Local 6 - DP motion just DENIED

[21merc7]

speaking of which...how much will it hurt her not to take the stand in her own defense considering she is the mother of the victim? as a juror, although I know I would be instructed that her not taking the stand should not be interpreted as a sign of guilt....as a mother myself in that situation the last thought on my mind would be to save my own skin and my only thought would be to help find the real killer! and saying everything I know, regardless of how incriminating it may be would be most important. She should have an extreme sense of urgency, like most family members of victims, on finding the real killer. Neither KC nor her parents have this. Why? KC is the killer

In defense attorney world, the last thing you ever want to happen is to have your client on the stand. Everyone speaks differently, inflects differently, has little nervous ticks, just you name it. If no two people can understand each other after years of knowing each other, even being married and living together, no one is going to understand a defendant in a brief few minutes. It has been proven over the centuries, just keep them off the stand.

 

[Themis]

If that's the case, why do trials get moved? If all of what you said happens, there should never be a reason to move a trial. It shouldn't even be an option.

I agree that, in theory, you're right. I also agree that, in theory, there are 18-24 people in Orlando who haven't followed the case and would be acceptable jurors. I don't think the defense will take that chance though, and I don't think the judge will deny moving the trial to Tallahassee, Jacksonville or Miami.

In theory, if the jurors all follow the directions as given by the judge, all trials will be fair and impartial. In practice? Not so much.

Remember though, a change of venue was a remedy that was developed when communities were much more isolated. With the advent of the internet, we may be seeing a demise of that remedy as a means to satisfy due process.

In theory, if a King was divinely ordained, then all justice meted out by an ordained King was true and fair justice. In reality; not so much. Hence, we have the Magna Carta in 1215 and all developments thereafter. Law is not static.

(So, what kind of fragrance should I buy for a stocking stuffer for men? Ideas? [Boy! Is that off topic! But, in my defense, timely.])

 

[Cat13067]

I think KC deserves the maximum sentence for her crime if she is proven guilty. John Cuey got the death sentence for killing Jessica Lungsford. What makes KC so different than John Cuey?

 

[The World According]

Scott Peterson was convicted on a lot less circumstantial evidence that this case has. There will be justice for little Caylee. I like this judge.

 

[legalmania]

By your own statement then you are saying that KC is not a psychopath. Is that correct?

Would a panicked person even drive around for two 1/2 days with a body in their car or would they be so panicked they would fear getting in an accident and being found out?

Sorry, I see nothing in Casey's demeanor to ever indicate panic. Have you seen some of the things she had posted on her my space account?

There is a little more to a psychopath that just panic. There are quite a few more symptoms involved.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/55051?verify=0

 

[sleutherontheside]

In defense attorney world, the last thing you ever want to happen is to have your client on the stand. Everyone speaks differently, inflects differently, has little nervous ticks, just you name it. If no two people can understand each other after years of knowing each other, even being married and living together, no one is going to understand a defendant in a brief few minutes. It has been proven over the centuries, just keep them off the stand.

You could not be more right. Plus.....given the "word salad" that is constantly served from the A family members, she would be picked apart even for statements that were truthful (not that I think she would have many of those).

 

[RR0004]

I understand that, but the problem is that he can't [prove his facts. He can't prove that the duct tape was applied to kill her, it's just his theory of how it happened.

I have no doubt that the very last face Caylee saw before she died was of KC. I have no doubt that KC caused her death, either intentionally or by accident, and she panicked. I do have doubts that the duct tape was the murder weapon, I lean more towards something chemical, and then KC freaked out and didn't know what to do.

I just think that, by stating in the court record and therefore publicly that JA's recitation was of 'facts' he has said something he might not have intended to say.

I could be wrong

Were those the only "facts' that he stated (sorry...I didn't watch the entire hearing). Did he not make statements of "fact" regarding the law and how it pertained to seeking the death penalty?

 

[legalmania]

Scott Peterson was convicted on a lot less circumstantial evidence that this case has. There will be justice for little Caylee. I like this judge.

Scott Peterson couldn't keep his mouth shut. Scott Petersons arrogance helped get him behind bars. It's obvious there is no love loss between this judge and Baez, but that may be the very thing that gets the defense an appeal.

 

[Eidetic]

KC and her mama's "pissed face" are identical

She gets her crazy eyes and the smug smirk from her as well. All this picture is missing is the creepy wink.

 

[TorisMom003]

The problem is...we didn't see her demeanor when it happened. We see it now, 18 months later. None of us know whether she panicked or not when it actually happened, she hid from the people who knew her best.

I'm in no way defending her actions, they were IMO wrong and morally incomprehensible to me. As a father, I could never have hurt my child intentionally, and when I did by accident it tore me up inside. Whether she's a true psychopath or not, I don't know and we'll never know. 99.9% of us here on the board only know what we read and see in the media, we don't actually know her.

People do dumb things when they panic. I've done some REALLY dumb things in a panic when I was around her age, and I'm no psychopath. Emotions, panic and fear make you act in a much different way than you would normally act.

Again, I'm not defending her. I think she's guilty and that she deserves to be punished. I just think there's more to the story than we will ever really know, unless she comes forward and tells us, which I sincerely doubt will happen.

As far as what is posted on her Myspace...I'll pull out my cane and shake it in the air here...those damn kids post all kinds of things on there, and most are not cold blooded killers. I'd be willing to bet that if you looked in the Myspace & Facebook accounts of most 21 & 22 year olds, they have something posted in there that you could read and say OMG!!! She's a killer!!! The things you say & do in your early 20's are not always what most of us over 30 would call rational, or mature, or even smart. I would tend to discount most of what is posted there that is not her original content (i.e. the 'stickers' that say silly things) and take them with a grain of salt. They mean less than most people think...it's just to look cool to her peer group.

We do however have the video of her and TL at Blockbusters (?) the night that Caylee "went missing". There was no sign at all of any panic. We also have TL's depo that Casey never told him anything was wrong with Caylee, never acted strangely, etc. This was the same day as the "incident" happened, not 18 months later. So while we are seeing and hearing these things 18 months later we are seeing and hearing what actually happened at the time. Casey and her lawyers know that the pictures, videos, and testimony of friends and family are going to be what they can not explain away. Casey behaved in her normal fashion and NOT as someone would who was in a panic.

ETA Thank you MM for posting this and all of the other things you do as well!

 

[legalmania]

Were those the only "facts' that he stated (sorry...I didn't watch the entire hearing). Did he not make statements of "fact" regarding the law and how it pertained to seeking the death penalty?

Here is the article and the order RR. I didn't watch either.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/22005422/detail.html

 

[RR0004]

I am not going to presume which 'facts' the Judge is referring to in his statement. JA references to the LAW may be the facts the Judge is referring to.

From the video referenced below (transcribed but not word by word)

JA: the facts that the defense argued their opinion and that the death penalty is available for 1st degree murder w/out special aggravating circumstances in FL. Why does prosecution waive it sometimes (to bring it before a jury) is more appropriate. Case law does say court is not permitted to make a pre-trial decision on special/aggravated circumstances - but that is what defense is arguing. Can if there is "bad-faith" for decision- case law is limited to where it can be shown if based on race, gender, religious beliefs or sexual orientation. Prosecutor is trying to punish defendant outside of the crime - defense has not presented anything that shows prosecutorial decision has done so. Defense goes on to allege that before Caylee's body was not found and no death penalty and once body was found and state's case became stronger then prosecutor needed 'advantage' of death penalty jury to win - why waive when case weaker and reinstate when stronger?

Then JA goes on with the innocence statement and the worst case scenario he gave which others are assuming are the 'facts' the Judge is referring to in his order.

15:32 (about where JA starts) http://www.wftv.com/video/21931707/index.html

MOO

Thanks, eaglemom. Just came upon your post. I would assume that, yes, the judge's decision was based on the "legal facts" and it is exactly that which he is referring to.

 

[21merc7]

Scott Peterson couldn't keep his mouth shut. Scott Petersons arrogance helped get him behind bars. It's obvious there is no love loss between this judge and Baez, but that may be the very thing that gets the defense an appeal.

Since this is a Death Penalty trial, appeals are automatic. (Yes, we will hear about this case and appeals for many years if she is convicted.) Just part of the U.S. Justice System. If you are asking can KC apply for "Habeas Rights/Inefficiency of Counsel", well she probably will try, the outcome of that depends on the attorneys that handle the actual murder trial, and how efficient those attorneys are. I am guessing the stars will be immaculately efficient.

 

[Themis]

"Legal facts!" :floorlaugh: Hey! Hey! Hey! We need to get squared away here. We want our WSers to be smart on these things. "Facts" are things that happened in the case. "Law" consists of the Constitutions (federal and state), statutes, ordinances, regulations (if binding), and case law (opinions of higher courts that are binding on the trial court's jurisdiction). Attorneys make offers of proof of facts (what they anticipate the witnesses would say or evidence would show) and apply the law to those facts to argue their conclusions. IRAC Issue, rules, analysis and conclusions.

 

[wantsjustice]

Scott Peterson couldn't keep his mouth shut. Scott Petersons arrogance helped get him behind bars. It's obvious there is no love loss between this judge and Baez, but that may be the very thing that gets the defense an appeal.

You stated above: "It's obvious there is no love loss between this judge and Baez, but that may be the very thing that gets the defense and appeal."

I have only seen the Judge being very patient with the Defense, even with all their motions and nonsense last year. So many unprofessional remarks made by the defense last year in his court room.

I see nothing that would even lead me to think of a reason to approve an appeal down the road because of this Judge..


Did I miss something?

TIA

 

[RR0004]

I think JB originally went into this case believing every word KC said. It looks as if he might have taken off his rose colored glasses and realizes the mountain of evidence he is up against.

Well...maybe he did...for like a minute (or two)...but I think when the story hit the news and he saw the media's reaction...he only had $$ in his eyes. I'd love to believe he was motivated by serving his client's best interests, but soon after taking this case he, IMO, was motivated by the almighty dollar and his "star" power.

 

[21merc7]

(So, what kind of fragrance should I buy for a stocking stuffer for men? Ideas? [Boy! Is that off topic! But, in my defense, timely.])

Since I am allergic to all fragrance, why not just go spray and sniff. Pick one you think you can smell frequently. I am sure the most popular are on the shelf. Or choose one with a catchy name, then smell it first. (Having an allergy attack just thinking about it!)

I think there are 45 years worth of Old Spice at my parents house in a drawer. Lol!

Sorry OT, just had to respond.

 

[cyberborg]

speaking of which...how much will it hurt her not to take the stand in her own defense considering she is the mother of the victim? as a juror, although I know I would be instructed that her not taking the stand should not be interpreted as a sign of guilt....as a mother myself in that situation the last thought on my mind would be to save my own skin and my only thought would be to help find the real killer! and saying everything I know, regardless of how incriminating it may be would be most important. She should have an extreme sense of urgency, like most family members of victims, on finding the real killer. Neither KC nor her parents have this. Why? KC is the killer

My favorite topic. :dance: Catch-22. KC is damned if she does or doesn't!!

If KC is the innocent Mother then why not take the stand and describe the events of how/why Caylee left her supervision? It is the most important testimony IMHO.

If KC does then she will get grilled by SA and her lies.

If KC doesn't then despite direction it will go against her badly.

Beautiful, simply beautiful! Trapped by her own lies and actions.

 

[legalmania]

Since this is a Death Penalty trial, appeals are automatic. Just part of the U.S. Justice System. (Most appeals are denied by the way.) If you are asking can KC apply for "Habeas Rights/Inefficiency of Counsel", well she probably will try, the outcome of that depends on the attorneys that handle the actual murder trial.

I am familiar with the right to an appeal but you just don't win, they have to have legal causation. I don't know what defense Casey would use but it seems to me the judge keeps talking about evidence and as far as I remember there hasn't been a evidentiary hearing yet.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...TM&Title=->2009->Ch0090->Section 104#0090.104

 

[21merc7]

She gets her crazy eyes and the smug smirk from her as well. All this picture is missing is the creepy wink.

We need side by sides for these! CA = CA.