Caylee Anthony&#8221;, and man, does that ever bring up feelings of anger in me every time I think about it. I watched that trial from start to finish, and even now, years later, I&#8217;m still in disbelief and utter disgust over that verdict. I have faith that this jury will bring justice to these two *******s however!

 

[MsSherlock]

Honestly I've lived on a few farms for a long time with lots of land and have never ever seen a dead deer. I think it would be rare to find one let alone 2 in the same summer. DM is just full of it, and why would you burn it instead of leaving it for the coyotes?

I think DM and MS tried to modify the rocket ship, maybe the body didn't fit so they added a barrel. Still no luck so then needed the incinerator.

I also think there's another person who was burned in August. I bet DMs heart was racing when SS admitted something smelled terrible out there.

I'm with you on that. Lived on farms for half of my life and never saw a dead deer unless it had been road kill and as a note, when someone hits a deer, they seldom just drive away. There's usually considerable damage to the vehicle. People would remember hitting a deer and unless he's able to pull up a couple people from the area to state they hit a deer on Roseville during the spring/summer of 2012, I don't buy the story at all. Also, I don't believe deer hunting season is open at that time of the year, so I don't think there's a chance of a hunter losing sight of their target. And thinking about my farm life, there were never dead animals unless they were livestock. There's a massive population of coyote's & wild dogs- they zoom in on the weak and dead with same day service.

That brings me to keeping a body in a barn for any length of time. I had 2 dogs- a lab and german shepherd. My neighbouring farm was a large dairy operation. My farmer neighbour lost a calf at birth and for some reason buried it along one of his fence lines. It was about half a mile from my house and in short order, my lab bolted from my back yard to return about a half an hour later carrying an intact calf's leg. The dairy farmer was the first person I went to because it was a holstein leg and I was worried that my dog had actually killed a calf- the farmer friend told me what he had done. The calf had been buried for 3-4 weeks and he figured the coyotes would have looked after it.

So this is my point. A dead body in a barn in the middle of summer would be decomposing and smelling to the point of having coyote and even neighbouring dogs circling in mass, even if humans couldn't smell it. So IMHO, DM would have had to use something a bit more airtight- like a barrel or two, or a freezer to store the body in until they could get the incinerator into operation. Maybe 2 barrels that required 2 burns? Otherwise, without a 24 hour watch over the barn, the coyote's and dogs would have been going nuts. MOO

 

[redwing7225]

I'm with you on that. Lived on farms for half of my life and never saw a dead deer unless it had been road kill and as a note, when someone hits a deer, they seldom just drive away. There's usually considerable damage to the vehicle. People would remember hitting a deer and unless he's able to pull up a couple people from the area to state they hit a deer on Roseville during the spring/summer of 2012, I don't buy the story at all. Also, I don't believe deer hunting season is open at that time of the year, so I don't think there's a chance of a hunter losing sight of their target. And thinking about my farm life, there were never dead animals unless they were livestock. There's a massive population of coyote's & wild dogs- they zoom in on the weak and dead with same day service.

That brings me to keeping a body in a barn for any length of time. I had 2 dogs- a lab and german shepherd. My neighbouring farm was a large dairy operation. My farmer neighbour lost a calf at birth and for some reason buried it along one of his fence lines. It was about half a mile from my house and in short order, my lab bolted from my back yard to return about a half an hour later carrying an intact calf's leg. The dairy farmer was the first person I went to because it was a holstein leg and I was worried that my dog had actually killed a calf- the farmer friend told me what he had done. The calf had been buried for 3-4 weeks and he figured the coyotes would have looked after it.

So this is my point. A dead body in a barn in the middle of summer would be decomposing and smelling to the point of having coyote and even neighbouring dogs circling in mass, even if humans couldn't smell it. So IMHO, DM would have had to use something a bit more airtight- like a barrel or two, or a freezer to store the body in until they could get the incinerator into operation. Maybe 2 barrels that required 2 burns? Otherwise, without a 24 hour watch over the barn, the coyote's and dogs would have been going nuts. MOO

BBM.....very valid points here regarding the dogs/coyotes. Freezer, there was no hydro at the barn iirc, so that option is out.