Loved to Death

[BBB167893]

MurriFlower is right.

PLEASE!

BTW, do you suppose JBR was a sensitive subject to her mom and dad?

They seem to be selectively sensitive.

Oh, I almost forgot. We are not allowed to consider their feelings. For whatever they felt, whoever they were, whatever they were, we can oppose them on any number of fronts. If we say they blocked out the reality of what they just did, that works. If they were sick demented people, that fits some theories. Whatever they were, they were not flesh and blood, regular people who suffered an unspeakable tragedy. That option is off the table. Yet, even then, someone will reject that view, proclaiming they were too people, just not "regular."

They cannot win. That was determined a long time ago. Their fate was sealed. They were rich, wealthy people who used their daughter in a perverse fashion, bordering on *advertiser censored*, to satisfy some selfish demand of some ancestor. And baby that sold papers. That story was a money-making wrecking machine. Everyone went along for the ride. And in the politics of Boulder, this family barely survived a twentieth century electronic lynch mob of class warfare and social prejudice.

Are those violins I hear?

I don't care. How can you keep missing the point that this has nothing at all to do with you?

Could have fooled me on BOTH counts, since you keep MAKING it about me!

Let's discuss P's UMI and her forcing J into *advertiser censored* related schemes. Who are you kidding? Let's discuss her forming the garrote and looping it around her daughter's neck. Let's discuss the force necessary to create the scarring on her tiny little neck. Let's discuss the hair ripped from her head as P twisted that sucker more and more and choked the life out of six year old Joni Ramsey. How about that?

How about it? I've been WAITING to turn the conversation beck to something that actually matters.

Don't answer, as far as I'm concerned. These are rhetorical questions aimed at exposing your disgraceful hypocrisy.

My disgraceful hypocrisy? That's rich.

Anyway, I know what your "answers" will be. B.S. Pure B.S.

Isn't that odd? I was going to say the same thing!

Spare me

Took the words out of my mouth again!

 

[WHITEFANG]

BTW, do you suppose JBR was a sensitive subject to her mom and dad?

They seem to be selectively sensitive. SD

"they seem to be." you don't know for sure, though, do you? nevertheless, you have carte blanche to assert things like P wanted a beautiful corpse for her personal vain glory and advancement and was therefore careful not to destroy JonBenet's appearance beyond what a funeral director could fix.

DISSD, too.

Your pain. How have you managed all these years with such horrible, constant pain?

I know that of which I speak. I was a firm RDI before I saw the light. So, don't you argue with me and question me. I was the RDI of RDIs, the Saul of RDI, until I was liberated by that great light and yielded to TRUTH, IDI.

 

[WHITEFANG]

PLEASE!

They seem to be selectively sensitive.

Are those violins I hear?

Your Pain!!!

Could have fooled me on BOTH counts, since you keep MAKING it about me!

Oh, I see. You say "You know nothing about me." I say, "Good." And you say I won't stop making this about you. Perfect. That is the kind of rationale that put the R's forever in your sights.

How about it? I've been WAITING to turn the conversation beck to something that actually matters.

Oh the PAIN! Please.

My disgraceful hypocrisy? That's rich.

Tell us more about Marilyn and your pain.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Couldn't we say the same thing about this "intruder(s)"?

Don't the IDIs change the intruder's motive, number, and methodology constantly to fit the facts?

Whose daughter was JonBenet?

 

[BBB167893]

"they seem to be." you don't know for sure, though, do you?

To a point, you're right. All I have to go on is what I've seen and heard from them.

nevertheless, you have carte blanche to assert things like P wanted a beautiful corpse for her personal vain glory and advancement and was therefore careful not to destroy JonBenet's appearance beyond what a funeral director could fix.

We might get a little further if you'd tell me in specific terms what your problem is with that.

DISSD, too.

I'm still not following you.

How have you managed all these years with such horrible, constant pain?

You make do. You have no choice. And that's ALL I mean to say on the subject.

I know that of which I speak. I was a firm RDI before I saw the light. So, don't you argue with me and question me. I was the RDI of RDIs, the Saul of RDI, until I was liberated by that great light and yielded to TRUTH, IDI.

Would you like a medal?

Oh, I see.

No, you don't. And that's exactly the problem.

You say "You know nothing about me." I say, "Good."

Finally, something we can agree on.

And you say I won't stop making this about you. Perfect.

Read the scorecard, Fang. It speaks for itself.

Tell us more about Marilyn.

Not that it will do any good, but I've been meaning to do just that. Anyone who reads the opening post of this thread and truly understands it will know what I'm trying to do in using Marilyn as a comparison.

 

[WHITEFANG]

nevertheless, you have carte blanche to assert things like P wanted a beautiful corpse for her personal vain glory and advancement and was therefore careful not to destroy JonBenet's appearance beyond what a funeral director could fix.

We might get a little further if you'd tell me in specific terms what your problem is with that.

"Specifically, specifically? How about generally? Generally speaking my problem..."

That my friend is the problem. If you cannot understand what my problem, specifically or generally or any other way, is with "that," there is no hope for you.

I know that of which I speak. I was a firm RDI before I saw the light. So, don't you argue with me and question me. I was the RDI of RDIs, the Saul of RDI, until I was liberated by that great light and yielded to TRUTH, IDI.

Would you like a medal?

You keep it.

 

[BBB167893]

"Specifically, specifically? How about generally? Generally speaking my problem..."

That my friend is the problem. If you cannot understand what my problem, specifically or generally or any other way, is with "that," there is no hope for you.

Your problem seems to be that I've at least come up with SOMETHING that actually explains why someone would do all of this the way it was done. Heck, maybe it is just a shot in the dark. But it's in good faith.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Your problem seems to be that I've at least come up with SOMETHING that actually explains why someone would do all of this the way it was done. Heck, maybe it is just a shot in the dark. But it's in good faith.

I would love it if you or anyone else came up with something that was a credible explanation for this horror. The fact that you don't accept this is what I believe, keeps you defending a position that is ludicrous. You know it is, too.

 

[MurriFlower]

I would love it if you or anyone else came up with something that was a credible explanation for this horror. The fact that you don't accept this is what I believe, keeps you defending a position that is ludicrous. You know it is, too.

Come on WF. Stop worrying about 'ludicrous" theories and their proponents. Arguing with RDI will just give you a PITA.

Put your efforts to good use. Help me to find who did this.

.

 

[BBB167893]

I would love it if you or anyone else came up with something that was a credible explanation for this horror.

Don't hate me for trying to make a go of it.

The fact that you don't accept this is what I believe, keeps you defending a position that is ludicrous. You know it is, too.

Oh, I accept that you believe it.

 

[BBB167893]

Stop worrying about 'ludicrous" theories and their proponents. Arguing with RDI will just give you a PITA.

Don't think so hard.

 

[WHITEFANG]

"nevertheless, you have carte blanche to assert things like P wanted a beautiful corpse for her personal vain glory and advancement and was therefore careful not to destroy JonBenet's appearance beyond what a funeral director could fix."

We might get a little further if you'd tell me in specific terms what your problem is with that.

Because that compulsion, so strong and pervasive, kept her from reaching for the flashlight in the first place.

 

[BBB167893]

Because that compulsion, so strong and pervasive, kept her from reaching for the flashlight in the first place.

Now that's something I can get my head around. Well done, my friend.

About that, I can only say that, 1) it helps to remember that, when she allegedly went for the flashlight, she most likely was not thinking. We've all seen what that's like.

2) IF the flashlight was used at all. That's a whole other pot of coffee.

 

[claudicici]

I agree with these ideas. Up until recently, I felt a lot of compassion for Patsy Ramsey. I thought she murdered JonBenet, but I thought a combination of her cancer & stress made her go into a rage. I thought that not having her daughter was probably hell on earth. But as I got older, my feelings toward her changed. When I read their Christmas message, it dawned on me that they were trying to minimize JonBenet's death. Nevermind that innocent parents wouldn't have written that garbage, grieving parents wouldn't have written it either-so I came to the conclusion that they were not grieving parents. Patsy was nothing more than the ultimate stage mother. I really believe that she could not seperate herself from her daughter. JonBenet's attention, applause, & accolades were for her. When JonBenet won, Patsy won. When JonBenet lost, Patsy lost. Patsy had cancer & knew it was going to kill her, so in her mind, it was killing JonBenet-or should have been. I really think she thought like that & would not have wanted JonBenet to go on living, if she couldn't-because she was jealous. She wouldn't want young, pretty, show-business bound, JonBenet to reap the benefits of HER hard work, without her. (AND still be with her daddy). Does that make sense? I don't think the murder was premeditated, but I do believe that she had given it some previous thought, & knew that she could deal with it. & no matter how they down-played their participation, their beauty pagent involvement was NOT normal. That was one sick & twisted family.

I don't post much on this thread,but I think about JonBenet often.I think this thread is incredibly relevant and Dodie makes some excellent points
After all these years I'm still sort of on the fence...even though I go back and forth with the McReynold family and also Burke ,Patsy remains the #1 suspect in my mind...I go back and forth with feeling compassion for Patsy but this thread makes so much sense.One thing however I can't agree on with most posters is that Patsy wrote the RN before JB died....I just can't see her do that...however I can imagine that it all started with the RN....Patsy was stressed and very angry....angry at JB starting to rebel against the whole pageant thing ,angry at JB because she did not identify with the pageant doll,angry because she did not want to wear what Patsy wanted her to wear.....I also think patsy found out about sexual abuse and I believe Patsy knew who the abuser was (Burke,John,Santa?)I do believe Patsy thought she was dying and JB would not become immortal for her (since they were one) as she hoped for...I believe she started to write the RN as a fantasy,thinking about how much glory and fame and sympathy she would get if Jb was kidnapped...meanwhile JB would not sleep,she already fed her the midnight pineapple snack and finally in the middle of writing the fantasy note JB had soiled herself,I believe that's when Patsy could have struck her with the flashlight,bashed her against the tile,the headboard,whatever it was....she was in a rage....afterwards she did what she had to do to create a convincing,dramatic crimescene.......

 

[BBB167893]

I don't post much on this thread,but I think about JonBenet often.I think this thread is incredibly relevant and Dodie makes some excellent points
After all these years I'm still sort of on the fence...even though I go back and forth with the McReynold family and also Burke ,Patsy remains the #1 suspect in my mind...I go back and forth with feeling compassion for Patsy but this thread makes so much sense.One thing however I can't agree on with most posters is that Patsy wrote the RN before JB died....I just can't see her do that...however I can imagine that it all started with the RN....Patsy was stressed and very angry....angry at JB starting to rebel against the whole pageant thing ,angry at JB because she did not identify with the pageant doll,angry because she did not want to wear what Patsy wanted her to wear.....I also think patsy found out about sexual abuse and I believe Patsy knew who the abuser was (Burke,John,Santa?)I do believe Patsy thought she was dying and JB would not become immortal for her (since they were one) as she hoped for...I believe she started to write the RN as a fantasy,thinking about how much glory and fame and sympathy she would get if Jb was kidnapped...meanwhile JB would not sleep,she already fed her the midnight pineapple snack and finally in the middle of writing the fantasy note JB had soiled herself,I believe that's when Patsy could have struck her with the flashlight,bashed her against the tile,the headboard,whatever it was....she was in a rage....afterwards she did what she had to do to create a convincing,dramatic crimescene.......

claudicici, I was just about to put this thread out of its misery because I thought nobody gave a tinker's damn. Maybe there's some life left in it.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't post much on this thread,but I think about JonBenet often.I think this thread is incredibly relevant and Dodie makes some excellent points
After all these years I'm still sort of on the fence...even though I go back and forth with the McReynold family and also Burke ,Patsy remains the #1 suspect in my mind...I go back and forth with feeling compassion for Patsy but this thread makes so much sense.One thing however I can't agree on with most posters is that Patsy wrote the RN before JB died....I just can't see her do that...however I can imagine that it all started with the RN....Patsy was stressed and very angry....angry at JB starting to rebel against the whole pageant thing ,angry at JB because she did not identify with the pageant doll,angry because she did not want to wear what Patsy wanted her to wear.....I also think patsy found out about sexual abuse and I believe Patsy knew who the abuser was (Burke,John,Santa?)I do believe Patsy thought she was dying and JB would not become immortal for her (since they were one) as she hoped for...I believe she started to write the RN as a fantasy,thinking about how much glory and fame and sympathy she would get if Jb was kidnapped...meanwhile JB would not sleep,she already fed her the midnight pineapple snack and finally in the middle of writing the fantasy note JB had soiled herself,I believe that's when Patsy could have struck her with the flashlight,bashed her against the tile,the headboard,whatever it was....she was in a rage....afterwards she did what she had to do to create a convincing,dramatic crimescene.......

I speak only for myself, but I don't think many people feel Patsy wrote the note BEFORE JB was killed. Nor do I believe she fantasized about how wonderful it would be to be the mother of a dead JB.
She wrote the note in an agitated state as a way to cover up what was a horrible event, an unintentional death. To blame kidnappers and then leave the body behind seems exactly like something that would be done in that situation because a parent, and I include THESE parents, would never take their dead child outside and dump or hide her.

 

[claudicici]

...that's where this theory differs from most of you...from what I know of Patsy I do believe she wrote the RN but I can't see her doing it after JB died....IF and only IF Patsy is guilty I believe it was pre meditated and not an unintentional accidental death...I agree she wanted there to be a body,I think that was the key point that she wanted a beautiful,tragic dead child more than a rebellious, difficult live child....especially since I believe she thought she would die soon herself JMO

 

[BBB167893]

...that's where this theory differs from most of you...from what I know of Patsy I do believe she wrote the RN but I can't see her doing it after JB died....IF and only IF Patsy is guilty I believe it was pre meditated and not an unintentional accidental death...I agree she wanted there to be a body,I think that was the key point that she wanted a beautiful,tragic dead child more than a rebellious, difficult live child....especially since I believe she thought she would die soon herself JMO

Let's take this one step at a time.

While I don't go for the idea of premeditated murder, you make a good argument. But the part about PR thinking she was not long for this world...that puts a whole new light on all of this. That would just give her more reason to do anything she could to buy time.

 

[cosmo44]

how is everyone missing that the brother did it and the parents covered?
not that complex. the older brother was sick of the whole thing and snapped that night to a level unreached previously. he was always taking a back seat to JB. it is all right there and everything was done to protect him for the long run.
biological parents tend not to kill their own children even if they are in a rage.
we all want evidence, but if the investigation was influenced at all by the R's (which it was) then the outcome is political. wouldn't matter what the "evidence" is/was ... like a rigged NBA game or election.
think about if your older son "accidentally" based his younger sister / your daughter to death or strangled her in a childish rage that went too far with any parental / adult supervision. what would you do for your family? i am not saying it is right, but i understand the situation. you will never find "the killer" and justice is already being served. he has to live the rest of his life with these memories and without his mother and his sister.

 

[claudicici]

...if it was BR I do believe PR would have cleaned and redressed JB and wrapped her in the blanket....however I don't believe her or JR would have wrote the long ransom note....in the BR did it case I think he would have wrote it as part of a game that went terribly wrong....I wonder what his writing skills were...he was still so young...