long weekend break: discuss the latest here #101

[LaneGirl]

deliberate.

We seem to be seeing more subtle acting out incidents with her.

Do we know what was being said when she did this?

 

[leebee52]

Didn't we also see CA throwing "the finger" in court as well?

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Why did Jodi sit on the manila folder in court? I just saw that?

warming it up?

 

[DairyGirl]

By his own admission, he came gift in hand at their first meeting-- with this infamous book! He already quasi assessed her and cleared her of any guilt before even TALKING with her.

At least he could've gone through the motions and pretended he conducted an interview and came to some Defense-friendly conclusion!
But did he?
No.
He somehow was precognitive and came knowing... she lacked confidence even before interviewing her! How'd he know that?

Therefore, it appears to anyone whose paying attention that he already decided she was not guilty of this (premeditated) crime and had a diagnosis way before he even said hello!

This book is going to end up biting him when Juan gets through with him.

The good doctor may not be smart but he's no fool. He knows damn well that Jodi is a sociopathic liar who killed this man in cold blood. And if you paid him enough money he would admit it.

 

[ClosArgs]

I answered pretending I was JA and scored 4. She has no memories so they can't be terrorizing her. Anyway I loved the disclaimer-
Next Steps: If you are suffering from post traumatic stress, it will get worse - not better - without some professional help. If you think this could be related to some medical issue, schedule an appointment with your physician. If you think your problem is related to some non-medical issue schedule an appointment with one of our mental health professionals. In either case, take some action to help yourself to feel better and to be more in control of your life.

For all the reasons I bolded above, Dr. Samuals failed.:banghead:

http://www.reshealth.org/rhcservices/behavioral/ptsd.cfm?confirm=yes

All of his answers regarding her deception having no effect on this test result are without merit. Are you seriously telling me if you are asked on a psych eval whether you have difficulty sleeping or other such symptoms you wouldn't know as a defendant to rank these questions high in your responses. She's sloppy but she's not stupid. This woman had 1-2 yrs in prison to research this psych stuff before doc S arrived on the scene. (In non-incarcerated years the equivalent would probably be 4 yrs).

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Do we know what was being said when she did this?

yes they were talking about fight or flight.. he may have said can't she be a murdered or kill someone and still do it.. something...

 

[paperwing]

Soma is a muscle relaxer.

Yeah, that's all I know for now. What a mess. Thank you!

Now I need to figure out how to sign up for the ring kissing list...

 

[BritsKate]

If she thought one shot would do it, why did she bring the knife?

There are some of us...okay, it might just be me that believes Jodi is a sadistic psychopath.

As such I personally believe the knife was always her primary weapon. Knife wounds are extremely painful, there is some perverse psychology in stabbing a lover you deem has wronged you in the heart, and like many psychopaths before her, they are attracted to the power and dominance weapons symbolize - all weapons. (Recently read an account of a psychopath with a samurai sword collection. That's gotta be safe. )

I think she brought the gun as backup in case Travis was able to get the knife from her - or something else went awry. I also believe she thought it would be so simple as a single stab wound and when he didn't die immediately - and had the gall to actually try to defend himself - it set loose a narcissistic rage which afforded her the opportunity to brutally and heinously overkill her victim.

 

[katiedid2]

Lol y'all are funny
This is my 1,227 post wohoo

 

[Cracka*Jaxx]

I took the PTSD test but didn't read the questions. Just did Y and N whenever I felt like it. My score was 5 and said I may have issues and call.

So basically ANY answer you provide leads them to say you have PTSD or may.

****:goodpost:

 

[MsCharlieChan]

I am blown away that, Jodi starts (fake!) CRYING when asking the interrogation detective if she can "clean up" before she takes her mug shot. Shock & Awe!!!

Please, somebody help me understand WHY she decides to CRY at this moment. She has been acting completely la-di-dah-dee prior to asking to "clean up" -- which I imagine means she wants to get to a mirror to fix her hair and touch-up her makeup.

Is she crying because tears typically help her get her way? Or is there some other twisted reason?

Just astonishing. She's easy-breezy about being arrested for a brutal murder and only sheds tears for herself -- the possibility of having to take a photo without fresh makeup?!!

 

[crimesnooper]

I'd missed your post. Some of what he says does make sense and is true for people suffering with PTSD - and suffering is what they're really doing - it IS hell.

What he's done simply goes way beyond bias altogether though. He came up with a theory, gave her tests that disputed his theory, accepted her lies to support his theory without acknowledging that lying alone could be indicative of another disorder altogether, admitted he did diagnose a personality disorder without any follow up as to that what that disorder even is, conducted his tests in a wholly inappropriate manner so much so that he doesn't know if he himself answered questions on said test, and in my honest opinion blurred boundaries so much that he was either unaware of her deception and manipulation or he served to gain a greater good in his mind by incorporating it into an already faulty diagnosis.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and admit I've pretty voraciously studied forensic psychology because of my ex's diagnoses. I'm not a mental health professional myself but from everything I've learned and read it is quite standard for a psychologist to test a defendant repeatedly; many don't go into an evaluation, prior to any assessment, with a preconceived diagnosis; and the majority would conduct further assessment based on the initial findings.

So let me throw back this hypothetical...let's say Jodi is acquitted and the jury talks to the media. They tell reporters they were absolutely swayed by the defense expert's testimony. Is it fair, is it really justice, that an expert has the power to release an alleged murderer when they've committed so many 'sins' of their own profession? Because really that is what we're dealing with here. And that's not what makes him a dufus but rather downright dangerous.

(As for Juan...I'm gonna leave the Napoleon Complex theory alone - except to say when one is dealing with a disordered personality they do have to be dealt with much differently than someone willing to honestly answer questions presented to them. MOO)

You raise some good points. I assume that the disordered personality is Jodi and not the Doc.? But I think this is where JM was foolish. He is NEVER going to illicit the truth from JA. A sociopath and I beleive she is one, is never, never going to have that moment where she breaks down and tells what happened. ANd he looked out of control to me when he had so much "passion". I feel it would have been less grating and more effective had he been less passionate and more methodical. He came off to me almost juvenile in his approach.IMO

 

[scorpio24]

Like all websleuthers, I've grown weary of the interminable "objection, approach" dance in this trial. Earlier today, (don't ask me why) I was reading some of the testimony from the Charles Manson trial. I ran across this refreshing dialog between the Judge, Manson's attorney (Kanarek), and Atkins' Attorney (Shinn).



(Objection. Attorneys approach bench.)

JUDGE OLDER: Mr. Kanarek, you have directly violated my order not to interrupt repeatedly. You did it again. I find you in contempt of court and I sentence you to one night in the County Jail starting immediately after this court adjourns this afternoon until 7:00 A.M. tomorrow morning. The order will further provide that you are to be given free access to confer with your client Mr. Manson, during the time you are in custody. Proceed.

KANAREK: Your Honor, if I may, I will ask your Honor to read the record. I tried to object before.

JUDGE OLDER: I don't have to read the record, sir. I was present. You have repeatedly, in spite of my warnings to you, interrupted. You just did it again in a flagrant disregard of the order.

KANAREK: Your Honor, that is not so. I beg the court to realize, If you will read the record, she answers so fast that I ask that you...

JUDGE OLDER: You have been doing it continually, and you did it again after repeated warnings.

SHINN: Your Honor, may I be heard, your Honor?

JUDGE OLDER: On what subject?

SHINN: On this same subject. I was present.

JUDGE OLDER: You are not involved in this.

SHINN: On this same subject. I was present.

JUDGE OLDER: You are not involved in this.

SHINN: But I want to make my observations, you Honor.

JUDGE OLDER: I am not interested in your observations.



Just dreaming......

It's amazing that you posted this! I was just thinking of this case this afternoon, as I read posts about how JA would not have done it with a knife if she had the gun. Images of Susan Atkins and the rest of those crazed knife-wielding Manson girls flashed in my head. Murder is not always logical. It's senseless, cruel and its effects linger. Justice for Travis! :twocents:

 

[TotallyObsessed]

To give you all an idea about what I call "born litigators".

I work for a firm with over 250 attorneys. I'm a para professional so I've seen my fair share of litigation. We are consistently ranked every year in the top 10 firms in the COUNTRY for our specialty area (most of which we rank in the top 5 of that list). Out of 250 attorneys we have 3 attorneys (who I consider "born litigators"), but one main standout. The other attorneys in our firm attend Court to just WATCH that one standout attorney. He commands attention in a Courtroom. And that's how I see Juan. He COMMANDS attention. And it's RARE to see attorneys go without anything at all to jog memories or keep on track. Many times attorneys need witness outlines to do their questioning. Juan doesn't. He has an amazing command of this case.

I'm in total awe of his ability.

I am way behind here, but JSR I agree with you 100%. I started out in the criminal arena - DA's office and moved to private practice CIVIL litigation. However, a good lawyer is a good lawyer. Wherever they may be. I worked for a top notch attorney who is now with a premier law firm. While not the greatest in the courtroom (he is so techy it loses most people) his attention to detail, ability to stay the course and above all honesty and integrity have made him more wealthy than could be imagined. His partner at one time was a born litigator - he was amazing in trial. When he summed up his case and "handed" it to the jurors THERE WERE ACTUALLY JURORS WHO HELD THEIR HANDS OUT as if taking something.

If you know what you are looking at, a great lawyer is something to behold. And JM is top notch.

On the other hand, I've seen my share of Nurmis as well. :facepalm:

 

[StephanieHartPI]

No accident, the F-word flows right out of her easily, even in how she writes.
She was not spiritual and no delicate flower... She was a road trip driving "been around the block" type that wants people to think she is so feminine.

she is weird, unstable, gives the finger, tells her friends they F'd up..

I don't buy any of her quiet posturing. Fake.

She is a crazed killer, very dangerous, no conscience. Especially when she can plan a murder, stage a burglary, descend on a man from 1200 miles away and slaughter him.

 

[Face the music]

PTSD self test. don't tell me we can't fake this to make us all seem like we are suffering. Everyone take the test! And these are samples of the type of questions. Just look at them, I can tell what it wants me to say, and if I say it I'm stressed

http://www.reshealth.org/rhcservices/behavioral/ptsd.cfm

Are you keeping track of how many of us seem to have PTSD based on the test that you posted?

Your Score = 6

You are likely suffering from post traumatic stress; please contact us for more information

 

[AZlawyer]

The one and only question I wish a juror asked, or JM for that matter is.

Why is it that there is not one, witness that saw any negative or abusive behavior from TA? Not one witness to collaborate any accusations from this lying witness JA.

To AZLAWYER: while I have you here, I have a ?

What is the punishment for a defendant - that is busted slipping notes while a flipping trial is on? Can't they cuff her to the chair and give the reason why?

For some reason I remember that happening on a previous trial. Tank Ya

The judge would have a lot of discretion to decide how to handle it. IMO she decided that the DT would have to keep a better eye on her. Next time she might decide something else. Cuffing to the chair would be a pretty serious choice, given the potential for making the jury think she flipped out and stabbed someone lol. Maybe the judge would try something like having a little separate table for her with no papers or pens on it.

In any event, the jury certainly wouldn't be told that she was passing notes.

 

[AZlawyer]

Just heard DD describe dissociation. Now I know what I had in the months following my son's death. It is the strangest feeling you are completely and totally disconnected to your environment and feel as though you are on the outside looking in. Has anyone else here experienced this.

Yes. I know what you mean. Like you are living someone else's life.

 

[leebee52]

The judge would have a lot of discretion to decide how to handle it. IMO she decided that the DT would have to keep a better eye on her. Next time she might decide something else. Cuffing to the chair would be a pretty serious choice, given the potential for making the jury think she flipped out and stabbed someone lol. Maybe the judge would try something like having a little separate table for her with no papers or pens on it.

In any event, the jury certainly wouldn't be told that she was passing notes.

Finger Locks. They do exist.

 

[anagrammy]

Hope no one minds, just wanted some insight on this, moved over from end of last thread. I haven't been able to watch all of the trial. I have a question that maybe some of you can help me with. I am pretty much the same height and weight as TA but 20 years older. I can think of no way a 115 pound female could stab me 29 times unless I was physically restrained. After the first stab, I would be in fight for survival mode. I might not survive, but she would surely be at least seriously injured if not killed. You might get stabbed once if it was from behind. The second stab would be a glancing blow as you turned towards your attacker. There wouldn't be a 3rd stab wound except maybe a defensive wound to the hands or forearms. I would think any 200 pound man could incapacitate any 115 pound woman with a single blow. From that point it would go very badly for the smaller incapacitated attacker. I believe the gunshot was forensically proven to have occurred after the stabbings. But even at that a .25 pistol is not immediately debilitating under most circumstances. It makes me wonder if that's why JA removed the ropes from the scene. Were they used in the commission of the crime? Was TA tied up either as sex play or at gunpoint before the knife attack occurred?

Some of us feel that the sex scenes were faked and TA was actually being tortured in the bedroom. Someone suggested that the photos of him nude on the bed with an anguished expression on his face were not the countenance of a person interested in voluntarily posing for a fun sex play photo, rather a man under duress. Here are some of the points in favor of this theory:

*There is duct tape on his arm. It is not a Body Bug as some suggested (an exercise aid) because strands of duct tape was identified at the crime scene. Tying a person up via the upper arms was done on another murder I saw on Mystery Detectives--the older guy who went into the desert with a young Wiccan woman and didn't live another day. This method of tieup is also used in SM because it leaves the hands free while impeding aggressive movement.

*The angle of the photos is deliberate because it is bad photography. Both shots do not show his left arm, which could be tied to a foot of the bed.

*JA referred to a rope loop as a "noose"--a very odd choice of words.

*TA appears to be giving a hand gesture in one photo but a WS poster pointed out that he is tossing the KY tube that JA planted, almost in a defiant gesture. The KY tube and his hand are both blurred.

*TA is not the least aroused. It may be a post coital photo since his genital area is reddened, or he could have been sexually assaulted.

*TA's foot shows two rope burns. Either he was tied up in the bedroom or he was dragged by the foot.

I've saved the best evidence for last. The crime scene experts indicated the blood in the bedroom varied in age. There was "old" blood and fresher blood.

In my mind, I think she used the unusual tie-up to sit on him and inflict minor stab wounds because by then, he had refused to be blackmailed (by the photos) and by her threats to tell the bishop he was a pedophile. The evidence of blunt force trauma on his lower limbs has never been explained. I believe she inflicted wounds to him in the bedroom before the shower.

Another theory that explains Travis' weakened condition is that she may have stabbed him in the heart first and he may not have realized the severity of the injury. Many people do not realize they are dying because they feel ok at first. They think they survived because they don't see too much blood. Medical testimony indicates that it would have taken three or four minutes to weaken.

Evidence towards this scenario would be the unnatural position of his hands on his chest on one of the shower photos, the strange poses, the appearance of desperation/pain and general sadness. His basic defiance towards her intimidation might make him not want to show her his pain. WHen he saw the gun, he knew he had to act.

I am sure I have left some things out, but these are some of the ideas that have been floated here.