Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
The whole saga of Lloyd Welch, as told by the MCP, is a strange one.

A cold case department which has seldom reached back to re-interview old eyewitnesses, all of a sudden came up with Lloyd Welch in 2014 by looking through boxes and boxes of files? Right.

It is most likely that a relative of Lloyd learned from visiting Lloyd that he had a story about being present at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975 and that he tried to pass information to MCP in order to collect a reward. He may have elaborated on that and implicated other family members.

It is most likely that the relative passed on information concerning Lloyd's statements and story to MCP and in that way got the attention of MCP focussed on checking Lloyd out.

MCP checked into their files, specifically looking for anything from or about Lloyd and found his 1 April 1975 statements to them, in which he provided them with his Hyattsville address. He had been given a lie detector test which showed him up for the liar that he was and MCP subsequently blew off anything he had to say on the subject. "Off with you then..."

Looking further into Lloyd's record (recently), they found mug shots from 1977 and some rather disturbing information about arrests for burglary, assault, etc. in Maryland and also sexual offenses in other states. He started to look like a viable suspect - and after being interviewed in a Delaware prison, was designated a "Person of Interest" in the Lyon case.

MCP has not released the full text of their interview with Lloyd or his statements to them, but it is known from subsequent Search Warrants issued that Lloyd has stated that he not only saw the Lyon sisters that day, but that he actually got into the car with them, and that also present in the car was his Uncle Richard Welch and his (then) 11-year-old cousin Thomas Welch II.

It should be remembered that at this point, we know of only Lloyd's quoted statements which connect Richard and Thomas to the case. Both deny any connection. We do not know what evidence (if any) MCP has found to date in their searches of the Richard Welch home or of his property in Thaxton, VA.

It is also interesting to note that Lloyd's stepmother stated that when news of a reward came out (1 April 1975) Lloyd stated that he intended to call in a "tip" to police in order to claim the reward - AND that he did, in fact, call in that tip.

MCP early on (February 2014) indicated that they had Lloyds Hyattsville address GIVEN to them on 1 April 1975, and only recently came out with the story that he had approached a Wheaton Plaza Security Guard on that very date to try and pass on his "Tip" of having seen the girls get into a car with an unknown man.

MCP has also asked WMAL radio if they would still honor their 1975 $7,000 reward (and they said they would). This may be significant in that they can use it to further entice Lloyd to provide them with more information. Certainly if they wanted just anyone to give them information, they could have gotten Crime Solvers to have put up a much higher amount. But it may be significant in that the origional reward of $7,000 was to go to "the first person" who provided information leading to the return of the girls.

There are also unresolved questions regarding the story about a 12 year-old girl who came forward on 27 March 1975 to MCP with a story about being with the Lyon sisters and being followed around Wheaton Plaza by a young man with long hair who was "bothering" them. She described him and a sketch was made by MCP officer Davis Morton. This sketch was never released at the time, but MCP cold case officers came across it in their files and they feel that it may have been Lloyd Welch. In their February 2014 press conference, they did a side-by-side comparison of Lloyd's 1977 mug shot with that sketch of the Long Haired Man (LHM).

Who was this girl? What was her full story? Why did MCP NOT release it to the public at the time? Why did they finally release the LHM sketch in November 2013 with an odd cover story about area rapes, making only a passing reference to "an incident at Wheaton Plaza"? What other information do they have which convinces them that this LHM was Lloyd Welch? And - if Lloyd is LHM - what area rapes do they think he committed?

Lloyd has reportedly also stated that he "walked in" on his Uncle Richard at Richard's Hyattsville home and caught him in the act of molesting one of the Lyon sisters - but that he left and never saw the girls again. A story even odder than his just happening to get into a car with them (but he forgot to mention this back in 1975).

Lloyd Welch had just turned 18 years old in December 1974, and was said to walk or hitch rides every where. He did not have a drivers license. In fact, his story about just riding in the car with the Lyon Sisters, et al is somewhat consistant with those facts.

It would seem that Lloyd Welch is being considered more as a material witness and possible conspirator in the disappearance of the Lyon Sisters, rather than as the one and only perpetrator/suspect - and that police are proceeding along those lines in their investigation.
 
There are a number of questions regarding Lloyd Welch, Jr. and his involvement with the Lyon Sisters that come to mind.

Was he actually at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975? He claims that he was, and that part of his story seems to have remained consistant since he first started to tell it on 1 April 1975.

Can his presence there be corroborated? Possibly the unnamed girl who described LHM could identify him today - or statements made by Lloyd in 1975 might correlate to her story. Or perhaps other known 1975 eyewitness statements might mention the LHM or Lloyd by description or even name.

Did Lloyd, in his 1975 statement, describe what the Lyon Sisters were wearing that day? Although the earliest newspaper reports described some of their clothing, a more detailed list of their clothing was not released until after 1 April 1975. Such a detail might tend to confirm his presence that day.

If it can be definitely concluded that Lloyd was present that day, other questions follow:

- What did Lloyd actually say to MCP investigators in his 1 April 75 statements? Can the Wheaton Plaza Security guard be identified to corroborate his story, either in person, or through an old written report he may have submitted separate from the MCP notes and summary?

- Did Lloyd (in 1975) describe the "unknown" man he claimed to have seen putting the Lyon sisters into a vehicle? Did he describe the vehicle?

- Did he just make up a story in order to claim the WMAL $7,000 reward?

- Was he actually an eyewitness and ONLY an eyewitness to their abduction?

- Did he abduct the girls on his own? If so, how?

- Did he work in concert with his uncle(s) or other persons in abducting the girls?

- How much of his stories are true and how much is fantasy? How do his 1975 statements compare with his more recent statements?

- Did he make any statements regarding a man with a tape recorder (TRM)? He certainly had read of that story on 1 April 75, when he came forth with his "tip" to claim the reward, because both stories (TRM and the WMAL reward) were front page news that day. He either would have included a statement linking the TRM to the abduction, or would have said that No, he did not think it was the same person - or that he did or did not see the TRM. MCP certainly would have asked Lloyd about TRM, as he was the top subject of the day.

- Did Lloyd make the Ransom calls to the Lyon family in April 1975, claiming knowledge of the girls' whereabouts and safe return in exchange for $10,000? We know that he had tried to claim a $7,000 reward and had been turned away by police. Could he have next tried to get money in a different way by calling the Lyon family? Perhaps the distinction between offering a legitimate tip and criminally demanding a ransom was lost on Lloyd.

- Does Lloyd claim to know what became of the Lyon Sisters after last seeing them in Hyattsville, MD?
 
One thing that makes me think that LW was somehow involved in the Lyon sisters disappearance...After 39 years, he probably would have forgotten about the entire case, if he was not somehow involved or at a minimum, observed the girls in the car with his uncle as he stated to LE. His criminal past puts him in several jails for different offenses. He has lived in several different states and traveled around the country. Had he not done something to the girls or observed something being done to them he probably would not even recall it. MOO
 
I have to say that is surprising to see the post on RAW1's FB page.

1) Is it possible that he or some other relative posted it because it is an article which FOCUSES ON LLW2 and if I'm not mistaken, I do not think that as of the date of the article posted, RAW1 was NOT yet named as a person of interest?

2) Richard, your many comments and questions for thought in your posts were VERY interesting.

I don't think I ever even CONSIDERED LLW2 as the one who could have asked for ransom money, but it makes sense.

It appears that besides things of a sexual nature, LLW2 was very interested in stealing and in having money.

3) I do agree that perhaps there is a genetic imperfection that could be passed on to family members of being drawn toward sexual misconduct,
however, like all improper desires--self-control is a MUST, especially when it involves other people and children.

4) I would have to think that for LLW2 to jump from saying he was there that day at WP--to saying he was IN THE SAME CAR as RAW1, perhaps he had been offered some bargaining from LE--regarding his prison term or jail time for future convictions of him regarding this case.
 
We do not know any details of MCP's interview with Lloyd in prison. But it should be remembered that he was coming up for a parole hearing to be considered for early release when the interviews were conducted in 2013. Whether or not LE offered Lloyd a deal of some sort is not known.

Lloyd was named a Person of Interest in February 2014. Some time after that, he was turned down for early release.
 
We do know that he personally witnessed as a child, being a passenger in the same car, the day his mother was killed in a car accident, in which his father LLW1 was the driver.

Was his father drinking which caused the car accident?

He was taken from living with his father and lived with others until he was older. Then I think he lived with his father and stepmother for a while.

His stepmother could probably fill in the spaces.

LLW2 was spoken of as always getting into trouble.
Perhaps the car accident contributed to a rebellious spirit?

I would think his mental state got very bad after witnessing his own mother's death in the car accident.

Didn't he live with his uncle for a time?

Does anyone have the link which mentions the car accident?

I found an article that mentions the car accident. Did you know that Lloyd, Jr.'s mother was pregnant when she was killed in that crash?
 
Lloyd Lee Welch Jr. indicted on first-degree murder charges in Lyon sisters case

WHEATON, Md. (AP) - Authorities on Wednesday announced an indictment on first-degree felony murder charges in the disappearance of two sisters from a suburban Maryland mall in 1975, bringing some clarity to the baffling case that made parents question whether to allow their children out of their homes alone.

Twelve-year-old Sheila Lyon and 10-year-old Katharine Lyon walked from their house to the Wheaton Plaza Mall in March 1975. They never came home. No bodies were found.

Lloyd Lee Welch Jr. Indictments
 
Police and family have been quoted as saying that LLW2 also went by the name "Michael." I thought perhaps it could be to minimize confusion because they were so many "Lloyds" in the family; Lloyd Sr, Lloyd Jr, Lloyd David...

However, it might be more confusing to have two brothers who went by the same name "Michael." The Washington Post article "Wife Killed, Four Hurt in Auto Crash" from November 7, 1960 states that 22 year old (pregnant) mother Margaret Anne Welch, (nee Dull), died at a Baltimore hospital from head injuries sustained in a car accident in which her 28 year old husband Lloyd Sr. was driving and struck a (utility) pole. The accident also injured Lloyd and Margaret's "two children" and another "child" passenger (Patricia Joan Dull) who were also in the car. Lloyd Jr. "sustained a broken leg", and "another son", "Michael" suffered some cuts.

Did the Washington Post get the names wrong in 1960, or did Lloyd Jr. have a brother named "Michael". If he did have a brother named Michael, whatever became of him, and why would Lloyd Jr. go by the name of Michael if he actually had a brother named Michael?

In his father Lloyd Sr's April 1998 obituary, LLW1 is not even referred to as "Sr." The obituary lists all of LLW1's surviving children, step-children from Edna's prior marriages, and LLW1's brothers, and sisters. However, there is no mention at all of Lloyd Jr. or the mysterious "Michael" that were in the car that tragic day. It seems history is whitewashed over time.
 
Police and family have been quoted as saying that LLW2 also went by the name "Michael." I thought perhaps it could be to minimize confusion because they were so many "Lloyds" in the family; Lloyd Sr, Lloyd Jr, Lloyd David...

I have no evidence to support this, and I may have jumped to a wrong conclusion, but when the police announced Lloyd/Mike as a person of interest, I assumed he was using multiple names for criminal purposes.

When dating underage girls, traveling around the country as a carnival worker and driving without a license, one might use a fake name to make being identified more difficult.
 
Haven't some family members said that they have disowned LW2? Depending upon who wrote the obituary of LW1, that might explain why LW2 was not included as a survivor.
 
However, it might be more confusing to have two brothers who went by the same name "Michael." The Washington Post article "Wife Killed, Four Hurt in Auto Crash" from November 7, 1960 states that 22 year old (pregnant) mother Margaret Anne Welch, (nee Dull), died at a Baltimore hospital from head injuries sustained in a car accident in which her 28 year old husband Lloyd Sr. was driving and struck a (utility) pole. The accident also injured Lloyd and Margaret's "two children" and another "child" passenger (Patricia Joan Dull) who were also in the car. Lloyd Jr. "sustained a broken leg", and "another son", "Michael" suffered some cuts.

Did the Washington Post get the names wrong in 1960, or did Lloyd Jr. have a brother named "Michael". If he did have a brother named Michael, whatever became of him, and why would Lloyd Jr. go by the name of Michael if he actually had a brother named Michael?

In his father Lloyd Sr's April 1998 obituary, LLW1 is not even referred to as "Sr." The obituary lists all of LLW1's surviving children, step-children from Edna's prior marriages, and LLW1's brothers, and sisters. However, there is no mention at all of Lloyd Jr. or the mysterious "Michael" that were in the car that tragic day. It seems history is whitewashed over time.

I don't recall seeing a solid source, but second-hand family sources said that Lloyd Sr. lost custody of his son Lloyd for a few years following the accident and for his conviction for causing the accident and death by his drunk driving.

I suppose if he lost custody of Lloyd, it's likely he lost custody of another son (Michael), and may not have regained custody. This is obviously speculation.
 
Haven't some family members said that they have disowned LW2? Depending upon who wrote the obituary of LW1, that might explain why LW2 was not included as a survivor.

I could have missed it or forgotten it, but I don't think I heard anyone say Lloyd was disowned.

A couple of family members said Lloyd was "the black sheep of a family."

The cousin who helped burn the duffel bags was warned by other family members to stay away from Lloyd. "He's trouble. Trouble all the way around."

Lloyd (Jr.) was just starting his Delaware prison sentence in 1997, a year before his father died in 1998.
If the father had any money, he could have written him out of his will, if he had a will, for practical reasons - Lloyd has little use of money in prison and other relatives would have uses for the money.
 
Police and family have been quoted as saying that LLW2 also went by the name "Michael." I thought perhaps it could be to minimize confusion because they were so many "Lloyds" in the family; Lloyd Sr, Lloyd Jr, Lloyd David...

However, it might be more confusing to have two brothers who went by the same name "Michael." The Washington Post article "Wife Killed, Four Hurt in Auto Crash" from November 7, 1960 states that 22 year old (pregnant) mother Margaret Anne Welch, (nee Dull), died at a Baltimore hospital from head injuries sustained in a car accident in which her 28 year old husband Lloyd Sr. was driving and struck a (utility) pole. The accident also injured Lloyd and Margaret's "two children" and another "child" passenger (Patricia Joan Dull) who were also in the car. Lloyd Jr. "sustained a broken leg", and "another son", "Michael" suffered some cuts.

Did the Washington Post get the names wrong in 1960, or did Lloyd Jr. have a brother named "Michael". If he did have a brother named Michael, whatever became of him, and why would Lloyd Jr. go by the name of Michael if he actually had a brother named Michael?

In his father Lloyd Sr's April 1998 obituary, LLW1 is not even referred to as "Sr." The obituary lists all of LLW1's surviving children, step-children from Edna's prior marriages, and LLW1's brothers, and sisters. However, there is no mention at all of Lloyd Jr. or the mysterious "Michael" that were in the car that tragic day. It seems history is whitewashed over time.

Michael was also named as one of the other children in the car by a poster on my TMD page.
 
So, do you know if there was another son named, Michael, or is it some confusion because Lloyd Jr went by the name Michael. I have heard others call him Michael also.
 
Ok, I just found the 1998 obituary for Lloyd Lee Welch (Sr.) posted on find-a-grave. That is very interesting that they name four children of his: three boys and one girl, but do not mention Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. or any son named Michael. Can anyone shed some light on this? Also, are these 4 other biological children still living?
 
I could have missed it or forgotten it, but I don't think I heard anyone say Lloyd was disowned.

A couple of family members said Lloyd was "the black sheep of a family."

The cousin who helped burn the duffel bags was warned by other family members to stay away from Lloyd. "He's trouble. Trouble all the way around."

Lloyd (Jr.) was just starting his Delaware prison sentence in 1997, a year before his father died in 1998.
If the father had any money, he could have written him out of his will, if he had a will, for practical reasons - Lloyd has little use of money in prison and other relatives would have uses for the money.

I don't think that would explain the omission of LLW2 name among the list of children of LLW1 in his obituary which was probably written by his second wife, Edna Alyene Welch.
 
As far as lose-a-grave goes faux pas are not a crime. But the parents LLW1 are Tilghman Lee Welch and Gladys May Dooley. A good source is Bedford VA marriages, and Taylors MT website.
There is no Rockfield MD and there is no Lusby TN, and Lamance is spelled Laymance. Newspaper quotes, although reliable, are not necessarily a proven fact. Darlene Hawn (Scotton) in USAtoday said "didn't know he (Michael) was involved in that crime "

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/15/delaware-suspect-lyon-cold-case/30189857/


Withholding crucial information and contributing to an ongoing cloak of secrecy only works if the entire group presents a strong front with no one breaking rank. A long line of balanced dominoes against the windy prosecution, will hopely fill tiers and tiers of cells.-Sheriff Brown
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
149
Guests online
1,641
Total visitors
1,790

Forum statistics

Threads
603,752
Messages
18,162,253
Members
231,839
Latest member
Backhand
Back
Top