LE Serves Warrant on Family Home #6

[vlpate]

The tub in the baby bed. I have tried to find the pictures again, but I believe there was a tub in the baby bed in pictures. If this is correct, and I can't find the pictures because every "inside lisa irwin home" search comes up with dozens of cadaver dog results. Anyway, is there a strap in the tub, or whatever was in the bed, that restrains the child?

I remember a social worker telling me once that one of her client's always had her baby in a car seat when she visited her. She would say it was just to keep her still so they could talk. The social worker thought it was strange, and made note of it, but of course couldn't be there 24/7 to see how often the baby was in the car seat.

My thought is this...what if DB put the baby in that tub or seat, honestly can't recall, to keep her from moving around and Lisa manuevered (sp) her way over the rails of the bed, she had to be strong, being thirty pounds and all.

I bathed mine in the sink and the tub, so I don't at all recall the baby tubs. Anybody?

 

[KCMommie]

It seems to me that the questionable topics, or open ended questions the LE has left for a reason. I remember Deb stating in an interview her 'neighbor' was a best friend. Did anyone see this too? It just struck me as a shallow comment. A ploy?

Also, something that struck me. The Grandparents interview. At the end of the interview they were asked what people can do to help. Watch BOTH of their faces! ESPECIALLY when he pauses then says, "pray for our family". You will have to view this more than once to catch both expressions. Do they know or suspect something? (please forgive I'm using my phone to communicate, otherwise I would post it for you!)

 

[AngelWings444]

The tub in the baby bed. I have tried to find the pictures again, but I believe there was a tub in the baby bed in pictures. If this is correct, and I can't find the pictures because every "inside lisa irwin home" search comes up with dozens of cadaver dog results. Anyway, is there a strap in the tub, or whatever was in the bed, that restrains the child?

I remember a social worker telling me once that one of her client's always had her baby in a car seat when she visited her. She would say it was just to keep her still so they could talk. The social worker thought it was strange, and made note of it, but of course couldn't be there 24/7 to see how often the baby was in the car seat.

My thought is this...what if DB put the baby in that tub or seat, honestly can't recall, to keep her from moving around and Lisa manuevered (sp) her way over the rails of the bed, she had to be strong, being thirty pounds and all.

I bathed mine in the sink and the tub, so I don't at all recall the baby tubs. Anybody?

There was a baby tub in the crib. It seemed very off to me for two reasons. One, why would you put a baby tub in a crib after your daughter is "kidnapped?" Two, Baby Lisa was 30 lbs, no way was she still fitting in that tub, it's for infants. JMO

 

[KellyConQueso]

I've read that too, in this case and way before. I used to be on the ACME Dog Board Forum (which was HUGE about a decade ago, SAR and other dogs) and have seen experienced dog trainers also state that.

You do have a percentage of dogs who won't hit on that, because they've been trained to rule that out, but you also have dogs that are just wrong in their "hits". Considering Deborah had a baby that year (and we moms know how messy bloody new moms are) I think it's completely plausible that post pregnancy dead blood was on her garments or even leaked out of her as she stood up from bed.

Gross, sorry, but those are decaying human cells.

The human body is constantly shedding dead and decaying cells - skin, hair, saliva(cough), boogers(sneeze), blood(scab), feces, urine, etc. HRD dogs signal on the gasses emitted from a decomposing body.

I have no idea if a HRD dog would signal on menstrual blood or not but it seems illogical to me unless there is some really weird process going on in my body that I am totally unaware of.

My point is (if I ever had one:crazy, is that it's important to differentiate between death and decomposition.

 

[not_my_kids]

The tub in the baby bed. I have tried to find the pictures again, but I believe there was a tub in the baby bed in pictures. If this is correct, and I can't find the pictures because every "inside lisa irwin home" search comes up with dozens of cadaver dog results. Anyway, is there a strap in the tub, or whatever was in the bed, that restrains the child?

I remember a social worker telling me once that one of her client's always had her baby in a car seat when she visited her. She would say it was just to keep her still so they could talk. The social worker thought it was strange, and made note of it, but of course couldn't be there 24/7 to see how often the baby was in the car seat.

My thought is this...what if DB put the baby in that tub or seat, honestly can't recall, to keep her from moving around and Lisa manuevered (sp) her way over the rails of the bed, she had to be strong, being thirty pounds and all.

I bathed mine in the sink and the tub, so I don't at all recall the baby tubs. Anybody?

It was a pink baby bathtub, IIRC. Sitting inside the crib, although LE may have put it there during the search. I have never seen a baby bath with a restraint strap, however, that doesn't mean they don't make them. I didn't look to see if the one in the pictures had a belt or not.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=lisa...tbnw=120&start=12&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:12
Pic of bathtub in crib.

 

[frankie069]

KCTVPhotog_Bill Bill Lindsay
by NimaKCTV5
The KCMO police helicopter just made 3 passes over the Irwin family home on Walrond and now it looks like it's headed to the Lister house.
1 hour ago

https://twitter.com/#!/NimaKCTV5

There is a prayer circle going on at DB and JI's home right now, that might be why???

EDIT: Oh I just noticed you said a police helicopter, I though you meant news helicopter.. Sorry about that.
Keep us informed please about what this could be about..

 

[norest4thewicked]

There was a baby tub in the crib. It seemed very off to me for two reasons. One, why would you put a baby tub in a crib after your daughter is "kidnapped?" Two, Baby Lisa was 30 lbs, no way was she still fitting in that tub, it's for infants. JMO

That stuff was probably under the crib, not being used, and LE probably put it there when they were searching. I don't see this as odd at all.

 

[KDB]

There was a baby tub in the crib. It seemed very off to me for two reasons. One, why would you put a baby tub in a crib after your daughter is "kidnapped?" Two, Baby Lisa was 30 lbs, no way was she still fitting in that tub, it's for infants. JMO

I think that picture was from way before... she seemed to be using the crib for "storage". I did that with both of my kids before they were born as I was accumulating stuff. As a matter of fact, right now, I have several things in my daughter's crib because she is still sleeping in our room. I have a few piles of her clothing that don't yet fit, along with some toys and other trinkets. Just haven't gotten around to finding a space for everything.

JMO.

 

[Seaturtle]

But I just wanted to say this: for those who are angry with posters who still can't come off the fence, please try to understand that there is no one here (as far as I can tell!) who is defending parents who kill their children. I think we (including me up until today) were just desperately clinging to any hope that Lisa was still alive. And if the parents were not involved, that was so much more likely, you know? It's not the first reaction of a compassionate person to believe that ANY parent could harm their own child and then 'dispose' of them like garbage (yes, even with CA and all the others as evidence) and those of us who haven't followed a bunch of these cases take a while to understand this. Please, don't hold it against people who don't want to believe in such evil.

My heart just hurts so much right now.

Respectfully snipped by me for space. I don't think there is any reason for "fence sitters" or "hoping for the besters" or "innocent until proven guiltyers" to think folks here are holding anything against them. I personally value this community for providing different perspectives and making all of us think this through. The one thing we all agree on is that we all want what is best for these children.

 

[scandi]

There should have been a trail of scent thru the house no? Where she died, where she was picked up to be bundled, as she was carried out of the house? I can't imagine that a person is able to kill, package and carry a dead body out of the house with it only leaving one spot with a scent

I guess one could logically say that spot by the bed is the ONLY place a dead body was set down on the floor. That is a dead body whose death scent had formed so it left a trail only at that spot. It just makes the most sense she died at that spot. There is no other spot that held her death scent. And there would be IMO, as there would have been another spot that was discernible if she had been moved after that scent formed.

I think whatever happened to baby Lisa happened around 10pm when the mother first said she put her to bed. Two hours pass by. At 12:15 a man is seen walking down the street with a baby by a gal who lives 3 doors down from the B's. That would give time for the death scent to develop and it makes sense to me. I also agree with ThoughtFox that this drunk mother might have laid the baby next to her and either she rolled over her or the baby turned over and fell on the floor. And the baby would lie there by the bed, unnoticed until around midnight when something sparked the mother awake. Maybe a need to go to the bathroom.

I wonder if the brother she bought the wine with was called on to remove the body from the house @ midnight and he tucked it somewhere temporarily. Then when Dad got home he was told and went and retrieved the body to place it in a more permanent place. A man was also reported walking down the road with a baby further out of town between 3:45 and 4am. Hmmmmmm

Just speculation. I don't think it will take much time for baby Lisa to be located. And within a mile of her house - walking distance. So sad.

 

[kljohnson0458]

The tub in the baby bed. I have tried to find the pictures again, but I believe there was a tub in the baby bed in pictures. If this is correct, and I can't find the pictures because every "inside lisa irwin home" search comes up with dozens of cadaver dog results. Anyway, is there a strap in the tub, or whatever was in the bed, that restrains the child?

I remember a social worker telling me once that one of her client's always had her baby in a car seat when she visited her. She would say it was just to keep her still so they could talk. The social worker thought it was strange, and made note of it, but of course couldn't be there 24/7 to see how often the baby was in the car seat.

My thought is this...what if DB put the baby in that tub or seat, honestly can't recall, to keep her from moving around and Lisa manuevered (sp) her way over the rails of the bed, she had to be strong, being thirty pounds and all.

I bathed mine in the sink and the tub, so I don't at all recall the baby tubs. Anybody?

It was said that family placed those items in the bed and I remember the pic as being a car seat.

 

[not_my_kids]

It was said that family placed those items in the bed and I remember the pic as being a car seat.

Definitely a baby bath. Pic is back a page.

 

[sarx]

Do we know that was the only place the dog(s) hit? Or is that the only place that was disclosed????? They're not gonna show us all their cards.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Any updates ? I see I am 10 threads behind ...:waitasec:

Have the "parents" or their "attorneys" issued a Statement ?

Has anyone been arrested yet ?

TIA !

:seeya:

 

[frankie069]

Parents and Lawyers answer to the warrant..

http://www.kmbc.com/download/2011/1021/29552279.pdf

 

[cluciano63]

The human body is constantly shedding dead and decaying cells - skin, hair, saliva(cough), boogers(sneeze), blood(scab), feces, urine, etc. HRD dogs signal on the gasses emitted from a decomposing body.

I have no idea if a HRD dog would signal on menstrual blood or not but it seems illogical to me unless there is some really weird process going on in my body that I am totally unaware of.

My point is (if I ever had one:crazy, is that it's important to differentiate between death and decomposition.

If these trained dogs hit on skin cells, old blood, etc. then they would hit on every home they ever went into...and would not be worth much of anything at all. I do not believe they hit on these items, JMO.

 

[Minette]

Respectfully snipped by me for space. I don't think there is any reason for "fence sitters" or "hoping for the besters" or "innocent until proven guiltyers" to think folks here are holding anything against them. I personally value this community for providing different perspectives and making all of us think this through. The one thing we all agree on is that we all want what is best for these children.

Thank you, Seaturtle, I could not agree more. I did see some posts in the other (now closed) thread that seemed to be going in that direction but I think the mods are all over that.

This whole thing is just heartbreaking. I don't know why Baby Lisa touched my heart so much or so quickly, I just know that she did. I don't want to believe ANYTHING could have happened to her. It goes against every good thing I want to believe about this world. :frown:

 

[Rooster27]

Also, something that struck me. The Grandparents interview. At the end of the interview they were asked what people can do to help. Watch BOTH of their faces! ESPECIALLY when he pauses then says, "pray for our family". You will have to view this more than once to catch both expressions. Do they know or suspect something? (please forgive I'm using my phone to communicate, otherwise I would post it for you!)

Yes, it struck me too. They seemed to be holding back just like JI in his interviews. He just stares straight ahead and seems reluctant to say anything. It is not the behavior of someone distraught and trying to get their baby back. The grandparents look lovely, but like their hands are tied. They didn't look happy to be interviewed. Which is understandable in any circumstance, but it was as if they were afraid to say something and just repeating what DB and JI said in their first press conference. The whole thing struck me as peculiar as well. It's as if they all know what is coming.

 

[vlpate]

From what I understand (I'm catching up as fast as I can), there was a "hit" on the floor in the parents bedroom. Do we know if the bedroom was carpeted? I'm guessing someone had to have carried the body, therefore clothing would also have a "hit" unless they were disposed of or burnt. If the carpet was the one they took out of the home the other day and put out on the front yard, apparently no dogs were seen by posters here at WS who were watching the livestream.

There isn't enough information right now to come to a conclusion except that it was enough for a judge to grant a search warrant. Maybe more will be revealed in the coming days....or not.

I'm just not comfortable with the one "hit" in one spot.

They also found purple shorts and a disney top - not sure if the top is the one DB described.

 

[~n/t~]

Do we know that was the only place the dog(s) hit? Or is that the only place that was disclosed????? They're not gonna show us all their cards.

That was the only place that was disclosed as far as I know. No dogs were seen (on camera) in the front or back yard when they did the 16 or 17 hour search but we know they had dogs someplace restricted by the media. Where that was, we do not know.

One hit isn't enough for me to say she is a suspect and that is all we have right now. I need more to call her a murderer.