Lies point us to the truth #2

[anonymiss]

Rain on my Parade,
It's JonBenet who is snacking pineapple not Burke. For all we know Burke may have disliked pineapple snacks.

Check the breakfast bar photographs and you can clearly see the pineapple bowl also contained condensed milk, JonBenet's preference.

The teabag in the glass suggests Burke made a cup of tea and deposited the teabag in the glass?

I reckon they all arrived back from the White's party and went their different ways with the kids heading for the breakfast bar and Patsy and John to whatever was on their minds.

Patsy obviously helped JonBenet to become ready for bed, dressing her hair etc.

I doubt Patsy served pineapple to JonBenet, not simply because the kids were up early the following morning, or bedwetting was a possibility, but because when the parents concocted their version of events Patsy, John or both would have realized the pineapple snack was a giveaway?

What is possible is Burke enticed JonBenet back downstairs, see Dr Phil, with the offer of a pineapple snack, etc.

Other inducements are also possible, i.e. anything BR had discovered on his gift opening search on Christmas Day afternoon?

BR and JonBenet left the breakfast bar as you might expect, there is nothing unusual to see here.

The unusual aspects are to be found in JonBenet's bedroom and the basement.

.

If BR enticed JBR to go back downstairs, PR could have caught JBR eating pineapple and got angry she was eating fruit so late due to their early morning trip and her bed wetting issues. PR could have lost her temper and accidentally harmed JBR.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The police bungled the case so bad from the beginning I doubt we could be sure whether there was an intruder or not.

OddOneOut,

The BPD definitely missed up big time that morning. It seems basic training that anytime a crime is committed; the scene is secured. Once the cops got there they should have sent everyone home and taken John and Patsy down to headquarters. None of that happed in a span of 7 hours. I say this is a huge coverup especially with JR had connections to governors and such = Missing phone records!

 

[DeDee]

Before Det Linda Arndt's arrival, she met a cop in a parking lot who passed her their booklet on How to Handle a Kidnapping! They were novices at this type of sophisticated crime.

Det Linda Arndt called BPD several times for back up. They were short staffed due to the Holiday, not that it would have mattered much.

She knew. She was counting her bullets.
.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

It's JonBenet who is snacking pineapple not Burke. For all we know Burke may have disliked pineapple snacks.

Check the breakfast bar photographs and you can clearly see the pineapple bowl also contained condensed
milk, JonBenet's preference.

UKGuy,

It’s Burke’s fingerprints that are found on the bowl. JB fingerprints are not on the spoon. Burke stated he liked pineapple. It was one of his favorites in his 1998 interview.

DS: So what kind of fruits would you typically have at home?
[BR: I wouldn't have fruit.
DS: You wouldn't?]
[...]
BR: Like pineapple maybe.
DS: Yeah, do you like that?
BR: Yeah.
DS: Okay. Is that your favorite fruit?
BR: Probably.

I personally can’t tell if the pineapple is with milk, cream or condensed by looking at it. Seems it has always been referred to as milk.

The teabag in the glass suggests Burke made a cup of tea and deposited the teabag in the glass?

His prints are found on the glass. Yet, there is still the question as to why an adult would give a bed wetting child; tea before bed? Was it hot tea or cold brewed tea?

Patsy obviously helped JonBenet to become ready for bed, dressing her hair etc.

It’s a girl thing … not adding more ponytails before bed. It creates knots.

Given that there were hair ties laying all over JB bedroom floor in front of her closet and not in the bathroom. It appears plausible that a hair tie was added to her hair (w/ green garland intertwined from the staircase) out of a chaotic mind to coverup the head injury (MOO).

I doubt Patsy served pineapple to JonBenet, not simply because the kids were up early the following morning, or bedwetting was a possibility, but because when the parents concocted their version of events Patsy, John or both would have realized the pineapple snack was a giveaway?

Obviously they did not realize the relevance of the pineapple as you have stated or they would have paid more attention to it. After all, it did remain there and wasn’t cleaned up by the advocates that morning. It was left for the CSI.

BR and JonBenet left the breakfast bar as you might expect, there is nothing unusual to see here.

Oh but there is. This blows a hole in the parents story that they went to bed after the kids were put to bed. Also JB consumed pineapple from the fridge with fruit cocktail when she got home. There is nothing to see at the table because it is unusual. Those remaining in the home the next morning would all say so. What’s that. Did you put it there? No, did I put it there? Who put it there? Who’s eating it? None of them seem to know?

The unusual aspects are to be found in JonBenet's bedroom and the basement.

Since Burke’s bedroom was neat and tidy compared to the rest of the house wouldn’t we have to ask why?

Which brings me to, “Why was that light turned off (in the Sunroom); if nothing happened on the first floor? And yes, the wine cellar and basement obviously was the torture chamber.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Before Det Linda Arndt's arrival, she met a cop in a parking lot who passed her their booklet on How to Handle a Kidnapping! They were novices at this type of sophisticated crime.

Det Linda Arndt called BPD several times for back up. They were short staffed due to the Holiday, not that it would have mattered much.

She knew. She was counting her bullets.
.

DeDee,

Perhaps at this particular crime but she was a detective and not a Police officer. She defiantly should have know basic procedure in a crime scene. As in secure it.

It was the holidays, they stated they were short staffed … yet here we have Officer French not bothering to open the wine cellar door? He touches it but doesn’t open it. We have a child missing! I guess we could lump them all into the keystone cops. But wait, we do have ST (prior drug enforcement) … Next he is head of the crime seem as lead investigator? Directives.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

It’s Burke’s fingerprints that are found on the bowl. JB fingerprints are not on the spoon. Burke stated he liked pineapple. It was one of his favorites in his 1998 interview.

DS: So what kind of fruits would you typically have at home?
[BR: I wouldn't have fruit.
DS: You wouldn't?]
[...]
BR: Like pineapple maybe.
DS: Yeah, do you like that?
BR: Yeah.
DS: Okay. Is that your favorite fruit?
BR: Probably.

I personally can’t tell if the pineapple is with milk, cream or condensed by looking at it. Seems it has always been referred to as milk.



His prints are found on the glass. Yet, there is still the question as to why an adult would give a bed wetting child; tea before bed? Was it hot tea or cold brewed tea?



It’s a girl thing … not adding more ponytails before bed. It creates knots.

Given that there were hair ties laying all over JB bedroom floor in front of her closet and not in the bathroom. It appears plausible that a hair tie was added to her hair (w/ green garland intertwined from the staircase) out of a chaotic mind to coverup the head injury (MOO).



Obviously they did not realize the relevance of the pineapple as you have stated or they would have paid more attention to it. After all, it did remain there and wasn’t cleaned up by the advocates that morning. It was left for the CSI.



Oh but there is. This blows a hole in the parents story that they went to bed after the kids were put to bed. Also JB consumed pineapple from the fridge with fruit cocktail when she got home. There is nothing to see at the table because it is unusual. Those remaining in the home the next morning would all say so. What’s that. Did you put it there? No, did I put it there? Who put it there? Who’s eating it? None of them seem to know?



Since Burke’s bedroom was neat and tidy compared to the rest of the house wouldn’t we have to ask why?

Which brings me to, “Why was that light turned off (in the Sunroom); if nothing happened on the first floor? And yes, the wine cellar and basement obviously was the torture chamber.

Rain on my Parade,

It’s Burke’s fingerprints that are found on the bowl.

Which is what you might expect if he fetched the pineapple from the fridge?

JB fingerprints are not on the spoon.

Which is not definitive as fingerprints are not always permanent, or JonBenet used another spoon, etc?

Burke stated he liked pineapple. It was one of his favorites in his 1998 interview.

Fine, if he is being truthful. Which offers the alternative interpretation that Burke and JonBenet snacked pineapple together, either from the same bowl or separate bowls, meaning one is missing?

Yet, if Burke sipped tea from a cup or mug, which is also missing, could be he washed up his bowl and cup, before heading for bed?

I personally can’t tell if the pineapple is with milk, cream or condensed by looking at it. Seems it has always been referred to as milk.

IMO, the contents have the texture that condensed milk assumes when left overnight?

I doubt its milk, it could be cream, but it also has a different texture from condensed milk?

His prints are found on the glass. Yet, there is still the question as to why an adult would give a bed wetting child; tea before bed? Was it hot tea or cold brewed tea?

I doubt Patsy or John ever looked into the breakfast bar, they both had other things on their minds.

I reckon the pineapple snack along with tea was Burke's idea. Apart from Patsy probably deciding against fluids, (e.g. pineapple has a high water content), Patsy had to realize their version of events, i.e. putting JonBenet straight to bed would be a non-starter due to Patsy serving pineaple and drinks?

Given that there were hair ties laying all over JB bedroom floor in front of her closet and not in the bathroom. It appears plausible that a hair tie was added to her hair

Sure, but not by the parents who went on to claim JonBenet was put straight to bed?

What would adding a hair-tie accomplish in the mind of any stager?

Since Burke’s bedroom was neat and tidy compared to the rest of the house wouldn’t we have to ask why?

Could be Fleet White helped tidy it up?


.

 

[proust20]

If in fact Patsy did buy both size 6 & 12 Bloomis, whoever redressed JB must have known that there were another Wed. pair somewhere in the house which could substitute for the ones that she wore originally. The panty drawer is a logical place to look. If BR were doing this, he'd need to be quick and quiet. It's unlikely he would have known that there were differing size sets. PR did know.

The packages with torn wrapping are too large to be mistaken for a box of Bloomis. They were not ripped in search of them. There was the gift wrap area by the laundry. I don't recall if there were unsent Christmas gifts there. There is only PR's word that she bought the size 12s for Jenny, as is that she kept them because the package was opened. Would that have prevented her from gifting them?

Running amiss of Holiday etiquette seems out of character for Patsy, who made a big deal out of Christmas - decorating, multiple trees, house tours, parties. Read her Christmas messages and wonder if this person would neglect her family, especially as she wished to be seen as the dispenser of largesse.

The size 6 Wed. are missing. They were incriminating. The body was wiped in order to remove something incriminating. As JB was wiped after she was dead and redressed, the person who did so would have had to pull down the size 12s. Whether the too large panties were noticeable under duress and as she lay prone is open. It might escape notice if you weren't aware for what to look? John probably didn't know about the two sets of Bloomis.

Patsy did seem exasperated by the findings of pineapple and the size 12s. The too large panties match up with the too large spoon, which she did note. Why would she think that fact explained anything?

If the ligature is staging, then the asphyxiation happened by other means. The head blow could be staging also, if she were strangled first. The dual means of lethality is most puzzling.

 

[UKGuy]

If in fact Patsy did buy both size 6 & 12 Bloomis, whoever redressed JB must have known that there were another Wed. pair somewhere in the house which could substitute for the ones that she wore originally. The panty drawer is a logical place to look. If BR were doing this, he'd need to be quick and quiet. It's unlikely he would have known that there were differing size sets. PR did know.

The packages with torn wrapping are too large to be mistaken for a box of Bloomis. They were not ripped in search of them. There was the gift wrap area by the laundry. I don't recall if there were unsent Christmas gifts there. There is only PR's word that she bought the size 12s for Jenny, as is that she kept them because the package was opened. Would that have prevented her from gifting them?

Running amiss of Holiday etiquette seems out of character for Patsy, who made a big deal out of Christmas - decorating, multiple trees, house tours, parties. Read her Christmas messages and wonder if this person would neglect her family, especially as she wished to be seen as the dispenser of largesse.

The size 6 Wed. are missing. They were incriminating. The body was wiped in order to remove something incriminating. As JB was wiped after she was dead and redressed, the person who did so would have had to pull down the size 12s. Whether the too large panties were noticeable under duress and as she lay prone is open. It might escape notice if you weren't aware for what to look? John probably didn't know about the two sets of Bloomis.

Patsy did seem exasperated by the findings of pineapple and the size 12s. The too large panties match up with the too large spoon, which she did note. Why would she think that fact explained anything?

If the ligature is staging, then the asphyxiation happened by other means. The head blow could be staging also, if she were strangled first. The dual means of lethality is most puzzling.

proust,

If in fact Patsy did buy both size 6 & 12 Bloomis

Only BPD know the answer to this one and they are not telling, I wonder why?

There is only PR's word that she bought the size 12s for Jenny,

All that matters is that she purchased Bloomingdale's size-12.

Who they were for is redundant information once they were put on JonBenet.

The size 6 Wed. are missing.

As are her pink pajama bottoms. BPD could tell us if they have a set of Bloomingdale's minus the Wednesday pair, but their not telling, I wonder why?

John probably didn't know about the two sets of Bloomis.

Way below his pay-grade, he could not care less about underwear.

The body was wiped in order to remove something incriminating. As JB was wiped after she was dead and redressed, the person who did so would have had to pull down the size 12s.

BBM: Possibly just alive, i.e. in a coma? Could be the paintbrush was used to assault JonBenet internally causing bleeding which required her to be wiped down?

If the ligature is staging, then the asphyxiation happened by other means. The head blow could be staging also, if she were strangled first. The dual means of lethality is most puzzling.

Yes, the head blow and ligature could be staging and probably are.

All part of the Foreign Faction smoke and mirrors agenda.

Most of the wine-cellar crime-scene is staged, a mix of dumped and rejected items contaminated with forensic evidence.

.

 

[anonymiss]

DrQ,
The pineapple remains found in JonBenet's stomach confirm Burke's claim that JonBenet walked into the house after the White's party, this is why it is so important.

It simply demonstrates that what the parents said about carrying JonBenet from the car, asleep, directly to her bedroom is false.

The bottom line is that all three Ramsey's forgot all about the pineapple, not even cleaning the breakfast bar, despite other areas recieving a cleansing.

This tells you JonBenet made it to her bed after snacking on pineapple along with Burke who enjoyed sipping his tea likely followed her.

.

 

[anonymiss]

@UKGuy....Maybe they didn't forget to clean up the pineapple and it was part of the cover up to give credence to the IDI theory. The cover up story could be the intruder fed JBR pineapple after she went to bed and was quietly (BR's word) taken out of her room. To advance the cover up, after JBR is found dead PR places a big spoon in the pineapple bowl so she can say she didn't serve JBR the pineapple, she would have never used that serving spoon, blah, blah, blah, so there was someone else in the house who gave it to JBR and killed her afterward.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Which is what you might expect if he fetched the pineapple from the fridge?

UKGuy,

Sure, I’ve heard different interpretations of this. Maybe Patsy took them out of the dishwasher and Burke helped put them up. Back to the bowl in the fridge. This looks like a cereal bowl. Pineapple is kept is plastic container with a lid otherwise it goes bad.

Which is not definitive as fingerprints are not always permanent, or JonBenet used another spoon, etc?

John stated this spoon was Patsy’s good silver. There is a reason you polish silver.

Fine, if he is being truthful. Which offers the alternative interpretation that Burke and JonBenet snacked pineapple together, either from the same bowl or separate bowls, meaning one is missing?

Yet, if Burke sipped tea from a cup or mug, which is also missing, could be he washed up his bowl and cup, before heading for bed?

You mean Patsy could make Burke wash his dishes but couldn’t tell him to pick up his wood shavings left around the house? If they were washed it was probably the advocates that were there busying themselves cleaning that morning.

I doubt Patsy or John ever looked into the breakfast bar, they both had other things on their minds.

I reckon the pineapple snack along with tea was Burke's idea. Apart from Patsy probably deciding against fluids, (e.g. pineapple has a high water content), Patsy had to realize their version of events, i.e. putting JonBenet straight to bed would be a non-starter due to Patsy serving pineaple and drinks?

Patsy stated that she could hear Burke if he was in the kitchen from her bedroom.

Sure, but not by the parents who went on to claim JonBenet was put straight to bed?

What would adding a hair-tie accomplish in the mind of any stager?

I suppose you would need to ask the stager that.

Could be Fleet White helped tidy it up?

Why would Fleet do this? Just to busy himself? This is a crime scene we are talking about. There should have been a police officer assisting during visits to Burke’s room.

I wonder what time the FBI arrived; then departed?

 

[proust20]

Whether or not Patsy bought the size 12s for Jenny pertains to where the package of them should have been stored. The panties would be put in different places if they were to be sent out or to be kept. Where they were on Christmas night were either already known by the redresser(s), or they were readily at hand. Her pantie drawer was the logical place to look. Only Patsy would have known that there were different sized sets.

It's possible JB herself put on the extra hair tie? Ties were strewn on her bedroom floor, and she could have been playing. She also was still wearing the new gold cross from PR's family. This indicates that Christmas hadn't ended yet for her. The pineapple snack does also.

The gold jewelry that JB received may have been a cause of jealousy for BR? These presents would have registered as expensive to him. Plus there was her new bike. This frustration motivated him to tear the wrapped gifts? JB would have been wearing the gold during the snack. "She was always flaunting herself." This behavior refers to more than the pageants?

 

[UKGuy]

Whether or not Patsy bought the size 12s for Jenny pertains to where the package of them should have been stored. The panties would be put in different places if they were to be sent out or to be kept. Where they were on Christmas night were either already known by the redresser(s), or they were readily at hand. Her pantie drawer was the logical place to look. Only Patsy would have known that there were different sized sets.

It's possible JB herself put on the extra hair tie? Ties were strewn on her bedroom floor, and she could have been playing. She also was still wearing the new gold cross from PR's family. This indicates that Christmas hadn't ended yet for her. The pineapple snack does also.

The gold jewelry that JB received may have been a cause of jealousy for BR? These presents would have registered as expensive to him. Plus there was her new bike. This frustration motivated him to tear the wrapped gifts? JB would have been wearing the gold during the snack. "She was always flaunting herself." This behavior refers to more than the pageants?

proust20,

Whether or not Patsy bought the size 12s for Jenny pertains to where the package of them should have been stored. The panties would be put in different places if they were to be sent out or to be kept. Where they were on Christmas night were either already known by the redresser(s), or they were readily at hand. Her pantie drawer was the logical place to look. Only Patsy would have known that there were different sized sets.

Atlanta 2000 BPD Interview, Excerpt

Q. Was it something that was selected by JonBenet?
A. I believe so.
Q. Was it your intention, when you purchased those, for those to be for her, not for some third party as a gift?
A. I bought some things that were gifts and some things for her. So I don't --

As per Patsy's Atlanta Interview, she purchased Bloomingdale's underwear specifically selected by JonBenet and Bloomingdale's size-12 underwear for her niece Jenny, i.e. the were gifts part.

So presumably Patsy stored all the gifts she intended to gift-wrap with cards, etc in the same location, e.g. basement?

Even if Patsy had stored the size-12's elsewhere, say her bedroom, anyone other than JonBenet finding them would not consider them important?

Burke's alleged account of opening numerous gifts in the basement on Christmas day afternoon suggests he knew about their existence prior to returning from the White's party?

So in theory Patsy was not the only person to know that there were different packs of Bloomingdale's underwear in the house!

The gold jewelry that JB received may have been a cause of jealousy for BR? These presents would have registered as expensive to him. Plus there was her new bike.

You have to wonder why he got his nintendo and a bike too.

Dr Phil's Interview

I remember peeking down and seeing an electric train. I was super excited, he recalled. I think she got a big doll house, we both got bikes.

and ...

We Have Your Daughter by Paula Woodward, pp. 26

The kids ran into the bedroom at 6:30 that morning, John remembered. They were thrilled. I made them stay in our room until I went downstairs and turned on the Christmas tree lights. I brought in Patsy's bicycle from the garage. Burke and JonBenet's new bikes were already in front of the tree.

Burke liked techy jewelry, e.g. Rolex chronometers, etc.

Consider his remarks to an investigator who was wearing a designer brand watch.

This behavior refers to more than the pageants?

Sure,but JonBenet was too young to understand all that, she understandably enjoyed the attention.

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

Sure, I’ve heard different interpretations of this. Maybe Patsy took them out of the dishwasher and Burke helped put them up. Back to the bowl in the fridge. This looks like a cereal bowl. Pineapple is kept is plastic container with a lid otherwise it goes bad.



John stated this spoon was Patsy’s good silver. There is a reason you polish silver.



You mean Patsy could make Burke wash his dishes but couldn’t tell him to pick up his wood shavings left around the house? If they were washed it was probably the advocates that were there busying themselves cleaning that morning.



Patsy stated that she could hear Burke if he was in the kitchen from her bedroom.



I suppose you would need to ask the stager that.



Why would Fleet do this? Just to busy himself? This is a crime scene we are talking about. There should have been a police officer assisting during visits to Burke’s room.

I wonder what time the FBI arrived; then departed?

Rain on my Parade,

Sure, I’ve heard different interpretations of this. Maybe Patsy took them out of the dishwasher and Burke helped put them up. Back to the bowl in the fridge. This looks like a cereal bowl. Pineapple is kept is plastic container with a lid otherwise it goes bad.

Yes its all open to interpretation, although Burke's fingerprints on the tea glass and the bowl is not a good look.

The large spoon hints at another interpretation, but not one that explains away Burke's fingerprints.

Yes, pineapple has a short shelf life, ceramic bowl covered with a plate is fine for a day or more.

You mean Patsy could make Burke wash his dishes but couldn’t tell him to pick up his wood shavings left around the house? If they were washed it was probably the advocates that were there busying themselves cleaning that morning.

Could have been the advocates, otherwise it looks like only one person snacked pineapple, e.g. JonBenet?

Patsy stated that she could hear Burke if he was in the kitchen from her bedroom.

She has to say that. Burke stated similar saying he could hear the fridge door opening.

Might just be Burke helped JonBenet with the pineapple prior to heading for bed?

Why would Fleet do this? Just to busy himself? This is a crime scene we are talking about. There should have been a police officer assisting during visits to Burke’s room.

Nervous energy I guess. This why I suggested Fleet White knows if Burke was involved as he tidied up Burke's bedroom, e.g. putting Burke's pajamas under his pillow?

I wonder what time the FBI arrived; then departed?

There are official records, but how accurate they are is open to debate.

.

 

[OddOneOut]

www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/dna-evidence-could-bring-jonbenét-ramsey-s-killer-to-justice-after-25-years/ar-AAWvdVT?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=004ac478b87c4042a1d3ace39a265a5d

Apparently, I'm not the only one that thinks the DNA might be important.

 

[OddOneOut]

From the above article:

"Investigators are now using DNA technology to examine evidence; 1,500 pieces of evidence, including 1,000 DNA samples, have been screened."

 

[Eddie99]

I think its important to emphasize that if BR killed his sister, accidental or otherwise; he would have faced ZERO legal consequences.

There would be ZERO benefit to "cover up" for him.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Covering up for Burke would keep his reputation in tack. Patsy was all about this.

 

[SweaterGirl]

[QUOTE="proust20, post: 17546965, member: She also was still wearing the new gold cross from PR's family.[/QUOTE]

Strangled By The Cross ???? S.B.T.C???

 

[InstantProof]

I think its important to emphasize that if BR killed his sister, accidental or otherwise; he would have faced ZERO legal consequences.

There would be ZERO benefit to "cover up" for him.

Patsy's whole life was her image, that's enough motive for a cover up right there without even getting into who may have killed her daughter.