Lies point us to the truth

[Rain on my Parade]

I think we should take a moment and consider the R’s reactions to the morning of Dec. 26, 1996.
Part One
They are taking their private plane on a trip to Michigan to meet JR older children.
PR wakes up, puts on full makeup, fixes her hair and dresses in her party cloths from the previous night. She heads to the second landing to fiddle with laundry outside JB bedroom. She then heads down the back spiral staircase to fix coffee. The n stops short of hitting the last few rungs and picks up a RN. This is the location PR would leave notes for her housekeeper (LHP). She only reads her daughter has been kidnapped. She screams for her husband who was taking a shower when she awoke. She rushes back up the spiral staircase to check on JB.
JR rushes downstairs in his underwear and reads the note on the floor of the back hallway. JR instructs PR to call the police. PR dials 911. At no time does she mention her daughters name during this call and after relaying the message she promptly hangs up the phone or so she thinks. There are 3 voices heard after this on the call before the phone call is disconnected (6 seconds). JR yelling “We are not talking to you”, a child’s voice saying “What DID you find”. And PR saying “I’ve called the police, now what”?
At no time does she state she has checked on BR or scoured the house for JB. BR states during an interview that his mom comes into his room that morning and starts flipping the lights on and off and going psycho “Where’s my baby”. She doesn’t question BR. Are you okay? Have you seen JB? Did you hear anything?
It takes the police 4 minutes to arrive @ the R’s home. JR headed up to the 3rd floor and then back down within this 4 minute time period. JR is completely dressed in a dress shirt and khakis and is seen by police standing in the kitchen @ the breakfast counter. PR answers the door.
Review: PR fails to read the entire ransom note before rushing up the stairs (I would have read the note in it’s entirety). She fails to search her home for her daughter or to check on her son by her accounts. Why does she never mention JB by her name if she has been indeed kidnapped?
How did JR get dressed so quickly after racing from the first floor to the third and Then backdown, fully dressed, composed and not out of breathe within such a short period of time? Why were his prints not on the RN? Did he read it? Nowhere does it say how the note got from the staircase rungs to the floor. JR fingerprints were not found on the RN, but PR were. Why hasn’t he searched his house and checked on his son, but instead is seen waiting composed at the breakfast bar?

 

[UKGuy]

I think we should take a moment and consider the R’s reactions to the morning of Dec. 26, 1996.
Part One
They are taking their private plane on a trip to Michigan to meet JR older children.
PR wakes up, puts on full makeup, fixes her hair and dresses in her party cloths from the previous night. She heads to the second landing to fiddle with laundry outside JB bedroom. She then heads down the back spiral staircase to fix coffee. The n stops short of hitting the last few rungs and picks up a RN. This is the location PR would leave notes for her housekeeper (LHP). She only reads her daughter has been kidnapped. She screams for her husband who was taking a shower when she awoke. She rushes back up the spiral staircase to check on JB.
JR rushes downstairs in his underwear and reads the note on the floor of the back hallway. JR instructs PR to call the police. PR dials 911. At no time does she mention her daughters name during this call and after relaying the message she promptly hangs up the phone or so she thinks. There are 3 voices heard after this on the call before the phone call is disconnected (6 seconds). JR yelling “We are not talking to you”, a child’s voice saying “What DID you find”. And PR saying “I’ve called the police, now what”?
At no time does she state she has checked on BR or scoured the house for JB. BR states during an interview that his mom comes into his room that morning and starts flipping the lights on and off and going psycho “Where’s my baby”. She doesn’t question BR. Are you okay? Have you seen JB? Did you hear anything?
It takes the police 4 minutes to arrive @ the R’s home. JR headed up to the 3rd floor and then back down within this 4 minute time period. JR is completely dressed in a dress shirt and khakis and is seen by police standing in the kitchen @ the breakfast counter. PR answers the door.
Review: PR fails to read the entire ransom note before rushing up the stairs (I would have read the note in it’s entirety). She fails to search her home for her daughter or to check on her son by her accounts. Why does she never mention JB by her name if she has been indeed kidnapped?
How did JR get dressed so quickly after racing from the first floor to the third and Then backdown, fully dressed, composed and not out of breathe within such a short period of time? Why were his prints not on the RN? Did he read it? Nowhere does it say how the note got from the staircase rungs to the floor. JR fingerprints were not found on the RN, but PR were. Why hasn’t he searched his house and checked on his son, but instead is seen waiting composed at the breakfast bar?

Rain on my Parade,

Why hasn’t he searched his house and checked on his son, but instead is seen waiting composed at the breakfast bar?

Yes, so composed he even has time for a shower!

The thing about this scenario is that stuff is missing, i.e. forensics either from the parents or the alleged intruder, the pen and paper used originated in the house.

Thinking sideways suggests the parents having never staged a kidnapping before, made many basic mistakes, such as no prints on the RN, John displaying his forensics-aware avoidance technique, i.e. kneeling in his underwear to read the RN, etc.

Some suggest they put the RN on the stairs to implicate the poor housekeeper, who knows, in private I'll bet BPD investigators were saying its all been staged, e.g.look at the wife, she has never been to bed, still wearing the previous nights clothes!

There is no need to check on BR, they already know he is awake and is fine, they admit this at a later date due to the overheard 3 voices, one of which even Burke Ramsey says "Hey it sounds like me."

Basically with no real criminal background , minimal forensic awareness the parents fabricated a kidnapping scenario that was simply not credible.

Lou Smit saved the day with his Intruder theory and basement window entry enactment, otherwise the R's would have been panned by the media.

The million dollar question is the case a sex case or was it all staged so one of the R's could avoid facing justice?

Many think it was mostly all PR, she lost it with JonBenet then staged a coverup?

Possibly the same scenario with either BR or JR, followed with the wine-cellar staging?

All three Ramsey's have forensic deposits in the wine-cellar and these should not be there, particularly Patsy's as she is on record stating the last time she was in the basement was Christmas Eve ... gift wrapping.

As Kolar points out in his book, the forensic deposits you might expect from a multitude of the Foreign Faction are decidedly missing in action.

.

 

[887sMtreme]

I think we should take a moment and consider the R’s reactions to the morning of Dec. 26, 1996.
Part One
<Respectfully snipped for focus>
JR rushes downstairs in his underwear and reads the note on the floor of the back hallway. <Respectfully snipped again for focus>

For years, I have questioned why the RN was read ON THE FLOOR. There is a perfectly good countertop in the kitchen with overhead lights. Why on earth would any adult choose instead to crouch or kneel on the floor to read something so important?

 

[UKGuy]

For years, I have questioned why the RN was read ON THE FLOOR. There is a perfectly good countertop in the kitchen with overhead lights. Why on earth would any adult choose instead to crouch or kneel on the floor to read something so important?

887sMtreme,

Ring a Ding, and the answer is JR never knelt in his underwear to read the RN. He likely proof read it for Patsy.

JR's claims regarding his reading posture are deliberately contrived to explain why his fingerprints are not on the the RN.

In any staged scenario JR was always going to read the RN, but not only has he gone out of his way to avoid depositing any forensic evidence, he wants BPD to know why.

Looks like this detail is ad hoc, a last minute addition, probably to fit the revised version of events?

The RN along with JonBenet in the wine-cellar is all staging, so their relevance is minimal.

Some think JR put JonBenet into the wine-cellar mid-morning, once he realized nobody was going to find her and they were not flying off into the sunset.

Also JR did not know that Fleet White had already visited the basement and checked the wine-cellar without noticing anything amiss, e.g. no smell of decomposing, no smell of urine, no white blanket to observe as a contrast to the dimmed interior.

With JR later discovering JonBenet and without switching on the light, i.e. similar circumstances as met by Fleet White, except that JR has extremely poor eyesight which is why he hired a pilot, medically he was barred from piloting aircraft, which all suggests JR knew well in advance that JonBenet was in the wine-cellar.

Now for JonBenet aficionados JR moving JonBenet allows for him intending to redress JonBenet in the pink barbie nightgown, or he removed it and replaced it with JonBenet's white gap top?

Patsy's initial story that JonBenet was wearing the red turtleneck, might be true, and that JR thought her barbie nightgown would match their version of events better, in being dressed for bed?

.

 

[sloane7777]

I still really think they were covering for the remaining child .

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Yes, so composed he even has time for a shower!

UKGuy,

JR had time for a shower, yet seemed rushed in dropping his semen stained robe on the floor beside his desk.

Some suggest they put the RN on the stairs to implicate the poor housekeeper, who knows, in private I'll bet BPD investigators were saying its all been staged, e.g.look at the wife, she has never been to bed, still wearing the previous nights clothes!

This makes sense to me that they made up this story for several reasons:
1) to point fingers at LHP
2) you simply cannot step over or around the note laid out on a spiral staircase rung.
As for the previous nights cloths: this makes no sense to me and neither does the makeup! She could have done that on the plane on the way to Michigan. She had kids to get ready, breakfast and coffee to serve, load up the car. Why wear party cloths on a plane ride in your personal plane? It’s not like somebody was going to see her. I agree with you she never changed her cloths or took a shower.

There is no need to check on BR, they already know he is awake and is fine, they admit this at a later date due to the overheard 3 voices, one of which even Burke Ramsey says "Hey it sounds like me."

Of course BR was awake. He admits to it as well as being heard on the 911 call.

The million dollar question is the case a sex case or was it all staged so one of the R's could avoid facing justice?

IMO, the answer is both.

All three Ramsey's have forensic deposits in the wine-cellar and these should not be there, particularly Patsy's as she is on record stating the last time she was in the basement was Christmas Eve ... gift wrapping.

Would you mind, ever so much, as giving the forensic deposits for three R’s that should not be there?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Ring a Ding, and the answer is JR never knelt in his underwear to read the RN. He likely proof read it for Patsy.

Of course, JR was never down on his hands and knees (in his underwear) reading the RN. This reminds me of the story line of how FW and JR sat on the floor with their daughters playing jewelry @ the White’s Christmas party. Seriously? And yes, they probably composed the RN together.

In any staged scenario JR was always going to read the RN, but not only has he gone out of his way to avoid depositing any forensic evidence, he wants BPD to know why.

JR had no problem handing them the notepad of PR that the RN came from.

The RN along with JonBenet in the wine-cellar is all staging, so their relevance is minimal.

I wouldn’t call this minimal relevance as it is proof of staging. The police knew from the get go something wasn’t right that morning.

Now for JonBenet aficionados JR moving JonBenet allows for him intending to redress JonBenet in the pink barbie nightgown, or he removed it and replaced it with JonBenet's white gap top?

I don’t know if JR redressed JB. What I do know is that PR and BR touch dna were found on the top & bottom, as well inside and outside; of the Barbie nightgown.
Also, there is more to the story about the red turtleneck sweater. It was a cry me a river trigger for PR. The same mom who couldn’t say her daughters name on the 911 call to report her kidnapping.

UKGuy,
Thank you for your input. I appreciate it!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

For years, I have questioned why the RN was read ON THE FLOOR. There is a perfectly good countertop in the kitchen with overhead lights. Why on earth would any adult choose instead to crouch or kneel on the floor to read something so important?

Exactly!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I still really think they were covering for the remaining child .

sloane7777,
What would the real reason be as to why a parent would
Not, have their other child in their immediate vicinity Upon discovering their daughter had just been kidnapped? As the story goes .. from the beginning .. BR knows nothing, heard nothing, is sound asleep. That’s until they R’s were caught in a lie.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

JR had time for a shower, yet seemed rushed in dropping his semen stained robe on the floor beside his desk.




This makes sense to me that they made up this story for several reasons:
1) to point fingers at LHP
2) you simply cannot step over or around the note laid out on a spiral staircase rung.
As for the previous nights cloths: this makes no sense to me and neither does the makeup! She could have done that on the plane on the way to Michigan. She had kids to get ready, breakfast and coffee to serve, load up the car. Why wear party cloths on a plane ride in your personal plane? It’s not like somebody was going to see her. I agree with you she never changed her cloths or took a shower.



Of course BR was awake. He admits to it as well as being heard on the 911 call.


IMO, the answer is both.




Would you mind, ever so much, as giving the forensic deposits for three R’s that should not be there?

Rain on my Parade,

IMO, the answer is both.

Really so its a homicide motivated by a sexual assault followed up with staging?

Or ...

Is it a violent physical assault on JonBenet, e.g. Head Trauma, along with contusions and abrasions all over her body indicating an extended assault, leading to coma, followed by staged asphyxiation to mask the consequences of the Head Trauma, not realizing or caring the autopsy would reveal this, in tandem with a fake sexual assault intended to confuse investigators?

From memory Coroner Meyer initially suggested a sexual assault had taken place, with emphasis on the lab results that indicated JonBenet had been stimulated.


Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Excerpt

He would observe the same injuries that Dr. Meyer had noted during the autopsy protocol and concurred that a foreign object had been inserted into the opening of JonBenét’s vaginal orifice and was responsible for the acute injury witnessed at the 7:00 o’clock position.

JonBenet Autopsy Report, Excerpt

Vaginal Mucosa:
A small number of red blod cells is present on the eroded surface, as is birefringement foreign matarial

...

1996-12-29: Search Warrant 755 15 Street, Boulder, Colorado, Excerpt

Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 27, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury constant with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that it was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact. For further details on the autopsy see the attached document entitled Addendum To

In a second autopsy another Medical Examiner confirmed Coroner Meyer's initial diagnosis.
Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Excerpt

Following the meeting, Dr. Meyer returned to the morgue with Dr. Andy Sirontak, Chief of Denver Children’s Hospital Child Protection Team, so that a second opinion could be rendered on the injuries observed to the vaginal area of JonBenét. He would observe the same injuries that Dr. Meyer had noted during the autopsy protocol and concurred that a foreign object had been inserted into the opening of JonBenét’s vaginal orifice and was responsible for the acute injury witnessed at the 7:00 o’clock position.

Further inspection revealed that the hymen was shriveled and retracted, a sign that JonBenét had been subjected to some type of sexual contact prior to the date of her death.

Dr. Sirontak could not provide an opinion as to how old those injuries were or how many times JonBenét may have been assaulted and would defer to the expert opinions of other medical examiners.

Here is Patsy's take on this subject:
BPD 1998 -Interview with Patsy, excerpt

25 TOM HANEY: Okay. Ms. Ramsey, are

0581

1 you aware that there had been prior vaginal

2 intrusion on JonBenet?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I am not.

4 Prior to the night she was killed?

5 TOM HANEY: Correct.

6 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I am not.

7 TOM HANEY: Didn't know that?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I didn't.

9 TOM HANEY: Does that surprise you?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: Extremely.

11 TOM HANEY: Does that shock you?

12 PATSY RAMSEY: It shocks me.

13 TOM HANEY: Does it bother you?

14 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, it does.

15 TOM HANEY: Who, how could she have

16 been violated like that?

17 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. This

18 is the absolute first time I ever heard that.

19 TOM HANEY: Take a minute, if you

20 would, I mean this seems -- you know, you didn't

21 know that before right now, the 25th, at 2:32?

22 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I absolutely

23 did not.

They patently think she does, hence the possibility that Patsy employed the paintbrush to mask whatever went before.

Skeptics must bear in mind that prior vaginal intrusion also covers the short time frame leading up to JonBenet's death, not simply days before!

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

Would you mind, ever so much, as giving the forensic deposits for three R’s that should not be there?

Rain on my Parade,

1. Patsy's fibers embedded into the ligature knotting.
2. Patsy's fibers on the sticky underside of the tape covering JonBenet's mouth.

3. Fibers belonging to John's Israeli manufactured shirt are found on JonBenet's genital area.

4. Burke Ramsey's touch dna is deposited on the Pink Barbie Nightgown.

5. JonBenet's blood is deposited on the Pink Barbie Nightgown, suggesting it was present when JonBenet was undressed or/and sexually assaulted?

Consider the probability of 4. & 5. along with the nightgown arriving in the wine-cellar and not say left lying on some floor somewhere, i.e. that is 3 probable factors which when multiplied yield a very very low likely hood?

These forensic deposits should not be there because its alleged an intruder killed JonBenet and dumped her in the wine-cellar, sealing it off from contact with BR,PR,or JR!

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,

Really so its a homicide motivated by a sexual assault followed up with staging?

Or ...

Is it a violent physical assault on JonBenet, e.g. Head Trauma, along with contusions and abrasions all over her body indicating an extended assault, leading to coma, followed by staged asphyxiation to mask the consequences of the Head Trauma, not realizing or caring the autopsy would reveal this, in tandem with a fake sexual assault intended to confuse investigators?

From memory Coroner Meyer initially suggested a sexual assault had taken place, with emphasis on the lab results that indicated JonBenet had been stimulated.


Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Excerpt


JonBenet Autopsy Report, Excerpt


1996-12-29: Search Warrant 755 15 Street, Boulder, Colorado, Excerpt


In a second autopsy another Medical Examiner confirmed Coroner Meyer's initial diagnosis.
Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Excerpt



Here is Patsy's take on this subject:
BPD 1998 -Interview with Patsy, excerpt


They patently think she does, hence the possibility that Patsy employed the paintbrush to mask whatever went before.

Skeptics must bear in mind that prior vaginal intrusion also covers the short time frame leading up to JonBenet's death, not simply days before!

.

The million dollar question is the case a sex case or was it all staged so one of the R's could avoid facing justice?

I say both because as you have pointed out JB was sexual abused before Christmas night. And IMO, the R’s are guilty of staging to avoid facing justice. The indictment proved that.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,

1. Patsy's fibers embedded into the ligature knotting.
2. Patsy's fibers on the sticky underside of the tape covering JonBenet's mouth.

3. Fibers belonging to John's Israeli manufactured shirt are found on JonBenet's genital area.

4. Burke Ramsey's touch dna is deposited on the Pink Barbie Nightgown.

5. JonBenet's blood is deposited on the Pink Barbie Nightgown, suggesting it was present when JonBenet was undressed or/and sexually assaulted?

Consider the probability of 4. & 5. along with the nightgown arriving in the wine-cellar and not say left lying on some floor somewhere, i.e. that is 3 probable factors which when multiplied yield a very very low likely hood?

These forensic deposits should not be there because its alleged an intruder killed JonBenet and dumped her in the wine-cellar, sealing it off from contact with BR,PR,or JR!

.

Rain on my Parade,

1. Patsy's fibers embedded into the ligature knotting.
2. Patsy's fibers on the sticky underside of the tape covering JonBenet's mouth.

3. Fibers belonging to John's Israeli manufactured shirt are found on JonBenet's genital area.

4. Burke Ramsey's touch dna is deposited on the Pink Barbie Nightgown.

5. JonBenet's blood is deposited on the Pink Barbie Nightgown, suggesting it was present when JonBenet was undressed or/and sexually assaulted?

Consider the probability of 4. & 5. along with the nightgown arriving in the wine-cellar and not say left lying on some floor somewhere, i.e. that is 3 probable factors which when multiplied yield a very very low likely hood?

These forensic deposits should not be there because its alleged an intruder killed JonBenet and dumped her in the wine-cellar, sealing it off from contact with BR,PR,or JR!

.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing anything here.

 

[887sMtreme]

Exactly!

I should have added, and why on earth did BPD buy those odd details? I don’t remember nearly enough questioning by them on that score, though I may be wrong.

Corollary to that, why would JR be concerned about leaving fingerprints on the RN? It would be perfectly reasonable for PR’s and JR’s fingerprints to be all over something they had been reading so avidly. The time to be careful about that was while it was being written. The distribution and density of prints on paper one is writing upon would be different than those left later when reading. I believe PR wrote the note. Did she she wear ladylike white gloves Whilst doing so? Did BPE search for any, perhaps in the washing machine or trash? *sigh*

 

[sloane7777]

BPD would not be too concerned with a killer running around , if that killer was a small child, likely that there was no real danger to anyone else its not like he was going to borrow the car keys and pay a homicidal visit to his friends....and it really does SEEM like no one has ever looked that hard .

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I should have added, and why on earth did BPD buy those odd details? I don’t remember nearly enough questioning by them on that score, though I may be wrong.

Corollary to that, why would JR be concerned about leaving fingerprints on the RN? It would be perfectly reasonable for PR’s and JR’s fingerprints to be all over something they had been reading so avidly. The time to be careful about that was while it was being written. The distribution and density of prints on paper one is writing upon would be different than those left later when reading. I believe PR wrote the note. Did she she wear ladylike white gloves Whilst doing so? Did BPE search for any, perhaps in the washing machine or trash? *sigh*

I have always pictured that gloves wear worn. How else can we conclude that there were no fingerprints on the flashlight, etc. It is my understanding that part of PR hand print was found on the RN. I don’t think that BPD failed so much as the problem here. I see it more as lawyered up to make this all go away before the police were ever called into action. I am sure several phone calls were made that night. How else do we explain the fact that the R’s never turned over their phone records for the month of December?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

BPD would not be too concerned with a killer running around , if that killer was a small child, likely that there was no real danger to anyone else its not like he was going to borrow the car keys and pay a homicidal visit to his friends....and it really does SEEM like no one has ever looked that hard .

The police weren’t the only ones not concerned with a killer running around. BR was never scared even though his sister had been viciously murdered in their home.

 

[sloane7777]

The police weren’t the only ones not concerned with a killer running around. BR was never scared even though his sister had been viciously murdered in their home.

Your average kid would be terrified to the point of nightmares , not walking around without a care in the world like said child has just lost 40 lbs of baggage

 

[sloane7777]

DBL post

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Your average kid would be terrified to the point of nightmares , not walking around without a care in the world like said child has just lost 40 lbs of baggage

Bingo ... skipping amongst the headstones