Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.12.17 - Final Charge - *Verdict Watch*

[NoodlesMcgee]

At the very least they should have suspected something. AM questioned Millard about it early. MM heard Smich’s rap and probably could have put 2 & 2 together. There was also a text between Millard and Smich expressing concern that too many people knew and that they had to keep it on the down low. Sometimes saying nothing speaks volumes. They knew that a onetime member of their clique was missing and none of them mention her?


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From all we know LB and MM had never met. AM knew her but again if a girl who is escorting, doing drugs and suffering from mental illness goes missing I'm not going to assume my best friend killed her.

 

[gremlingrrl]

I can't seem to edit on my device. Apologies for the multiple posts. In any case, this, from the link above, is rich:

"Mr. Pillay submits that the incinerator evidence is prejudicial and does not advance the proposition that the accused committed a planned and deliberate murder as opposed to another offence."

 

[WideAwake]

A a aa wd


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[gremlingrrl]

My post with the link has disappeared... I'm not sure if I inadvertently deleted it. It was a link to published material. Anyhow, here is the link:

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2015/2015onsc6437/2015onsc6437.html

 

[gremlingrrl]

And my earlier comment:

I know it's been mentioned in this thread, but I can't find the post to quote and jump off: It will be interesting to read the CanLII docs on the various pre-trial items once they're made available ie no longer under ban (if they aren't already). There will be (much) more content, depth and context there, particularly with the legal rationale behind what was decided.

Some of the motions put forward by the defense in the Bosma trial were..... interesting. It's possible that I missed related discussion (whether in MSM or here), but, for example, I was stunned to read that the use of the incinerator was part of the post-offence conduct that the defense tried to have argued out.

(I've linked this above.)

I'd also like to share some of my observations on DM's behaviour in court once I've cleared with the mods that it's okay to do so at this point.

 

[Spartygirl]

I finally got caught up last night, reading all the posts and clicking on all the links/news articles and read each one. This thing called "work" keeps getting in my way of being able to follow along LOL..not complaining, at least I have a job I love and today, since we had 8 inches of snow last night and we aren't plowed out yet, I can work from home and try to follow along.
I want to shout out a HUGE Thank you to all that posted the tweets during trial, and for all of you contributing to the discussions here. You all are a Great group full of compassion and here for a reason.
Bless this Jury and Mr & Mrs Babcock ( and I did read that the Bosmas are there for support, Bless them also)
I am hoping Today is the day we hear from the Jury and that Justice is served !!!

 

[clefk27]

One wonders when a Google of ‘Dellen Millard’ will no longer yield a bio describing him as a ‘Canadian aircraft pilot’ but more appropriately as a ‘Serial killer’.
I know Google will do anything for money but this is a bit outrageous.

 

[andreww]

From all we know LB and MM had never met. AM knew her but again if a girl who is escorting, doing drugs and suffering from mental illness goes missing I'm not going to assume my best friend killed her.

Maybe you'd suspect the guy that asked you to stalk her? The guy that had an issue with her? The guy that liked to hurt her during sex? Nah, you're right, why would he suspect good ole Dell?

 

[Just4TB]

One wonders when a Google of ‘Dellen Millard’ will no longer yield a bio describing him as a ‘Canadian aircraft pilot’ but more appropriately as a ‘Serial killer’.
I know Google will do anything for money but this is a bit outrageous.

I have begun working on changing it. If each other member here clicks on "feedback" below the description, and submits why Google ought to change it, they will.

 

[Grey-St]

I'd also like to share some of my observations on DM's behaviour in court once I've cleared with the mods that it's okay to do so at this point.

RSBM.

So looking forward to this! Thank you for your insight.

 

[andreww]

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...girlfriend-says-millard-made-sexual-advances/

Menses said very little other than what she claimed MS told her about who shot TB. The "celebratory" information got added a week before the trial but she claims that neither of them said a thing about the theft or the murder during that car ride. If we go back to her testimony, she said very little of what she saw and heard or overheard about anything criminal. Most of her testimony in the TB trial was about how she met MS, her life with him and was only negative towards DM with regards to the murder. She wants everyone to believe that in the entire time she lived with MS, she never overheard or was involved in any "mission" conversations or any conversations about two murders and incinerations, one of which she actually attended. She provided no testimony about anything she saw or heard in that entire time. She didn't smell anything "off" the night they allegedly picked up a body that had been lying in a hot barn for almost three weeks. Nothing.

She was constantly with them. She was with them before, during and after the LB murder. She was with them before and after the TB murder. The last person MS spoke to on his phone before the murder was her. She revealed not one thing about anything she had ever been privy to.

IMO, it defies logic to believe she didn't know everything that was going on or that MS never confided anything in her other than DM shot TB while they were trying to steal a truck. Even the information about the illegal border smuggling and shooting guns at the farm was dragged out of her by DM in this trial. Did she ever tell LE about any of that?

I don't believe she was forthcoming at all with regards to her interviews and testimony on both of these murders. She only gave information that was not incriminating to her and showed "remorse" for not going to LE right away with that limited information and instead waited until they arrested her. At which time she told them things that incriminated DM only.

MOO

Thank you! I'm glad there is at least one other person that doesn't only see MM through rose coloured glasses.

 

[Grey-St]

Thank you! I'm glad there is at least one other person that doesn't only see MM through rose coloured glasses.

I think there's many folks that support your view, Andreww. But I'd argue that those who see it or interpret the evidence differently, don't actually see MM through "rose coloured glasses".

We all bring different experiences to the table, that's what makes a good discussion forum.

 

[mimimic]

Highly unlikely. MS worshipped DM. That’s clear from their texts. I think it was just MS making a joke. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, gang.

You could possibly be right, but I think it is to be inferred to mean something otherwise, much like the spliff and MM possibly parading around in LB's possessions. These were in included into evidence for some reason. Also note one pic of MM she has two bras on at the same time.

 

[andreww]

That they seemed happy is a pretty whopping big piece of evidence. And again, there is absolutely nothing that indicates she had any prior knowledge of a murder. This is a leap you make based on your belief she was "begging" and that she had acted differently at prior thefts, but I see no evidence to support either of these hypotheses.

From Kamille's post...

Meneses knew on May 6, 2013 that Smich and Millard had plans to steal a truck, the jury has heard. And the next morning, they told her that their "mission" had been successful.
She'd begged Smich not to do it, she says. She thought it was a stupid idea — Millard was rich, she figured. He had no reason to steal a truck.
Smich, on the other hand, needed money. Millard knew that, she says, and she thought he was "using" him.

So does this change your outlook? If my belief is not misguided, it follows that the rest of my deductions should make sense right?

 

[Jealoushe]

I have begun working on changing it. If each other member here clicks on "feedback" below the description, and submits why Google ought to change it, they will.

Super, just sent some feedback on that.

 

[Velma]

I have begun working on changing it. If each other member here clicks on "feedback" below the description, and submits why Google ought to change it, they will.

Thank you for the tip, I just did it!

 

[Velma]

Thank you! I'm glad there is at least one other person that doesn't only see MM through rose coloured glasses.

I’m with you both.

 

[gremlingrrl]

RSBM.

So looking forward to this! Thank you for your insight.

Thanks. I've sent a note to an admin. I'm treading carefully here, and want to be sure I'm on-side with protocol and policy (both from a legal perspective, and also that of WS).

 

[mimimic]

From all we know LB and MM had never met. AM knew her but again if a girl who is escorting, doing drugs and suffering from mental illness goes missing I'm not going to assume my best friend killed her.

Although it seems AM did assume that as he "jokingly" sent the missing poster to DM

 

[Grey-St]

From Kamille's post...



So does this change your outlook? If my belief is not misguided, it follows that the rest of my deductions should make sense right?

I don't see how a journalists choice of words can be interpreted as evidence.

In any sense, whether she "begged" him or not, I don't see what it proves? I tend to agree with Abro, that it's a leap to assume she had prior knowledge of a murder, just because you take the position that she in fact "begged him" not to go. JMO though.