Live MSM coverage on Baby Lisa 20 October 2011

[Murphismo]

I remember reading some article awhile back that stated that most SIDS deaths were actually caused by sleep apnea... the baby just stops breathing for some reason, not necessarily smothered. Now they have monitors that alert the parents if the baby stops breathing. Lot of adults have sleep apnea, too.
I used to prop my babies on their sides or sometimes put them down on their tummies... but I checked them every few minutes. And as infants, they slept in a crib beside my bed, not in another room. I was old-fashioned that way. Been a long time since I had babies in the house.

I was nuts until my babies hit 9 months. I swear I didn't sleep for the entire 9 months. I watched every breath they took and they slept right next to me with my hand in the basinett. I was terrifed of SIDS...

 

[goldringstx]

IMO, It would take MUCH MORE than the recommended dosage of any children's medication to KILL a child, not something that you could accidentally do, even while drunk... Unless she accidentally gave adult meds.

 

[Murphismo]

I was more thinking of the neighbor being a witness to events and her memory and how clear or clouded it is due to her drinking.

I can tell you the sequence of events last night, but cannot give you times other than to say my kids got to bed late last night due to having to go shopping for new coats because 2 of the kids broke their zippers yesterday (why oh why do they have to try to force the zippers LOL)

same reason mine flush tennis balls down the john.... Because they can...

 

[AnaTeresa]

I understand why BS called the things he did "accidents". Maybe they're not, technically, but in a way...they are. One moment can change your entire life in a flash.

I imagine if you're shaking a baby it's an instaneous thing, not something you pondered before you did it. Yes, the intent is there, and even the "forethought" legally. But take away the legalities and it's just seeing red, reacting blindly, and ruining yours (and others') lives forever.

I can see overdosing a baby to be an accident as well. Since most medicines (even childrens) does not have a dosage amt. for babies, many parents do their best to figure out what would be correct. I'm assuming some parents get it wrong, especially if they've been drinking.

If either of those things did happen, (or something similar) DB or JI should come forward as soon as possible and let LE know. They're not doing themselves any favors by not talking.

Overdosing can be accidental, since it's so hard to calculate dosage amounts. But shaking? Most of the time, it's not innocently pushing your child in a bouncy toy or dropping them. Even if it's something you never thought of before and it's powered by extreme depression or frustration, it's not accidental. Even if it's instantaneous, picking up your baby and shaking them isn't an accident. There can be other actions that are accidental which look like shaking injuries to doctors. But I'm just not comfortable calling shaking a baby an accident, at least on its face.

 

[peeples]

same reason mine flush tennis balls down the john.... Because they can...

That made me LOL, thanks
Those super bounce balls don't work their way through the plumbing any easier than tennis balls do either

 

[AnaTeresa]

IMO, It would take MUCH MORE than the recommended dosage of any children's medication to KILL a child, not something that you could accidentally do, even while drunk... Unless she accidentally gave adult meds.

Not necessarily. I remember hearing in the news about tylenol, and how close to the line the actual dose was to overdosing. Some medications don't have a wide buffer zone between the dose and an overdose.

http://www.ismp.org/newsletters/acutecare/articles/20020807.asp

 

[Murphismo]

Overdosing can be accidental, since it's so hard to calculate dosage amounts. But shaking? Most of the time, it's not innocently pushing your child in a bouncy toy or dropping them. Even if it's something you never thought of before and it's powered by extreme depression or frustration, it's not accidental. Even if it's instantaneous, picking up your baby and shaking them isn't an accident. There can be other actions that are accidental which look like shaking injuries to doctors. But I'm just not comfortable calling shaking a baby an accident, at least on its face.

At Lisa's age, you'd REALLY have to shake her to hell with leather. My little ones had those bouncy swings that hung from the doorway and I swear they would jump five feet in the air, I asked the doctor if they could give themselves shaken baby syndrome and they said NO, it takes a lot more than that, and "that" was a lot......

 

[Dr.Fessel]

i watched a show this past weekend on memory and it was one of the most interesting things i"ve ever seen they staged a purse snatching and brought in like 8 witnesses and compared their stories.. THEN they brought in 2 "plants". People who changed small details like said they saw the woman wearing a red coat vs a grey one, saw the man drop a cell phone vs a camera etc etc... and all of a sudden the REAL witnesses started saying "Ohh yeah it WAS a red coat" even though they plainly and rightfully stated it was grey at the beginning..
It was really cool.. and kinda scary considering how often eye witness testimony has been used to convict people...

I saw that show too and it was great!

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I don't see us getting a whole lot of coverage today on Baby Lisa. Probably late this afternoon on HLN. This Qaddafi thing is going to monopolize all news channels.

Plus, I also think today will be quiet on all fronts. The CSI lab techs are already working overtime and especially so today with all the new information they collected yesterday.

I'm especially listening (and watching) for LE to go in a different direction - meaning the analysis of that computer's hard drive! If they copied it first thing yesterday when they first went in - well, they are already getting info (and have been all night). That info will send LE to places and people that we might not even see.

We need to watch the movement of the parents today - LE will most definitely contact their counsell having questions about what is being found on that hard drive!


ETA: And if these parents are so willing to talk to LE in an effort to help find Lisa - well then, JT should high tail it back to KC and facilitate a meeting between them and LE to answer those "computer" questions. Wouldn't ya think? After all, they have NOTHING to hide - according to JT - right?

 

[Insomnia Momma]

It seems to me that if I put one of my babies down at 6:40 pm that I would have had to check on them by 10:30 if not sooner, usually it happened that by 4 hours later they needed a new diaper at least or they were hungry/thirsty by then. In order to assure myself a good nights sleep I would have made sure they were comfortable before I hit the sack myself :dunno: That whole part of the story is hinky to me in many ways.

 

[Murphismo]

That made me LOL, thanks
Those super bounce balls don't work their way through the plumbing any easier than tennis balls do either

this actually came up yesterday when we were talking about flushing the cell phones down the toilet. In our case, the ball lodged inside the actual toilet, we had to get a 12 pack and a group of friends to remove the entire toilet from the bathroom and get a coathanger to remove it. At any rate, I could see a "small" phone being entirely "flushable", not a blackberry.... Those don't flush either....:furious:

 

[TxLady2]

i watched a show this past weekend on memory and it was one of the most interesting things i"ve ever seen they staged a purse snatching and brought in like 8 witnesses and compared their stories.. THEN they brought in 2 "plants". People who changed small details like said they saw the woman wearing a red coat vs a grey one, saw the man drop a cell phone vs a camera etc etc... and all of a sudden the REAL witnesses started saying "Ohh yeah it WAS a red coat" even though they plainly and rightfully stated it was grey at the beginning..
It was really cool.. and kinda scary considering how often eye witness testimony has been used to convict people...

Yes, we used to do that in inservices on several jobs I had. Usually, there were no two descriptions that matched exactly, although one or two were pretty accurate sometimes but not perfect.
I would say it is not that unusual for a parent not to recall every detail in the first interview by LE in a case like this, since they are usually pretty distraught when a child goes missing. That is why I frown on family being encouraged to take a LDT immediately. LE should wait until things calm down a little and the initial shock wears off even if only until the next day.
I was required to take a LDT one time after being hired to work in a grocery store, many years ago. Scared the carp out of me! I was so nervous and scared it's a wonder I didn't fail it, but I guess not because they didn't fire me. :innocent:
LE will tell you, if they're honest, that eyewitness testimony is the least reliable evidence there is because the memory IS so tricky.

 

[goldringstx]

Not necessarily. I remember hearing in the news about tylenol, and how close to the line the actual dose was to overdosing. Some medications don't have a wide buffer zone between the dose and an overdose.

http://www.ismp.org/newsletters/acutecare/articles/20020807.asp

Yes but a medicine like tylenol doesn't just make you go to sleep and die - a tylenol overdose attacks your liver (i believe) and is a very slow and painful death.

 

[Dave AHFB]

same reason mine flush tennis balls down the john.... Because they can...

Trying to picture this and just cannot fathom that would ever work.

 

[nursebeeme]

Young said all previous searches of the house have been conducted with the family's consent. Wednesday's warrant prevents anyone except those involved in the investigation from entering, meaning family members - who have returned home from time to time to collect clothes and other belongings - may not go back inside until the search is over. It wasn't immediately clear whether the search would resume Thursday.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20123067-504083.html

has anyone heard if the home is still held on warrant?

 

[Quiche]

I'm wondering if the night time rituals belonged to JI prior to his new work assignment... maybe she got to "relax" while he bathed and put the children to bed. I think it's possible her "adult time" was worked into the daily schedule. It's a thought. mo

 

[Wise Old Owl]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20123067-504083.html

has anyone heard if the home is still held on warrant?

Nursie, we'll know its been released when the crime scene tape comes down. As long as that tape is up - its still being held. Whether or not they come back there today depends on what the preliminary tests at the lab tell them. Its good that with the warrant they can hold that house almost indefinitely.

 

[Insomnia Momma]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20123067-504083.html

has anyone heard if the home is still held on warrant?

I haven't heard that it's still being held on any MSM sites but I haven't heard that it has been released yet either? I wonder if they still have an officer outside directing people away from the house?

 

[TxLady2]

Not necessarily. I remember hearing in the news about tylenol, and how close to the line the actual dose was to overdosing. Some medications don't have a wide buffer zone between the dose and an overdose.

http://www.ismp.org/newsletters/acutecare/articles/20020807.asp

True, and some parents might not be very careful when measuring a dose, either. However, just a little over the recommended dose for a child is probably not going to kill the child, unless it was adult meds. I would never give adult meds to a baby without talking to their doctor first and most pediatricians do not approve it anyway, in my experience.

 

[In da Middle]

The notion that they were sitting outside on the front stoop bugs me. Why would they be sitting out there drinking? It was pretty chilly that night, wasn't it? There are no chairs out there. Even if you're a smoker who restricts themselves to outside, they have a deck with furniture out back, don't they?

Not saying the front stoop scenario didn't happen...I just wonder why it happened. If it even did.

They sat out front almost every day. Nothing unusual at all about that part. It always happened.