Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

[steveP120]

Where are our 1970s station wagon experts?

The "station wagon" in the picture #10 does not even look like a station wagon to me since it only has one driver side door?
If there were a door for rear passengers, it would have to open at the window break and be above the rear tire?

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/bed...s-conference-about-lyon-sisters-case/28368986

While the 1970 Ford Country Squire Station Wagon looks like one of these
https://www.google.com/search?q=197...v&sa=X&ei=9e4yVLasH4OZyQTkx4D4Dg&ved=0CB0QsAQ

 

[steveP120]

The "station wagon" looks like a Pinto country wagon to me.
I think someone else in a different thread mentioned a Pinto also.
http://barnfinds.com/best-of-the-worst-1977-ford-pinto-country-squire/

If my memory is correct about Pintos, two adults barely fit in, and two kids will fill the backseat, a far cry from a full-size station wagon, which were the minivans of the 60's and 70's.

 

[Historydetective63]

I think that you are correct. I believe the car in the photo with Richard Welch is a Ford Pinto Squire Wagon which first debuted at a Chicago car show in February 1972. It had only two doors and could be purchased with the faux wood panels on the sides.

The "station wagon" looks like a Pinto country wagohttp://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/car-show-classics-1973-and-1974-ford-pinto-squires-still-at-least-two-left/n to me.
I think someone else in a different thread mentioned a Pinto also.
http://barnfinds.com/best-of-the-worst-1977-ford-pinto-country-squire/

If my memory is correct about Pintos, two adults barely fit in, and two kids will fill the backseat, a far cry from a full-size station wagon, which were the minivans of the 60's and 70's.

 

[steveP120]

http://hyattsvillelife.com/exclusiv...-family-home-property-for-clues-in-1975-case/

I found this on some other thread. While a local newspaper did not solve the crime or report on breaking news, they did some original reporting on the Welch family and the local police activities in Hyattsville.

Just a reminder, everyone deserves a day in court and don't take the law into your own hands.

 

[steveP120]

People often follow the path of least resistance, and the path of least resistance is not to drive 3 or 4 hours, EACH way.

If the crime happened at 3:30 give or take 30 minutes, it would be 4 to 5 PM before Lloyd Welch could be able finagle a car and make it back to the bodies.

Assuming the uncle is innocent and only lent his car for what he thought was a legitimate purpose, it would be much easier to borrow a car saying, "I'll have the car back in your parking spot by the end of your shift at 9:30."

There would be much more questioning and resistance if asked to borrow a car overnight and having to ask his uncle to take the bus home.

From 4 or 5 PM to 9 PM would give Lloyd Welch 4 or 5.5 hours at the most to move and bury the bodies. One could make it almost 100 miles and back by 9:30, but not all the way to Taylor's Mountain. Not that I ever drove to Taylor's mountain, but I drove sort of past it to Virginia Tech a few times, and it was a full-day's trip, most of the day driving.

The path of least resistance would be to drive 10 to 20 miles past the suburbs and dispose of the bodies.

I think it was established from multiple family witnesses if not the police that Lloyd Welch was back in the area shortly after the disappearance, so he was not playing with live kidnap victims. If his security-guard uncle did not miss a day of work, the same applies.

In theory, they both could have driven down to Taylor's mountain and back in a night, but this would obviously require the uncle knowing a bit more than just being a sucker who lent his car to a nephew. The uncle may have thought the worst that could happen lending his car would be that Lloyd would get drunk like his father and kill someone like his father.

 

[Motherof5]

People often follow the path of least resistance, and the path of least resistance is not to drive 3 or 4 hours, EACH way.

If the crime happened at 3:30 give or take 30 minutes, it would be 4 to 5 PM before Lloyd Welch could be able finagle a car and make it back to the bodies.

Assuming the uncle is innocent and only lent his car for what he thought was a legitimate purpose, it would be much easier to borrow a car saying, "I'll have the car back in your parking spot by the end of your shift at 9:30."

There would be much more questioning and resistance if asked to borrow a car overnight and having to ask his uncle to take the bus home.

From 4 or 5 PM to 9 PM would give Lloyd Welch 4 or 5.5 hours at the most to move and bury the bodies. One could make it almost 100 miles and back by 9:30, but not all the way to Taylor's Mountain. Not that I ever drove to Taylor's mountain, but I drove sort of past it to Virginia Tech a few times, and it was a full-day's trip, most of the day driving.

The path of least resistance would be to drive 10 to 20 miles past the suburbs and dispose of the bodies.

I think it was established from multiple family witnesses if not the police that Lloyd Welch was back in the area shortly after the disappearance, so he was not playing with live kidnap victims. If his security-guard uncle did not miss a day of work, the same applies.

In theory, they both could have driven down to Taylor's mountain and back in a night, but this would obviously require the uncle knowing a bit more than just being a sucker who lent his car to a nephew. The uncle may have thought the worst that could happen lending his car would be that Lloyd would get drunk like his father and kill someone like his father.

I've not read anything stating where either Welch was right after the fact? The distance and 4 hour drive don't bother me at all. I think both men are involved and they took the girls to VA for many reasons. Every Taylor's Mountain local that I've read comments from, had never even heard of this case until now and there are so many places on that mountain that the girls could have been taken to and nobody would see them. I think that's exactly what happened. A lot of people who dispose of bodies 10-20 miles from the point of abduction, get caught. These men had access to a very large wooded area and the family cemetery,it makes absolute sense that they would take the girls there instead of anywhere close by where people will be looking for them. JMO

 

[simplifymylife2014]

:drumroll:

People often follow the path of least resistance, and the path of least resistance is not to drive 3 or 4 hours, EACH way.

If the crime happened at 3:30 give or take 30 minutes, it would be 4 to 5 PM before Lloyd Welch could be able finagle a car and make it back to the bodies.

Assuming the uncle is innocent and only lent his car for what he thought was a legitimate purpose, it would be much easier to borrow a car saying, "I'll have the car back in your parking spot by the end of your shift at 9:30."

There would be much more questioning and resistance if asked to borrow a car overnight and having to ask his uncle to take the bus home.

From 4 or 5 PM to 9 PM would give Lloyd Welch 4 or 5.5 hours at the most to move and bury the bodies. One could make it almost 100 miles and back by 9:30, but not all the way to Taylor's Mountain. Not that I ever drove to Taylor's mountain, but I drove sort of past it to Virginia Tech a few times, and it was a full-day's trip, most of the day driving.

The path of least resistance would be to drive 10 to 20 miles past the suburbs and dispose of the bodies.

I think it was established from multiple family witnesses if not the police that Lloyd Welch was back in the area shortly after the disappearance, so he was not playing with live kidnap victims. If his security-guard uncle did not miss a day of work, the same applies.

In theory, they both could have driven down to Taylor's mountain and back in a night, but this would obviously require the uncle knowing a bit more than just being a sucker who lent his car to a nephew. The uncle may have thought the worst that could happen lending his car would be that Lloyd would get drunk like his father and kill someone like his father.

I VERY STRONGLY BELIEVE in what mdietz47 has posted here of SEEING SHEILA!!!
I also believe that most likely, the other witness who claimed to see the station wagon also saw Katherine as well.
It makes me feel the other witness may have seen Katherine on the FLOOR of the back seat of where Sheila was lying or in the VERY BACK of the station wagon.
Therefore, if indeed both eyewitness testimonies are true, that means that Sheila and Kate were STILL ALIVE on April 7, which I believe is the date they reported.

I feel VERY STRONGLY that just as mdietz47 posted on here, that THAT station wagon WAS a vehicle from VIRGINIA, with what I believe was probably a FAKE Maryland tag. That is why, no researching of matching plate numbers would have led to that car which was owned in VIRGINIA!

I believe if they were seen alive THAT MANY DAYS after the abduction, that they were hiding out somewhere near Manassas, perhaps in a planned safe house.

This entire abduction seems VERY CAREFULLY planned to me!
Going on the premise that mdietz47 posts here are correct, that would explain HOW CAREFULLY PLANNED OUT this must have been,
all the way down to the detail of the abductors having clothing ready that would fit Sheila, so she would not be dressed as she was on March 25 at Wheaton Plaza.

As LE has stated, that after their investigation is over, there are going to be MANY OTHER CASES SOLVED!!!

That leads me to believe that:
1) Sheila and Katherine could have been the FIRST abduction taken there
2) THIS IS WHAT I MORE STRONGLY BELIEVE--that Sheila and Kate's abduction was only ONE OF MANY, and they had
MANY OTHER VICTIMS before them, whose remains are on Taylor's Mountain!!!
LE also said that almost every rock they overturn, has led to another lead and the other MC LE said he "personally believes" that the bodies of these
girls WILL BE FOUND on that VAST MOUNTAIN!!!
3) With ALL OF THE EVIDENCE BEING FOUND of perhaps, MULTIPLE REMAINS, THIS MAY VERY WELL BE NOT JUST A GROUP OF 2 OR 3 ABDUCTORS BUT A FULL
FLEDGE CRIME RING OF MULTIPLE PEOPLE!!!

I personally feel that there is a VERY STRONG possibility that RAW, Sr was the driver that mdietz47 saw, describing him as having dark hair with flecks of gray.

It seems that when MANY PIECES of the puzzle in this case start being put together, everything seems to be fitting in with mdietz47 posts.

The picture posted on News Media of RAW, Sr., standing next to a Country Squire wagon MATCHES the WOOD PANELING OF A SQUIRE, as well as THE SAME COLOR INTERIOR as mdietz47 described!!!

COINCIDENCE OF (1)PERSON OF INTEREST STANDING IN A PICTURE OF PERHAPS AROUND (2) 1975, STANDING NEXT TO what mdietz47 EYEWITNESS DESCRIBED CAREFULLY OF BEING (3) A COUNTY SQUIRE STATION WAGON AND (4)THE SAME COLOR INTERIOR??!!!

IMO, THAT IS THE VERY VEHICLE, (except that IT WAS PAINTED WHITE OR TAN, AS mdietz47 says it looked like it was REPAINTED and a Maryland tag was on it, even though it may have been owned by RAW, Sr. originally in Virginia, but USED IN MARYLAND, AS IS SEEN IN THE PIC OF RAW, SR. STANDING NEXT TO IT--
ALL SUPPORTED BY what mdietz47 said about THE VERY DETAILED NOTATION HE GAVE that there was ONLY A WESTERN COUNTY OF VIRGINIA PERSONAL PROPERTY STICKER in the left bottom corner of the car)that was used to perhaps, abduct and transport of the girls--eventually AT SOME POINT IN TIME to Taylor's Mountain.--INTERESTING....A WESTERN COUNTY OF VIRGINIA??!!!

 

[steveP120]

I don't have the dates on the top of my head, but when the reward was announced, but we have Lloyd Welch sitting a couch with his girlfriend (Helen?) and bragging to his step-mother that he was going to claim the reward. We also have an address reported to the police a few days later, but don't know it was over the phone or confirmed.

So we can be almost certain Lloyd Welch was not "playing" with live kidnap victims on Taylor's mountain at the same time.

While people have to made do with whatever is on hand, moving either dead bodies or live kidnap victims in a station wagon seems far riskier than transporting bodies in a car with a trunk. If stopped buy a cop with a dead body in the back of your (Pinto) wagon, your life is over. Even stopping for gas, or buying a shovel would be risky if someone walked by your station wagon. Of course one could throw a blanket over the bodies, if one had a blanket, but stopping for a blanket would add more risk. Even a truck driver looking down would be trouble. People looking in, as in the VA sighting, would be trouble.

If his uncle had a Pinto "station wagon," the bodies would be exposed in the back, and I would guess one would want to get rid of the bodies as soon as possible and not take a four-hour road trip.

There is a huge difference between thinking you saw someone you only knew only from a news report and actually seeing that person. With tens of thousands or people looking for the sisters at the time, one would expect a few people would see similar looking sisters, most of who were identified as being similar-looking sisters.

 

[isilverbell]

I think what simplifymylife is saying makes sense and I agree with you about mdeitz47 likely having seen Sheila that day in April '75. For this to have gone so seamlessly and to keep LE at bay for 40 years would likely have required preparation and planning. My only thought is that if this was their first abduction, why would they take the chance of taking two girls at once? Perhaps this wasn't their first rodeo and they had mastered the plan before and were therefore more confident? If preparation was involved and they were just hunting for the right victim/s, was it just the wrong place/wrong time that led to led to Sheila and Kate being chosen? I can't imagine that the perps were necessarily planning for a double abduction but that it is more likely the circumstances that day which made it easy to grab the girls together. They may have had to adjust their original plan, but since it sounds like more than one perpetrator were involved, the two victims were easily controlled (would be more difficult for just one perp).
I just hope these guys are indicted and the truth comes out with some sort of closure for the family (if that is even possible).

 

[thebigcookie]

:drumroll:

I VERY STRONGLY BELIEVE in what mdietz47 has posted here of SEEING SHEILA!!!
I also believe that most likely, the other witness who claimed to see the station wagon also saw Katherine as well.
It makes me feel the other witness may have seen Katherine on the FLOOR of the back seat of where Sheila was lying or in the VERY BACK of the station wagon.
Therefore, if indeed both eyewitness testimonies are true, that means that Sheila and Kate were STILL ALIVE on April 7, which I believe is the date they reported.

I feel VERY STRONGLY that just as mdietz47 posted on here, that THAT station wagon WAS a vehicle from VIRGINIA, with what I believe was probably a FAKE Maryland tag. That is why, no researching of matching plate numbers would have led to that car which was owned in VIRGINIA!

I believe if they were seen alive THAT MANY DAYS after the abduction, that they were hiding out somewhere near Manassas, perhaps in a planned safe house.

This entire abduction seems VERY CAREFULLY planned to me!
Going on the premise that mdietz47 posts here are correct, that would explain HOW CAREFULLY PLANNED OUT this must have been,
all the way down to the detail of the abductors having clothing ready that would fit Sheila, so she would not be dressed as she was on March 25 at Wheaton Plaza.

As LE has stated, that after their investigation is over, there are going to be MANY OTHER CASES SOLVED!!!

That leads me to believe that:
1) Sheila and Katherine could have been the FIRST abduction taken there
2) THIS IS WHAT I MORE STRONGLY BELIEVE--that Sheila and Kate's abduction was only ONE OF MANY, and they had
MANY OTHER VICTIMS before them, whose remains are on Taylor's Mountain!!!
LE also said that almost every rock they overturn, has led to another lead and the other MC LE said he "personally believes" that the bodies of these
girls WILL BE FOUND on that VAST MOUNTAIN!!!
3) With ALL OF THE EVIDENCE BEING FOUND of perhaps, MULTIPLE REMAINS, THIS MAY VERY WELL BE NOT JUST A GROUP OF 2 OR 3 ABDUCTORS BUT A FULL
FLEDGE CRIME RING OF MULTIPLE PEOPLE!!!

I personally feel that there is a VERY STRONG possibility that RAW, Sr was the driver that mdietz47 saw, describing him as having dark hair with flecks of gray.

It seems that when MANY PIECES of the puzzle in this case start being put together, everything seems to be fitting in with mdietz47 posts.

The picture posted on News Media of RAW, Sr., standing next to a Country Squire wagon MATCHES the WOOD PANELING OF A SQUIRE, as well as THE SAME COLOR INTERIOR as mdietz47 described!!!

COINCIDENCE OF (1)PERSON OF INTEREST STANDING IN A PICTURE OF PERHAPS AROUND (2) 1975, STANDING NEXT TO what mdietz47 EYEWITNESS DESCRIBED CAREFULLY OF BEING (3) A COUNTY SQUIRE STATION WAGON AND (4)THE SAME COLOR INTERIOR??!!!

IMO, THAT IS THE VERY VEHICLE, (except that IT WAS PAINTED WHITE OR TAN, AS mdietz47 says it looked like it was REPAINTED and a Maryland tag was on it, even though it may have been owned by RAW, Sr. originally in Virginia, but USED IN MARYLAND, AS IS SEEN IN THE PIC OF RAW, SR. STANDING NEXT TO IT--
ALL SUPPORTED BY what mdietz47 said about THE VERY DETAILED NOTATION HE GAVE that there was ONLY A WESTERN COUNTY OF VIRGINIA PERSONAL PROPERTY STICKER in the left bottom corner of the car)that was used to perhaps, abduct and transport of the girls--eventually AT SOME POINT IN TIME to Taylor's Mountain.--INTERESTING....A WESTERN COUNTY OF VIRGINIA??!!!

I also believe what mdietz saw were the Lyon sisters. When the driver saw the witness looking, he sped off to get away. And you have a valid point about that license plate being fake. I, on the other hand, do not believe it was tape recorder man and I will explain why on the tape recorder man thread sometime this week. I have some unusual interests and hobbies of my own to compare with tape recorder man. I hope they find these girls on Taylor's Mountain soon. It will be interesting to see what other cases this opens up. I just hope they can settle this by the end of the year. Somewhat unrelated, all this talk of station wagons and seeing the sisters in one reminded me of a quote from an episode of All in the Family: "In a court of law, you can't beat a station wagon filled with nuns!"

 

[simplifymylife2014]

steveP120:

That is A VERY IMPORTANT AND INTERSTING point about LLW being with HC that day and calling in a tip.
Why would LLW be SO CONVINCED he could get the money if he didn't really KNOW a tip
that would lead to him receiving the reward?
Could he have been just fooling around being right there in Maryland under everyone's sight and flaunting it?
Were they at a holding location in Manassas and then after being seen by witnesses,
then headed to Taylor's Mountain?

There are SO MANY different scenarios to choose from, such as could LLW have been the
one trying to get the ransom?
Did he or RAW somehow know that the girls' father was
John Lyon on WMAL? Were they planning to split the money?

If the girls were seen bound and gagged, it would be interesting to ask mdietz47 if when
Sheila’s head came up above the BACK DOOR TO THE BOTTOM PART OF THE WINDOW,
did her MOUTH show and if so, did he see her gagged?

If a station wagon was used, could it be that, that was the only vehicle they had and this
was just a smaller family operation with RAW taking a chance of not being seen in Manassas
heading to another place?

It would appear that if the girls were spotted ALIVE in Manassas, VA by TWO DIFFERENT EYEWITNESSES
AT THE SAME STOPLIGHT, that their plan was not to take their lives right away after the abduction.

Well, it appears LE has A LOT of EVIDENCE, not only from Taylor's Mountain, but if I'm not mistaken, A LOT was
also found and removed according to news media from the home of RAW in Maryland, which suggests to me that
RAW may have been extremely involved for a long time period in these kinds of activities.

Add to that, LLW criminal record and 30 years of traveling the country with the carnival, and we may possibly
be seeing that the 2 persons of interest themselves, may have been part of MANY horrific crimes.

I agree that LE probably has most of the evidence and witnesses they need and
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, is to bring these precious girls home, along with any other victims being brought
home and CLOSURE AND JUSTICE brought, specifically regarding this case, to the Lyon parents and family,
as well as ALL of the perhaps MANY other families.

Time will tell and start unraveling all of the facts and mysteries surrounding this horrifying case!!!

I am only about 5 months younger than Sheila and lived in MC at the time.
I too am looking for closure in this heart - wrenching case.
Now, I guess you can see WHY, THIS PARTICULAR CASE, is VERY CLOSE to my heart.

 

[steveP120]

If my memory is correct, I think Richard never found any evidence that Lloyd Welch ever had a drivers license.

Lloyd Welch was fined, a fine he never paid, for driving without a license, I believe a few years later in Gaithersburg.

If Lloyd Welch did not have a drivers license (but knew how to drive) it would both decrease the chance that anyone would lend him a car (Lloyd could lie about having a license) and decrease the chance that Lloyd would want to drive far without a license with two bodies in a car's back or trunk.

People often get away with crimes because of dumb luck and not brains. Scavenger animals
"helping" an idiot hide bodies is as possible as someone, such as the mob, knowing how to make bodies disappear.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

If my memory is correct, I think Richard never found any evidence that Lloyd Welch ever had a drivers license.

Lloyd Welch was fined, a fine he never paid, for driving without a license, I believe a few years later in Gaithersburg.

If Lloyd Welch did not have a drivers license (but knew how to drive) it would both decrease the chance that anyone would lend him a car (Lloyd could lie about having a license) and decrease the chance that Lloyd would want to drive far without a license with two bodies in a car's back or trunk.

People often get away with crimes because of dumb luck and not brains. Scavenger animals
"helping" an idiot hide bodies is as possible as someone, such as the mob, knowing how to make bodies disappear.

IMO, I believe RAW, Sr. was the driver the day 2 witnesses saw him and the 2 girls ALIVE, bound and gagged, NOT deceased and in the back or a trunk.

Perhaps, if their lives were taken, they were taken on Taylor's Mountain itself or a very remote area in Bedford County, VA and then taken to the mountain.

 

[AAWJ]

IMO, I believe RAW, Sr. was the driver the day 2 witnesses saw him and the 2 girls ALIVE, bound and gagged, NOT deceased and in the back or a trunk.

Perhaps, if their lives were taken, they were taken on Taylor's Mountain itself or a very remote area in Bedford County, VA and then taken to the mountain.

If RAW Sr was the driver then he would have disappeared for hours and would have his wife and kids been worried? He would have been gone for more than 15 hours probably. I think his wife would have wounder where is was. Also it states LLW was an outcast in the family. So why would RAW Sr help him?

 

[Richard]

Tan Station Wagon comments...

On Tuesday, 7 April 1975, it was reported widely that someone had seen a tan or beige 1968 Ford Station Wagon in downtown morning rush hour traffic in Manassas, Virginia. The person who saw that vehicle was an IBM employee who claimed that the car was being driven by a middle aged man who "resembled" a sketch which had been in the newspapers and on TV for a week of the "Tape Recorder Man". He also claimed to have seen a girl or girls tied up in the back of the station wagon and that the driver went through a red light and sped off. The license plate was, he said, a new (bicentennial style) Maryland Plate (white with red letters) that read "DMT-6xx. He claimed that he could not read the last two numerals because the plate was bent.

Fast forward to about 2010, MDeitz began posting on websleuths and granting newspaper interviews that he, too, had seen the tan station wagon, and saw it go through a red light in Manassas and that he attempted to follow it. MDeitz also stated that it was a Ford Station Wagon, but was a newer model. He stated that he knew this because he had a similar car himself. He claims to have seen one girl, whom he believes was Sheila Lyon in the back of that Station Wagon. He said that the station wagon had an inspection sticker from Virginia, but I do not recall any comments about the license plate itself. He states that he did report it to police on that same day, 7 April 1975.

Note that both witnesses indicated that this was a station wagon of 1968 to 70 vintage. The Ford Pinto wagon did not appear until 1972, and was of a much smaller size than the older/traditional station wagons. While it could possibly have been a Ford Falcon Station Wagon, it is more likely that it was the longer lived and larger Ford Country Squire Wagon with the fake wood paneling on sides and tailgate. Note that 1968 was the last year for the 5th generation of that model, and that 1969 marked a model change to the 6th generation.

There has been much speculation regarding these reported sightings. It would seem that one validates the other, but it should be noted that police only released information about the IBM man sighting a tan 1968 Ford SW with plate number DMT-6xx at the time. It was reported as a large break in the case in 1975, and many truckers and motorists were on the look out for such a car. Eventually, police accounted for all 100 "DMT-6xx" plates in Maryland and looked into other states with similar color schemes as well.

Those sightings very likely occurred, but whether or not it was the Lyon sisters in the car is the big question. If it was them, then it would indicate that at least one of them was still alive two weeks after their abduction. But it could also have been one of many hoaxes being perpetrated around that time. It also could have been a mistaken identity sighting, of which there were also many.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

If RAW Sr was the driver then he would have disappeared for hours and would have his wife and kids been worried? He would have been gone for more than 15 hours probably. I think his wife would have wounder where is was. Also it states LLW was an outcast in the family. So why would RAW Sr help him?

(BBM) It was a different time. My father tells a story of he and buddy going "out for pizza," leaving the wives and children at home, and coming back the next day. These days, that would land you a snappy divorce. In the 70s, not so much.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

mdietz47 eyewitness info given got overshadowed by the first eyewitness.
Do we have DETAILED ANYWHERE about the first eyewitness' statements besides what Richard has already stated?
I do believe both witnesses info could be corroborated.

I am not stating for sure, but I know LE has stated that "memberS" or "relativeS" (PLURAL) OF LLW may have been involved.
So, regarding RAW, Sr. being gone, perhaps his relative was aware of things going on but didn't get involved.
There have been many women, who, KNOWING their spouse WAS and IS CONTINUING TO BE UNFAITHFUL and cheating on them, continue to stay with them, for whatever psychological reasons.

There are people today and in the past that, rather than getting involved and FULLY KNOWING what wrong things their OWN family members are doing,
they go on for YEARS, perhaps pretending and blocking out the reality that these things are going on.

HOWEVER, AS LE has stated, it is ALMOST 40 YEARS NOW THAT MANY DIFFERENT FAMILY MEMBERS and perhaps NEIGHBORS and OTHERS, that
HAVE INFORMATION AND NOW IS THE TIME TO "DO THE RIGHT THING" AND COME FORWARD!!!

Just like the old story of the person who was just sitting in the car when the robbers robbed the bank, THEY ARE STILL COUNTED
AS ACCOMPLICES OF THE CRIME!!

 

[Motherof5]

I don't have the dates on the top of my head, but when the reward was announced, but we have Lloyd Welch sitting a couch with his girlfriend (Helen?) and bragging to his step-mother that he was going to claim the reward. We also have an address reported to the police a few days later, but don't know it was over the phone or confirmed.

So we can be almost certain Lloyd Welch was not "playing" with live kidnap victims on Taylor's mountain at the same time.

While people have to made do with whatever is on hand, moving either dead bodies or live kidnap victims in a station wagon seems far riskier than transporting bodies in a car with a trunk. If stopped buy a cop with a dead body in the back of your (Pinto) wagon, your life is over. Even stopping for gas, or buying a shovel would be risky if someone walked by your station wagon. Of course one could throw a blanket over the bodies, if one had a blanket, but stopping for a blanket would add more risk. Even a truck driver looking down would be trouble. People looking in, as in the VA sighting, would be trouble.

If his uncle had a Pinto "station wagon," the bodies would be exposed in the back, and I would guess one would want to get rid of the bodies as soon as possible and not take a four-hour road trip.

There is a huge difference between thinking you saw someone you only knew only from a news report and actually seeing that person. With tens of thousands or people looking for the sisters at the time, one would expect a few people would see similar looking sisters, most of who were identified as being similar-looking sisters.

The fact that you would even say " playing with the live kidnap victims" is creepy and disrespectful to the victims. As for the rest, I'll just let LE keep doing their jobs and see what they've found on the 2 POI's because believe it or not, LE knows more about this case and the POI's than anyone in this forum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[simplifymylife2014]

I do agree with motherof5 that things are now in the hands of LE and that they definitely have more info now than we do.
It is so hard to be patient until things are more disclosed after the investigation.

One of my favorite illustrations is:
If you or I were working with a team of Search and Rescue Agents, would you or I be UPSET if someone else
FOUND AND RESCUED EVEN JUST ONE PERSON and we weren't the one who found them?

ABSOLUTELY NOT, if our motives are pure!!
We would REJOICE IF EVEN ONE PERSON WAS RESCUED!!
So, today, whether MCP or VA LE or the FBI or SOME ONE HERE ON WEBSLEUTHS is the MAIN ONE who solved the case, WHO CARES??!!

The PRECIOUS LIVES of 2 Beautiful Young Girls are involved here, along with their loved ones, SO I WANT TO REJOICE NO MATTER WHAT!!!

However, motherof5, EVEN IF JUST ONE IOTA OF INFORMATION THAT WE EACH MAY HAVE SHARED HERE HAS HELPED IN SOME SMALL WAY,
then I'm sure you would agree, that WE WILL EACH REJOICE EVEN MORE!!

 

[Fukiyama]

Regarding LLW and why he called in about the ransom, has it been considered that he called in because he was not the primary in this crime, but rather the helper and then chose to pass along details he thought could score himself some money without harming whomever recruited him to help? Just a thought I've been considering as the ransom discussion has gone on.

Regarding the IBM witness to the station wagon, Richard covered the details that we know from the police back in 75, partial plate, girl bound in back, tan color. As far as I know or remember, that's all that was ever shared by MCPD.