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The Bahamas let Karla Homolka in, then Canada let her come back! So idkWill the U.S.A. or someplace like The Bahamas let her in with a criminal record ?
IMO
The Bahamas let Karla Homolka in, then Canada let her come back! So idkWill the U.S.A. or someplace like The Bahamas let her in with a criminal record ?
IMO
Will the U.S.A. or someplace like The Bahamas let her in with a criminal record ?
IMO
I was just going to grab a well-deserved orange (settled for an apple) and remembered MS asking DM to bring "the orange guy" the day before TB's murder. The consensus was that it's one of the synthetic opioids. Hurt shoulder, heroin, "orange guy", "black tar". I wonder if MS was addicted to opioids, and DM used his supply to achieve MS's compliance. Did he really leave beers at the stairs? Was MWJ also providing the heavier drugs? May be the drug addict - drug provider component was the true foundation for their "brotherhood".
Bring "the orange guy" could have meant the opposite of opiates, it could have very well meant amphetamine, in the form of Dexedrine. Dexedrine comes in orange pills. I have suspected that DM used amphetamines. Someone once said somewhere, possibly not here, but on the Facebook group or some other comment section that DM looked like a meth addict. People who become reliant or addicted to amphetamine in the legal prescription pill form can sometimes look like meth addicts. Since there has been information that DM was a problematic child and student, I wouldn't doubt for a minute that he would have been diagnosed or labelled ADHD as a child. It explains his long stints without sleeping, grandiose ideas, yes I know that also goes along with malignant narcissism and psychopathy, but also could explain that after no sleep and further Dexedrine or other amphetamines that he could have reached psychosis while performing the murders. I also noted a post on CN's instagram with a bowl of pills - most white and some blue. Her post said something about one is a placebo and one is a drug. The blue and turquoise pills in the bowl in the picture look exactly like Vyvanse, which is now the amphetamine of choice for prescribing doctors. It fits - one would not do opiates when needing to pull an all nighter and incinerate a body and clean up evidence. It also goes along with what DM wrote in a letter to CN "we don't like cocaine". No need for it frankly, if one has a legal or illegal source of amphetamines. Looking at Smich's face in front of the incinerator, he surely looks like someone on a stimulant, not an opiate. IMO
Bring "the orange guy" could have meant the opposite of opiates, it could have very well meant amphetamine, in the form of Dexedrine. Dexedrine comes in orange pills. I have suspected that DM used amphetamines. Someone once said somewhere, possibly not here, but on the Facebook group or some other comment section that DM looked like a meth addict. People who become reliant or addicted to amphetamine in the legal prescription pill form can sometimes look like meth addicts. Since there has been information that DM was a problematic child and student, I wouldn't doubt for a minute that he would have been diagnosed or labelled ADHD as a child. It explains his long stints without sleeping, grandiose ideas, yes I know that also goes along with malignant narcissism and psychopathy, but also could explain that after no sleep and further Dexedrine or other amphetamines that he could have reached psychosis while performing the murders. I also noted a post on CN's instagram with a bowl of pills - most white and some blue. Her post said something about one is a placebo and one is a drug. The blue and turquoise pills in the bowl in the picture look exactly like Vyvanse, which is now the amphetamine of choice for prescribing doctors. It fits - one would not do opiates when needing to pull an all nighter and incinerate a body and clean up evidence. It also goes along with what DM wrote in a letter to CN "we don't like cocaine". No need for it frankly, if one has a legal or illegal source of amphetamines. Looking at Smich's face in front of the incinerator, he surely looks like someone on a stimulant, not an opiate. IMO
I think MS's drug of choice was of the opiate variety - oxy's I think it has been written. DM very well could have been controlling MS through giving him money to obtain oxy's, or directly, with oxy's or heroin (as per the text message the night/morning of Laura Babcock's murder). I suspect both DM and CN were reliant or dabbled in abusing amphetamines. And I think MS may have requested DM bring it (little orange guy) to provide the necessary energy, stamina and wakefulness to perform what they had planned to be an all nighter on the night they killed Bosma (one of the texts from DM to CN said if the mission was successful it would be an all nighter). Yes, they are highly highly addictive, similar, the same or more addictive than opiates. Abusing them can cause extreme euphoria, sleeplessness, sexual inhibition (CN). Once one becomes reliant on them, they can become desperate to continue their supply. I suspect DM controlled MS with money, cannabis, and opiates. As I stated previously, I strongly suspect DM, and CN, dabbled in, or relied on prescription amphetamines.Great info. Do amphetamines cause as strong addiction as opiates? I remember hearing years ago about somebody who was taking ephedrine (?). I believe it's from the same group. And the highs were short and intensive. The person had to get high several times a day and that got him to the finals in no time.
Do you think that access to that stuff could be effectively used by DM to control MS?
If she were to ever try to practice medicine here I think the media will out her. Holmoka changed her name too but it did not stop the media from finding her. CN face has been plastered all over, I don't think it will be easy to not be recognized by someone. I hope they hound her for the rest of her life.Her instagram is not necessarily a true representation of what she really does.
But even then. Don't forget that her parents are from the former USSR. Perhaps that makes some difference to the way they look at her financial dependence. As a single young person, she could travel in relative comfort for 2-3-4 grand a month. People travel for much less. Upper limit - 50K for a year? A substantial, but not an exorbitant amount.
For her further plans, if she plans to pursue MD. Her best bet is to to education in Poland, pass certification in the US, and settle some place there. She won't be able to completely disappear, but will anybody be looking for her in 10 years? She might have changed her name in the Ukrainian passport by now and use that for diplomas, etc. In a few years she'll get a pardon or something. Having her hang around in Canada invites trouble - more pictures that spread quickly on the internets, etc. Is 50K too much to pay for the chance?
The reality is that it's the outcomes, not intentions or circumstances, that matter the most.
It is very true that anybody we know could also be in the position any of them involved with DM were.That’s generally true after the fact, though intention is a critical part of law - think degrees of murder, for example. Nonetheless it’s certainly true that the law deals with people based on their actions, and that the damage they do and the victims they create aren’t mitigated by anyone’s circumstances, or the how and why of what people ultimately do.
But for those of us on the outside I think it’s a missed opportunity to not understand how ordinary most of the people that surrounded Millard were, how extraordinary a situation they were in because of Millard’s severe personality disorder, and how those things combine to create predictable results despite the sense of disgust people feel with both their actions and inactions. They are not unique - in the right circumstances they could be you, me, they could be anyone on this forum. They could be our kids, or our siblings or our friends.
Imagine trying to cast this tragedy from any given chunk of the GTA. There would be thousands of Michalskis and Hagermans who could be eased into the paths they took because the things Milkard leveraged like belonging, friendship and loyalty are such universal things.
There would be hundreds of Meneses and Schlatman’s, and dozens of Smichs and Noudgas, all who could be bent towards Millard’s dreams and schemes through very human processes and their own inherent and not uncommon flaws. It was Millard who was the rare, independently dangerous bird. Like Bernardo, we were destined to learn his name no matter who he met to fill roles dozens could have filled.
isPeople who wonder what any of these people saw in Millard need look no farther than the nuances of how any one of them was manipulated. Find that and you’ll know what critical things he offered them and just how he met needs, sometimes needs he himself created. Over and over we’ve learned though history and the psychology lab that even when strongly present, morality and character does not protect against immoral actions in every case. The rarity of the kind of profoundly psychologically challenging circumstances discussed here means most of us will escape any consequence of being sure we’re so different from any of these people, that our friends and loved ones are so different from any of these people. But life is such that that is not guaranteed, and some of us may someday wish we had better armed ourself with knowledge to protect ourselves or those we love from drifting by degrees to somewhere we never intended to be.
If she were to ever try to practice medicine here I think the media will out her. Holmoka changed her name too but it did not stop the media from finding her. CN face has been plastered all over, I don't think it will be easy to not be recognized by someone. I hope they hound her for the rest of her life.
Thats generally true after the fact, though intention is a critical part of law - think degrees of murder, for example. Nonetheless its certainly true that the law deals with people based on their actions, and that the damage they do and the victims they create arent mitigated by anyones circumstances, or the how and why of what people ultimately do.
But for those of us on the outside I think its a missed opportunity to not understand how ordinary most of the people that surrounded Millard were, how extraordinary a situation they were in because of Millards severe personality disorder, and how those things combine to create predictable results despite the sense of disgust people feel with both their actions and inactions. They are not unique - in the right circumstances they could be you, me, they could be anyone on this forum. They could be our kids, or our siblings or our friends.
Imagine trying to cast this tragedy from any given chunk of the GTA. There would be thousands of Michalskis and Hagermans who could be eased into the paths they took because the things Milkard leveraged like belonging, friendship and loyalty are such universal things.
There would be hundreds of Meneses and Schlatmans, and dozens of Smichs and Noudgas, all who could be bent towards Millards dreams and schemes through very human processes and their own inherent and not uncommon flaws. It was Millard who was the rare, independently dangerous bird. Like Bernardo, we were destined to learn his name no matter who he met to fill roles dozens could have filled.
People who wonder what any of these people saw in Millard need look no farther than the nuances of how any one of them was manipulated. Find that and youll know what critical things he offered them and just how he met needs, sometimes needs he himself created. Over and over weve learned though history and the psychology lab that even when strongly present, morality and character does not protect against immoral actions in every case. The rarity of the kind of profoundly psychologically challenging circumstances discussed here means most of us will escape any consequence of being sure were so different from any of these people, that our friends and loved ones are so different from any of these people. But life is such that that is not guaranteed, and some of us may someday wish we had better armed ourself with knowledge to protect ourselves or those we love from drifting by degrees to somewhere we never intended to be.
He told the version of truth that blamed DM for everything that is all he did. At least he did confess they put Tim Bosma s body in the incinerator. By telling the version of the crime scene he did it was not going to let him off of M1. He planned with DM to lure Tim Bosma to his death, he assisted DM to get the incinerator ready to dispose of Tim Bosma, so by testifying it was not going to help him. IF anything I think it made the jury dislike him more.
His version of the murder may not even be the truth he could have been the one that shot Tim Bosma.
Replying with Quote, respectfully, because a "Thanks" just isn't enough.
I couldn't agree with you more.
All the more reason, I think, that common folk were drawn to the players (I hate calling them that) of this crime -- the crime itself (TB especially) made you feel vulnerable because it was clear as day that it could have been any one of us. I sold my car privately shortly after his murder -- a sports car with 2 seats only -- and with the actions of this event in my mind I handed the guy and his father over my keys instead of going with him. Prior to this, I am almost 100% certain either myself or my spouse would have gone on the test drive.
Moreover, and likely more subconsciously -- exactly what you have detailed: His circle could easily have been any one of us.
I could have been a Noudga.
Sexually uninhibited, spending time with a man I knew was somewhat unhinged, making poor decisions -- all the while being gainfully employed (by my university, no less) and acquiring 2 degrees.
I could have been a Babcock.
Some of the texts LB sent fiending for attention from the unrequited DM ... I remember behaving similarly when I was younger. A distorted reality that by making yourself sound appealing to others (where LB said to DM she met a guy and may be getting married, very shortly after splitting from SL), you may draw back the attention of the fella who has rendered you no longer a priority. Such a false, misguided narrative.
I was level-headed enough to know my worth, my boundaries and to know when to walk away before either situation became too precarious.
But still -- I look at this case very objectively, relating to a lot of people involved.
Your post hits the nail right on the head for me.
Thanks for sharing.
Nice that I came to read only this post and silly billy's, it seems a while since I logged on(but not as long as it should be)but glad- only these...so in quiet contemplation and a tear:tears::heartbeat: with you Tealgrove - I agree. I have only driven by there twice in my life. so hard to believe this happened.I had to pick up my dog from Boarding today and as it happens I drove past the "Barn" on Roseville Rd. I've driven past many times as it's on my route to various places I frequent. Today I stopped and sat quietly for a bit. I realized that I had driven past the barn probably twice while Laura lay in that barn all rolled up in a tarp. Today the sadness of what happened to Laura really hit home.
Nice that I came to read only this post and silly billy's and it seems a while...so in quiet contemplation and a tear with you Tealgrove I agrea
I am so glad that these two deviants have been found guilty again. I'm going to hold out hope that Judge Code sentences them consecutively. They deserve it; both of them. They are both not worthy of living in our society.
MOO
People fresh out of school don't get lots of credit. And they have even more problems when they have a criminal record.
The Crown is not gifting Christina Noudga a ticket. She didn't use it so the ATtorney General gets its money back. That's how business travel works. When your business trip is cancelled, your company doesn't just say, "Hey no biggie. Use the ticket for your next vacay." They get a refund.
I don't know why people here are pretending that the lifestyle portrayed on Noudga's Instagram is accessible to a student who's not independently wealthy because it's not. Simple arithmetic will tell you that.
People fresh out of school don't get lots of credit. And they have even more problems when they have a criminal record.
The Crown is not gifting Christina Noudga a ticket. She didn't use it so the ATtorney General gets its money back. That's how business travel works. When your business trip is cancelled, your company doesn't just say, "Hey no biggie. Use the ticket for your next vacay." They get a refund.
I don't know why people here are pretending that the lifestyle portrayed on Noudga's Instagram is accessible to a student who's not independently wealthy because it's not. Simple arithmetic will tell you that.