Lies point us to the truth

[UKGuy]

fr brown,
double post
.

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>A phallic-shaped flashlight is verging on the Freudian, until I learn otherwise I'll assume its initial use was utilitarian.

.

Linda Hoffman Pugh mentioned something about Patsy not wanting to perform fellatio on John.

 

[UKGuy]

Linda Hoffman Pugh mentioned something about Patsy not wanting to perform fellatio on John.

icedtea4me,
Flashlight, fellatio, I'm lost. No they both start with F?

Sure I read that Patsy and John were not as close as advertised. Will this have impacted on the children, I reckon so.

Patsy's story tells us that you can have it all, yet it can all go horribly wrong.

I reckon Patsy had plans and a vision for her family it just never worked out.


.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Some thoughts on the maglite

• Maglite flashlights do not come with batteries. The one we see on the counter requires 4 D batteries. This makes the flashlight very heavy.
• Since no fingerprints were found on the flashlight or batteries; obviously there were no fingerprints found on the on/off button as well. It is rubber. Would it hold a fingerprint?
• Do we think perhaps that BR could have gotten the flashlight Christmas morning to check on the presents before he woke up his parents? I don't know about the front stairwell light source. We do know that he waited to awake his parents (after waking) and that he had set an alarm the night before.
  
• We also know that BR bedroom overhead light was in working order but JB was not. since JR states “He put BR to bed Christmas night using the flashlight”; I have to ask why? What was the need, other then to explain it’s presence? Perhaps, it was in BR possession and it was known (by family members) as the instrument used to strike JB over the head.

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>A phallic-shaped flashlight is verging on the Freudian, until I learn otherwise I'll assume its initial use was utilitarian.

.

Linda Hoffman Pugh mentioned something about Patsy not wanting to perform fellatio on John.

icedtea4me,
Flashlight, fellatio, I'm lost. No they both start with F?<snip>

The circumference of the Maglite is basically equal to that of an erect adult male penis.

 

[UKGuy]

Linda Hoffman Pugh mentioned something about Patsy not wanting to perform fellatio on John.


The circumference of the Maglite is basically equal to that of an erect adult male penis.

icedtea4me,
Well observed. I doubt Patsy cultivated a relationship with a maglite.

.

 

[UKGuy]

Some thoughts on the maglite

• Maglite flashlights do not come with batteries. The one we see on the counter requires 4 D batteries. This makes the flashlight very heavy.
• Since no fingerprints were found on the flashlight or batteries; obviously there were no fingerprints found on the on/off button as well. It is rubber. Would it hold a fingerprint?
• Do we think perhaps that BR could have gotten the flashlight Christmas morning to check on the presents before he woke up his parents? I don't know about the front stairwell light source. We do know that he waited to awake his parents (after waking) and that he had set an alarm the night before.
  
• We also know that BR bedroom overhead light was in working order but JB was not. since JR states “He put BR to bed Christmas night using the flashlight”; I have to ask why? What was the need, other then to explain it’s presence? Perhaps, it was in BR possession and it was known (by family members) as the instrument used to strike JB over the head.

Rain on my Parade,
Lifting prints from rubber back in 1996 was a difficult thing to do, so could be nothing was recovered?

The new thing about the flashlight is John is linking it with Burke. The flashlight's presence is self-evident, how it arrived in the kitchen is not?

My money is on Burke requiring the flashlight to navigate JonBenet's bedroom in the dark?

It's just speculation that it was used to whack JonBenet on the head, there is no evidence to support this.

Although the flashlight seems to be a prime candidate as the assault weapon?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Lifting prints from rubber back in 1996 was a difficult thing to do, so could be nothing was recovered?

The new thing about the flashlight is John is linking it with Burke. The flashlight's presence is self-evident, how it arrived in the kitchen is not?

My money is on Burke requiring the flashlight to navigate JonBenet's bedroom in the dark?

It's just speculation that it was used to whack JonBenet on the head, there is no evidence to support this.

Although the flashlight seems to be a prime candidate as the assault weapon?

UKGuy,
Perhaps BR did need to use the flashlight to navigate JB bedroom, but he could have had it in his room for use Christmas morning. Also, the laundry room was just outside JB bedroom and the light there would have lit JB bedroom up to a degree. The front stairwell, probably would have shown lit up in his parents bedroom as well. It was just outside his bedroom and led almost directly to where their bed was (one floor up).

I realize that the torch has not been proven as the head bash instrument. Nothing has been proven as the instrument. There was also JR (golf clubs) which he requested retrieved by PP and BR golf clubs. Also there was the softball bat that belonged to PR located on the right side of the house. BR stated that JB was hit with a hammer. And that a knife was used. He knew an awful lot for a brother that supposedly never spoke to his parents about his sisters murder. A hammer was taken into evidence December 27, 1996.

I can not say who committed the fit of rage against JB ending her life, but I am convinced it was a R’s. No intruder evidence exists.

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Well observed. I doubt Patsy cultivated a relationship with a maglite.

.

John was the one with the Maglite on the same floor as JonBenet was.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

John was the one with the Maglite on the same floor as JonBenet was.

So he said.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Perhaps BR did need to use the flashlight to navigate JB bedroom, but he could have had it in his room for use Christmas morning. Also, the laundry room was just outside JB bedroom and the light there would have lit JB bedroom up to a degree. The front stairwell, probably would have shown lit up in his parents bedroom as well. It was just outside his bedroom and led almost directly to where their bed was (one floor up).

I realize that the torch has not been proven as the head bash instrument. Nothing has been proven as the instrument. There was also JR (golf clubs) which he requested retrieved by PP and BR golf clubs. Also there was the softball bat that belonged to PR located on the right side of the house. BR stated that JB was hit with a hammer. And that a knife was used. He knew an awful lot for a brother that supposedly never spoke to his parents about his sisters murder. A hammer was taken into evidence December 27, 1996.

I can not say who committed the fit of rage against JB ending her life, but I am convinced it was a R’s. No intruder evidence exists.

Rain on my Parade,
Sure, I agree a Ramsey did it, just which one is difficult to pin down.

Although the flashlight might be what delivered the blunt force trauma to JonBenet's head, it might not be what actually killed her.

Its possible that the flashlight was used as a first, failed attempt at staging, since the cause of death was not self evident, leaving JonBenet with a severely cracked skull?

The second attempt, i.e. ligature plus a piece of paintbrush, appeared more realistic, according to the Coroner it is this that finished JonBenet off, due to hypoxia, or an already low level of oxygen in her blood.

A speculative scenario is that someone sexually assaulted JonBenet and followed this up with a manual asphyxiation that left JonBenet in a coma.

The same person likely engaged in minimal staging before alerting the other residents.

From this point on the other residents take over and the rest is all staging right down to the ransom note?

The thing about the flashlight is that is it is out of place, i.e. left in the kitchen, it should have been left lying next to JonBenet as evidence that the intruder used it?

None of the Ramsey's needed to use a flashlight in any premeditated assault on JonBenet, it was simply not required.

My money is on the flashlight being used simply as a navigation tool.

Perhaps BR did need to use the flashlight to navigate JB bedroom, but he could have had it in his room for use Christmas morning.

I agree, and he likely used it Christmas Eve. Remember according to Patsy JonBenet and Burke shared a bedroom on Christmas Eve.

So Christmas Day night for Burke was going to be a continuation of Christmas Eve, except I reckon JonBenet was not having it, and possibly threatened to notify Patsy?

.

 

[fr brown]

So he said.

What? When did he say that?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Sure, I agree a Ramsey did it, just which one is difficult to pin down.

Although the flashlight might be what delivered the blunt force trauma to JonBenet's head, it might not be what actually killed her.

Its possible that the flashlight was used as a first, failed attempt at staging, since the cause of death was not self evident, leaving JonBenet with a severely cracked skull?

The second attempt, i.e. ligature plus a piece of paintbrush, appeared more realistic, according to the Coroner it is this that finished JonBenet off, due to hypoxia, or an already low level of oxygen in her blood.

A speculative scenario is that someone sexually assaulted JonBenet and followed this up with a manual asphyxiation that left JonBenet in a coma.

The same person likely engaged in minimal staging before alerting the other residents.

From this point on the other residents take over and the rest is all staging right down to the ransom note?

The thing about the flashlight is that is it is out of place, i.e. left in the kitchen, it should have been left lying next to JonBenet as evidence that the intruder used it?

None of the Ramsey's needed to use a flashlight in any premeditated assault on JonBenet, it was simply not required.

My money is on the flashlight being used simply as a navigation tool.


I agree, and he likely used it Christmas Eve. Remember according to Patsy JonBenet and Burke shared a bedroom on Christmas Eve.

So Christmas Day night for Burke was going to be a continuation of Christmas Eve, except I reckon JonBenet was not having it, and possibly threatened to notify Patsy?

.

UKGuy,
Thank you for this post. I believe that PR was already made aware of BR and JB actions behind closed doors. I know early on in the investigation I had read that they were separated because of this.
I don’t understand why PR decided to move JB to the other end of the house; when they remodeled. Keep your babies close. Perhaps BR was sharing JB with his friends and JB didn’t like that and threatened to tell. Something happened on the 23rd for the bulldog to answer the door.
At the moment, I am reevaluating all the R’s as the pert.

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>
I don’t understand why PR decided to move JB to the other end of the house; when they remodeled. Keep your babies close.

Let's see...

1. Patsy moved into the bedroom, which had originally been assigned to John Andrew, during her bout with cancer since its bathroom was closer.
2. JonBenet was moved to the bedroom, which had been originally assigned to the now deceased Beth, so she could be closer to her mom.

<snip>Something happened on the 23rd for the bulldog to answer the door.<snip>

John or Patsy: "Could someone get that please?"
Susan, being the closest: "I'll get it."

 

[Rain on my Parade]

What? When did he say that?

DR PHIL: I think your dad had said he used the flashlight that night to put you to bed, and then you snuck downstairs to play?

BURKE: Yeah, I had some toy that I wanted to put together. I remember being downstairs after everyone was kinda in bed, and wanting to get this thing out.

DR PHIL: Did you use the flashlight, so you wouldn't be seen?

BURKE: I don't remember. I just remember being downstairs, I remember this toy.

SOURCE: Dr Phil Episode 9/13 - Burke Ramsey Interview (Part 2) - approx 35:00 mark

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Let's see...

1. Patsy moved into the bedroom, which had originally been assigned to John Andrew, during her bout with cancer since its bathroom was closer.
2. JonBenet was moved to the bedroom, which had been originally assigned to the now deceased Beth, so she could be closer to her mom.

LINDA WILCOX: Well, actually it was Melinda's bedroom. See, her bedroom, when I first got there, this was before the redecorating and JonBenet's room was next to Burkes. And they shared a bathroom. However, because she was um, and then the bedroom that became her bedroom, had belonged to Melinda, it was set up for Melinda and Beth. It had twin beds and it was called the "pink" room because it was mostly done in pink. JonBenet wouldn't sleep in her room because the pink room had a VCR - well a TV/VCR. Well, her dad especially, but sometimes Patsy, she didn't sleep well, would put her to bed with a bottle and a video so she was always sleeping in the other room. So, they named that her room. The small room next to Burke's became Melinda's room. But, of course, Melinda only visited, primarily, I mean, she was in nursing school so she wasn't there much. And from what I got from Suzanne later, became the pageant room. So that was originally her room but she wouldn't sleep in her room because it didn't have a t.v. in it.

My point here was ... why didn’t they just add plugs for the VCR in JB original bedroom?

John or Patsy: "Could someone get that please?"
Susan, being the closest: "I'll get it."

Then why did she tell them there wasn’t a problem and then shut the door? How did the bulldog know about the 911 call?

 

[ReturnofSaturn]

IF Burke was sexually abusing/inappropriate with JBR. What would the motive for that be? Surely not sexual at his age?

 

[Darcy_Walker]

Hey, I am new to this site so I thought I'd post a little something about my thoughts on the case. ( I apologize if these points have already been spoken on, feel free to ignore this if they have)

Something I recently learned about was that a few months before JB was murdered her brother had hit her in the head with a golf club because he was mad at her. I've always thought that the brother had done it and the parents had covered it up. This sounds like a child with anger issues, and I believe that he could have killed her in a rage.
When talking about the incident, Patsy also changes her story to make Burke sound younger. (She says the incident happened in 1993 when it happened in 1994. She also says that he is 2 and a half at the time, which was also incorrect). She also downplays the injury that JB received. It definitely feels like Patsy is trying to cover for Burke's anger issues.

I have a little theory that Burke was angry at Jonbenet, possibly because she took his pineapple or was eating it. I think that because Patsy, Burke and Jonbenet's fingerprints were found on the bowl it is possible that Patsy had gotten Burke a snack, and went to another room. Jonbenet came in and took the pineapple, which angered Burke.

Burke lashed out and killed her. The mother wrote the ransom note, while the father tried to make it look like a kidnapping. I believe Patsy was in the same clothing as the night before because she hadn't slept that night. She was up writing her 3-page ransom note.

As for the unknown DNA found in the underwear, and this is a THEORY, but it is possible for unknown DNA to be found in brand new underwear (or any clothing). This has been tested before and sometimes DNA is found in clean, unused clothing because it is not sterile.

 

[fr brown]

DR PHIL: I think your dad had said he used the flashlight that night to put you to bed, and then you snuck downstairs to play?

BURKE: Yeah, I had some toy that I wanted to put together. I remember being downstairs after everyone was kinda in bed, and wanting to get this thing out.

DR PHIL: Did you use the flashlight, so you wouldn't be seen?

BURKE: I don't remember. I just remember being downstairs, I remember this toy.

SOURCE: Dr Phil Episode 9/13 - Burke Ramsey Interview (Part 2) - approx 35:00 mark

That's Dr. Phil saying that. He's not a primary source. He's not even a secondary source. Probably some imaginary number.

 

[icedtea4me]

LINDA WILCOX: Well, actually it was Melinda's bedroom. See, her bedroom, when I first got there, this was before the redecorating and JonBenet's room was next to Burkes. And they shared a bathroom. However, because she was um, and then the bedroom that became her bedroom, had belonged to Melinda, it was set up for Melinda and Beth. It had twin beds and it was called the "pink" room because it was mostly done in pink. JonBenet wouldn't sleep in her room because the pink room had a VCR - well a TV/VCR. Well, her dad especially, but sometimes Patsy, she didn't sleep well, would put her to bed with a bottle and a video so she was always sleeping in the other room. So, they named that her room. The small room next to Burke's became Melinda's room. But, of course, Melinda only visited, primarily, I mean, she was in nursing school so she wasn't there much. And from what I got from Suzanne later, became the pageant room. So that was originally her room but she wouldn't sleep in her room because it didn't have a t.v. in it.

Thomas stated in his book how JonBenet came to get her room via a double tragedy (i.e. Beth's death and Patsy's cancer diagnosis).

Then why did she tell them there wasn’t a problem and then shut the door? How did the bulldog know about the 911 call?

Maybe because Fleet White stated something about his misdial.