Lee Anthony's Lawyer Exits Case/Lee's Immunity

[Mystic]

Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching
I am going back over the videos I found on WFTV of Lee's visits to find out exactly what was said and I will transcribe it here. I had no luck in finding the conversations on WS pertaining to what she said altho I know we did discuss it. It could be in relation to where she bought the phone, but if so...I missed it and will review that tape again. (It is taking forever because my videos only load a tiny bit at a time.)

If someone could help me look for it, I would be very appreciative since it is taking me so long here. Here are all the videos from Lee's visits:

http://www.wftv.com/news/18204436/detail.html

Dots~ I could be mistaken, but I just remember thinking at the time it was odd the way she said it.

I didn't have an opportunity to look today but will, thanks for the link.

I watched all the videos to see if anything stood out that could relate to the immunity. Although they attempted to talk in code it really didn't hold due to the doc dumps which had the cell records and websleuthers could ascertain who and what they were referring to. In the July visit Lee brings up finding a person that has validated some of these immaginery people. Importantly, in this visit I noted they had found an alternative way (by letters) to communicate. So if KC told him anything, it was thru those letters. Since Lee seemed to still appear to be searching for an alive Caylee based on KC's original story I think that it was after this visit that Lee recieved other info.

KC didn't take Lee's visits after this (that I know of).

 

[Mystic]

Thank you! It wasn't just me! Whew!

If you stand in the backyard of the A fam home...where Haleigh was found is in the "bottom left" of the field.

So were there two conversations about the phone and the store? One in the phone call and one in person?

Wasn't this jail conversation the same one where he was asking her where to look and Casey goes on about how Cindy would know since it would be familiar to the family? She also mentions to Lee that Caylee was "close" more than once, IIRC.

Exactly...who DOES talk like that?! No one. She has lived in Orlando a long time and she should know North, South, East, West at her age. She would have said, "in southwest Orlando" or "in the southwest part of town". No one says, "bottom left" when describing an area of a city. It simply isn't done...except in this particular case.

I have not seen anyone ask Lee about this information either which is truly disturbing. Couldn't someone just ask him directly if Casey was passing on information relative to Caylee's dump site? If you don't ask the right question, you cannot expect him to volunteer the answer, imo.

Yes, KC told Lee to get info from CA of all the places she mentioned in those 31 days. KC also had him all over the map with cities/states to look. Especially, the moments that KC would say, 'ahh let me think' (about things she should have known right off). Personally I think she was jerking his chain... all I could think of is 'HUGE WASTE' lol KC was getting a visit, it was some attention and taking her away from sleeping & reading and was probably annoyed that Lee was using it to question her. jmo I just really got KC was full of it and Lee was sincerely attempting to help her out.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Maybe when [if] he used the term "spilled it all" he quickly realized his mistake [too much info ] and said "nothing new" to downplay what he said.
Didn't Luka say something odd when her first became Lee's lawyer? Maybe it was about the immunity.I'm drawing a blank now,but I remember we discussed something about him and a slip up or too much info.
Anyone remember?

IIRC it was in reference to Caylee's parentage. Can't recall exactly.

There was another one of these slips in Luka's statement about LA's depo - something like Lee told everything he knows about his fathe...... his sister ....

Anybody catch that?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

OK, but how did it conveniently crash between when Cindy showed up to haul Casey home and when Lee picked it up? It evidently was working just fine when Casey was on the sofa next to Tony that day or someone would have mentioned the laptop was messed up, imo.

I do think Lee must have done something to the computer because Casey did not have time.

It's possible but so could TL or somebody else in that apt. TL shared with roomies. That is what we're hoping to find out through the various "under oath" testimonies. We don't know and can't blame LA because he's her brother. He came to his mother's aide and all h*ll broke loose. He was living his life as a 25 yr. old man and probably wasn't thinking about what his little sister was doing every day. Just saying - he could be more of a victim of circumstances then the parents are. Then he got swept up and in by it.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Maybe the real reason for Luka leaving the case is that LA did in fact "spill it all" against Luka's legal advice. In other words, he told the complete truth and because of what he divulged Luka feels he can no longer represent him. "Spill it all" is a very strange choice of words and IMO it's use denotes to me a certain amount of anger. His statement that there was "nothing different" is just Luka's way of saying that he didn't want to discuss anything further. I also find it very curious that this came to light immediately after the SA deposition of LA.

I googled "can lawyers quit" and found the following (resources.lawinfo.com)

Model Rules of Professional Responsibility - Put forth by the American Bar Association, a Lawyer may quit if,

1. the withdrawal will not produce a material adverse effect on the client's interests or if a good cause for the termination exists. :waitasec:

2. Detrimental Allowances - has knowledge that client is going to do something criminal or fraudulent and he has advised him not to but the client refuses and/or the client takes action deemed repugnant/fundamental disagreement/criminal or morally repugnant behavior/action and/or the client fails to pay/client refuses to cooperate.

A lawyer cannot just leave because he feels like it. This is pretty broad and tells us nothing about what has gone down between Lee and Luca - but it's one of these three things - ha! :crazy:

 

[mysteriew]

I googled "can lawyers quit" and found the following (resources.lawinfo.com)

Model Rules of Professional Responsibility - Put forth by the American Bar Association, a Lawyer may quit if,

1. the withdrawal will not produce a material adverse effect on the client's interests or if a good cause for the termination exists. :waitasec:

2. Detrimental Allowances - has knowledge that client is going to do something criminal or fraudulent and he has advised him not to but the client refuses and/or the client takes action deemed repugnant/fundamental disagreement/criminal or morally repugnant behavior/action and/or the client fails to pay/client refuses to cooperate.

A lawyer cannot just leave because he feels like it. This is pretty broad and tells us nothing about what has gone down between Lee and Luca - but it's one of these three things - ha! :crazy:

IF LA was intending to lie on the stand and TL had knowledge of it, then TL would have quit before the hearing. It is possible that LA might have said something before the hearing that caused TL to quit right before the hearing. Then he could have waited until the hearing was over to leave in order to keep that fact from the public. But I don't see him saying what he did about LA spilling everything if that was what happened. I might guess that failure to pay might be a possibility. The action deemed repugnant/fundamental disagreement/criminal or morally repugnant behavior is interesting. (I didn't know that defense attorneys ever felt moral repugnance.) TL is an experienced attorney, he would have represented every kind of criminal. So what a client might do probably wouldn't surprise TL. But perhaps LA was continuing to act against TL's advice and TL wasn't aware of his actions until the hearing. If he was pretty disgusted about the case already, this might have acted like a "last straw."

To me the term "spilled everything" seems to denote some disgust. Spilled everything is like what someone might say when they describe how a coworker turned into a snitch. Most attorneys would say things like he cooperated in the hearing, or he spoke openly and honestly with the state. I'm thinking that LA may have spilled everything he knew about everyone's actions. All of it what was happening before, after and since KC's arrest. And it may not have been 100% kosher. I'm thinking that TL may have directly advised against some of the actions that LA took.

For entertainment value I think that CA's depo will be interesting.
But for the meat of the case, I think that LA's depo will be the one to read.

Here is what is going to be interesting. CA has already given her depo. If it went as expected then she may have perhaps attempted some tricks, maybe tried to insert her own scenario. This may have been something arranged with GA. But along comes the LA depo and he "spilled everything." So what is GA going to do in his interview? Go with the prepared script knowing his son already spilled the beans? Or speak honestly?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I watched all the videos to see if anything stood out that could relate to the immunity. Although they attempted to talk in code it really didn't hold due to the doc dumps which had the cell records and websleuthers could ascertain who and what they were referring to. In the July visit Lee brings up finding a person that has validated some of these immaginery people. Importantly, in this visit I noted they had found an alternative way (by letters) to communicate. So if KC told him anything, it was thru those letters. Since Lee seemed to still appear to be searching for an alive Caylee based on KC's original story I think that it was after this visit that Lee recieved other info.

KC didn't take Lee's visits after this (that I know of).

I thought Lee pointed out there were 16 letters the A fam had written to Casey which were held up by Baez? To me it would indicate they had not set up an effective or alternative way to communicate and why I feel so much in those conversations were trying to relay information without tipping off anyone else. I guess if Casey put Baez on the spot for hiding her mail from her...then maybe she could communicate...but with the understanding she would only receive what he wanted her to receive. (How is it legal for a lawyer to hold up outside communications to the client?)

 

[SeriouslySearching]

It's possible but so could TL or somebody else in that apt. TL shared with roomies. That is what we're hoping to find out through the various "under oath" testimonies. We don't know and can't blame LA because he's her brother. He came to his mother's aide and all h*ll broke loose. He was living his life as a 25 yr. old man and probably wasn't thinking about what his little sister was doing every day. Just saying - he could be more of a victim of circumstances then the parents are. Then he got swept up and in by it.

I have never considered her parents as "victims of circumstance", but Lee could have been initially. I believe it changed tho and he took up the family vow of the five fingers.

 

[Kimster]

I didn't read this whole thread so please bonk me with a trout if this has been answered...

I don't know why Lee's attorney would step down? Even if he has immunity, he might still need an attorney later on! My family law attorney wouldn't just go out and announce she was no longer representing me, even though I don't need her right now. Why would the attorney make such an announcement? Even if his case is closed for now, why the announcement???

 

[Mystic]

I thought Lee pointed out there were 16 letters the A fam had written to Casey which were held up by Baez? To me it would indicate they had not set up an effective or alternative way to communicate and why I feel so much in those conversations were trying to relay information without tipping off anyone else. I guess if Casey put Baez on the spot for hiding her mail from her...then maybe she could communicate...but with the understanding she would only receive what he wanted her to receive. (How is it legal for a lawyer to hold up outside communications to the client?)

Yes, your right JB was holding back letters as well as not 'really' arranging a meeting for LE and KC. (he'd only sent a letter to LE saying they would be available) but no follow thru. Lee doesn't really hide the fact he wasn't impressed with JB imo and signalling to KC to perhaps look for a different attorney. Anyhow, at the time Lee mentioned sending letters thru JB and because he may not deliver, Lee also mentions using the letter system within the jail system.

Also, at the beginning of the July visit (i think it is) KC confirms letters have been received. So I do think they found a way to communicate to some degree. I agree completely that they were trying to talk in code so as to not tip anyone off... but it was so obvious.

I'm going to attempt to find the phone calls and see if there is something there.

 

[Mystic]

I didn't read this whole thread so please bonk me with a trout if this has been answered...

I don't know why Lee's attorney would step down? Even if he has immunity, he might still need an attorney later on! My family law attorney wouldn't just go out and announce she was no longer representing me, even though I don't need her right now. Why would the attorney make such an announcement? Even if his case is closed for now, why the announcement???

Perhaps back when there was talk of Lee being charged, Lee hired the attorney for that specific issue. you know CMA type of thing. And now that is done with the 'use immunity' and the depo taken, he is pretty much set for trial. The attorney probably wants to ensure 'just in case' with this family's antics that it's well known he is not representing Lee and his services have been rendered. Doesn't seem that Lee would need him now anyway.

 

[Patty G]

I didn't read this whole thread so please bonk me with a trout if this has been answered...

I don't know why Lee's attorney would step down? Even if he has immunity, he might still need an attorney later on! My family law attorney wouldn't just go out and announce she was no longer representing me, even though I don't need her right now. Why would the attorney make such an announcement? Even if his case is closed for now, why the announcement???

Lee's attorney indicated IF Lee needed him later on, he would represent Lee. Most attorney's once they completed their clients needs they go off the case.

 

[MissJames]

I didn't read this whole thread so please bonk me with a trout if this has been answered...

I don't know why Lee's attorney would step down? Even if he has immunity, he might still need an attorney later on! My family law attorney wouldn't just go out and announce she was no longer representing me, even though I don't need her right now. Why would the attorney make such an announcement? Even if his case is closed for now, why the announcement???

This case has drawn worldwide media attention.If LA is not following his lawyers legal advice consider how that could impact Luka's reputation if things go badly.
There is the Bar to consider.Ethics violations. He might want out before he gets quagmired in with the A's.
Other than JB I think the lawyers that took on this family had good intentions.They saw people being hounded and possibly felt they could stop them from making legal mistakes.If a client won't listen what is a lawyer to do? And this wasn't a family attorney who handles multiple items.Luka came on board to help Lee access immunity.
I don't know that this is the case with Lee and his lawyer,but like Mark N.,he probably sees the writing on the wall and refuses to go down with the ship.
I'm very curious if what Lee said in the depo had an impact on his decision to leave.

 

[MissJames]

Lee's attorney indicated IF Lee needed him later on, he would represent Lee. Most attorney's once they completed their clients needs they go off the case.

The confusion for me is that the case is a long way from being over. Why the announcement so soon after the depo .Actually I thought they wanted Lee to come back for more questions. It just seems such an odd time to say I'm done with my part. If he's willing to step back in why say anything at all right now?
Might it have been to signal that Lee has done all he can do?
I'm so confused

 

[Woe.be.gone]

IF LA was intending to lie on the stand and TL had knowledge of it, then TL would have quit before the hearing. It is possible that LA might have said something before the hearing that caused TL to quit right before the hearing. Then he could have waited until the hearing was over to leave in order to keep that fact from the public. But I don't see him saying what he did about LA spilling everything if that was what happened. I might guess that failure to pay might be a possibility. The action deemed repugnant/fundamental disagreement/criminal or morally repugnant behavior is interesting.(I didn't know that defense attorneys ever felt moral repugnance.) TL is an experienced attorney, he would have represented every kind of criminal. So what a client might do probably wouldn't surprise TL. But perhaps LA was continuing to act against TL's advice and TL wasn't aware of his actions until the hearing. If he was pretty disgusted about the case already, this might have acted like a "last straw."

To me the term "spilled everything" seems to denote some disgust. Spilled everything is like what someone might say when they describe how a coworker turned into a snitch. Most attorneys would say things like he cooperated in the hearing, or he spoke openly and honestly with the state. I'm thinking that LA may have spilled everything he knew about everyone's actions. All of it what was happening before, after and since KC's arrest. And it may not have been 100% kosher. I'm thinking that TL may have directly advised against some of the actions that LA took.

For entertainment value I think that CA's depo will be interesting.
But for the meat of the case, I think that LA's depo will be the one to read.

Here is what is going to be interesting. CA has already given her depo. If it went as expected then she may have perhaps attempted some tricks, maybe tried to insert her own scenario. This may have been something arranged with GA. But along comes the LA depo and he "spilled everything." So what is GA going to do in his interview? Go with the prepared script knowing his son already spilled the beans? Or speak honestly?

Bolded part above: :biggrin:

Ya the fact that CA gave her testmony first could really complicate things for the A's if Lee spilled the truth. I wonder why he wouldn't still need a Lawyer. We'll know if we hear he gets a new one that there's a situation brewing. Good points made as to why did Luca quit after the depo and did he know he was going to quit before the depo? Also Lee and him did not come out together after the depo as Luca had suggested earlier with their comments. Could that mean that something happened during and would Luca decide so quickly to withdraw?

This is all very intriguing.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I have never considered her parents as "victims of circumstance", but Lee could have been initially. I believe it changed tho and he took up the family vow of the five fingers.

Oh I know - I should have said "On July 15, 2008, when most of us thought . . . ."

Lee did seem to jump right in there and come to KC's assistance. At the beginning he may have wanted to believe that Caylee could be found alive. But then we have that weird message at the Memorial service, so . . . . .

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Sounds like to me Luka got out much as NeJames did. I mean, obviously until the trial is over and it is for certain there will be no charges for Lee he needs representation...But Luka is smart enough to roll on out while he has this chance.

My thoughts exactly. Immunity smunity, I still want an attorney beside me holding my hand making sure my rights are upheld, no funny business is goin' on and everything is on the up and up. Luka is jumpin' ship and pushin' women and children outta the way! IMHO

 

[milliac]

Bold mine.

Have we ever seen LA's interview with the FBI? I don't recall it being released yet. Perhaps when LA was interviewed by the FBI, he was more forthcoming with the truth than he was at the Morgan deposition...maybe that is what Luka is referring to when he says that LA "spilled it all" and "nothing was different"...maybe nothing was different from the FBI interview.

Mitzi, I too was thinking the same today. Why haven't we seen any thing regarding LA FBI interview?

 

[milliac]

If LA has any inkling that the defense bus is heading for his mom, I think LA is going to stand up for his mom before KA. Just look at his past gut reaction when GA asked him to go to the house (when CA was bringing KA home), on the phone when he told KA he wasn't going to put Mom through what she has done.

It reminds me a lot when my brother was young and I saw the carp he put them through. Typically I remained neutral and silent, and sometimes covered for him... but when he crossed the line I made a stand with with my parents I know he loves his six, but when push comes to shove, I think and HOPE he does the right thing.

 

[MissJames]

My thoughts exactly. Immunity smunity, I still want an attorney beside me holding my hand making sure my rights are upheld, no funny business is goin' on and everything is on the up and up. Luka is jumpin' ship and pushin' women and children outta the way! IMHO

I'm willing to give Luka a pass.He has to consider legal ethics and the possibility of complaints to the bar.If he feels his client is involving him in a continuation of a crime he should jump ship.
Again,don't know the circumstances and I'm hoping that's not the case,but it could be.

ETA: Luka may have had an agreement with Lee that his only role was to try and get Lee immunity.